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Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP


Badnik Mechanic

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The Switch version of Sonic Forces has its framerate halved to 30.

On one end I can't say I'm surprised and 30FPS was the Modern Sonic standard before this point.

But on the other end it looks absolutely beautiful in 60FPS and I wanted the Switch version to be my go-to. Ah well. 

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44 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So it's ok to ignore established characterization and plot threads when it's convenient?

Cool, I want Sonic to start killing and swearing next game. Because lore doesn't matter right?

 

58 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

Honestly, I prefer Blaze as a serial rapist who's after the Chaos Emeralds because she wants to sell them to fuel her meth habit. I mean, sure, that flies in the face of established canon, but hey, SEGA stopped caring about that a long time ago and I never cared about in the first place so, by the logic I've been seeing here, if Forces decides to portray her like that we should all just be cool with it. Right?

oh..you guys are gonna start doing this now huh?

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4 minutes ago, Soniman said:

 

oh..you guys are gonna start doing this now huh?

What? If lore doesn't matter, why is it a problem?

It's ok for this game to be fan fiction tier in terms of narrative, then anything should go as far as narrative is concerned at this point.

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I had a nice little laugh when it said "A new evil" and it cut to Shadow's face. That was funny.

Speculation among us until we actually know what the fuck's going on is expected to continue to be a plethora of our reactions assuming the absolute worst I'll bet. And if not that then we'll just end up being skeptical, if not a bit excited should we find some of these issues to be minor enough. Since the story stuff is the stuff that's in MY wheelhouse you'd think I'd be the most worried but I'm actually not.

If anything I'm excited for something that looks like its going to allow cool shit to happen again. No more standing in one spot, making dad jokes. Lets do some goofy anime shit again, finally!

Shadow is a curious case. One of the reasons I'm not thinking they just made him a villain again is due to the fact that this Infinite dude is here. Either its a brainwashing thing or he's able to conjure versions of people and things Sonic's fought before.

Either that or its the real Shadow but he's doing some covert shit. Which most definitely isn't the case because that sounds a little too interesting and hard to pull off without Eggman going "I still love ya Shadow. You my bro but... come on now? You don't expect me to buy this change of heart right?"

Also the vagueness of his description being "Shadow: Once called “The Ultimate Life Form,” Shadow fights for his own reasons. He appeared in Sonic Adventure 2. " is a little odd.

"Fights for his own reasons" could mean anything. Like they offered him some super dank cookies and he was like... "Yeah."

I actually would buy Rouge being in that spot more than Shadow if it were just a decision one of them made for a surprise undercover operation. She can sell the villain act better. Which is funny because I can also buy her as the type of person who would still attend Sonic's birthday party despite that.

I really like Infinite's design. It's cool looking. And Chaos looks like real ass water. That's the realist and the wateriest he's ever looked.

So is this Civil War? Sonic Heroes verus the Eggman Empire? If so, I'd be delighted to see this without the OCs and the Classic stuff. Still running on the idea that both of those were unnecessary I'm afraid.

Still excited. Not hyped, but a bit closer to it then I was before.

 

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

I didn't say that, I said it's ultimately inconsequential and Sonic continuity isn't something to be up in arms about. Previous Sonic plot threads don't seem to be relevant to this game in any way, so I see very little reason to get upset.

The fact that previous plot threads aren't relevant is the reason I'm upset to begin with lol.

37 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

If this is about Shadow I highly doubt they're going to completely change his character, they've been portraying him as a Sonic friend for the longest time now and I don't see why they'd change that now. It just seems like they're using him because he's an iconic Sonic character known for being a rival to Sonic, fitting for the idea of a Sonic rogues gallery they're using in this game.

If he's his friend, why is he siding with the villains who are actively opposing Sonic? Shadow hasn't had any reason to oppose Sonic in forever. Like you said, they've been on the same side for years. Why is it fine to ignore that just for the sake of a boss fight? Didn't we criticize him in Rise of Lyric for this exact same thing? Randomly fighting Sonic just because?

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Sonic Boom didn't matter, it was a different Shadow who most likely didn't have the same backstory.

He's pretty much nothing but a random dick in the Boom series.

Apparently in Forces, he's doing it for his "own reasons", so I can assume whatever he's doing is to help the villains but for whatever Shadow is doing that the story might explain.

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Rouge is super interesting. He's on a team with rouge and omega , why is he even doing this? Is he a spy?

Regardless

I found this picture on tumblr regarding the matter and it made me laugh

tumblr_inline_orib9kbokQ1rd9rgn_540.jpg

 

50 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

I didn't say that, I said it's ultimately inconsequential and Sonic continuity isn't something to be up in arms about. Previous Sonic plot threads don't seem to be relevant to this game in any way, so I see very little reason to get upset.

