Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

[MetalSkulkBane]

37 minutes ago, Johnny Boy said:

I'd be down for this, except Metal has been pretty loyal to Eggman ever since the Metal overlord incident (not counting Free Riders).

Either way there is nothing stopping Metal from another rebelion (or getting reprogrammed for example. Happened in RoL and possibly Rivals 1).

[McGroose]

Nothing would be more satisfying than seeing Eggman lay the smack down on the four villains should they try to betray him. As for Mephiles Infinite, I'm kind of expecting him to merge with one of Eggman's mechs for the final boss... Hopefully with Eggman actually being in the mech. People who are bitching saying Eggman's definitely going to be usurped, what's your proof? We know nothing about this story outside of some theories. All games in the past 5-6 years had Eggman as the final boss.

I'm disappointed that all of those fancy CGI trailers/cutscenes won't be in the game since they have their own designed personal character. They'll probably just swap those gorgeous cutscenes in favor of in-game cutscenes so that your character looks the same. 

[DiamondX]

Well, the CaC is not gonna go everywhere at the same time as Sonic so they might use CGI when he/she isn't there.

[NegaMix]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

My brother pointed me out something which could be an amazing plot twist, so it probably won't happen.

Shadow, Metal, Chaos and Zavok. What those 4 have in common? That they all popular Sonic some-what bad guys that in the past turned against Eggman.

Would that be a great twist and resonable explanation for this weird team-up? If they weren't here to battle Sonic, but world conquering Eggman? Of course then we would need a contrive reason for them to fight Sonic anyway, this is a video game, but it still would be pretty cool.

So, something like a three-way battle between the Resistance, Eggman, and the other villains? That could be interesting.

1 hour ago, Johnny Boy said:

I'd be down for this, except Metal has been pretty loyal to Eggman ever since the Metal overlord incident (not counting Free Riders).

Well, there's always the likelihood of Zavok controlling Metal to turn him against Eggman.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm starting to think that maybe Infinite doesn't have any time-based abilities, only dimensional ones. Yeah, Silver's around, but that could easily be explained as "future's bad again, so I'm here to help". So the in-game explanation for the returning villains might be that they're all pulled from other dimensions (basically treated as slightly different timelines, like in Lego Sonic Dimensions) by Infinite to assist Eggman.

I think I might also have an idea as to how Eggman conquered the world in record time: he uses his new henchman to keep the heroes distracted (which, since they were all Eggman's top mooks in previous games, their combined abilities prove to be difficult to stop) while he gathers the Chaos Emeralds to prevent Sonic (or anyone else) from easily ending his plans.

Heck, maybe he also takes the Master Emerald to further prevent the heroes from succeeding.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

On the subject of Shadow being evil... I wonder if he's just a double agent or something. Infiltrating Eggman's group to get info or somethin'.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

Maybe Eggman's captured rogue and omega and shadow has to play double agent to find out where they are. Hell, where is GUN in all this?

[Amalgamous]

Just now, Radiant Hero Ike said:

On the subject of Shadow being evil... I wonder if he's just a double agent or something. Infiltrating Eggman's group to get info or somethin'.

Yeah, I was wondering about this. Either that or he's being blackmailed or - as said before - he's SA2 Shadow.

3 hours ago, doctorbenMD said:

Some thoughts:

-Maybe there's multiple dimensions, thus this Classic Sonic is from a different dimension and the one from Generations is "younger Sonic."

-Looks like there's a chaos emerald on the neck of Infinite, hence why at the end of the trailer they show the infinity symbol as an "8"--as in, he's the 8th chaos emerald. But still the dark dick version of the avatar character.

The alternate dimension Classic Sonic is confirmed by Eggman saying as such in the boss battle and Generations' Sonic explicitly being stated to be a younger Sonic (not that that's stopping anyone from whining about inconsistencies...)

I always thought that thing of Infinite's chest was hair like Shadow's (only metallic), but it would be amazing if this theory is correct!

As for the writing, Pontaff translated Colors and Generations but entirely wrote Lost World themselves, so they may be at the helm this time too. That doesn't give me much hope, especially since this has potential to be the biggest Sonic story ever - not to mention the fact that with four of the villains already being established characters (granted Zavok could use more development) it can skip straight to developing the plot itself (and Infinite, of course).

[Pawn]

Despite my misgivings about the context, I do love the idea of a supervillain team-up. IF the writers can provide a satisfactory explanation for the antagonistic Chaos and Shadow; IF the Mephiles cosplayer somehow doesn't look like shit underneath that god awful helmet and IF said character isn't a floating cringefest (and I'm aware that these hopes are becoming progressively more dubious), then there could at least be some entertaining dialogue between them.

