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Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP


Badnik Mechanic

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Exactly. That was just a threat. Would people care if he actually did it?

Eggman has took over the world. He took away everything i love. I'm pissed but idc cause he's eggman. A silly eggman.

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Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Well, he did yield terror from citizens across the world in Unleashed for splitting the earth.

Did he? I recall everyone going about their day like nothing happened and a little kid throwing a rock at him. Granted, it's been a while.

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23 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

While I can see where you're coming from, given history, this is more likely the case of Eggman having a few days, at most, of pretend world domination whilst being a puppet for Infinite so Infinite can further his/her/its goal. If Infinite were actually loyal to the doc or working for Eggman because they're forced under his control... or its actually Eggman who takes out Infinite when the inevitable betrayal comes along, then I'd be satisfied.

Well, lets look at what we know about Infinite. What little we know stems from the company he keeps, namely the four horseman of the apocalypse.

Three of those horseman, Zavok, Chaos and Metal, can all be attributed to Eggman. Very few people know about the Zeti (lol Lost Hex). Unless someone is rather scholarly in ancient Echidna lure, Chaos 0 was another run of the mill mook and it would be a reach to connect him to the much more terrifying water monster that obliterated Station Square. Metal Sonic is Metal Sonic.

Even if their team up is due to Infinite's strange capabilities, its pretty clear who is pulling the strings here. Infinite would not have bothered to target three of those characters. He wouldn't have known too. Shadow is the only one of the lot that someone would think to mind control/duplicate/what-ever. The other three are obviously of Eggman's suggestion.

Could this new guy pull out the rug at the end of the game? Sure. But I have to contest that the damage has already been done. This isn't like adventure or unleashed where Eggman is on the brink of attaining ultimate power and then the MoTW does a heel turn. This is Eggman playing his game, winning and then dealing with the fallout aftermath. He's done pretty good for himself regardless of what happens in Forces.

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Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Well, he did yield terror from citizens across the world in Unleashed for splitting the earth.

The wisps were pletny terrified of him in Colors seeing how he was burning them alive for fuel.

And he had the Zeti kept in check well. He didn't really need them to be terrified of him.

Now if you're asking for Sonic to act scared of him, That's a fat chance across the entire series.

I don't remember anyone fearing him... Just what Dark Gaia was doing...

They/Yacker mocked him and they didn't seem particularly terrified of Eggman...

For a short time, then they all shoved their middle fingers where the sun don't shine and ridiculed him...

I'm not. RESPECT him to some degree as a threat maybe, but not be afraid.

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1 minute ago, WittyUsername said:

Did he? I recall everyone going about their day like nothing happened and a little kid throwing a rock at him. Granted, it's been a while.

Not the ones he interacted with directly mind. But those, like the the citizens of Apostos, mainly at night when they actually acknowledge what happened and the like,

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Oh yea, I didn't actually give my impressions of the trailer did I?

My impressions of Sonic Forces is:

 

....It exists.........yea, that's all I really got. I have no positive or negative feelings towards this game at all...it's just kind of there. So....yea...that's it.

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If they still aren't fearing him when his robots are stomping through the cities, burning everything down, and setting their homes on fire then it might just be an extreme case of "This is fine" syndrome.

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1 minute ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Well, lets look at what we know about Infinite. What little we know stems from the company he keeps, namely the four horseman of the apocalypse.

Three of those horseman, Zavok, Chaos and Metal, can all be attributed to Eggman. Very few people know about the Zeti (lol Lost Hex). Unless someone is rather scholarly in ancient Echidna lure, Chaos 0 was another run of the mill mook and it would be a reach to connect him to the much more terrifying water monster that obliterated Station Square. Metal Sonic is Metal Sonic.

Even if their team up is due to Infinite's strange capabilities, its pretty clear who is pulling the strings here. Infinite would not have bothered to target three of those characters. He wouldn't have known too. Shadow is the only one of the lot that someone would think to mind control/duplicate/what-ever. The other three are obviously of Eggman's suggestion.

Could this new guy pull out the rug at the end of the game? Sure. But I have to contest that the damage has already been done. This isn't like adventure or unleashed where Eggman is on the brink of attaining ultimate power and then the MoTW does a heel turn. This is Eggman playing his game, winning and then dealing with the fallout aftermath. He's done pretty good for himself regardless of what happens in Forces.

Hmm... Yeah, I can feel this a bit. You bring on some pretty good points. Perhaps a bit more religious context in there than I would have thought about, but hell, I enjoy some insertions like that.

