New Sonic Forces Gameplay teased on twitch.tv (link and screenhots here)

[Blueknight V2.0]

There's something about Infinite I don't like. Another villain trying to look better than Dr. Eggman and the other villains in the game, who have been in previous games. There are several villains throughout the modern series I don't like; 2006 villains, Erazor from Secret Rings, unsure about Black Knight, Black Doom from Shadow. The only villain so far in Sonic Boom that I dislike is Lyric. The deadly six were some of the better villains in the series, next to Dr. Eggman, Metal Sonic, Shadow in some cases and Chaos. I also thought Shadow was a hero/rival character since Sonic 2006 and Sonic Generations, and could be pretending to be a villain just to get close to Eggman and Infinite, while helping Sonic and the resistance at the same time. Now we just need Blaze, Rouge, Orbot and Cubot announced for the game and it'll be the ultimate Sonic game.

[MegasonicZX]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Line a bunch of easily destroyable enemies in front of the players has been in Sonic for a while now...

It's a boost formula stapler...

That's true but you normally have the boost to actually deal with it, here your just stringing homing attacks and the wispon attacks together which wouldn't be a problem if that part of the mechanics had enough substance to them to be used in such a fashion but they kinda don't.

[Shadowlax]

49 minutes ago, Blue Knight/Bluestreak said:

There's something about Infinite I don't like. Another villain trying to look better than Dr. Eggman and the other villains in the game, who have been in previous games. There are several villains throughout the modern series I don't like; 2006 villains, Erazor from Secret Rings, unsure about Black Knight, Black Doom from Shadow. The only villain so far in Sonic Boom that I dislike is Lyric. The deadly six were some of the better villains in the series, next to Dr. Eggman, Metal Sonic, Shadow in some cases and Chaos. I also thought Shadow was a hero/rival character since Sonic 2006 and Sonic Generations, and could be pretending to be a villain just to get close to Eggman and Infinite, while helping Sonic and the resistance at the same time. Now we just need Blaze, Rouge, Orbot and Cubot announced for the game and it'll be the ultimate Sonic game.

I feel bad for infinite. He was supposed to be this big reveal. But everyone is just talking about shadow possibly being a bad guy. He bout to get silvered. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

35 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I feel bad for infinite. He was supposed to be this big reveal. But everyone is just talking about shadow possibly being a bad guy. He bout to get silvered. 

Well that's what happens when one character is potentially undergoing something that could shake things up vs a new evil guy who's probably going to follow 1 of the 2 stereotypes so commonly associated with new Sonic villains (ie monster who is the true mastermind and final boss or monster who betrays Eggman).

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I thought the issue with Silver was that he was a decent enough personality introduced via a slow, janky gameplay style in a broken, unfished pile of shit of a game, which hampered his ability to be popular outside of the comics? Infinite's deal seems to be somewhat sidelined among us hardcore fans, but it hardly resembles "getting Silvered".

[Dr. Detective]

The thing with Shadow was definitely purposefully revealed the way it was as a marketing tactic. That's the first thing that came to mind for me, which is why I don't buy "Oh, he's evil now". It just feels like something done to easily trick people. And if it is just a marketing thing, then it worked like a charm considering how many people jumped to believing they actually made him evil. Although they were probably hoping for a more "Oh no! Why is Shadow on the bad guys side?" kind of response rather than a "Of course those morons would put Shadow on the bad guys side and completely ignore his backstory." because sometimes they seem a bit ignorant to how the fanbase reacts when they see something off from them nowadays. This is something that was only going to be pulled off well with enough goodwill built up within the base to rely on.

And even still it might not have worked. I remember when the Archie comics did something similar with Shadow in the Shadow Fall arc. I didn't buy that he'd turn evil so seeing the one cover where it showed Shadow having "betrayed" everyone, beating up a G.U.N soldier with Rouge and Omega "defeated" at the side with his eyes NOT glazed over in a hypnotized stare I took to be a straight up marketing lie. And it was. In the book he was just hypnotized.

I never underestimate their ability to lie. So I laughed when it said "New evil" and cut to Shadow's face. 

... Then again, Iizuka might be going a bit crazy considering the whole human dimension and animal dimension thing. The whole thing with Classic Sonic being from another dimension I'm on board with but his insistence that the humans are somehow separate... like it just rams a finger in the ass of the logic of the series. For no reason.

