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Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

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27 minutes ago, blackherox said:

Just a question but if Infinite is the power that Eggman used to enable world domination, what was (according to earlier descriptions) the 'strange power' that brought classic sonic to the present? So far there's been no mention of timetravel/distortion whatever (that I know) so given the links to Generations I wonder if what were seeing is some off the consequences of Eggman' manipulation of time. Infinte doesn't initially look like just a 'generic monster of the week (e.g. biolizard, doom, iblis) given his design.

If he was, why help Eggman take over the World to this extent? No previous villain (betrayed or no) has actually helped Eggman to the extent that he has ACHIEVED his ambition. Looking at the trailers it looks like Eggman has been in control for quite sometime (How was he able to get this far? were was Sonic?), he may have an ulterior motive but right now I can't see it

I've been assuming its gonna be Zamasu type shit where he brings in more help by pulling in various characters from alternate universes to help take over, and that Classic Sonic was summoned by complete mistake.

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2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

So we are supposed to ignore that he did the impossible and beat Super Sonic?

knuckles did that in sonic 3 lol not impressive

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Someone stepping in for him in the end might take some of the luster off his performance, but lets not pretend that what he does during the game somehow doesn't count because he wasn't the final boss.

it's not that his performance doesn't count; it's that his performance looks less impressive when he just pushed aside by the real big bad in the end. eggman just looks pathetic when that happens

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Thats busted logic right there.

it's not. my argument is that eggman should never be pushed aside by another villain at any point in the game; he should be the big bad the whole time

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

You complain to high heaven when Eggman is the main villain for 99% of the game (Unleashed/SA1) only to be overthrown - but in the same breath you won't give Eggman the credit he is due when he does it to someone else (Lost World).

eggman didn't overthrow the deadly six; sonic had already beaten them by the time eggman resurfaced

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I'd argue that Metal Sonic and Chaos are hardly forgettable... but thats an issue for another day.

 

chaos is memorable. so is metal sonic. not neo metal sonic tho

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

And to that end, I don't see anyone looking to supplant Eggman for his job.

they replaced his job as big bad in the games they appeared in

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

So we are supposed to ignore that he did the impossible and beat Super Sonic?

knuckles did that in sonic 3 lol not impressive

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Someone stepping in for him in the end might take some of the luster off his performance, but lets not pretend that what he does during the game somehow doesn't count because he wasn't the final boss.

it's not that his performance doesn't count; it's that his performance looks less impressive when he just pushed aside by the real big bad in the end. eggman just looks pathetic when that happens

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Thats busted logic right there.

it's not. my argument is that eggman should never be pushed aside by another villain at any point in the game; he should be the big bad the whole time

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

You complain to high heaven when Eggman is the main villain for 99% of the game (Unleashed/SA1) only to be overthrown - but in the same breath you won't give Eggman the credit he is due when he does it to someone else (Lost World).

eggman didn't overthrow the deadly six; sonic had already beaten them by the time eggman resurfaced

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I'd argue that Metal Sonic and Chaos are hardly forgettable... but thats an issue for another day.

 

chaos is memorable. so is metal sonic. not neo metal sonic tho

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

And to that end, I don't see anyone looking to supplant Eggman for his job.

they replaced his job as big bad in the games they appeared in

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4 hours ago, GucciBurr said:

 

the deadly six were still the villains for the most of the game. the eggman final boss just felt shoehorned

 

You sure? Cause the way Eggman explained it as a plan to pretend to be dead was pretty smart. 

I don't understand your logic.

4 hours ago, GucciBurr said:

 

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2 hours ago, GucciBurr said:

knuckles did that in sonic 3 lol not impressive

Oh you are being a total grinch. Super Sonic is a god slayer. Knocking him off would be at the absolute top of anybodies resume. Before the name even. In bold letters too. When he walks into a job interview its not, "hello my name is Eggman" its "I TKO'd God, the end".

 

2 hours ago, GucciBurr said:

it's not that his performance doesn't count; it's that his performance looks less impressive when he just pushed aside by the real big bad in the end. eggman just looks pathetic when that happens

Eggman has had some pretty polished performances though. Between colors, gens and lost world he was wheeling and dealing with the enslavement and the conquering. The last time he's been pushed aside by "the real big bad at the end" was Unleashed. Is this really some trend we even need to be watching anymore?

2 hours ago, GucciBurr said:

it's not. my argument is that eggman should never be pushed aside by another villain at any point in the game; he should be the big bad the whole time

Eggman has been a manipulator since Sonic 3. He's going to make a habit of pulling people who have no quarrel with Sonic into the fray and by doing so he's going to be introducing the possibility for them to go rouge. Its not new, that is just how his character works. The doctor is well established as the main villain. He's almost always the one pulling the strings.

