Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

[Multikaris]

 

Well, this looks like Echidna hair...

 

I wonder if Tikal got Winter Soldier'd? 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, Mayor D said:

Is there a video clip of this? Would quite like to see this scene.

at 26:20

[StaticMania]

5 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I think my opinion is that lore really does hold this franchise down at times. Who cares that Shadow turning dark contradicts lore. Who cares that Chaos coming back contradicts lore. 

People just want explanations. The lore doesn't matter when time travel is involved.

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Infinite looks interesting. I'm curious about the story.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Except maybe when everyone is dead? Dude, he just lost everything, and he goes back to snark. That's... that's like sociopathic. 

Or, it's like Sonic the Hedgehog. Because continuing to be cocky in the face of overwhelming odds is kind of his thing. And he doesn't know that everyone is dead (they aren't actually dead, after all), he just knows they're in danger and he can't get in contact with them, so he keeps moving forward.

Just now, Miru the Living Planet said:

Well, this looks like Echidna hair...

It doesn't look like that at all.

[Plasme]

1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

Good for you.

I for one like my games to at least to try to make some kind of sense instead of having characters turn heel more often than The Big Show does and the justification for it not being "because the script said so".

I just don't think plot or lore is anywhere near important enough in a Sonic game to stop these characters to come back. Sonic needs more consistency, and having some staple villains is a step in the right direction. Every platformer has staple villains, Sonic not having a million new minor villains is a good move (although I'm not overjoyed with seeing Infinity, at least he looks cool). I'd rather ditch the crappy new additions like the Deadly Six for some staple and cool villains.

I will always put gameplay and characters over a platformer's plot, especially a series with as convoluted and messy lore as Sonic.

[Chris Knopps]

6 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

We also don't need any backseat moderation in these instances.

Here's a good question for you to help distract you from the aggravation of what happened...

Of the bosses shown so far, which do you like most? The ones in the Classic stage against Eggman or that chase boss with the giant crab? Or do you maybe like one of the potential bosses shown at the end of the recent trailer more?

Although it makes me wonder WHY he's there, I admit I do like Chaos.

[Osmium]

4 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Does Sonic get stuck in a perma-super form halfway through the story?

Please, doesn't this game already look like a fanfiction enough to you 

[Plasme]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

People just want explanations. The lore doesn't matter when time travel is involved.

No. People don't want explanations. The game will offer some stupid explanation and everyone knows that.

People are unhappy because of how this contradicts or goes against lore. They don't want to see Shadow as a villain, or Chaos either for that matter, because it contradicts the series' legacy.

I'm saying lore really isn't that significant in Sonic. Chaos is cool, I want to see him back.

[ZinogreVolt]

I'm fine with these guys coming back as villians, should make the plot more interesting and/or stupid. Just as long as they present original boss fights rather than retreads. Which if the Egg Dragoon is anything to go by, we should be getting.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Could someone please explain what about this game, or its implications, feels like a fanfic? All I see is the writers finally putting some stakes and lore back into the series, to an extent and expertise not seen since Sonic Adventure. 

[Detective Kaito]

3 minutes ago, Miru the Living Planet said:

 

Well, this looks like Echidna hair...

 

I wonder if Tikal got Winter Soldier'd? 

*Knock knock*

Who's there?

It's Ken Penders with a lawsuit.

[Nepenthe]

19 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I think my opinion is that lore really does hold this franchise down at times. Who cares that Shadow turning dark contradicts lore. Who cares that Chaos coming back contradicts lore. I really think that seeing these cool characters again is good enough in itself. I really couldn't give two hoots to how this contradicts lore. You don't get this in other mascot platformers. You don't get Mario turning down the Koopa Kids because they were beaten in Mario World.

I don't play Sonic to get the same exact gaming experience as I would with Mario. If I wanted that, I'd honestly just play Mario and not touch Sonic ever again at this point, because at the very least I know I can always guarantee a better gameplay experience. The whole point of Sonic's existence in the first place was to be an alternative choice in the genre to sell consoles, and part of making that choice viable and worth investing in was the fact that Sonic Team once upon a time cared about both creating lore and stringing subsequent games' stories together in narrative arcs whereas Mario didn't care at all. This is partly why a lot of the older games' stories are fondly remembered, and I enjoy the games' stories most when they don't underestimate me as an audience member or underestimate themselves just because they're a platformer (which doesn't mean anything; literally no one shits on Ratchet and Clank for having a continuous narrative or character arcs).

On top of this, I'm still a huge Shadow fan, and I don't want to see him used in a manner that amounts to nothing but basic fan service that's not even relevant to the character in this day and age anymore. I want his previous character development acknowledged properly, and I want his subsequent appearances based off of that. Hell, I want him to develop or be characterized in new ways and get into interesting narrative situations, like what ironically happened in Sonic 06. This can't happen if all they keep doing is bringing him back as ridiculous boss fodder because it's "nostalgic."

[Whatever the WhoCares]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

I don't play Sonic to get the same exact gaming experience as I would with Mario. If I wanted that, I'd honestly just play Mario and not touch Sonic ever again at this point, because at the very least I know I can always guarantee a better gameplay experience. The whole point of Sonic's existence in the first place was to be an alternative choice in the genre to sell consoles, and part of making that choice viable and worth investing in was the fact that Sonic Team once upon a time cared about both creating lore and stringing subsequent games' stories together in narrative arcs whereas Mario didn't care at all. This is partly why a lot of the older games' stories are fondly remembered, and I enjoy the games' stories most when they don't underestimate me as an audience member or underestimate themselves just because they're a platformer (which doesn't mean anything; literally no one shits on Ratchet and Clank for having a continuous narrative or character arcs).