 

Then why use the character, why use a character whos popularity is literally because of plot threads. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

If only Shadow ended up being neutral, this whole thing could've been avoided...

Or just use another character entirely and just have him team up with the rest of the good guys :V

Jet would have been more of a logical choice than Shadow. At least he's actually a dick who doesn't like Sonic and I could believe him being coerced into teaming up with Eggman to oppose him.

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8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The fact that previous plot threads aren't relevant is the reason I'm upset to begin with lol.

If he's his friend, why is he siding with the villains who are actively opposing Sonic? Shadow hasn't had any reason to oppose Sonic in forever. Like you said, they've been on the same side for years. Why is it fine to ignore that just for the sake of a boss fight? Didn't we criticize him in Rise of Lyric for this exact same thing? Randomly fighting Sonic just because?

I was listing the fact that Forces has little connection to the other games as a reason to not get upset.

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1 hour ago, Plasme said:

Sonic 1 = Sonic wants to fight Eggman because Eggman captures critters. That's literally all there is to the story.

Sonic CD = Same as Sonic 1, but Metal Sonic has also kidnapped Amy.

Sonic 2 = The same as Sonic 1, except Tails is there.

Sonic 3 = The same as Sonic 1, except Knuckles is tricked by Eggman to fight Sonic. Sonic 3 has more of a story than the others, but it still has an incredibly thin plot.

Sonic had a very basic plot, it paled in comparison to Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger which were around at the time. Sonic didn't start taking plot seriously until Adventure, which ended up being an awful move.

Sonic 1 and 2 had almost nothing to do with each other. Sonic 3 had a very thin plot, yes, but it was still extremely thin.

I didn't like the other games stories because they were embarrasing and had awful writing. Pontac and Graff massively improved things with Colors onwards.

I'm not totally bothered by the old plots, but it's worth mentioning.

So would you prefer a basic plot or an overly wacky one? Because Pontaff is really an even bigger world apart from the classics in the end. 

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3 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Or just use another character entirely and just have him team up with the rest of the good guys :V

Jet would have been more of a logical choice than Shadow. At least he's actually a dick who doesn't like Sonic and I could believe him being coerced into teaming up with Eggman to oppose him.

But Jet's just some lowly treasure theif...who doesn't like Sonic. All 3 returning characters could've just been new peeps.

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My speculation to how Eggman assembled his force:

Metal Sonic: this one is painfully obvious as he's Eggman's creation. 

Shadow: Calling it now, he's just simply acting as a mole for the resistance. Or alternatively, he could be pulled from a timeline where he didn't undergo a Heel Face turn. Or to go even further, Eggman found a way to make Shadow an amnesiac (again) and trick him into thinking he's his minion.

Chaos: Well In Generations, Eggman finally managed to have a god monster not turn against him, so it's not much of a stretch to think that he found a way to keep Chaos under control. That or Chaos is pulled from a timeline where Eggman didn't give him the Chaos emeralds (thus fueling his rage).

Zavok: Eggman somehow managed to find the magic conch shell and get the Deadly Six back under his control. And this time he doesn't have to worry about Sonic kicking the shell out of his hand since the latter learned his lesson from lost world.

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13 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Or just use another character entirely and just have him team up with the rest of the good guys :V

Jet would have been more of a logical choice than Shadow. At least he's actually a dick who doesn't like Sonic and I could believe him being coerced into teaming up with Eggman to oppose him.

But Shadow is (kind of) a dick who isn't exactly Sonic's bestest friend in the whole world? I dunno, I could be sold on him not wanting to work with Sonic. I'm not saying they'll give a good reason for sure here, but I'm not writing it off as OOC just yet.

edit: This of course will fall apart if all these villains really are working with Eggman, in which case yeah it's definitely weird. Could still chalk it up to mind control, or like Johnny Boy up there suggested, he's acting as a mole.

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I've seen a lot of people whining about this game "ignoring the canon" and being "fan-fic tier" and I honestly don't understand it.

They've taken like three or four steps forward by:

1. Actually foregrounding the story and taking it seriously for once in the past 10 or so years

2. Having actual world building through character interactions

3. Proper consequences and actual stakes

4. Possibility for proper character development and drama for the first time since SA2

And you're complaining they haven't followed canon? That's not even a step backwards, they've been ignoring it for a while.

And what exactly does "fan-fic tier" mean? If you're talking about fanfiction that deliberately ignores canon then this is nothing on the levels of that. We don't have Amy and Sonic paired in a house with kids and Shadow as a babysitter do we?

However if it means the four points above, possibly a few plot holes and a new character or two then that's more of a compliment - count me in if that's the case!

