Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

[StaticMania]

1 minute ago, Patron Night said:

Huh, I stand corrected. Was Heroes just pretending to have a twist then, or could Heroes-Shadow and StH-Shadow still be two distinct entities?

Heroes wasn't trying to have a twist...it implied the real Shadow was alive, and Shadow the game just confirmed that. Heroes was trying to false lead, but it didn't matter.

[Johnny Boy]

7 minutes ago, Patron Night said:

You're in for a treat then. I totally forgot that there aren't just android copies, but also pods full of clones of him. The semi-modern games left it completely ambiguous whether you're playing as the real Shadow, who'd have had to survive cosplaying as shooting star, or some sort of duplicate. For all we know it could be OG Shadow, the one who we've been following the whole time or someone completely different.

Fun is infinite with Sega Enterprises lore, sometimes...

No actually if you take long enough in the Devil Doom boss fight in Shadow's game Eggman out right admits that he lied about Shadow being a robot and the he is indeed the OG Shadow from SA2.

[NegaMix]

11 minutes ago, Patron Night said:

You're in for a treat then. I totally forgot that there aren't just android copies, but also pods full of clones of him. The semi-modern games left it completely ambiguous whether you're playing as the real Shadow, who'd have had to survive cosplaying as shooting star, or some sort of duplicate. For all we know it could be OG Shadow, the one who we've been following the whole time or someone completely different.

Fun is infinite with Sega Enterprises lore, sometimes...

Are you referring to the pods that Team Chaotix destroy in Sonic Heroes? 'Cause those only contained Shadow Androids. And the Shadow that's been playable since SA2 has always been the original (as Eggman reveals in Shadow The Hedgehog).

If this antagonistic Shadow in Forces turns out to actually be an Android... I'd probably be okay with that.

[Mega]

I'd also like to add that the Japanese manuals for the Sonic games were actually fairly story heavy.

[MudHunter]

Hero park avenue at 3:40 (Switch)

 

I like how modern Sonic and Hero are looking like they'll control more loosely than past modern games.

[Patron]

1 minute ago, Captain Metallix said:

Are you referring to the pods that Team Chaotix destroy in Sonic Heroes? 'Cause those only contained Shadow Androids. And the Shadow that's been playable since SA2 has always been the original (as Eggman reveals in Shadow The Hedgehog).

I actually thought about Team Dark. On the Egg Fleet they encounter a room filled with the same kind of pods Shadow emerged from in the intro. Rouge approches Omega about Shadow maybe being a robot, while he talks about cloning.

[Solly]

1 minute ago, MudHunter said:

Hero park avenue at 3:40 (Switch)

 

I like how modern Sonic and Hero are looking like they'll control more loosely than past modern games.

Switch version looks like it might be 30fps, but I'm not seeing any other obvious visual downgrades, so that's something. Lower resolution screen probably helps. It's looking pretty nice. 

[Bowbowis]

Honestly, I prefer Blaze as a serial rapist who's after the Chaos Emeralds because she wants to sell them to fuel her meth habit. I mean, sure, that flies in the face of established canon, but hey, SEGA stopped caring about that a long time ago and I never cared about in the first place so, by the logic I've been seeing here, if Forces decides to portray her like that we should all just be cool with it. Right?

[Detective Kaito]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but this is the full playthrough of Modern Sonic's stage. We see Shadow in the end but as soon as Sonic reaches him the level ends. It's safe to assume that there's a cutscene following the stage "explaining" why Shadow is a bad guy, then followed by a boss battle.

[NegaMix]

1 minute ago, Patron Night said:

I actually thought about Team Dark. On the Egg Fleet they encounter a room filled with the same kind of pods Shadow emerged from in the intro. Rouge approches Omega about Shadow maybe being a robot, while he talks about cloning.

Yeah, I can see the confusion. I think the idea was that, while the Androids weren't organic, Eggman created them by studying Shadow after saving him. The way Omega mentions it, though, does make it sound like they're organic clones.

On topic: Y'know, if they're gonna go out of their way to bring back villains like Chaos and Zavok, I'm actually a little surprised that they haven't thrown Eggman Nega into the mix too.