Which is why I totally understand why everyone else reacted the way they did. Because not for nothing, there's still a part of me that's thinking "But what if they DID make him evil despite what Iizuka said about there being answers for the question as to why he's on their side?" It's never a sure fire thing with these guys.

Because they don't ever seem to know what they're doing even when they say what it is they're doing.

[Shadowlax]

30 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I thought the issue with Silver was that he was a decent enough personality introduced via a slow, janky gameplay style in a broken, unfished pile of shit of a game, which hampered his ability to be popular outside of the comics? Infinite's deal seems to be somewhat sidelined among us hardcore fans, but it hardly resembles "getting Silvered".

It does. Silver was literally " hey look at this cool guy, we are trying to do shadow again. A hedgehog with strange powers from a weird place, who wants to fight sonic because of reasons" heck the even attached a character to him to help boast his popularity. That notoriously didn't actually work out, another good example of this is Zoroark from pokemon " hey we can do lucario again " no one liked, it. Lucario took over the gen it was supposed to be the mascot of. People notoriously call this " poochy " but I don't think it fits, I dub the trope "Mr.Me too" . This isn't exact the same though, the new guy isn't really trying to be shadow, but whatever he is trying to be.. I got trumped by shadow looking edgy next to some badguys on a rock.

While yes silver was in a bad game, that isn't the only reason. Shadow stared in his own bad game, and still maintains an insane amount of popularity, there were other reasons. Largely he kind of looks like a goober to a many people, and for many they were propping him up to be important... and a lot of people weren't feeling him for various reasons. And that's why I use the example, its this " here's a new character" and then everyone goes, "that's nice , what about this thing" and it doesn't really take off. 

And it isn't just among the hardcore fanbase... a lot of the people in multiple sites,twitter, gaf, youtube, even shitty places like 4chan, heck even people I know in real life said " why is shadow a bad guy" like dudes who haven't payed attention to sonic in the longest and went " why is my boy shadow a bad guy" . Obviously this is all anecdotal evidence, but I haven't really seen a lot of interest in this new guy, just people talking about game play and people worried about shadow. Which makes sense... he's a popular guy, all i'm saying it it has to suck. I've heard developer talks like with Gears where they have redesigned whole levels to have people see and pay attention to art direction, to have something you put design effort to .. disregarded on some level has to suck a bit

15 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

Because they don't ever seem to know what they're doing even when they say what it is they're doing.

That's why I don't trust anything they say until the game is out. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I think you're missing my point. I believe Silver could have been plenty popular if he didn't play like shit, and Sonic 06 hadn't been a pile of garbage, and the reason he's hated is because it was and he did. Shadow was introduced in a game people liked, played in a way people liked, and thus people like Shadow. Infinite doesn't apply to either of these because he's introduced in a game that won't get a 4/10 and he's not playable in the first place, he's much more of a Dark Gaia or Merlina, a villain that isn't memorable enough for anyone to care about (or so I assume) regardless of the game quality. Even if he wasn't blocked off by Shadow bitching, not many people would probably be talking about him in the first place (especially since we know next to nothing about him and he's kind of stupid looking).

[Blue Blood]

Why is Silver even in this game? Isn't he supposed to be living it up in an Iblis-free future?

Oh fuck it. It's not like anyone working on the game actually gives a damn. I'm betting on Blaze popping up too. We've already got; Zavok, who should be dead and/or hating Eggman; Chaos, who's actually a guardian and should arguably be dead or at least not around; Shadow, who spent a huge arc discovering he's actually a good guy and has saved the world multiple times and should be dead and Classic Sonic who's just massive ass-pull. Oh yeah and the Wisps are still hanging around without an explanation because who needs continuity?

Urgh, this game. 

[Sean]

I'll forgive everything if they just bring back Witchcart

[ChikaBoing]

21 hours ago, The Deleter said:

I've been watching footage, and I've noticed that Sonic accelerates pretty fast, and then caps his speed much faster than before. The boost is at a set speed, as well, and even Generations had some speedup to it.

There might not be a run button, but the gameplay feels like a faster Lost World than Colors because of this tbh. Whether that's a good or bad thing, (considering platforming is easier to manage with a set speed) we'll see, though.