Knuckles was the first MoTW. Whats wrong with following the formula?

 

2 hours ago, GucciBurr said:

eggman didn't overthrow the deadly six; sonic had already beaten them by the time eggman resurfaced

@Joellui beat me to this one. Eggman played dead so Sonic could do his dirty work. Then while everyone was distracted, he set out to take advantage of the unguarded energy supply. He had the master plan all along.

and if you really, REALLY want to get technical, the deadly six did not overthrow Eggman. It wasn't a case of them being too powerful or too evil to control. The Doctor had them 100% in check until Sonic came along and threw a monkey wrench in his plans like he always does. The Deadly six didn't overthrow Eggman, they merely walked through a door Sonic opened, which really shouldn't be any skin off Eggman's nose.

How does Sonic getting in the way make Eggman look like a joke? It shouldn't.

 

 

 

If Infinite outright overpowers/disobeys or walks all over Eggman, it'll be the first time in a while that something like that has happened.

 

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3 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

We don't know enough to know that's the case for Sonic Forces.

i hope it's not but i doubt it

Quote

Wait, what?

gerald robotnik was the main villain in sa2. he was dead, but he was the one behind the ark nearly crashing to earth and the biolizard

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Super Sonic is a god slayer.

that knuckles defeated by simply uppercutting. who cares

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

The last time he's been pushed aside by "the real big bad at the end" was Unleashed.

and the last time he was pushed aside at all was in lost world. recent

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Eggman has been a manipulator since Sonic 3. He's going to make a habit of pulling people who have no quarrel with Sonic into the fray and by doing so he's going to be introducing the possibility for them to go rouge. Its not new, that is just how his character works. The doctor is well established as the main villain. He's almost always the one pulling the strings.

the problem isn't eggman bringing in new lackeys. it's someone else replacing him as the big bad

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Knuckles was the first MoTW. Whats wrong with following the formula?

knuckles did not replace eggman as big bad. he was eggman's pawn the whole time he was a villain

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Eggman played dead so Sonic could do his dirty work. Then while everyone was distracted, he set out to take advantage of the unguarded energy supply. He had the master plan all along.

still didn't overthrow them. what he did had no effect on the deadly six, who had already left

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

the deadly six did not overthrow Eggman.

they did. with help from sonic, sure, but they were still the ones who made the decision to take control of eggman robots and send eggman running.

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Eh, we've derailed this thread enough.

If you're going to slight the Doctors accomplishments to the point where you can just casually make light of outright beating Jesus the Hedgehog Super Sonic of all things then I've got nothin else for ya.

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34 minutes ago, GucciBurr said:

i hope it's not but i doubt it

gerald robotnik was the main villain in sa2. he was dead, but he was the one behind the ark nearly crashing to earth and the biolizard

 

G.U.N. was responsible for bringing Gerald onboard before shutting the project down, killing Maria, locking Gerald up, making him lose his sanity and come up with said plan, and executing him before he literally tell them his plan before he's killed and they still do nothing about it.

Also, let's not forget how they roadblock Team Heroes for most of the game.

27 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Eh, we've derailed this thread enough.

 

Agreed.

 

Which character do you think will fight this time around? (Classic Sonic VS Shadow? Modern Sonic VS Metal Sonic? etc.)

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2 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Which character do you think will fight this time around? (Classic Sonic VS Shadow? Modern Sonic VS Metal Sonic? etc.)

Given that Modern Sonic finds Shadow at the end of his level, I've a feeling he's fighting Shadow again.

Maybe the custom character will fight Zavok or something?

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17 hours ago, Joseph Mello said:

So that means there is going to be an explanation for both Shadow and Chaos. So I'm removing the possibilty of them being there just because "they are bad now".

Not for nothing, but Nakamura wrote 06(Which begs the question, so when ST was reestructured how the hell was he not fired?), so forgive me if I'm doubtful of what he considers a proper explanation.

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6 hours ago, pppp said:

Not for nothing, but Nakamura wrote 06(Which begs the question, so when ST was reestructured how the hell was he not fired?), so forgive me if I'm doubtful of what he considers a proper explanation.