[Endy]

I always saw Sonic canon as pretty inconsequential, frankly I find it being loose and episodic much more appealing than some giant interconnected epic. Continuity has never once been a huge factor in Sonic games and there is very little reason to get upset over things that appear in this game. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

21 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I didn't like the other games stories because they were embarrasing and had awful writing. Pontac and Graff massively improved things with Colors onwards.

No they didn't, because 1) their attempts have been just as divisive as that from games between SA2 and Unleashed, and Colors was generally the only decent one that doesn't get as much scrutiny, and 2) they didn't even write those stories to begin with-they merely wrote the english versions of a story that was already written before hand.

Even barring all that, Pontac and Graff are without a doubt one of the most arguable aspects over any improvement because anyone can look and Lost Worlds and see that it doesn't hold together very well either.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

2 minutes ago, Captain Metallix said:

I'm actually a little surprised that they haven't thrown Eggman Nega into the mix too.

You see Dr.Eggman wipes off his makeup to reveal he is actually Eggman Nega and says (HA! Fooled you all! The real Dr.Eggman isn't even in this game!)

[Badnik Mechanic]

28 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Sonic 1 = Sonic wants to fight Eggman because Eggman captures critters. That's literally all there is to the story.

Sonic CD = Same as Sonic 1, but Metal Sonic has also kidnapped Amy.

Sonic 2 = The same as Sonic 1, except Tails is there.

Sonic 3 = The same as Sonic 1, except Knuckles is tricked by Eggman to fight Sonic. Sonic 3 has more of a story than the others, but it still has an incredibly thin plot.

Sonic had a very basic plot, it paled in comparison to Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger which were around at the time. Sonic didn't start taking plot seriously until Adventure, which ended up being an awful move.

Sonic Adventure: Sonic tries to stop Eggman from taking over the world with the help of Chaos the God of destruction.

Sonic Unleashed: Sonic tries to stop Eggman from taking over the world, but he turns into a wolf at night.

Sonic Generations: Sonic tries to stop Eggman from taking over the world by erasing it from time. 

 

See I can over simplify the plots too.

 

Maybe you should play the classics again, only this time pay attention to the little details they add into the game, Sonic 3 is an easy example as it has a lot of more obvious ones. Such as the moment when Sonic takes his time to go up Sky Sanctuary and Knuckles gives him a look of 'well I might try and go if he doesn't'.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

You guys, I finally figured out who Infinite reminds me of.

this loser! We finally got it guys, a true sequel to Sonic Shuffle!

 

[Nepenthe]

9 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but this is the full playthrough of Modern Sonic's stage. We see Shadow in the end but as soon as Sonic reaches him the level ends. It's safe to assume that there's a cutscene following the stage "explaining" why Shadow is a bad guy, then followed by a boss battle.

Hmm. Seems like there's a lot of small diversions here and there in the level, but they're going by so fast and the level is so dense with geometry it's hard to make out what is and isn't solid ground. Also, like the song, from what I can hear. Butt rock in Sonic levels just makes me feel cozy. Also I still don't find the chatter too distracting; surprised that Sonic doesn't talk back most times though, as that makes it a bit awkward. Finally, I like that this is shaping up to look like Modern Sonic's opening level- a hectic, dire situation. It's kinda like Sega listened to people who wanted Unleashed's opening playable. But man it's kind of...short. Like, it feels nowhere near as long as Apotos was.

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

I always saw Sonic canon as pretty inconsequential, frankly I find it being loose and episodic much more appealing than some giant interconnected epic. Continuity has never once been a huge factor in Sonic games and there is very little reason to get upset over things that appear in this game. 

So it's ok to ignore established characterization and plot threads when it's convenient?

Cool, I want Sonic to start killing and swearing next game. Because lore doesn't matter right?

[Nepenthe]

4 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

I always saw Sonic canon as pretty inconsequential, frankly I find it being loose and episodic much more appealing than some giant interconnected epic. Continuity has never once been a huge factor in Sonic games and there is very little reason to get upset over things that appear in this game. 

No one wants a giant interconnected epic.

They want to be reasonably reassured that characters will be recognizable in the next game.

[Wraith]

10 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

 

Cool atmosphere, but a very short level with not much going on in terms of level design. I enjoy playing Apotos even today, so it being the first level isn't much of an excuse.

