Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

[Diogenes]

9 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I just don't think plot or lore is anywhere near important enough in a Sonic game to stop these characters to come back. Sonic needs more consistency

Maybe consistency in who is or isn't a villain and who is (either literally or effectively) dead would be a good start.

Like I am about the last person to get worked up over Sonic lore these days but things like putting Shadow on the villain's side and bringing back Chaos as a villain are absolutely not things that should be allowed without a damn good explanation.

5 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Could someone please explain what about this game, or its implications, feels like a fanfic? All I see is the writers finally putting some stakes and lore back into the series, to an extent and expertise not seen since Sonic Adventure. 

If you can look at two Sonics and your OC fighting All Of The Villains (even ones that have turned good) and not see how that looks like bad fanfic, I don't think words exist to explain it to you.

[Osmium]

12 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Could someone please explain what about this game, or its implications, feels like a fanfic? All I see is the writers finally putting some stakes and lore back into the series, to an extent and expertise not seen since Sonic Adventure. 

Let's get a bunch of "villains", most of which have absolutely no reason to be here, have them be against Sonic, once again, half of them having no reason to be against Sonic at this point, along with not!Mephiles because we're trying to be serious and edgy this time, meanwhile we are fighting them with our OC and a furry resistance army. Come on. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

10 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

at 26:20

I don't see a problem with it. Dio is absolutely spot on. 

[Salamander]

...This game is so odd.  I can't keep track of what it thinks it is any more.  Is it a time-travel game, and that's why all these old villains are back, because they've been plucked from the past or because Classic Sonic himself got booted forwards?  But if so, why are they so insistent on Classic Sonic coming from a different dimension, and how would different dimensions tie into Shadow and Chaos being evil again for some reason?  I just don't know.  But there is one thing I do know...

...this is exactly the kind of bad I wanted this game to be.  Full fanfic, a madcap frenzy of inexplicable villain returns and betrayals and absurd plot twists.  This game could have so easily had a boring plot, and instead it's going to have a ridiculous one, and I am fully on-board with Generations 2: This Time With Plot.  The deeper they go, the more I'll enjoy it.  Shadow having his own inscrutable agenda rather than just being brainwashed?  Go for it!  Infinite having some convoluted relationship to past games?  No objections here!  Even if it's dumb and makes no sense, this is closer to my vision of what Sonic should be than the past few games with barely a hint of plot.  The idea of a Sonic game with a plot where crazy events are continually occurring is far better than a lacklustre trudge through the levels to the finish line.

If they keep this up, I might even buy the game.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Waiting for what? He only got anywhere with Archie because they're a horribly mismanaged company that couldn't pay for decent lawyers and failed to get the officials of the series involved. Going up against a Japanese monster like Sega would destroy him in an instant

Remember Sonic Chronicles?

SEGA are as unlucky with him as Archie. Heck, look at how Perci from BOOM turned out to be "not" an echidna despite her design being very "echidna" to me.

But... I'll stop, this is going into a lot of irrelevant things.

It seems the Infinite villain is wearing a mask, wonder what the face beneath is like?

[Kuzu]

19 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

We also don't need any backseat moderation in these instances.

Noted.

 

So......I really nothing major to say actually lol. Game is still kinda eh on gameplay. Story is gonna be a clusterfuvk tho.

[Shadowlax]

On one hand, I don't like a lot of things with this game.The other, In a weird way i'm kind of glad shadow the hedgehog on multiple websites being a bad guy caused people to collective go " what the fuck are you even doing " . Along with the other elements of the game.

I mean it sucks, but that's kind of cool 

[Sonictrainer]

Something tells me we'll be fighting Chaos Zero in a remixed version of the Chemical Plant Zone

[Plasme]

Let me put it this way. I like Shadow, Metal Sonic and Chaos, moreover, I think all these characters are at their most compelling as villains. Shadow as an anti-hero who has his own motives, something the PR guy has explicitly said. I really don't give a fuck if that contradicts lore, I play Sonic for the gameplay, not the plot. I never have done, and loads of fans like myself feel the same. Chaos looks cool, he has a cool attack method, I want him in. Simple as. If you don't agree, fair enough, but I'm not a weird, bizarre fan for thinking that.

