Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

[ZinogreVolt]

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

We don't know the full context for the Shadow thing yet. Even for the goobers at Sonic Team, I don't buy that they'd just have Shadow be all up for World Domination out of the blue. 

This does make the dialogue Sonic and Amy had about Shadow's whereabouts in the Modern Park Avenue stage more interesting though. Seems they were actively trying to find him for some reason or another. 

 

I'm gonna guess that Sonic was looking for Shadow in order to have him help beat the Death Egg Robots in the surrounding area with his Chaos powers and junk, but then its revealed that Shadow is working against Sonic.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Sonictrainer said:

Yeah, Amy said he was fighting...

Who exactly was he fighting before Modern Sonic gets there?

If he wasn't already fighting Sonic then I guess either another member of the resistance or against Eggman's forces.

 

[Shadowlax]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

We don't know the full context for the Shadow thing yet. Even for the goobers at Sonic Team, I don't buy that they'd just have Shadow be all up for World Domination out of the blue. 

 

 

I Do

Because lost world happened. Remember everyone in that game, remember how they were all terrible. Even tails and sonic. 

I have no hope 

[Flyinpenguin117]

Well, this game looks like a fuck of cluster proportions. 

I never thought that seeing Shadow would kill my hype this much. Its like he only exists to be shoehorned in for cheap fan service while ignoring everything that made him appealing in the first place. I think I already know how his story presence is going to go:

"Now, Sonic, I will destroy you once and for all!"

*loses like a bitch, undoes brainwashing if they actually go that route*

"Next time, Sonic, I will destroy you once and for all!"

Well, at least Chaos looks pretty cool with full modern graphics. Cancelled out by Zavok appearing for no reason, just like Classic Sonic is appearing for no reason. New villain looks dumb, to put it nicely. Man, I really wanted to look forward to this game, but every piece of news has killed my hype more and more.

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I Do

Because lost world happened. Remember everyone in that game, remember how they were all terrible. Even tails and sonic. 

I have no hope 

That's a terrible logic leap...hope is irrelevant to just assuming the ridiculous.

[ShadowSJG]

Is this it for E3?

[ZinogreVolt]

2 minutes ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

Well, this game looks like a fuck of cluster proportions. 

I never thought that seeing Shadow would kill my hype this much. Its like he only exists to be shoehorned in for cheap fan service while ignoring everything that made him appealing in the first place. I think I already know how his story presence is going to go:

"Now, Sonic, I will destroy you once and for all!"

*loses like a bitch, undoes brainwashing if they actually go that route*

"Next time, Sonic, I will destroy you once and for all!"

Well, at least Chaos looks pretty cool with full modern graphics. Cancelled out by Zavok appearing for no reason, just like Classic Sonic is appearing for no reason. New villain looks dumb, to put it nicely. Man, I really wanted to look forward to this game, but every piece of news has killed my hype more and more.

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense, it seems like you're criticizing it based on what you think is going to happen rather than what was actually shown.

[Sonictrainer]

1 minute ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

Cancelled out by Zavok appearing for no reason

 

• He's not dead.
• He's the leader of the Deadly Six
• this isn't the first game he's appeared in outside of Lost World
• Eggman said he would find another Zeti Whistle Seashell and find the Zeti again

[Shadowlax]

5 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

That's a terrible logic leap...hope is irrelevant to just assuming the ridiculous.

Eh to be fair, the same guy who directing lost world is directing this game. The same folks writing lost world is writing this game. They've yet show me in any meaningful capacity that the character representation wouldn't improve. And they did it to the batman and robin of this franchise, I would I believe it would be any different than with shadow. They have shown completely disregard to characters before? What would be stopping them now?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

6 minutes ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

Well, at least Chaos looks pretty cool with full modern graphics. Cancelled out by Zavok appearing for no reason, just like Classic Sonic is appearing for no reason. 

Why the hell does Chaos get a pass when he's appearing for the exact same shit that Zavok and Classic Sonic are?

