Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

[Shaddy Zaphod]

You'd be hard pressed to accept it as a "game" at all

Anywho, Shadow's problem wasn't that it took itself seriously when others didn't, it was that it expected others to take it seriously when it completely spat on everything the previous games had established for the character. I agree that it's weird that he's on the baddies side here, but I $100% can tell you that whatever reason they come up with will never top the levels of offensive stupidity that Shadow brought, and the fact that we've got writers who actually want to tell jokes within that medium means that it's already not going as over-the-top as that game was while still being expected to be seen as a real and consistent entry.

Basically, this game is closer to the way modern cartoons get more dire as time passes but don't lose their sense of fun, without going edgy-grimdark like Shadow.

ignoring the fact that Steven Universe, Gravity Falls and Adventure Time are all better written than this, of course

[Tenko]

Considering it was mentioned that your "avatar" or custom hero would be very important to the plot. I'm guessing that the warped hero/anti version of the hero guesses that were made earlier will end up being accurate. The mask is likely to disguise that the character is an evil version of your own uniquie custom hero. So the face will be disguised in all the advertising not only to look menacing/"cool", but due to Infinite's facial features being revealed in an in-game cutscene to be whatever you made your character to look like. So it will be different each play through.

That's my wild guess anywho. I wouldn't give them much more creativity or originality than that. Especially after seeing what this cluster of a game is turning out to be so far ?

Edit : Also if anyone at E3 is still reading through these posts, if it's possible to snag a Sonic Mania E3 Poster I would be more than happy to pay for shipping and a nice tip

[DarkXZA]

52 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

They probably have no idea how to push/promote Forces now after all the reception up to this point.

They likely thought they'd hit it out of the park with this one the way Mania is doing for Sonic and BoTW did for Zelda, thinking they were doing the latest and greatest thing that could have been done for the 3D portion of the franchise, only for everything to blow up in their face per-the-norm leaving them in a...

"Well... F@$K... We're so far now so... Just get it out I guess..."

Kind of predicament. I'd be clinically depressed being a part of Forces staff now.

The thing is, even Mania isn't getting as much attention as say Unleashed or Colors used to get, we barely got any new Mania info this E3. I still can't believe Forces was announced almost a year ago and we just now seeing a complete walkthrough of the first Modern Sonic level.

[Faseeh]

Dropping by to say, I literally went "oh my god" when I saw Shadow, and CHAOS. Did not expect that at all.

Obviously over optimistic for this game, but I really hope we get a good story. I'll enjoy some good character interactions. This game is a weird mix of many weird things, but I have belief that it'll be fun. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Thinking about it, that's really the best way to sum everything about this title up:

 

"Fun" is all it has the potential of being.

[Red]

Honestly excited for this for the story and character interactions alone. Can't wait for this game. I'm not the biggest fan of Generations but this game actually looks rather fun to play. Just hope the game is longer compared to Gens. And hopefully the story doesn't fall flat on it's face like Lost World's did.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

They probably have no idea how to push/promote Forces now after all the reception up to this point.

They likely thought they'd hit it out of the park with this one the way Mania is doing for Sonic and BoTW did for Zelda, thinking they were doing the latest and greatest thing that could have been done for the 3D portion of the franchise, only for everything to blow up in their face per-the-norm leaving them in a...

"Well... F@$K... We're so far now so... Just get it out I guess..."

Kind of predicament. I'd be clinically depressed being a part of Forces staff now.

You say a lot of things. A lot of things, that I think aren't true and just baseless speculation. To be honest this isn't technically higher up the food chain than that, however I think this is a bit more accurate than your usual guesses. The reaction to shadow might make it worse. I guess we'll know if they feel obligated to expand on the subject

I wonder how they are taking it. But lets not start weird development staff conspiracy theories, enough of those leak out of sega so we don't have to make them. 

 

[CowabungaCarl555]

I'm interested, but beats me if I know why.

Also, I'm not going through 24 pages to see if someone else has made the exact same comment sorry, I'm sure the general sentiment has been made but...

FEATURING ALL YOUR FAVORITE ANTAGONISTS... AND ZAVOK!

[Whatever the WhoCares]

One thing I liked in terms of changes is that the rings look better than before. Generations had these gorgeous shiny rings, and then Lost World went to these bland, non-reflective ones, which it appeared for a while that Forces was using. Glad they changed them. 

[Baconjack]

I have mixed feelings after this trailer. While I am a fan of the gameplay mechanics, I wonder why Shadow and Chaos are villains again, and why Zavok isn't going after Eggman like in Lost World.