I agree with this when looking at it. The movement of Modern Sonic is supposed to me more precise. Level designs like in the Zelda DLC would be cool to see

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

8 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I think you're missing my point. I believe Silver could have been plenty popular if he didn't play like shit, and Sonic 06 hadn't been a pile of garbage, and the reason he's hated is because it was and he did.

That and he could be quite insufferable with his naietivety and how stupidly OP he was,  making Sonic look bad. 

[Soniman]

I'll never understand why the fanbase gets so tilted seeing the wisps still around (for story/continuity based  reasons), like it's this weird hangup fans have held onto for 4 years since SLW even though it's something so minor I don't really get why people cared that much, I just assumed some stayed behind and left it at that. 

Then again I guess this just ties into the fact I stopped caring about consistent continuity in Sonic a long time ago anyway so eh 

[Wraith]

5 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

I'm betting on Blaze popping up too.

It's hilarious how far they've stretched themselves to bring shit I don't like at all like Zavok, Classic Sonic and Silver back and yet the closest thing I've seen to my favorite Sonic character is:

This game mocks me

3 minutes ago, Soniman said:

I'll never understand why the fanbase gets so tilted seeing the wisps still around (for story/continuity based  reasons), like it's this weird hangup fans have held onto for 4 years since SLW even though it's something so minor I don't really get why people cared that much, I just assumed some stayed behind and left it at that. 

Then again I guess this just ties into the fact I stopped caring about consistent continuity in Sonic a long time ago anyway so eh 

They don't like the wisps. There's not much else to it.

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

17 minutes ago, Josh said:

They don't like the wisps. There's not much else to it.

It's more so the case of them not all being handled as well as they were in Sonic Colors too.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

5 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

I'm betting on Blaze popping up too. We've already got; Zavok, who should be dead and/or hating Eggman;

Blaze popping up would be one of the best and least contradicting appearances as it's been canon for a long time she can use her emeralds to dimensional travel easily. Zavok never died... Don't know why some people believe that when we've seen characters like Bowser fall into lava every other week. And far as him hating Eggman? There's all sorts of reasons they might be willing to team up again.

I'm still betting on infinite using time/dimensional travel and picking characters from different times/dimensions to add to Eggman's army. Shadow from when before he turned good or him from the dark ending from the alternate paths on the Shadow game. Chaos 0 right after Robotnik first found him... Classic Sonic is here again so stuff like that isn't exactly unbelievable.

I mean... even if that's not the logic going on here, can't we at least try to trust Sonic Team little to have in story logic for this stuff instead of assuming they won't explain anything when they already confirmed to play the game to find out some of these mysteries?

[Waveshocker Sigma]

25 minutes ago, Soniman said:

like it's this weird hangup fans have held onto

You could've just stopped there since that's basically this fanbase in a nutshell, honestly.

Anyways, I hope Blaze DOES show up. I need to see my favorite character back in action.

[Blue Blood]

40 minutes ago, Soniman said:

I'll never understand why the fanbase gets so tilted seeing the wisps still around (for story/continuity based  reasons), like it's this weird hangup fans have held onto for 4 years since SLW even though it's something so minor I don't really get why people cared that much, I just assumed some stayed behind and left it at that. 

Then again I guess this just ties into the fact I stopped caring about consistent continuity in Sonic a long time ago anyway so eh 

The series has always a story and continuity. From SA1 through to 06/Unleashed, the story was at the absolute forefront. Although this drew ire much of the time, that doesn't change the fact that the series did have a continuity to uphold. Even the main games predating SA1 had a continuity.

Colours still had a story, but it just took a bit of a back seat. That story quite clearly outlined that the Wisps came from the far reaches of space, and returned home after the events of the game. They said a big goodbye to Sonic and Tails, and that was that. Gameplay wise, the Wisps weren't particularly amazing either. I don't think many people were exactly clamouring for their return in every subsequent game.

Generations brought back the Wisps in a single level because of Time Travel. No complaints there. Lost World is where it really became a problem because they were forced into that game to absolutely no benefit at all. They were easily the absolute worst part of the gameplay. And in addition to that, Lost World had a really awfully presented story with a million loose ends. But even in that mess of a story, the Wisps didn't get a mention. They were just there because whatever. It's one thing to loosen up on the confines of a story, and another to completely contradict past events. The least that they could have done was put in a single throwaway line explaining that some of the Wisps separated and stayed in/returned to "Sonic's world". Even Runners managed this, but not until after Lost World and it was just a  minor mobile game that's long since been made unavailable. So for no reason at all they're still still around, lingering in Eggman's capsules. I'm not satisfied to fill in glaring plot holes with my own headcanons. 