The truh is, Forces has been met with almost universal hatred by online forums ever since it was announced. All I've seen are pessimistic posts about how much it's going to suck, ironically from people who spend their whole lives following the fuck out of it (as I do). I think one key reason people don't like it (and I know there are many), is that Sonic Team are just saying 'fuck it' and are throwing lore out the window. If they want to make Shadow, Metal Sonic and Chaos feature, in this badass ensemble of villains, they'll do it, lore won't hold them back. I really do understand why people don't like that, but for people like myself, who just love these character's designs, characteristics and gameplay, I welcome it. Gameplay has always been key to me, and I'm glad to see Sonic Team really putting it as top priority.

I think Forces looks badass, and I can't wait to see what happens next.

 

[Soniman]

i sympathize with you all i really do.

i just for the life of me cant bother to care about sonic lore, and consistent character developmet anymore to any serious degree. Even before  Forces Sonic has become b-movie esque entertainment and to see Forces fully embracing that with this ludicrous story, tone, and CaC stuff is fine by me.

Shadow and Chaos are villians now (or not who knows)? Okay then, look forward to seeing whats done with that. Not consistent with past portrayls? Well I already dont care to begin with anymore plus we know theres been time fuckery so I can believe certain characters would have diffrent interpretations, im just happy these characters have a prominent role.

Sonic Team has long stopped caring about its canon and continuity, so ill do the same and enjoy the madness of it all

[Detective Kaito]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Don't encourage him. That man probably lurks EVERYWHERE nowadays.

Then again, maybe Forces is why he's been so silent lately...

...He's waiting...

In all seriousness though, Infinite has white hair.

Just like Dr. Finitevus.

They also kinda have similar names.

Infinite.

Finitevus.

 

Oh no.

[Multikaris]

3 minutes ago, FFWF said:

...This game is so odd.  I can't keep track of what it thinks it is any more.  Is it a time-travel game, and that's why all these old villains are back, because they've been plucked from the past or because Classic Sonic himself got booted forwards?  But if so, why are they so insistent on Classic Sonic coming from a different dimension, and how would different dimensions tie into Shadow and Chaos being evil again for some reason?  I just don't know.  But there is one thing I do know...

...this is exactly the kind of bad I wanted this game to be.  Full fanfic, a madcap frenzy of inexplicable villain returns and betrayals and absurd plot twists.  This game could have so easily had a boring plot, and instead it's going to have a ridiculous one, and I am fully on-board with Generations 2: This Time With Plot.  The deeper they go, the more I'll enjoy it.  Shadow having his own inscrutable agenda rather than just being brainwashed?  Go for it!  Infinite having some convoluted relationship to past games?  No objections here!  Even if it's dumb and makes no sense, this is closer to my vision of what Sonic should be than the past few games with barely a hint of plot.  The idea of a Sonic game with a plot where crazy events are continually occurring is far better than a lacklustre trudge through the levels to the finish line.

If they keep this up, I might even buy the game.

I agree! I can't wait to see how the rest turns out. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Remember Sonic Chronicles?

SEGA are as unlucky with him as Archie. 

That was him suing EA and Sega, again, not giving a shit. This is Sonic Team's game, and SEGA's game. It's not the same thing as a dull b-team bioware DS spinoff that nobody cared about.

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Heck, look at how Perci from BOOM turned out to be "not" an echidna despite her design being very "echidna" to me.

That...enforces nothing about what you were saying.

 

Anyway, I second FWFF and Soniman. Sonic has made clear time and time again that it simply cannot do good plots. So why not make a plot batshit insane and get it over with? As long as the characterization is there, there's no reason to try to make something un-stupid, it just has to be fun. Like a big dumb Dragon Ball Z or whatever.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Soniman said:

 

Shadow and Chaos are villians now (or not who knows)? Okay then, look forward to seeing whats done with that? Not consistent with past portrayls? Well I already dont care to begin with anymore plus we know theres been time fuckery so I can believe certain characters would have diffrent interpretations, im just happy these characters have a prominent role.

 

If that makes you happy. That's fine. 

I'm not want to go " at least I have this " , I don't operate under the idea that sonic exists in a vacuum. Not saying you do. I believe things can be done better, and all this " at least" this and that doesn't make me feel good, I want them to do better. 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

11 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Not particularly, no. It would just soften the blow. Even if I found it entertaining, I would strongly advise them to not do it again.

I don't mind Shadow being the antagonist, but I would prefer that he at least comes around to Sonic's side by the midpoint of the game. 

[Nepenthe]

2 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I really don't give a fuck if that contradicts lore, I play Sonic for the gameplay, not the plot.

You care about the plot insofar as you prefer Shadow being a bad guy than anything else, even if it contradicts lore.