On top of this, I'm still a huge Shadow fan, and I don't want to see him used in a manner that amounts to nothing but basic fan service that's not even relevant to the character in this day and age anymore. I want his previous character development acknowledged properly, and I want his subsequent appearances based off of that. Hell, I want him to develop or be characterized in new ones, and get into interesting narrative situations, like what ironically happened in Sonic 06. This can't happen if all they keep doing is bringing him back as ridiculous boss fodder because it's "nostalgic."

Would you be okay with it if there turned out to be a good reason for him to be an antagonist?

[Badnik Mechanic]

Just now, Plasme said:

 Sonic needs more consistency,

... But it's ok for Shadow to keep going back and forth when it comes to him being a villain or not?

Also nobody is saying a character can't come back. They're saying it's stupid for a character to keep changing because the script says so and not for a legitimate reasons.

And finally your argument contradicts itself. You say you care about characters and gameplay over plot. But how a character behaves and acts directly affects the plot and will ultimately decide if what a character does makes any sense.

[Wraith]

7 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I just don't think plot or lore is anywhere near important enough in a Sonic game to stop these characters to come back. Sonic needs more consistency, and having some staple villains is a step in the right direction. Every platformer has staple villains, Sonic not having a million new minor villains is a good move (although I'm not overjoyed with seeing Infinity, at least he looks cool). I'd rather ditch the crappy new additions like the Deadly Six for some staple and cool villains.

I will always put gameplay and characters over a platformer's plot, especially a series with as convoluted and messy lore as Sonic.

If the characters don't act like themselves and I can't play as them there's basically almost no gain in them coming back for me. I guess it's nice to see a shiny model for Chaos? That's not enough for me tho. He's supposedly had the hatred purged from him so seeing him and Tikal in a new context would have actually been nice for me.

[Shadowlax]

11 minutes ago, Plasme said:

 

I think my opinion is that lore really does hold this franchise down at times. Who cares that Shadow turning dark contradicts lore. Who cares that Chaos coming back contradicts lore. I really think that seeing these cool characters again is good enough in itself. I really couldn't give two hoots to how this contradicts lore. You don't get this in other mascot platformers. You don't get Mario turning down the Koopa Kids because they were beaten in Mario World.

because I like shadow, and I like him eventually becoming a good guy. I think that was a good part of his character. So I care yes, because this is not that. 

Oh god this feels like being on a forum when DmC got annouced " who cares about the old DMC it was old bad cheesy anime anyway" 

11 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Shadow, Metal Sonic and Chaos are staple villains at this point, they are cool, and I want them to be back as villains. I'm really excited about this, damn the lore. When you get a game that plays loose with lore as Sonic does, I really think we should put gameplay and cool characters first.

Shadow is antihero villian turned hero , whatever you called people liked that. So when you say put cool characters first, being like " who cares about shadow being a villian " is a contradictory statement. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

3 minutes ago, Plasme said:

They don't want to see Shadow as a villain, or Chaos either for that matter, because it contradicts the series' legacy.

Please quote someone who has said that.

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

4 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

Please, doesn't this game already look like a fanfiction enough to you 

I was thinking more of the classic InSONICnia fancomic, actually.

...ohh, but now that I'm thinking about it, we need a false master emerald that turns people into clowns, too!

[Nepenthe]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Would you be okay with it if there turned out to be a good reason for him to be an antagonist?

Not particularly, no. It would just soften the blow. Even if I found it entertaining, I would strongly advise them to not do it again.

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

*Knock knock*

Who's there?

It's Ken Penders with a lawsuit.

Don't encourage him. That man probably lurks EVERYWHERE nowadays.

Then again, maybe Forces is why he's been so silent lately...

...He's waiting...

[StaticMania]

3 minutes ago, Plasme said:

No. People don't want explanations. The game will offer some stupid explanation and everyone knows that.

People are unhappy because of how this contradicts or goes against lore. 

Having something would be fine...it's the usage of Shadow that's really going against te grind.

 

Shadow hasn't been seen in years and his first come back is as an unplayable villain, it's fine to be disappointed by that.

 

Chaos ascended, so there's no way for him to come back as anything else but a villain.

[Multikaris]

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I was thinking more of the classic InSONICnia fancomic, actually.

...ohh, but now that I'm thinking about it, we need a false master emerald that turns people into clowns, too!

Or it turns females all round like a balloon, at this rate. 

[Patron]

Mania isn't tieing into Forces, is it? If this is still happening in the Generations timeline, it's as of yet unknown what happened to Classic Robotnik. Mania Robotnik seems to pull the same "going all out from the start"-shtick as Forces Eggman, if the GHZ boss is any indication. On top of that some of the revisited zones seem to have undergone big changes under the doctors influence, leaving them familiar yet distinct (e.g. Stardust Speedway).

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Don't encourage him. That man probably lurks EVERYWHERE nowadays.

Then again, maybe Forces is why he's been so silent lately...

...He's waiting...

Waiting for what? He only got anywhere with Archie because they're a horribly mismanaged company that couldn't pay for decent lawyers and failed to get the officials of the series involved. Going up against a Japanese monster like Sega would destroy him in an instant.

1 minute ago, Miru the Living Planet said:

Or it turns females all round like a balloon, at this rate. 

That never happens in the comic.