Also, on the matter of Shadow being evil, I don't think they've magically just made him evil again, I think there'll be some kind of explanation. The purpose of Park Avenue, as given away by the dialogue is to find Shadow. Logically, they probably don't know he's evil and are looking for him to get help - why else would they be looking for him? Then they find him and he's been somethinged (brainwashed, mind controlled, manipulated etc) into fighting with the bad guys.

God it feels good to actually be properly speculating about a story again.

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This game feels like more of a fan game than Mania...

 

I just don't really get it, it's like they've thrown EVERYTHING together to try and appeal to every aspect of the fan base and ultimately ended up creating this big alienating mess than doesn't really have any identity of it's own.

 

Despite it's short comings Generations was a beautifully presented love letter to the franchise, this is just some fan fiction-esque amalgamation of ideas that manages to rub me up the wrong way with every new reveal of information.

 

Like I said, I just don't 'get' this.

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8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Or just use another character entirely and just have him team up with the rest of the good guys :V

Jet would have been more of a logical choice than Shadow. At least he's actually a dick who doesn't like Sonic and I could believe him being coerced into teaming up with Eggman to oppose him.

 

That would have made less sense.

Jet isn't interested in world domination.

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13 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

I was listing the fact that Forces has little connection to the other games as a reason to not get upset.

Well then too bad, because I'm already upset :V

 

6 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

That would have made less sense.

Jet isn't interested in world domination.

He doesn't have to want to conquer the world, he could just wanna fuck up Sonic. The world be damned. But you are right it wouldn't be any better because he too saved the world.

Could have probably made a new anthro then.

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Whatever this game is, sonic still destroys robots, he's not saving princesses, he's not turning into a werehog, he's not wielding a sword, he's collecting rings, his friends are in the game, I guess some fans wanted sega to do something with shadow for once. There are stakes, Sonic is fighting dr. Eggman with the help of another sonic and finally you. Looks like a sonic game to me.

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10 minutes ago, Celestia said:

But Shadow is (kind of) a dick who isn't exactly Sonic's bestest friend in the whole world? I dunno, I could be sold on him not wanting to work with Sonic. I'm not saying they'll give a good reason for sure here, but I'm not writing it off as OOC just yet.

Him not liking to work with Sonic, and teaming up with the villains aren't mutually exclusive. Even if Shadow has always just done his own thing, his primary motivation since 2006 has been protecting the planet. 

10 minutes ago, Celestia said:

edit: This of course will fall apart if all these villains really are working with Eggman, in which case yeah it's definitely weird. Could still chalk it up to mind control, or like Johnny Boy up there suggested, he's acting as a mole.

The trailer makes it pretty clear they're working for him, at least on the surface. So we're led to assume they actually are teaming up for WORLD DOMINATION.

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12 minutes ago, Celestia said:

edit: This of course will fall apart if all these villains really are working with Eggman, in which case yeah it's definitely weird. Could still chalk it up to mind control, or like Johnny Boy up there suggested, he's acting as a mole.

Mind control would suck

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4 minutes ago, Acoolsonicfan said:

Whatever this game is, sonic still destroys robots, he's not saving princesses, he's not turning into a werehog, he's not wielding a sword, he's collecting rings, his friends are in the game, I guess some fans wanted sega to do something with shadow for once. There are stakes, Sonic is fighting dr. Eggman with the help of another sonic and finally you. Looks like a sonic game to me.

replacing shitty gimmicks with other shitty gimmicks still isn't a good thing

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6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Him not liking to work with Sonic, and teaming up with the villains aren't mutually exclusive. Even if Shadow has always just done his own thing, his primary motivation since 2006 has been protecting the planet. 

Well yeah, but my first thought with this trailer was that these guys are separate from Eggman and possibly fighting him too. Though it seems I missed something from the trailer that indicates otherwise?

...I dunno, I watched it again and nothing suggests Infinite and his gang are with him. Not writing off the possibility tho'. Oh lol, the Youtube description says Eggman brought them together. Could've been made more clear in the trailer itself.

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We don't know the full context for the Shadow thing yet. Even for the goobers at Sonic Team, I don't buy that they'd just have Shadow be all up for World Domination out of the blue. 

This does make the dialogue Sonic and Amy had about Shadow's whereabouts in the Modern Park Avenue stage more interesting though. Seems they were actively trying to find him for some reason or another. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

We don't know the full context for the Shadow thing yet. Even for the goobers at Sonic Team, I don't buy that they'd just have Shadow be all up for World Domination out of the blue. 

This does make the dialogue Sonic and Amy had about Shadow's whereabouts in the Modern Park Avenue stage more interesting though. Seems they were actively trying to find him for some reason or another. 

 

 
 

Yeah, Amy said he was fighting...

Who exactly was he fighting before Modern Sonic gets there?

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