I feel like if you really didn't care about the plot, you wouldn't actually have a preference either way for how he was characterized.

[Wraith]

4 minutes ago, Soniman said:

i sympathize with you all i really do.

i just for the life of me cant bother to care about sonic lore, and consistent character developmet anymore to any serious degree. Even before  Forces Sonic has become b-movie esque entertainment and to see Forces fully embracing that with this ludicrous story, tone, and CaC stuff is fine by me.

Shadow and Chaos are villians now (or not who knows)? Okay then, look forward to seeing whats done with that? Not consistent with past portrayls. Well I already dont care to begin with anymore plus we know theres been time fuckery so I can believe certain characters would have diffrent interpretations, im just happy these characters have a prominent role.

Sonic Team has long stopped caring about its canon and continuity, so ill do the same and enjoy the madness of it all

I normally don't care because it's rare they bring back something old and fuck it up instead of fucking up some new thing. Chaos should be left alone though. That situation has been delt with and I like how that character and the lore was in that game.

Would rather the series stay episodic than start doing this tbh. 

[Soniman]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

If that makes you happy. That's fine. 

I'm not want to go " at least I have this " , I don't operate under the idea that sonic exists in a vacuum. Not saying you do. I believe things can be done better, and all this " at least" this and that doesn't make me feel good, I want them to do better. 

keep hoping, by all means, im just done being picky is all

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Plasme said:

Let me put it this way. I like Shadow, Metal Sonic and Chaos,

I like Metal Sonic and Chaos too, which is why I don't want them getting dragged through the mud and made into worse characters.

1 minute ago, Plasme said:

I really don't give a fuck if that contradicts lore, I play Sonic for the gameplay, not the plot.

Then what does it matter who the villains are? Take Forces, replace the villains' character models with featureless collision boxes, and if you genuinely give no fucks about the plot and only care about the gameplay, you should enjoy it just as much.

1 minute ago, Plasme said:

The truh is, Forces has been met with almost universal hatred by online forums ever since it was announced. All I've seen are pessimistic posts about how much it's going to suck, ironically from people who spend their whole lives following the fuck out of it (as I do). I think one key reason people don't like it (and I know there are many), is that Sonic Team are just saying 'fuck it' and are throwing lore out the window.

Continuing to do stupid, player-alienating things is not any way to fix that problem.

1 minute ago, Plasme said:

Gameplay has always been key to me, and I'm glad to see Sonic Team really putting it as top priority.

Everything about Forces is exactly the opposite of that, though.

[Kellan]

I care very much about the lore, and that's precisely why this trailer made me super hyped. I can't wait to see what they do with this.

[Nepenthe]

Also, Sonic Team doesn't care about a lot of things beyond story. Gameplay is one such thing; Mania and Odyssey are steamrolling Forces on different fronts with the arguable exception of sheer graphical fidelity. So since they don't care about shit like physics and cohesive design and all of that, should we just settle for whatever?

[Zaysho]

2 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

In all seriousness though, Infinite has white hair.

Just like Dr. Finitevus.

They also kinda have similar names.

Infinite.

Finitevus.

 

Oh no.

Just to be THAT guy

Penders doesn't own Finitevus (Karl Bollers does, but he's far less litigious). And the only reason he threw a tantrum was because he thought the Nocturnus ripped off the Dark Legion.

Though that'd be kind of hilarious. I still get "Phage" vibes from Infinite.

Maybe not quite, but the aesthetics with digital looking cubes forming around instantly brought me to that.

[Kuzu]

Is the fact that this game kind of flies into the face of continuity and consistency for the sake of plot such a hard thing to grasp on why people might not be on board with this premise?

I'm nowhere near as upset and I think it's a stupid idea. 

[Soniman]

5 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Also, Sonic Team doesn't care about a lot of things beyond story. Gameplay is one such thing; Mania and Odyssey are steamrolling Forces on different fronts with the arguable exception of sheer graphical fidelity. So since they don't care about shit like physics and cohesive design and all of that, should we just settle for whatever?

you know that all or nothing strawman logic doesnt really work right ?

Obviously I would want them to care about gameplay, since this is a video game I thought that was obvious, i just dont value shit like story in a Sonic game as much as you do

[Osmium]

You know, if this series actually had good writers with good reputations, I would be very interested in what this was all about as there perhaps could have been some really clever twists and all that jazz to get us to this point, like a "how did we get here??" style trailer to a show. But this is Sonic Team we're talking about.