With all of this teasing about the story, I don't believe there is no proper explanation. Also, the chatting on stages have a better plot and tell a better story than every other Sonic game. Why is Tails with Classic Sonic? Why is Sonic trying to find Shadow? Why is the city destroyed? Why Sonic's friends are suddenly an army now? What happend to Sonic? How did Eggman win? Why is Shadow and Chaos evil?  If none of this questions have answers, that's just pathetic after all, the story has been really promising so far. Amy is a freaking agent now. 

He was given another chance to redeem himself, and so far the game looks polished enough. And if it isn't, they will delay it.

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5 hours ago, pppp said:

 Not for nothing, but Nakamura wrote 06 Which begs the question, so when ST was reestructured how the hell was he not fired?

redd-shrug.gifEh, I suppose it's not hard to imagine that his success at SEGA outdid his failures in the yes of whoever as in charge.

And in that industry anyway, writing a crap story wouldn't necessarily get you fired from the game company entirely, especially since he has task other than writing of course.

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Wonder when we will get more news on sonic forces, so far we've had one trailer a month with modern being revealed in March, classic in April, custom character in May, and the e3 trailer in June but classic and custom hero got trailers at the end of their months. so I think our next trailer for the game will be torwards  the end of July. 

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18 hours ago, Bedbug said:

What if its Classic Eggman messing with the timeline?

It's not him. It was confirmed that there will not be any classic iterations of any characters besides Classic Sonic in Forces.

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10 hours ago, pppp said:

Not for nothing, but Nakamura wrote 06(Which begs the question, so when ST was reestructured how the hell was he not fired?), so forgive me if I'm doubtful of what he considers a proper explanation.

Nakamura isn't a writer.

06 was written by Shiro Maekawa. 

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According to the official game credits, Kiyoko Yoshimura and Shiro Maekawa wrote it, with IMDB adding director Shun Nakamura.

I can vaguely remember being told each of those 3 writers were responsible for one of the story lines, Maekawa for Shadow, Yoshimura for Sonic and Nakamura for Silver, but beats me where I got that info. IMDB seems to imply Nakamura is the main general writer, with the other 2 doing the specific dialogue/ specifics.

But whatever. Nakumura also wrote Billy Hatcher's story, Samba Da Amigo's story (?) and possibly Rythm thief.
So can't really say he has a clear cut style to him. And with Forces, we got Warren Graff and possibly Ian Flynn and Ken Pontac taking care of locailzation, so his writing style will be deluded anyway.

 

 

writers.png

writers2.png

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22 hours ago, ZinogreVolt said:

I've been assuming its gonna be Zamasu type shit where he brings in more help by pulling in various characters from alternate universes to help take over, and that Classic Sonic was summoned by complete mistake.

Interesting idea, I wonder if that would involve Blaze.   I do think though that if Eggman were to be 'screwed over' in the end, that it would have happened sooner. From the looks of things, however it happened, Eggman is in complete and total control. With the amount of heroes on Earth, I'm just curious to know how it got so bad and the only thing I can think off is somehow Sonic and Co weren't present for a significant period of time for some reason. I mean whatever power Eggman got a hold off, surely the combined might of Sonic and Co, the chaos emeralds and the human resistance (i.e. GUN) would at the very least mean things wouldn't have gotten this bad? 

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I'm going to throw this out there...

It's very possible that, by meddling with time and space so extremely in Generations, it could be that Eggman incidentally manage to drag Mephiles out of nothingness and the Time Eater somehow managed to merge with him.

As far as the digital/computer look going on, it could be that the technology used to "tame" the Time Eater was warped/corrupted too, in turn making this new hybrid foe the equivalent of one big "Infinite" powered virus.

So, yeah...

Mephiles got dragged out of nothingness in Generations, somehow merged with the Time Eater along with its technology, and here you have Infinity.

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Generations will never ever be dragged out of the "main" series of games simply due to the success and critical acclaim of it.

 

15 hours ago, Mad0Mura said:

It's not him. It was confirmed that there will not be any classic iterations of any characters besides Classic Sonic in Forces.

ahhh ok, who confirmed this?

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Guys still impress me as you try to give some sense of coherence to the sonic lore, Sonic team can throw any stupidity without context and still be canon in the games discuss that does not make much sense from my point of view.

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Why not both? If there isn't some confirmation that confirms that Force's Classic Sonic is both from another dimensions unlike Generations, but all the same he and Modern know each other BECAUSE of Generations in the form of a giant middle finger from the writers. That there is a parallel enough dimension with a Earth/Mobius/Whatever wins the Coin Toss this Time exists that has a Classic Sonic is close enough to the last one to run fast, be a hero and look the same?

 

But despite my attempts to reason it, I'm not oblivious to the fact that canon and Sonic don't go along.

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