Understandably, I'm nitpicking, but it is still confusing me.

• At the end of Adventure 1, Chaos returned to normal after he lost to Super Sonic, and was last seen in peace with Tikal.
• Shadow destroyed the Black Comet and saved the planet at the end of Shadow, saved Sonic's life from Silver in '06, and teleported the Space Colony with Sonic at the end of Adventure 2 (at the expense of his own life). I thought Sega established Shadow as a hero after '06. After all, he appeared at Sonic's birthday party in Generations and cheered on Sonic during the Time Eater boss battle.

Something's telling me Infinite has mind control, and that's how he was able to get Shadow and Chaos to kill Sonic.

[DiamondX]

My idea is that they are bringing them back from when they were evil.

Chaos is from the start of Adventure.

Shadow is from Adventure 2.

Zavok is from the start of Lost World where he was under mind control.

[Zippo]

They still haven't officially shown off the promotional art for this or Mania. How odd. 

[StaticMania]

What does this qualify as?

[Zippo]

I meant officially, as on their Twitter account, which is how it usually goes. The Mania one still hasn't gone up, I think. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/874311175269306368

That's right. Teased but not shown officially. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

5 hours ago, Writer's Blah said:

Then I remember that Pontaff is writing the scenario, and realize that I'm looking way too hard into this, and it's probably just brainwashing.

Like all others who tend to have this misconception,  I must ask. Are you in stock of proof that they're doing anything outside of mere localization work for this game's story unlike most of recent ventures since they came on board?

[Sgt Nate V]

It's a good thing that Classic is a darker blue now.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

There's a TINY bit alleged maybe kinda evidence that Pontaff can have SOME influence, I suppose.
Mr. Ken Pontac mentioned he was the one who convinced Sonic team to keep Orbot and Cubot in Sonic Colors in an 2013 interview, so at least at that point he was involved and had some minor influence on the planning phase.
But yeah, I agree we shouldn't put too much of the weight of the story on Pontaff's shoulders.

That's not to say they're entirely off the hook here, localization can still fiddle with details and influence the tone and emphasis of what's going on.
Watching any of the Sonic cutscenes with the original Japanese will show that, even before Pontaff showed up.. The infamous "Sally Acorn" being in Sonic Cd's manual comes to mind. Altough I doubt Sega will play around with the localization on that level at this point. But still, shows the power of the localization team. You might go from Womanizer to Feminist in a second.

So yeah, safe to say any BIG elements of the story, like who's in it and why and how is mostly out of their area of influence.
So best leave Pontaff out of it unless we're talking about specific dialogue flourishes. Like Tails and Eggman's banter at the boss battle about Geniuses being surprised counting as a technical fault, that's 100% Pontaff magic.

[doctorbenMD]

Some thoughts:

-Maybe Shadow is working behind enemy lines? Sort of a double-agent? 

-Maybe there's multiple dimensions, thus this Classic Sonic is from a different dimension and the one from Generations is "younger Sonic."

-Looks like there's a chaos emerald on the neck of Infinite, hence why at the end of the trailer they show the infinity symbol as an "8"--as in, he's the 8th chaos emerald. But still the dark dick version of the avatar character.

[StaticMania]

20 minutes ago, Sgt Jack V said:

It's a good thing that Classic is a darker blue now.

It's a good thing that this one piece of artwork has Classic Sonic in this darker shade...and nothing else.

 

It's negative.

[MetalSkulkBane]

I'm very confused how I feel about this game and reading 6 pages of this topic didn't helped. So are other people. Someone said earlier "I don't get why Shadow is evil, but I'm glad Chaos is back", possibly not seeing the irony in that statement.

First let me say that I believe gameplay will be good. Generations was good and this is Generations + a bit more, so it most likely will be good. So even if story will be whacko, at least it won't be 06 or RoL. It's good to know, that means majority will like at least part of the game, not Adventure games problem were peole like me like the story, but gameplay fanatics sneer at playing as Knuckles or something.

As for story...what I really would like is a self-contained epic story, that maaybe build ups on lore of previous games (again, Adventure 1-2), but I think it's obvious we're getting a fanfic-ish/fanservice pandering stuff. Well, at least their pandering to me, not to classics again. It's good seeing Chaos again, even if it's 3rd recent game (Lego, Generations) with him, it's getting a bit overdone. Put him in next Olympics and dude can go to sleep for me.

Worst case scenario: it's generatios 2. The new baddie uses timetravel or branwashing or something and that's it, guys will be just fanservice ("Shadow fight for his own reasons" is a really vague excuse). Personally I don't believe that. Why? Because generations already used Metal, Shadow, Chaos and Egg Dragoon, with Zavok appering even later. Complete rehash would be stupid even for Sega standarts.