Or they won't even address each other, lol. It's a shame that Sonic Team's track record means that I can never get too excited about this sort of thing. So far, it's coming across like an idea scrapped during the concept stage of Generations.

[Amalgamous]

22 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I feel so sorry for anyone genuinely  excited for this,  because they're gonna get scrutinized so hard lol.

 

Such a welcoming community.

Yeah, this post needs to be put on a poster or something; truer words have never been spoken about this community.

22 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

To you. You even responded to someone that didn't feel that way.

Again, to you. And why should this game "need to stop" when this is trying to appeal to potentially millions of people, including many Sonic fans that aren't even in this online community?

I get that you guys don't like the game, that's fine. But what are you even expecting at this point? You guys have been miserable about this game since the beginning. About everything. Before we even knew its name. It's clear you don't like it and that the news machine hasn't changed that. This has just become a repetitive cycle now.

 

 

This too. Hats off to both of you. I really don't understand why anyone who's convinced this game will be bad still tortures themselves to comment on a thread dedicated to or watch footage of said game. I'm sure E3 gave you much better things to spend your time on and that's not even counting Mania with its own thread on this very forum.

42 minutes ago, Pawn said:

Despite my misgivings about the context, I do love the idea of a supervillain team-up. IF the writers can provide a satisfactory explanation for the antagonistic Chaos and Shadow; IF the Mephiles cosplayer somehow doesn't look like shit underneath that god awful helmet and IF said character isn't a floating cringefest (and I'm aware that these hopes are becoming progressively more dubious), then there could at least be some entertaining dialogue between them.

Or they won't even address each other, lol. It's a shame that Sonic Team's track record means that I can never get too excited about this sort of thing. So far, it's coming across like an idea scrapped during the concept stage of Generations.

I personally like Infinite's design - sure, it's edgy but I don't think Sonic's ever done something like it before. That said I do hope the writers (or writers and localisation if Pontaff aren't writing from scratch) make this work. The press release did point out how weird it was for everyone to be here though so I hope they do in fact do everyone justice.

P.S. THIS is how you do criticism, people: explain why you're worried about something and discuss the good and the bad, not just "this is gonna suck, ST is terrible, etc."

[Chris Knopps]

Say...

What if every time you fight this Infinite character...

You get a piece of him/her to use on YOUR character...?

It seems covered in clothing/armor so...

Maybe you get some type of weird "Infinite" power each time you beat him?

Kind of like what they did in the old Crash Bandicoot series. You beat the boss, get an ability.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Say...

What if every time you fight this Infinite character...

You get a piece of him/her to use on YOUR character...?

It seems covered in clothing/armor so...

Maybe you get some type of weird "Infinite" power each time you beat him?

Kind of like what they did in the old Crash Bandicoot series. You beat the boss, get an ability.

Dude.... If I could dress my Avatar character as Infinite and even on top of that gain some of it's powers... I'd be a very happy Overlord! 8)

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Dude.... If I could dress my Avatar character as a Infinite and on top of that gain some of it's powers... I'd be a very happy Overlord. 8)

I'm just thinking that might be how it works, you get to basically "steal" a part of his/her armor each time you fight, with maybe the final fight causing the villain to lose his/her mask revealing his/her identity.

[DarkXZA]

At first, after watching the trailer, I thought the game was all over the place and was honestly disappointed, but after taking all that in I think it at least make sense. Sonic forces vs Eggman forces, and I have to say I'm happy to see Shadow going against Sonic since, in my opinion, his the only threatening one of the punch.

[Meta77]

So is infinite a girl ? I'd like a female villain again........and ghost girl  to come back

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Meta77 said:

So is infinite a girl ? I'd like a female villain again........and ghost girl  to come back

I'm just speculating really.

In all honesty Infinite reminds me of...

[Nepenthe]

1 hour ago, Amalgamous said:

Yeah, this post needs to be put on a poster or something; truer words have never been spoken about this community.

This too. Hats off to both of you. I really don't understand why anyone who's convinced this game will be bad still tortures themselves to comment on a thread dedicated to or watch footage of said game. I'm sure E3 gave you much better things to spend your time on and that's not even counting Mania with its own thread on this very forum.

I personally like Infinite's design - sure, it's edgy but I don't think Sonic's ever done something like it before. That said I do hope the writers (or writers and localisation if Pontaff aren't writing from scratch) make this work. The press release did point out how weird it was for everyone to be here though so I hope they do in fact do everyone justice.

