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Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

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6 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

My brother pointed me out something which could be an amazing plot twist, so it probably won't happen.

Shadow, Metal, Chaos and Zavok. What those 4 have in common? That they all popular Sonic some-what bad guys that in the past turned against Eggman.

Would that be a great twist and resonable explanation for this weird team-up? If they weren't here to battle Sonic, but world conquering Eggman? Of course then we would need a contrive reason for them to fight Sonic anyway, this is a video game, but it still would be pretty cool.

I'd be down for this, except Metal has been pretty loyal to Eggman ever since the Metal overlord incident (not counting Free Riders).

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I think these guys being back really is just down to Eggman plucking them for convenient points in time. 

  • Metal Sonic is just a robot so could come from anywhere, let's assume pre-Heroes so ignore his rebellion there. Although he could easily be anytime afterwards with some reprogramming. He might actually not have required any time meddling to get hold of.
  • Eggman takes Chaos in his earliest form, where he's not as powerful but far easier to keep in check. Having a creature that's largely immune to physical attacks, or at least projectiles, is probably still of some use.
  • Shadow gets taken sometime during SA2, Eggman's rule kinda already takes care of his revenge "promise" so he'd probably in the fight to make sure Sonic and Co don't undo that.
  • Zavok is probably from sometime in early Lost World simply so that Eggman can easily get him, and the conch he needs to keep Zavok in line. 

Notice that None of these four are at all phased when Infinite shows up, almost like they knew he/she was gonna be there. I assume Infinite is the one doing all the time bending stuff, essentially being this game's Time Eater except being an actual character instead of just some monster.

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37 minutes ago, Johnny Boy said:

I'd be down for this, except Metal has been pretty loyal to Eggman ever since the Metal overlord incident (not counting Free Riders).

Either way there is nothing stopping Metal from another rebelion (or getting reprogrammed for example. Happened in RoL and possibly Rivals 1).

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Nothing would be more satisfying than seeing Eggman lay the smack down on the four villains should they try to betray him. As for Mephiles Infinite, I'm kind of expecting him to merge with one of Eggman's mechs for the final boss... Hopefully with Eggman actually being in the mech. People who are bitching saying Eggman's definitely going to be usurped, what's your proof? We know nothing about this story outside of some theories. All games in the past 5-6 years had Eggman as the final boss.

I'm disappointed that all of those fancy CGI trailers/cutscenes won't be in the game since they have their own designed personal character. They'll probably just swap those gorgeous cutscenes in favor of in-game cutscenes so that your character looks the same. 

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1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

My brother pointed me out something which could be an amazing plot twist, so it probably won't happen.

Shadow, Metal, Chaos and Zavok. What those 4 have in common? That they all popular Sonic some-what bad guys that in the past turned against Eggman.

Would that be a great twist and resonable explanation for this weird team-up? If they weren't here to battle Sonic, but world conquering Eggman? Of course then we would need a contrive reason for them to fight Sonic anyway, this is a video game, but it still would be pretty cool.

So, something like a three-way battle between the Resistance, Eggman, and the other villains? That could be interesting.

1 hour ago, Johnny Boy said:

I'd be down for this, except Metal has been pretty loyal to Eggman ever since the Metal overlord incident (not counting Free Riders).

Well, there's always the likelihood of Zavok controlling Metal to turn him against Eggman.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm starting to think that maybe Infinite doesn't have any time-based abilities, only dimensional ones. Yeah, Silver's around, but that could easily be explained as "future's bad again, so I'm here to help". So the in-game explanation for the returning villains might be that they're all pulled from other dimensions (basically treated as slightly different timelines, like in Lego Sonic Dimensions) by Infinite to assist Eggman.

I think I might also have an idea as to how Eggman conquered the world in record time: he uses his new henchman to keep the heroes distracted (which, since they were all Eggman's top mooks in previous games, their combined abilities prove to be difficult to stop) while he gathers the Chaos Emeralds to prevent Sonic (or anyone else) from easily ending his plans.

Heck, maybe he also takes the Master Emerald to further prevent the heroes from succeeding.

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Just now, Radiant Hero Ike said:

On the subject of Shadow being evil... I wonder if he's just a double agent or something. Infiltrating Eggman's group to get info or somethin'.

Yeah, I was wondering about this. Either that or he's being blackmailed or - as said before - he's SA2 Shadow.

3 hours ago, doctorbenMD said:

Some thoughts:

-Maybe there's multiple dimensions, thus this Classic Sonic is from a different dimension and the one from Generations is "younger Sonic."

-Looks like there's a chaos emerald on the neck of Infinite, hence why at the end of the trailer they show the infinity symbol as an "8"--as in, he's the 8th chaos emerald. But still the dark dick version of the avatar character.

The alternate dimension Classic Sonic is confirmed by Eggman saying as such in the boss battle and Generations' Sonic explicitly being stated to be a younger Sonic (not that that's stopping anyone from whining about inconsistencies...)

I always thought that thing of Infinite's chest was hair like Shadow's (only metallic), but it would be amazing if this theory is correct!