Best case scenario: Remember how Zeeti had own cutscenes in Lost World, where they bickered with each other? I would love if Eggman made some kind of of Legion of DoomEgg and we would see how all of those guys work off each other, with Shadow being there as a plotpoint.And since there is so many of them, give us at least a short cutscnene of them fighting good guys. Like Knuckles fighting Shadow, confused why he's doing that, with Shadow winning by a cheap shot.  As for Infinite I hope he'll have some actual mystery to himself other than "new baddie". He's mindcontrolled Silver, robot made to trick Sonic, a time being that was once called Time Eather and Mephiles, constantly changing form, a conquerer from other dimension, with last level actually showing us his kingdom. SOMETHING other than "here's Zavok, he is a Zeti, and you can guess the rest".

Realistic expectations/summary: Guys, I know their trying to make appealing to Adventure Fans with 'dark tone', 'shadow is back' and 'new mystery villain', ignoring that a actual story with emotions was a heart or SA1 and 2, but I think it can still be fun. Even Rise of Lyric had sweet Metal Sonic scene while 06 had Shadow being a total badass. If all the 'villains' get a little cutscnes and Shadow's weird position will have a resonable explanation (Rouge is hostage/ double-agent/ other dimension Shadow/ "I need to be sure you're strong enough to take them on" Protoman style, there are options), if that happens I think I'll be reasonably satisfy.
As for Infinite guy, I really don't know what to expect. Will he overstage Eggman? Back stabb Eggman just to be backstabbed back? All the scenarios were already used, them being just partners would be the biggest twist. Honestly, time will tell.

[Sgt Nate V]

I honestly prefer a darker blue Classic. Even better if he's got a mohawk.

Also,

https://mobile.twitter.com/Arbys/status/874748263517216768

No idea how to embed twitter posts.

[MetalSkulkBane]

My brother pointed me out something which could be an amazing plot twist, so it probably won't happen.

Shadow, Metal, Chaos and Zavok. What those 4 have in common? That they all popular Sonic some-what bad guys that in the past turned against Eggman.

Would that be a great twist and resonable explanation for this weird team-up? If they weren't here to battle Sonic, but world conquering Eggman? Of course then we would need a contrive reason for them to fight Sonic anyway, this is a video game, but it still would be pretty cool.

[DiamondX]

3 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

My brother pointed me out something which could be an amazing plot twist, so it probably won't happen.

Shadow, Metal, Chaos and Zavok. What those 4 have in common? That they all popular Sonic some-what bad guys that in the past turned against Eggman.

Would that be a great twist and resonable explanation for this weird team-up? If they weren't here to battle Sonic, but world conquering Eggman? Of course then we would need a contrive reason for them to fight Sonic anyway, this is a video game, but it still would be pretty cool.

That actually sounds really cool.

[Johnny Boy]

6 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

My brother pointed me out something which could be an amazing plot twist, so it probably won't happen.

Shadow, Metal, Chaos and Zavok. What those 4 have in common? That they all popular Sonic some-what bad guys that in the past turned against Eggman.

Would that be a great twist and resonable explanation for this weird team-up? If they weren't here to battle Sonic, but world conquering Eggman? Of course then we would need a contrive reason for them to fight Sonic anyway, this is a video game, but it still would be pretty cool.

I'd be down for this, except Metal has been pretty loyal to Eggman ever since the Metal overlord incident (not counting Free Riders).

[PickleBrows]

I think these guys being back really is just down to Eggman plucking them for convenient points in time. 

• Metal Sonic is just a robot so could come from anywhere, let's assume pre-Heroes so ignore his rebellion there. Although he could easily be anytime afterwards with some reprogramming. He might actually not have required any time meddling to get hold of.
• Eggman takes Chaos in his earliest form, where he's not as powerful but far easier to keep in check. Having a creature that's largely immune to physical attacks, or at least projectiles, is probably still of some use.
• Shadow gets taken sometime during SA2, Eggman's rule kinda already takes care of his revenge "promise" so he'd probably in the fight to make sure Sonic and Co don't undo that.
• Zavok is probably from sometime in early Lost World simply so that Eggman can easily get him, and the conch he needs to keep Zavok in line. 

Notice that None of these four are at all phased when Infinite shows up, almost like they knew he/she was gonna be there. I assume Infinite is the one doing all the time bending stuff, essentially being this game's Time Eater except being an actual character instead of just some monster.