New Sonic Forces Gameplay teased on twitch.tv (link and screenhots here)

[Zippo]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

I don't think it's been said outright. The PS4 Pro footage is definitely 60fps, and the Switch version is likely to be capped at 30fps. That's all I'm certain about right now. 

 

2 hours ago, Bobnik said:

Looks like it runs 60 frames on PS4 at least in gameplay videos. Haven't really seen Xbox version on the interwebs tho.

Great. Here's hoping the non pro PS4 and non X Xbox run it just as well. If not, I'll just get the PC version to compliment my Switch version. 

[Dr. Detective]

7 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I've followed this line of thought for a while... particularly with Unleashed and the decision to build a Werehog out of nowhere in lieu of using punch'em the Echidna for brawler based gameplay.

But to be perfectly honest, the second you substitute the Avatar for Tails or Knuckles is the very second the masses would rage that their gameplay isn't more reminiscent of Sonic's. It doesn't fit that "Sonic but a little different" magic mold that the series strays further and further away from. Delivering on this gadget based gameplay almost needed a new character, just to give us the perception that its not supposed to be a new spin on Sonic's playstyle, but a third playstyle all together. That new character just also happens to be CaC is all.

Even if the gameplay fits from Tails perspective; its simply doesn't fit the franchise mold of what Tails should be doing as a playable character (Sonic + Flight).

I.... understand.... tolerate.... eh..... I see what Iizuka was thinking with this one. Using Tails or Knux here would probably be a mistake and we'd all lambast him for shoe-horning in a popular character instead of giving us what we want (lol). We'd be screaming about a 10 year step back to the Genre Roulette.

 

That being said, I'm up for DLC skins of established characters. Thats just harmless fun.

I wasn't talking about literally giving the Avatar's gameplay to Tails and Knuckles though. I was talking about Iizuka's talk of how he wanted the Avatar character to play "like" Sonic but not be his carbon copy. The obvious solution there is to do something like that with the other characters instead. Like Mania.

 

[Sega DogTagz]

5 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I wasn't talking about literally giving the Avatar's gameplay to Tails and Knuckles though. I was talking about Iizuka's talk of how he wanted the Avatar character to play "like" Sonic but not be his carbon copy. The obvious solution there is to do something like that with the other characters instead. Like Mania.

 

It sounds obvious, but when your dealing with Modern Sonic it isn't.

Mania has the easy solution. Making Tails and Knux playable there under the historical formula is an easy deal. Its been done before and can be replicated. That same can't be said for modern. The current style that stands up to scrutiny is the boost formula. And as we all know, thats unsustainable just with Sonic. Throwing another character as a derivative of that gameplay is only going to make that issue worse. Until Sonic Team finds a more streamlined way to build levels that stand up to that kind of speed from a stage length perspective (like they attempted to do with Lost World's tube-in-the-sky design) then asking them to do what Mania does is a non-starter. They literally cant.

 

Its a time and distance issue. Sonic Team bleeds itself dry laying enough track for Sonic to blaze through, Adding in Tails or Knux in a similar-but-different mentality just piles on the already overwhelming workload.

[Dr. Detective]

4 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

It sounds obvious, but when your dealing with Modern Sonic it isn't.

Mania has the easy solution. Making Tails and Knux playable there under the historical formula is an easy deal. Its been done before and can be replicated. That same can't be said for modern. The current style that stands up to scrutiny is the boost formula. And as we all know, thats unsustainable just with Sonic. Throwing another character as a derivative of that gameplay is only going to make that issue worse. Until Sonic Team finds a more streamlined way to build levels that stand up to that kind of speed from a stage length perspective (like they attempted to do with Lost World's tube-in-the-sky design) then asking them to do what Mania does is a non-starter. They literally cant.

 

Its a time and distance issue. Sonic Team bleeds itself dry laying enough track for Sonic to blaze through, Adding in Tails or Knux in a similar-but-different mentality just piles on the already overwhelming workload.

Not as much of an overwhelming workload as it would to create an entirely new werehog system of gameplay. Or to create an entirely new avatar character creation simulator, that manages to do exactly what Iizuka proposed with it's gameplay seemingly well enough on its own. It has it's own advantages as well as limitations. It plays similarly yet differently. It's not even as though they really need to do too much from the get go.

I apologize, but I don't buy that it's something they literally can't do. Or so much as attempt. When I look at all the crazy shit the wisps can do and how this avatar functions, putting in a Tails skin and giving him an ability as basic as "You press a button and the little fucker starts to float" isn't going to lead to that being something I'll pass off as an acceptable answer as a consumer. I know there's more to it then just that (like level design and character animations) but it's all pretty basic stuff that they're already doing in this game with three different playstyles.