As for the writing, Pontaff translated Colors and Generations but entirely wrote Lost World themselves, so they may be at the helm this time too. That doesn't give me much hope, especially since this has potential to be the biggest Sonic story ever - not to mention the fact that with four of the villains already being established characters (granted Zavok could use more development) it can skip straight to developing the plot itself (and Infinite, of course).

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Despite my misgivings about the context, I do love the idea of a supervillain team-up. IF the writers can provide a satisfactory explanation for the antagonistic Chaos and Shadow; IF the Mephiles cosplayer somehow doesn't look like shit underneath that god awful helmet and IF said character isn't a floating cringefest (and I'm aware that these hopes are becoming progressively more dubious), then there could at least be some entertaining dialogue between them.

Or they won't even address each other, lol. It's a shame that Sonic Team's track record means that I can never get too excited about this sort of thing. So far, it's coming across like an idea scrapped during the concept stage of Generations.

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22 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I feel so sorry for anyone genuinely  excited for this,  because they're gonna get scrutinized so hard lol.

 

Such a welcoming community.

Yeah, this post needs to be put on a poster or something; truer words have never been spoken about this community.

22 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

To you. You even responded to someone that didn't feel that way.

Again, to you. And why should this game "need to stop" when this is trying to appeal to potentially millions of people, including many Sonic fans that aren't even in this online community?

I get that you guys don't like the game, that's fine. But what are you even expecting at this point? You guys have been miserable about this game since the beginning. About everything. Before we even knew its name. It's clear you don't like it and that the news machine hasn't changed that. This has just become a repetitive cycle now.

 

 

This too. Hats off to both of you. I really don't understand why anyone who's convinced this game will be bad still tortures themselves to comment on a thread dedicated to or watch footage of said game. I'm sure E3 gave you much better things to spend your time on and that's not even counting Mania with its own thread on this very forum.

42 minutes ago, Pawn said:

Despite my misgivings about the context, I do love the idea of a supervillain team-up. IF the writers can provide a satisfactory explanation for the antagonistic Chaos and Shadow; IF the Mephiles cosplayer somehow doesn't look like shit underneath that god awful helmet and IF said character isn't a floating cringefest (and I'm aware that these hopes are becoming progressively more dubious), then there could at least be some entertaining dialogue between them.

Or they won't even address each other, lol. It's a shame that Sonic Team's track record means that I can never get too excited about this sort of thing. So far, it's coming across like an idea scrapped during the concept stage of Generations.

I personally like Infinite's design - sure, it's edgy but I don't think Sonic's ever done something like it before. That said I do hope the writers (or writers and localisation if Pontaff aren't writing from scratch) make this work. The press release did point out how weird it was for everyone to be here though so I hope they do in fact do everyone justice.

P.S. THIS is how you do criticism, people: explain why you're worried about something and discuss the good and the bad, not just "this is gonna suck, ST is terrible, etc."

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Say...

What if every time you fight this Infinite character...

You get a piece of him/her to use on YOUR character...?

It seems covered in clothing/armor so...

Maybe you get some type of weird "Infinite" power each time you beat him?

Kind of like what they did in the old Crash Bandicoot series. You beat the boss, get an ability.

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5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Say...

What if every time you fight this Infinite character...

You get a piece of him/her to use on YOUR character...?

It seems covered in clothing/armor so...

Maybe you get some type of weird "Infinite" power each time you beat him?

Kind of like what they did in the old Crash Bandicoot series. You beat the boss, get an ability.

Dude.... If I could dress my Avatar character as Infinite and even on top of that gain some of it's powers... I'd be a very happy Overlord! 8)

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Just now, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Dude.... If I could dress my Avatar character as a Infinite and on top of that gain some of it's powers... I'd be a very happy Overlord. 8)

I'm just thinking that might be how it works, you get to basically "steal" a part of his/her armor each time you fight, with maybe the final fight causing the villain to lose his/her mask revealing his/her identity.

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At first, after watching the trailer, I thought the game was all over the place and was honestly disappointed, but after taking all that in I think it at least make sense. Sonic forces vs Eggman forces, and I have to say I'm happy to see Shadow going against Sonic since, in my opinion, his the only threatening one of the punch.

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I hardly ever take things said by PR at literal face value, but I did read over the descriptions for the characters once again and realized that I completely glossed over what was said about Chaos. 

"Chaos: An ancient power thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure. His return is a mystery."

Somehow it passed me by that they actually acknowledged that he was thought to have been quelled after Sonic Adventure and that the reason he's returned is a mystery.

It's such a little thing but I appreciate it if it actually means something. All this stuff with the dialogue and such is going well towards making me believe they may finally give a tiny bit of a shit about what they're writing. Hopefully.

I don't want to get out of the Middle Zone that I'm currently in right now. I was in the Negative Zone before but I feel comfortable not leaning too far in either direction (though most of the positive stuff I've seen is stuff that would naturally please someone like me who likes the characters, the world, and the story above everything else).

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I hardly ever take things said by PR at literal face value, but I did read over the descriptions for the characters once again and realized that I completely glossed over what was said about Chaos. 