 

I suppose, honestly, I have to just see how it plays out. Here's hoping I like it.

2 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Not the ones he interacted with directly mind. But those, like the the citizens of Apostos, mainly at night when they actually acknowledge what happened and the like,

I thought that night time panic was more of an effect of Dark Gaia or whatever than Eggman's actual doing.

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Just now, Dr. Detective Mike said:

If they still aren't fearing him when his robots are stomping through the cities, burning everything down, and setting their homes on fire then it might just be an extreme case of "This is fine" syndrome.

I picture it as "Alright men... Here we go again. Lets get rid of him and call it a day." really.

Plus... You know...

"No worries. Nobody died. Everybody is fine." - SEGA

I dunno... I'm just spouting indifferent salt now.

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Wait, now I'm confused. Where did this horseman of the apocalypse thing come from?

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3 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

I suppose, honestly, I have to just see how it plays out. Here's hoping I like it.

Fair enough

3 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

I thought that night time panic was more of an effect of Dark Gaia or whatever than Eggman's actual doing.

Dark Gaia's powers amplified negative emotions. Technically, it can only create a stronger manifestation of what was already within those peoples hearts.

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Just now, Sega DogTagz said:

Dark Gaia's powers amplified negative emotions. Technically, it can only create a stronger manifestation of what was already within those peoples hearts.

So... Dark Gaia is alcohol?

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2 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

So... Dark Gaia is alcohol?

Eh more like an inhibitor remover.

So yeah, probably.

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7 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Wait, now I'm confused. Where did this horseman of the apocalypse thing come from?

The Bible. 

Gotta call them something. Team Dark is already off the table. lol

3 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

So... Dark Gaia is alcohol?

Don't mess with Mr. Booze.

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Man, this game is just getting better and better for me.

And I definitely am not being sarcastic. I fucking LOVE all of this chaos. <3

Ha. Chaos. ¦D

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Yeah, if you're gonna be positive, go big or stay static...no sense being lukewarm about anything.

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This trailer has given me some really weird mixed feelings. On one hand, the sheer magnitude of brand confusion continues to shine through, literally pulling everything from the franchise into one game and then some. I just can't even begin to tackle exactly how any of this is supposed to make sense, or if it's even supposed to make sense. It really does seem fanfiction-tier at this point.

The sad thing is, under a more competent writer, the villain team-up could actually be really cool. I see a lot of people saying that Shadow got brainwashed or something, and I have no idea whether that's true or not, but that sounds like such a hack move in terms of writing. If Shadow ISN'T brainwashed though, this could actually be a really cool turn for his character, maybe kickstarting a new arc for him. Maybe Shadow is seeing some semblance of order within the midst of Eggman's chaos, and is begrudingly teaming up with the other villains in order to achieve some greater good. Maybe the reason all these villains are here together is because they've found out some way to preserve life or something. That's something that does connect the specific villains seen here; Zavok could want to preserve a thriving life for the Lost Hex and the Zeti, Chaos could want to preserve the Chao and Tikal, Metal Sonic could be looking to preserve his free will under Eggman (that one's kinda weak, I realize), and as for Shadow? He could hope to either A: save Maria from dying in the first place, or B: using Eggman's tech to preserve other people he cares about from dying in the future, so nobody has to suffer the way Maria did, and is now diametrically opposed to Sonic and his faction for trying to take that opportunity away from him. It wouldn't be great motivation, but it'd be interesting and give a chink in Shadow's armor to show that he's still willing to be selfish if it means appealing to his own twisted sense of morality. It would also tie into why the new villain's name is Infinity; he's offering these characters the chance to make all of the things they love and what they wish they could dedicate their lives to potentially infinite themselves. Notice that none of these characters (again, except Metal) are truly villainous characters; they're all confused people with genuinely sympathetic motivations that just happen to be prone to taking violent actions in order to get their way.

Then I remember that Pontaff is writing the scenario, and realize that I'm looking way too hard into this, and it's probably just brainwashing.

edit: HOLY CRAP GUYS I JUST FIGURED OUT WHO INFINITY IS.

latest?cb=20160802213007&path-prefix=pt-

CALLING IT NOW, IT'S MERLINA'S LINGERING WILL. I BET THE AVATAR CHARACTER IS SOMEHOW A BYPRODUCT OF HER ESCAPE AND THE FACT THAT THEY'RE CUSTOMIZABLE IS THE ENTIRE CANONICAL POINT OF THEIR EXISTENCE, LITERAL INFINITE WAYS OF EXISTING HOLY CRAP THIS COULD END UP BECOMING THE BEST FANFICTION EVER

Edited by Writer's Blah
Dumb fan theory revelation
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I don't know why Sega is holding back on the info, they used to reveal a lot more in E3. If I remember correctly we got a lot of Unleashed, Colors, Generations and Lost World during their respective years.