I'm done making excuses for these people. 

 

[Zippo]

Really, really relived to hear that Modern Sonic's control has been improved. The super floaty jump and the stiffness always bothered me, and I'm happy to hear he won't lose all momentum using the air dash now, the boost is also less plentiful now because it can only be obtained from Wisps, which is also a huge plus, I was never a fan of how much you could spam it. I love that the double jump is back too. 

[StaticMania]

He doesn't have the air dash, it's been replaced with the double jump...

[Zippo]

I heard otherwise, guess I'll take a second look. 

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I'm done making excuses for these people.

If only those few remaining willing to do so would be this way.

The past ten years or so have been full of white nights and such. Hopefully now that they've pretty much lost the majority of folks willing to make excuses for them and realize the free passes are all used up the team will straighten up and fly right since they won't have any apologists shielding them from consumer frustrations.

Without folks willing to leap up and shout back at criticism, that criticism can finally get through and reach their ears, hopefully.

[Dannymax440]

They have listened to criticism, just not in the way some fans want them to.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

What if, and this may sound crazy, if the original characters had lines, you could choose which voice actor to use on them ingame? Nah, that would require each voice actor to say a lot of lines.

[Shadowlax]

34 minutes ago, Acoolsonicfan said:

What if, and this may sound crazy, if the original characters had lines, you could choose which voice actor to use on them ingame? Nah, that would require each voice actor to say a lot of lines.

I mean its possible. 

VO of such a nature is expensive, and with the recent strikes , getting more expensive. So yeah. But its cool, saints row has always been fun in that way, well except saints row 1

[The Deleter]

I've been watching footage, and I've noticed that Sonic accelerates pretty fast, and then caps his speed much faster than before. The boost is at a set speed, as well, and even Generations had some speedup to it.

There might not be a run button, but the gameplay feels like a faster Lost World than Colors because of this tbh. Whether that's a good or bad thing, (considering platforming is easier to manage with a set speed) we'll see, though.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

So hey, what if like, Sonic forces is trying to do the same thing as mania with its locations? It looks like to me that they might put in or reference some major locations in past sonic games and put in new locations such as park avenue. For example: Classic sonic might travel to empire city that eggman has taken over; the original character goes to Angel island; modern sonic goes to westopolis or something like that then a new level comes afterward. It'd make Sonics world feel more connected imo.

[Sega DogTagz]

2 hours ago, The Deleter said:

but the gameplay feels like a faster Lost World than Colors because of this tbh. Whether that's a good or bad thing, (considering platforming is easier to manage with a set speed) we'll see, though.

True, but at the same time is starting to discard some of what really help put the boost formula on the market. Generations was a slight slow-down to what Unleashed offered, and this went right over the edge of a cliff. Sonic is significantly slower in Park Ave from both a running speed and a boosting speed perspective. Combine that to the ring energy nerf and its pretty clear that the devs are trying to slow Sonic down by design.

 

If they utilize that pace better, with more solid platforming and better usage of space, then there are no worries. If not, we'll just be left with a watered down version of Unleashed and Gens as far as Modern Sonic is concerned. That would be a shame.

[Endy]

On 6/15/2017 at 10:21 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

This game definitely feels more lively than the past few ones have been so far. Maybe it's because the levels are starting to feel like actual bit parts of a story with all the banter and set-pieces. 

Putting things into perspective, I can't help but imagine what things would have been like had this game come first with Generations being the one we were reacting to afterward. I like Generations but my reaction upon seeing what it had to offer would have been far worse than anything I've dished out to Forces. 

These elements... I know these are all first stages and such and I shouldn't judge based on just this but I've missed feeling like we were going on actual adventures for so long. Like I'm going through some sort of withdrawl. And this game is giving me hope again. I'm excited to get my hands on it and see if it's true.

But that's story and characters talk. Gameplay wise, the avatar looks fine (and the lightning thing even looks a bit fun) but I still wish it weren't there. It's just too distracting watching it do stuff, knowing they have the models of the other characters in the game. 

Iizuka in that interview hit on the thing a lot of us were talking about when it came to handling characters other than Sonic but somehow he did a very strange mental leap over the obvious solution and gave it to an avatar character instead of some of the others. Him even saying this game is a sister game to Mania even makes it weirder.

I'm imagining someone sitting down with him, setting the Mania box in front of him, and pointing at Knuckles and Tails in the game and then pointing at the Avatar character's gameplay and him just staring at them, not getting the connection... 