[Soniman]

9 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Hmm. Seems like there's a lot of small diversions here and there in the level, but they're going by so fast and the level is so dense with geometry it's hard to make out what is and isn't solid ground. Also, like the song, from what I can hear. Butt rock in Sonic levels just makes me feel cozy. Also I still don't find the chatter too distracting; surprised that Sonic doesn't talk back most times though, as that makes it a bit awkward. Finally, I like that this is shaping up to look like Modern Sonic's opening level- a hectic, dire situation. It's kinda like Sega listened to people who wanted Unleashed's opening playable. But man it's kind of...short. Like, it feels nowhere near as long as Apotos was.

feels intentional for the sake of the demo , the ending feels to abrupt to me

[Endy]

15 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So it's ok to ignore established characterization and plot threads when it's convenient?

 

I didn't say that, I said it's ultimately inconsequential and Sonic continuity isn't something to be up in arms about. Previous Sonic plot threads don't seem to be relevant to this game in any way, so I see very little reason to get upset.

If this is about Shadow I highly doubt they're going to completely change his character, they've been portraying him as a Sonic friend for the longest time now and I don't see why they'd change that now. It just seems like they're using him because he's an iconic Sonic character known for being a rival to Sonic, fitting for the idea of a Sonic rogues gallery they're using in this game.

[ZinogreVolt]

25 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but this is the full playthrough of Modern Sonic's stage. We see Shadow in the end but as soon as Sonic reaches him the level ends. It's safe to assume that there's a cutscene following the stage "explaining" why Shadow is a bad guy, then followed by a boss battle.

Looks fun, but not nearly as ambitious or long as it ought to be when you compare it to Modern Green Hill Zone and especially Apotos Act 2

[McGroose]

There was no way Sega could have revealed any part of the story without expecting the fanbase to be confused as fuck. I'm sure that the entire story as a whole makes some sense, but what we've been revealed now is making all of the Sonic dorks aficionados either scratching their heads or screaming at their computer monitors wondering why Sega is ruining the continuity. I actually really like what they've showed us so far. It's definitely Generations 2 in all but name, but I love how we're actually getting a really detailed and, dare I say, epic story from this franchise for once.

I really don't care about continuity in Sonic, so long as 06 and the aliens from Shadow are long gone, so I'm definitely more optimistic than I am pessimistic. With that in mind, I really hope we can have detailed stories in the future that don't rely on time travel anymore. This needs to be the last game relying on that concept. Kind of unsure about what I think regarding Zavok's return, but I'm not closed minded. Should the deadly six return, I hope we get some more fleshed out character development from them instead of just some lame caricatures like before. Metal's return is always good, Chaos always was little more than an monster antagonist in my eyes, and I never liked Shadow outside of being a villain anyway. Infinite is... well it's not Mephiles so whatever.

What I'm still annoyed with is the lack of 3D. God damn it Sega, where's the 3D?! All of that gameplay you've revealed to us, and barely 1/3 of it was 3D (not including classic). Please, if additional 3D means not using the Boost formula again, just scrap it. I just want 3D Sonic games. Ya'll are complaining about the story and the continuity and Classic's return n' shit, but I'm just complaining about how there's so little 3D level design. It's laziness.

In the long run, at least we can all agree that the new Sega outro they had was pretty cool. 
God damn it can we at least agree on that

[Mark1]

My two cents on what has been shown so far. Game is looking decent - bit safe at times with many aspects of Generations coming back.

All 3 styles look decent. Definitely liking it more than I initially feared following the first few teasers.

Infinite gives me partial Mephiles vibes. Need to see more before giving full impressions. Seeing Shadow, Chaos and Metal Sonic return is good (but hope it's not another retread of the Generations bosses again - on that note the abundance of returning features is something I wish Sega would stop)

[Kuzu]

39 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but this is the full playthrough of Modern Sonic's stage. We see Shadow in the end but as soon as Sonic reaches him the level ends. It's safe to assume that there's a cutscene following the stage "explaining" why Shadow is a bad guy, then followed by a boss battle.

Not bad for an opening level, if a little short. Seems about the standard Modern Sonic level for the most part. The level music is pretty nice and voice commentary isn't too annoying.