Sonic games got so hooked up on stories for a long while and now don't seem to give a shit about them. The Wisps have never been given a reason to return after Colours, not even for gameplay. Forces has the Wispons, so I don't really get why the Wisps need to be here either. Or they could have, you know, explained their persistent presence in Sonic's world.

Personally speaking, the Wisps are a great example of some of the many problems plaguing the both the series gameplay and general narrative. Although there are bigger problems, the Wisps are an easy one to discuss and to fix. Sonic Team won't do that though because they don't even have a clue what they're doing these days. And as long as Forces specifically does so much more wrong than it does right, the Wisps are a very fair criticism. Which is strange because it actually looks like they're going to be used better here in the gameplay than in any preceeding games. 

[Sega DogTagz]

9 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I mean... even if that's not the logic going on here, can't we at least try to trust Sonic Team little to have in story logic for this stuff instead of assuming they won't explain anything when they already confirmed to play the game to find out some of these mysteries?

I myself was utterly shocked to see how people reacted to Shadows appearance. All the claims of undoing character arcs and whatnot. Shadow is probably the only character in the franchise with convictions and willpower that are close to being seemingly on par with Sonic himself. There is absolutely no way Sonic Team would introduce the guy as a villain without some kind of explanation as to why he's suddenly switched sides.

This isn't a new continuity like Sonic Boom where they have no burden of proof to make those kinds of decisions. Shadow is an established hero, they are not gonna have the guy heel turn for no reason. The games have mishandled alot over the years, but I still think they've done enough to earn the benefit of the doubt when it comes to "this character good; this character bad. Jeez.

I'd also be surprised if Blaze didn't pop up somewhere. Everyone else is here so it makes no sense to leave her out of the fun. As for Silver, I imagine Eggman ruling the world would have some serious impact on his future - iblis or not. So he's more than welcome to come back and have a hand in saving the day. In fact, he may never have left to return to his future. Its never been revealed just how he time-travels in games outside of 06. Maybe he got dragged back in Generations and never got a chance to go home?

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

 

I mean... even if that's not the logic going on here, can't we at least try to trust Sonic Team little to have in story logic for this stuff instead of assuming they won't explain anything when they already confirmed to play the game to find out some of these mysteries?

I can promise to mow your lawn. I didn't promise to mow your lawn, competently. But at least with your lawn, you might get parts of your lawn actually mowed, with writing failing to do that competently might not even accomplish anything. Sega has yet to make me believe in their ability to deliver on this front, at all. And I mean in good games, generations story just dissolves into nothing after the first cutscene .

 

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I myself was utterly shocked to see how people reacted to Shadows appearance. All the claims of undoing character arcs and whatnot. Shadow is probably the only character in the franchise with convictions and willpower that are close to being seemingly on par with Sonic himself. There is absolutely no way Sonic Team would introduce the guy as a villain without some kind of explanation as to why he's suddenly switched sides.

There is no promise that explanation will be good, and with writing the explanation could be so bad that it can essentially loose its function an an explanation and accomplish nothing. And nothing sega has done in the past few years has made me trust them to not do that. 

Quote

This isn't a new continuity like Sonic Boom where they have no burden of proof to make those kinds of decisions. Shadow is an established hero, they are not gonna have the guy heel turn for no reason. The games have mishandled alot over the years, but I still think they've done enough to earn the benefit of the doubt when it comes to "this character good; this character bad. Jeez.

No they havent, They havent done enough at all. There is no reason to trust them on anything until the game is released. On the note of sonic boom, it kind of did have burdern, shadow was changed a whole lot part of that was reception. Alternate versions of characters, still require justification or there isn't really a reason to use said character, its not a free pass to nostalgia money as sonic boom found out. Comic book publishers will tell you, you can make alternate versions of super heroes from other earths, in different mediums entirely like movies and cartoons,  but you need to sell me on why that's cool for me to buy into it

[Sega DogTagz]

7 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

There is no promise that explanation will be good, and with writing the explanation could be so bad that it can essentially loose its function an an explanation and accomplish nothing. And nothing sega has done in the past few years has made me trust them to not do that. 