Can it really even be considered banter? It's just Sonic's friends shouting exposition with very little actual character and the most we get of actual banter is with Tails and Eggman, which is still pretty bland.

[JosepHenry]

20 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

Can it really even be considered banter? It's just Sonic's friends shouting exposition with very little actual character and the most we get of actual banter is with Tails and Eggman, which is still pretty bland.

I disagree, what we saw of the dialogue could be compared to Star Fox, the talking really makes the characters important and present, is not "Homing shot, Sonic!" they feel like they are really helping, we just don't see them. Also seeing Sonic finally replying to Vector and Silver is kinda surreal, Sonic never speaks with anyone other than Tails in Generations.

It feels diferent from games like Generations, and even Heroes since they don't state the obvious.

Like here:

Are the characters stating the obvious doing nothing but being cheerleaders? No, they are doing their jobs explaining the mission.

[Soniman]

As long as you can turn it off, people who don't wanna listen to the chatter can be satisfied, and I think sonic Team at least have enough self awareness to have the option 

[Endy]

56 minutes ago, Joseph Mello said:

I disagree, what we saw of the dialogue could be compared to Star Fox, the talking really makes the characters important and present, is not "Homing shot, Sonic!" they feel like they are really helping, we just don't see them. Also seeing Sonic finally replying to Vector and Silver is kinda surreal, Sonic never speaks with anyone other than Tails in Generations.

 

And there's a reason people are annoyed with Star Fox as well.

[ZinogreVolt]

32 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

And there's a reason people are annoyed with Star Fox as well.

In all fairness, people should really go into Star Fox games expecting that, it's one of the things the series is known for.

Anyway, I wouldn't be worried about it though, Sonic Team's been consistent in letting us turn of mid-stage banter or hints whenever there is any.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

Can it really even be considered banter? It's just Sonic's friends shouting exposition with very little actual character and the most we get of actual banter is with Tails and Eggman, which is still pretty bland.

I can, yeah. Some banter comes with exposition. I don't have a problem with it.

Even if they actually do start to shout what they were saying later on (so far they haven't which I'm still grateful for) I've been so starved of anything resembling exposition from any of them that I'd gladly have it on loop if I could despite that.

That and it saves me from getting mad when Tails says some dumb shit like "That must be the Lost Hex. Cool!" And proceeds not to exposit what the fuck that is or why its cool.

 

 

 

[JosepHenry]

1 hour ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

And there's a reason people are annoyed with Star Fox as well.

Who? Because without the chatting between characters in stages Star Fox would be really boring to play.

Star Fox has a lot of problems, the chatting between characters is not one of them. Maybe for you is a problem but if it is the series is not for you. Is a thing that has been there since the first game.

Anyway, getting off topic.

[Patron]

Do you think that the interaction with the Offscreen Fighters might change depending on your performance in the level (e.g. they have a harder time or even need to retreat if you skip large sections of the enemies)?

[MegasonicZX]

3 hours ago, Joseph Mello said:

I disagree, what we saw of the dialogue could be compared to Star Fox, the talking really makes the characters important and present, is not "Homing shot, Sonic!" they feel like they are really helping, we just don't see them. Also seeing Sonic finally replying to Vector and Silver is kinda surreal, Sonic never speaks with anyone other than Tails in Generations.

It feels diferent from games like Generations, and even Heroes since they don't state the obvious.

Like here:

Are the characters stating the obvious doing nothing but being cheerleaders? No, they are doing their jobs explaining the mission.

A side note (and kinda late) but I really hope the games enemy placements for the custom character get better as the game goes on. The whole "line a bunch of enemies up in front of the player" thing feels like something i'd see in a fan made game like sonic world rather than this and its not like the guys can even fight back all that well to begin with so it just makes me ask what the point of having all of them there is.

[StaticMania]

Line a bunch of easily destroyable enemies in front of the players has been in Sonic for a while now...

It's a boost formula stapler...

[ZinogreVolt]

1 hour ago, MegasonicZX said:

A side note (and kinda late) but I really hope the games enemy placements for the custom character get better as the game goes on. The whole "line a bunch of enemies up in front of the player" thing feels like something i'd see in a fan made game like sonic world rather than this and its not like the guys can even fight back all that well to begin with so it just makes me ask what the point of having all of them there is.

I don't mind the enemy placement so much as I do the cumbersome methods the CaC has to use to take out the enemies. The Lightning Wispon kills all momentum when used and the homing attack doesn't look nearly as fast as Sonic's.