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29 minutes ago, DarkXZA said:

I don't know why Sega is holding back on the info, they used to reveal a lot more in E3. If I remember correctly we got a lot of Unleashed, Colors, Generations and Lost World during their respective years.

They probably have no idea how to push/promote Forces now after all the reception up to this point.

They likely thought they'd hit it out of the park with this one the way Mania is doing for Sonic and BoTW did for Zelda, thinking they were doing the latest and greatest thing that could have been done for the 3D portion of the franchise, only for everything to blow up in their face per-the-norm leaving them in a...

"Well... F@$K... We're so far now so... Just get it out I guess..."

Kind of predicament. I'd be clinically depressed being a part of Forces staff now.

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2 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I picture it as "Alright men... Here we go again. Lets get rid of him and call it a day." really.

Plus... You know...

"No worries. Nobody died. Everybody is fine." - SEGA

I dunno... I'm just spouting indifferent salt now.

It's more like "Alright men...Here we go again.  Let's call Sonic and rest at ease."

I used to be a big defender of Eggman becoming a more sympathetic character, starting with the Final Story of Sonic Adventure 2.  But while I still love that ending, in retrospect, he hasn't actually become a more sympathetic character; just a more pathetic character.  He's still power-hungry, he's still an egotistical jerk, but now he just sucks at his job.  I don't mind that he respects Sonic and is willing to team up with him when he needs to; in fact, I like that, but I do mind that he constantly needs to.

Beyond that, though, the problem is that lately, there's also no other villains who present a serious threat--at least not long-term.  I don't even know why they expected people to take Shadow seriously after his more recent history.

The above wouldn't actually be a huge problem had they not presented this game as something more serious, or at least, something that would be more serious if they were willing to do something edgy, but they aren't.  In light of the way this series has treated its brand and its image for the past few years, I honestly think this game would be better-received--or at least, inspire more discussion--if they'd instead made it far more about the custom characters, and had a lot of the publicity and in-game script acknowledge the memes about questionable Sonic fancharacters.  That might be controversial, but at least it's the sort of thing they're used to writing, and it would also be playing up the only thing remotely innovative about this game's gameplay.

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3 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Beyond that, though, the problem is that lately, there's also no other villains who present a serious threat--at least not long-term.  I don't even know why they expected people to take Shadow seriously after his more recent history.

What exactly is this referring to besides Sonic Booooom?

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1 minute ago, Scritch the Cat said:

It's more like "Alright men...Here we go again.  Let's call Sonic and rest at ease."

I used to be a big defender of Eggman becoming a more sympathetic character, starting with the Final Story of Sonic Adventure 2.  But while I still love that ending, in retrospect, he hasn't actually become a more sympathetic character; just a more pathetic character.  He's still power-hungry, he's still an egotistical jerk, but now he just sucks at his job.  I don't mind that he respects Sonic and is willing to team up with him when he needs to; in fact, I like that, but I do mind that he constantly needs to.

Beyond that, though, the problem is that lately, there's also no other villains who present a serious threat--at least not long-term.  I don't even know why they expected people to take Shadow seriously after his more recent history.

I think it's going to be hard in general for them to repair all the damage caused by their 4/6 to 8/10 focus they centered the franchise around ever since Colors and, I suppose to a small degree, Unleashed.

By toning down so much in this franchise and warping the locations and cast into the near equivalency of Barney and Friends compared to how/who they once were to make up for the whole 06 fiasco, it's going to take A LOT of work for anyone to really have the same interest in the cast and locations.

You don't just suddenly cater specifically to children, and failing to do so at that, then all of a sudden say "Hey! Check it! We're hip again! Check dat' dark tude!" and think all will be right with the world.

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8 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

What exactly is this referring to besides Sonic Booooom?

I was also referring to his titular game.  It took itself seriously, but fans didn't.  Oh man, though; maybe in retrospect that game's sheer audacity in pushing the limits of what was acceptable in an E10 rating was a blessing we didn't recognize until a few years after it was gone.

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