P.S. THIS is how you do criticism, people: explain why you're worried about something and discuss the good and the bad, not just "this is gonna suck, ST is terrible, etc."

We need to stop assuming that people who have come away with negative impressions about the game from prior marketing have effectively closed their minds off to any and all information that is revealed after the fact that could change their minds or increase their excitement, and thus they're "torturing themselves" by ironically waiting for news to drop that could potentially sway their impressions because they're keeping an open mind. We need to stop implying that the only people who should be allowed without this kind of finger-wagging to comment on new information that Sonic Team drops are people who were already excited about the game in question. We also shouldn't tell people that there's another Sonic game coming out because this doesn't actually address anyone's grievances with any particular game that they may have issues with. Finally, we should stop acting like the constant fights and moral condemnations towards those who have negative impressions of Forces, and the smug meta commentary on the community in contentious threads like this and the status updates that places the speaker above it all and condemns the community because some members had a negative reaction to a contentious piece of news, are actually doing anything to help the situation.

The perceived problems of SSMB's cynicism are due to multiple things, the biggest of which- the fact that this forum is centered around a franchise whose parent company frequently makes dumb and illogical business and creative decisions with it- is entirely out of our control. Staff cannot do anything about the mere existence of people's honest emotions and reactions, and frankly we're not going to do anything about them. We are not about to forcibly create positive echo chambers for people just because people don't like the extent that other members' disappointment and anger in a given Sonic game. It is up to members to pick up the slack and learn to co-exist with others even if that means ignoring them, and to understand that any communication of a positive opinion is fair game for a negative one- knee jerk emotional reactions, non-constructive posts, all-caps posts, direct quotes, and all. If people can be excited beyond all belief, they can be pissed beyond all belief.

With that being said, I've already outlined in this very thread and in the upcoming rules thread that this kind of moralizing about people with negative opinions is automatically strike-worthy for the foreseeable future for the reasons I've stated and more, so you're getting one automatically on this basis. We're not tolerating this behavior anymore. If you see someone actively breaking the rules, you need to report it. But if your issue is that people are being too negative for your liking, you need to ignore it. We're not going to babysit teenagers and adults.

[Dr. Detective]

I hardly ever take things said by PR at literal face value, but I did read over the descriptions for the characters once again and realized that I completely glossed over what was said about Chaos. 

"Chaos: An ancient power thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure. His return is a mystery."

Somehow it passed me by that they actually acknowledged that he was thought to have been quelled after Sonic Adventure and that the reason he's returned is a mystery.

It's such a little thing but I appreciate it if it actually means something. All this stuff with the dialogue and such is going well towards making me believe they may finally give a tiny bit of a shit about what they're writing. Hopefully.

I don't want to get out of the Middle Zone that I'm currently in right now. I was in the Negative Zone before but I feel comfortable not leaning too far in either direction (though most of the positive stuff I've seen is stuff that would naturally please someone like me who likes the characters, the world, and the story above everything else).

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I hardly ever take things said by PR at literal face value, but I did read over the descriptions for the characters once again and realized that I completely glossed over what was said about Chaos. 

"Chaos: An ancient power thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure. His return is a mystery."

Somehow it passed me by that they actually acknowledged that he was thought to have been quelled after Sonic Adventure and that the reason he's returned is a mystery.

It's such a little thing but I appreciate it if it actually means something. All this stuff with the dialogue and such is going well towards making me believe they may finally give a tiny bit of a shit about what they're writing. Hopefully.

I don't want to get out of the Middle Zone that I'm currently in right now. I was in the Negative Zone before but I feel comfortable not leaning too far in either direction (though most of the positive stuff I've seen is stuff that would naturally please someone like me who likes the characters, the world, and the story above everything else).

THEY might.

Pontaff/Graff, whichever/whoever is doing the localization on the other hand can still do their thing, keep this in mind.

[doctorbenMD]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I hardly ever take things said by PR at literal face value, but I did read over the descriptions for the characters once again and realized that I completely glossed over what was said about Chaos. 

"Chaos: An ancient power thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure. His return is a mystery."

Somehow it passed me by that they actually acknowledged that he was thought to have been quelled after Sonic Adventure and that the reason he's returned is a mystery.

It's such a little thing but I appreciate it if it actually means something. All this stuff with the dialogue and such is going well towards making me believe they may finally give a tiny bit of a shit about what they're writing. Hopefully.

I don't want to get out of the Middle Zone that I'm currently in right now. I was in the Negative Zone before but I feel comfortable not leaning too far in either direction (though most of the positive stuff I've seen is stuff that would naturally please someone like me who likes the characters, the world, and the story above everything else).