 

An explanation and a good explanation are two completely different things.

There were people on these boards bemoaning the possibility of Shadow being used as a villain with NO explanation whatsoever. Just that he got out of bed and decided he wanted to wreck Sonic's day. To expect that kind of narrative is utter nonsense. To hang on a lack of storytelling capabilities, and confuse the weak story efforts of Colors, Gens and Lost World with some fallacy that Sonic Team would all of the sudden forget that their second most popular character is currently aligned as a hero? I can openly mock that line of thought. Sonic Team has done nothing to earn that specific slight of their reputation.

If you can't trust Sonic Team to come up with a good explanation - thats another issue entirely. But be it mind-control, extra-dimensional shenanigans, or Eggy twisting his arm, there is no reason to be anxious that Sonic Team will not provide some explanation as to why he is a part of the fearsome foursome. To think anything else is just letting disappointment or anst over past stories cloud your better judgement.

It be no different if Tails popped up in Shadow's place during that trailer. If that was the case, would you be throwing up your hands and condemning it as a heel turn for his character? Or would you take the obvious, most sensible and easiest answer to the question and simply state, there is obviously more to this story. We should be treating Shadow no different.

 

7 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

No they havent, They havent done enough at all. There is no reason to trust them on anything until the game is released. On the note of sonic boom, it kind of did have burdern, shadow was changed a whole lot part of that was reception. Alternate versions of characters, still require justification or there isn't really a reason to use said character, its not a free pass to nostalgia money as sonic boom found out.

 

Sonic Boom had zero burden because it was developing its own universe. They required no re-introduction or excuse to change Knuckles into a hulk. It didn't need to explain why Eggman was wearing different clothes. The first episode didn't have to sit there and explain why each of the characters were a little bit different then what you may have been used to. It doesn't have to defend any of the choices it makes, beyond the execution of those choices. They wanted to make Knuckles simple minded, they did. They wanted to have Eggman lean a little bit more to comedy, they did. They wanted Shadow to oppose Sonic, guess what, they did. Alternate versions of characters are just that. They are alternates. They aren't always expected to conform identically to the base model. Boom took that and ran with it, correctly choosing to create characters that fit its universe. 

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I mean... even if that's not the logic going on here, can't we at least try to trust Sonic Team little to have in story logic for this stuff instead of assuming they won't explain anything when they already confirmed to play the game to find out some of these mysteries?

Why should we trust Sonic Team? What in the past 20 or so years justifies us trusting in Sonic Team's writing decisions?

Like, sure, they'll almost certainly have some kind of explanation for all this shit. But it's not about having any explanation, it's about having a good explanation. And I don't see that happening, because the closest thing I can think of to a good explanation is, as you said, that these are different versions of the characters, which is still a really bad explanation.

[Dr. Detective]

It isn't a trust thing that kept me from buying that Shadow was not suddenly evil personally. It just screamed of something they'd use as a cheap marketing tactic.

Because, the actual, literal truth is that they haven't had Shadow just be straight up evil with no explanation in any other game before this in the main continuity. Not even in any of the spin-offs. I have a lot of disdain for the logic and follow-through with a lot of their decisions but I don't believe they're AS random as the hyperbole towards their decision making makes it out to be.

But again, keeping my fingers crossed. They may one day prove to actually be that ridiculous. 

_{^{Branching pathways in Shadow the Hedgehog count as an explanation by the way.}}

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Like, sure, they'll almost certainly have some kind of explanation for all this shit. But it's not about having any explanation, it's about having a good explanation. 

I agree with that but to be fair, there are a number of people who are seriously mad at this because they expect no explanation. 

[Blue Blood]

I don't trust Sonic Team to make good decisions. Every time that it seems like they might have made a good choice, it eventually transpires that both their reasoning and execution were balls. And even if the reasoning is actually good, which remains to be seen in for cases like Shadow's in Forces, the execution can still very easily undo and undermine that. 

Once bitten, twice shy. Expecting the worst from Sonic Team isn't unjustified. 

[Sega DogTagz]

Expecting bad isn't expecting nothing though. There were people here who were legit saying "OH I GUESS SHADOW IS A BAD GUY TODAY - GUESS WE HAVE TO GO WITH THAT"

That's mind numbing levels of stupid to me.