[Flyinpenguin117]

Just now, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Why the hell does Chaos get a pass when he's appearing for the exact same shit that Zavok and Classic Sonic are?

He's not, I'm just saying he looks kinda cool.

[Endy]

34 minutes ago, Mr Kingalocious said:

I've seen a lot of people whining about this game "ignoring the canon" and being "fan-fic tier" and I honestly don't understand it.

They've taken like three or four steps forward by:

1. Actually foregrounding the story and taking it seriously for once in the past 10 or so years

2. Having actual world building through character interactions

3. Proper consequences and actual stakes

4. Possibility for proper character development and drama for the first time since SA2

And you're complaining they haven't followed canon? That's not even a step backwards, they've been ignoring it for a while.

And what exactly does "fan-fic tier" mean? If you're talking about fanfiction that deliberately ignores canon then this is nothing on the levels of that. We don't have Amy and Sonic paired in a house with kids and Shadow as a babysitter do we?

However if it means the four points above, possibly a few plot holes and a new character or two then that's more of a compliment - count me in if that's the case!

Also, on the matter of Shadow being evil, I don't think they've magically just made him evil again, I think there'll be some kind of explanation. The purpose of Park Avenue, as given away by the dialogue is to find Shadow. Logically, they probably don't know he's evil and are looking for him to get help - why else would they be looking for him? Then they find him and he's been somethinged (brainwashed, mind controlled, manipulated etc) into fighting with the bad guys.

God it feels good to actually be properly speculating about a story again.

Despite everything about this game I suppose you can give it that, the story with this one is definitely more involved than it has been for the past few years, it looks like they're at least attempting to generate intrigue. 

[Auroxen]

So... I'm not gonna read the whole thread, just gonna post my opinion on the trailer. 
I guess I'm one of the few who's excited for the game and that liked the trailer here.

I don't dislike Shadow as a villain as long as they care to explain why, his best appearance is still SA2 imho.
I'm happy to see Metal Sonic back but I thought it was kind of obvious.
Zavok... I didn't like him in Sonic Lost World but I still think he can be done right, maybe he'll be better in Forces.
Chaos is one of my favorite villains of the series so I'm really happy seeing him back, I screamed of joy and surprise when I saw him because I was NOT expecting that.
I don't have much to say on Infinite, hope he'll not just be a generic edgy villain.

I trust that there will be an explanation to why Shadow and Chaos are apparently evil again.

I really want to give them a chance with the writing in this one because it feels to me that they are putting more effort here than in the last games.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just now, Flyinpenguin117 said:

He's not, I'm just saying he looks kinda cool.

Oh okay.

Gave the wrong impression there for a sec...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

13 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Because lost world happened. Remember everyone in that game, remember how they were all terrible.

No I don't because they weren't all terrible in broad sense like that claim suggests.

And no the villains weren't just out to destroy the world out of the blue, they were doing it for vengeance against Eggman.

Like c'mon, it wasn't the best story but it wasn't even close to bad as you're suggesting there.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

I Do

Because lost world happened. Remember everyone in that game, remember how they were all terrible. Even tails and sonic. 

I have no hope 

Yes yes. They were all terribly written. I know. Whatever. I have ups and downs with how they were written personally but that's not something I want to talk about for the millionth time right now.

I don't put that on the same level as this.

I knew these kinds of reactions would happen of course. I can't blame anyone for refusing to wait and see and just kicking up dust and salt immediately without the full context. Given their track record with getting things wrong and how terribly marketed this game has been, it's understandable.

I'm just saying that I personally don't buy it. There's a few things I can see them forgetting or ignoring but this falls into the camp of something I'm sure will come packaged with some sort of explanation. 

That explanation still stands a chance of being terribly written and dumb of course, but even in Generations,(which embarrassingly already has much less story to it then Forces despite it not having come out yet) it wasn't like Shadow was working with the two Eggmans or the Time Eater. He was just being a dick because he wanted a fight. That was stupid and it'd be a dumb explanation if it happened here too but it's not going to just be "I'm evil now". 