Going off my theory that there's an 8th chaos emerald embedded into Infinite, maybe Infinite plucked Chaos from the timeline and Chaos feels the same primal "urge" to be with the emerald as he had in SA1? 

[Salamander]

While I honestly expect the explanation for the villains to be either "plucked from the timeline" or "brainwashing" - the latter feels in many respects more likely, considering that actual time-travel as a plot device in the game would make the apparent retconning of Classic into a different universe even more inexplicable - then I do think there is a chance we might be getting more interesting reasoning, for the simple reason that two out of the four returning villains don't require any new ideas at all to explain why they are on Eggman's side.  Metal Sonic has always been Eggman's creation and henchman, and his one rebellion does not define the character; for Zavok, Eggman already had a means of controlling the Zeti and he merely lost it, so for him to regain it is easily conceivable.  This gives me hope that we're dealing with current Shadow and revived Chaos.

It's also worth noting that the trailer is probably not meant to be literal; the use of Chaos may be very different and not something that requires him to stand around on random bits of debris posing with the other villains, which seems otherwise mysterious.  Though I'll admit to not having the finest grasp of Chaos's characterisation, so who knows.

[Chris Knopps]

...Chaos is enslaved...

...Chaos controls the worlds water...

...An explanation for Green Hill maybe...?

This is going by the Archie canon mind you which said the oceans survived despite the plants split thanks to Chaos holding the ocean in place.

[Detective Kaito]

http://www.tssznews.com/2017/06/13/e3-2017-sonic-forces-trailer-up-metal-sonicchaos-return-new-villain-confirmed/comment-page-1/#comments

Has anyone posted this link yet? It has a press release saying that Shadow has his own reasons for joining Eggman. Well, it doesn't say that directly but implies it.

Quote

Burbank, California — June 13, 2017 — Today, SEGA® revealed Sonic Force’s exciting new key art along with the latest trailer. The trailer features an all-star cast of Sonic villains and introduces a brand-new powerful, mysterious enemy, Infinite. Infinite joins Eggman’s evil group of henchmen in Sonic Forces which includes Chaos, Metal Sonic, Shadow and Zavok who have already taken over the world and are ready to create next-level panic and disorder.

 

While more about Infinite will be revealed in the future, other villains making an appearance in today’s trailer include:

• Doctor Ivo “Eggman” Robotnik: The original Mad Genius Doctor, and Sonic’s nemesis. After countless failed attempts, his plan to take over the world seems to finally be succeeding.

• Chaos: An ancient power thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure. His return is a mystery.

• Shadow: Once called “The Ultimate Life Form,” Shadow fights for his own reasons. He appeared in Sonic Adventure 2.

• Metal Sonic: One of the evil doctor’s most powerful creations, Metal Sonic first appeared in Sonic CD, and has returned at a few key moments since.

• Zavok: The leader of a group known as The Zeti, Zavok is a powerful warrior who was first seen in Sonic Lost World.

 

The official Sonic Forces villains trailer can be found here. The key art as well as a new Sonic Forces concept art can be found here.

From June 13-15, E3 attendees can stop by either the SEGA/Atlus booth at West Hall #4312 or Sega of Europe booth at West Hall #4300 for hands-on opportunities to check out new content from both Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania.

 

 

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Detective Kaito said:

http://www.tssznews.com/2017/06/13/e3-2017-sonic-forces-trailer-up-metal-sonicchaos-return-new-villain-confirmed/comment-page-1/#comments

Has anyone posted this link yet? It has a press release saying that Shadow has his own reasons for joining Eggman. Well, it doesn't say that directly but implies it.

 

I'm still annoyed by the "seems to be succeeding" part.

That implies that an all too typical thing is going to happen.

Betrayal, AGAIN.

[MetalSkulkBane]

4 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

http://www.tssznews.com/2017/06/13/e3-2017-sonic-forces-trailer-up-metal-sonicchaos-return-new-villain-confirmed/comment-page-1/#comments

Has anyone posted this link yet? It has a press release saying that Shadow has his own reasons for joining Eggman. Well, it doesn't say that directly but implies it.

This statement is waaaaay to vague for me to care. (and yes, someone mentioned it earlier)

Judging by all the coments game's final reception will hinge on Shadow's (and partially Chaos) motives.

[Chris Knopps]

6 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

This statement is waaaaay to vague for me to care. (and yes, someone mentioned it earlier)

Judging by all the coments game's final reception will hinge on Shadow's (and partially Chaos) motives.

One is doing whatever because whatever and the other is being brainwashed probably.