"Chaos: An ancient power thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure. His return is a mystery."

Somehow it passed me by that they actually acknowledged that he was thought to have been quelled after Sonic Adventure and that the reason he's returned is a mystery.

It's such a little thing but I appreciate it if it actually means something. All this stuff with the dialogue and such is going well towards making me believe they may finally give a tiny bit of a shit about what they're writing. Hopefully.

I don't want to get out of the Middle Zone that I'm currently in right now. I was in the Negative Zone before but I feel comfortable not leaning too far in either direction (though most of the positive stuff I've seen is stuff that would naturally please someone like me who likes the characters, the world, and the story above everything else).

THEY might.

Pontaff/Graff, whichever/whoever is doing the localization on the other hand can still do their thing, keep this in mind.

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21 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I hardly ever take things said by PR at literal face value, but I did read over the descriptions for the characters once again and realized that I completely glossed over what was said about Chaos. 

"Chaos: An ancient power thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure. His return is a mystery."

Somehow it passed me by that they actually acknowledged that he was thought to have been quelled after Sonic Adventure and that the reason he's returned is a mystery.

It's such a little thing but I appreciate it if it actually means something. All this stuff with the dialogue and such is going well towards making me believe they may finally give a tiny bit of a shit about what they're writing. Hopefully.

I don't want to get out of the Middle Zone that I'm currently in right now. I was in the Negative Zone before but I feel comfortable not leaning too far in either direction (though most of the positive stuff I've seen is stuff that would naturally please someone like me who likes the characters, the world, and the story above everything else).

Going off my theory that there's an 8th chaos emerald embedded into Infinite, maybe Infinite plucked Chaos from the timeline and Chaos feels the same primal "urge" to be with the emerald as he had in SA1? 

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While I honestly expect the explanation for the villains to be either "plucked from the timeline" or "brainwashing" - the latter feels in many respects more likely, considering that actual time-travel as a plot device in the game would make the apparent retconning of Classic into a different universe even more inexplicable - then I do think there is a chance we might be getting more interesting reasoning, for the simple reason that two out of the four returning villains don't require any new ideas at all to explain why they are on Eggman's side.  Metal Sonic has always been Eggman's creation and henchman, and his one rebellion does not define the character; for Zavok, Eggman already had a means of controlling the Zeti and he merely lost it, so for him to regain it is easily conceivable.  This gives me hope that we're dealing with current Shadow and revived Chaos.

It's also worth noting that the trailer is probably not meant to be literal; the use of Chaos may be very different and not something that requires him to stand around on random bits of debris posing with the other villains, which seems otherwise mysterious.  Though I'll admit to not having the finest grasp of Chaos's characterisation, so who knows.

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http://www.tssznews.com/2017/06/13/e3-2017-sonic-forces-trailer-up-metal-sonicchaos-return-new-villain-confirmed/comment-page-1/#comments

Has anyone posted this link yet? It has a press release saying that Shadow has his own reasons for joining Eggman. Well, it doesn't say that directly but implies it.

Quote

Burbank, California — June 13, 2017 — Today, SEGA® revealed Sonic Force’s exciting new key art along with the latest trailer. The trailer features an all-star cast of Sonic villains and introduces a brand-new powerful, mysterious enemy, Infinite. Infinite joins Eggman’s evil group of henchmen in Sonic Forces which includes Chaos, Metal Sonic, Shadow and Zavok who have already taken over the world and are ready to create next-level panic and disorder.

 

While more about Infinite will be revealed in the future, other villains making an appearance in today’s trailer include:

  • Doctor Ivo “Eggman” Robotnik: The original Mad Genius Doctor, and Sonic’s nemesis. After countless failed attempts, his plan to take over the world seems to finally be succeeding.

  • Chaos: An ancient power thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure. His return is a mystery.

  • Shadow: Once called “The Ultimate Life Form,” Shadow fights for his own reasons. He appeared in Sonic Adventure 2.

  • Metal Sonic: One of the evil doctor’s most powerful creations, Metal Sonic first appeared in Sonic CD, and has returned at a few key moments since.

  • Zavok: The leader of a group known as The Zeti, Zavok is a powerful warrior who was first seen in Sonic Lost World.

 

The official Sonic Forces villains trailer can be found here. The key art as well as a new Sonic Forces concept art can be found here.

From June 13-15, E3 attendees can stop by either the SEGA/Atlus booth at West Hall #4312 or Sega of Europe booth at West Hall #4300 for hands-on opportunities to check out new content from both Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Detective Kaito said:

http://www.tssznews.com/2017/06/13/e3-2017-sonic-forces-trailer-up-metal-sonicchaos-return-new-villain-confirmed/comment-page-1/#comments

Has anyone posted this link yet? It has a press release saying that Shadow has his own reasons for joining Eggman. Well, it doesn't say that directly but implies it.

 

I'm still annoyed by the "seems to be succeeding" part.

That implies that an all too typical thing is going to happen.

Betrayal, AGAIN.

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