Same with Silver. In fact it was worse with Silver. "Are you the real Sonic? Or are you a fake sent for the chaos emeralds?" 

That was so lazy and dumb it almost made blood spray from my eye-holes, but it was still written in a way that made sure we knew Silver wasn't "evil". Just a really dumb motherfucker.

My saying this isn't the same thing as me having "faith" in Sonic Team. I'm just not being over-zealous. Yes, they forget a lot of extraneous, easy to remember shit. But they do remember some stuff too.

 

 

[Flyinpenguin117]

10 minutes ago, ZinogreVolt said:

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense, it seems like you're criticizing it based on what you think is going to happen rather than what was actually shown.

I'm criticizing it for what will obviously happen on top of all the other dumb stuff they've announced.

[Polkadi~☆]

i don't understand

i'm just gonna quietly wait for release

[Johnny Boy]

Speaking of Silver, I'm guessing they're going for the whole "future is shit so I gotta travel to the past to fix it" story again as a reason for why he's here. Would make sense considering Classic Sonic's situation.

[Bowbowis]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

He doesn't have to want to conquer the world, he could just wanna fuck up Sonic. The world be damned. But you are right it wouldn't be any better because he too saved the world.

Could have probably made a new anthro then.

To be fair Jet has  a history of saving the world from destruction, but not of saving it from domination. Still, he doesn't strike me as the sort to throw his lot in with a totalitarian regime.

Honestly, if they wanted to do an "established hero gone bad" story, without seriously violating established characterization, the best approach would probably be to have Omega captured and forcibly reprogrammed, with Shadow and Rouge being forced to fight their friend while trying to save him from an existence as a mindless slave to the man he hates.

Actually, speaking of Rouge and Omega, we haven't seen either of them in Forces yet, have we? I think I could accept Shadow working with the bad guys if he was doing it because one, or both, of them were being used as leverage against him. '06 showed us that the members of Team Dark are pretty tight and Shadow knows all too well the pain of losing a close friend. It's not hard to imagine that he'd be willing to go to some pretty extreme lengths to keep that from happening again.

[Sonictrainer]

FORCES COLLIDE

(gifs created by unclenicky)

Can I also say I love the animation of Sonic's face here?

(gif created by doubleeclipse)

 

[ZinogreVolt]

9 minutes ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

I'm criticizing it for what will obviously happen on top of all the other dumb stuff they've announced.

Did you acquire a script or early copy of Forces? How on earth would you know how the story unfolds? I understand your pessimism towards the game's story but your assumptions are ridiculously far reaching with zero evidence to back it up.

[Flyinpenguin117]

4 minutes ago, ZinogreVolt said:

Did you acquire a script or early copy of Forces? How on earth would you know how the story unfolds? I understand your pessimism towards the game's story but your assumptions are ridiculously far reaching with zero evidence to back it up.

Lost World and Generations are all the evidence that I need.

[Dr. Detective]

Yeah, I'm definitely getting the vibe that it's not as straight-forward as "We've teamed up". There's definitely something going on here.

Metal Sonic doesn't really need an explanation but Chaos and Zavok sort of do. 

Zavok still being around makes sense but he hates the fuck out of Eggman. And Chaos... I'm not even really sure what he is now but I have a feeling it's not as cut and dry as what it looks like.

We also don't know what Infinite is even really doing with his powers there. They could all be fakes for all we know.

Yeah... yeah... we don't know anything. Like absolutely nothing. There's too little info to work off of to make a solid case for anything at the moment, so I'll hold off.

This really is one of those games that I need in my hands to see how it'll unfold. If anything that makes me anticipate it a lot more.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

21 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

Honestly, if they wanted to do an "established hero gone bad" story, without seriously violating established characterization, the best approach would probably be to have Omega captured and forcibly reprogrammed, with Shadow and Rouge being forced to fight their friend while trying to save him from an existence as a mindless slave to the man he hates.

That could definitely work. As Sonic Chronicles showed, Shadow definitely cares well for Omega.