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Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

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8 minutes ago, Crazizzle said:

I've been getting a Crisis on Infinite Earths/Zero Hour vibe from this since it was first announced, and that hasn't stopped. This really reminds me of a Comic Book story moreso than I've seen from the franchise before, so consider me intrigued. I also think the gameplay looks like an extension of Colors/Generations which I loved, so I'm down with it.

 One thing that I wonder about: This Infinite character(on the surface) seems like the driving force for the "merging" of worlds and dimensions. Someone that powerful may have made Shadow and Chaos offers they couldn't refuse. What if Infinite can bring Maria back? What if Infinite can bring Tikal back and make it so his past never happened? I have no idea if Sega would go this route, but I'd enjoy it. It's a comic book cliche for a reason. Entice people to your side under (likely)false pretenses.

Or there's the possibility they come back an alt world where Sonic didn't exist. Without Sonic, Shadow and Chaos never reform and nobody stops Eggman, But that's more Wild Fan Guessing than the other scenario.

 I'm sure the writing won't do the concept justice, but I'm not opposed to this.

That's interesting. With Zavok I guess Infinite will bring back the other five D6 members. Maybe he could be an expy of Dr. Faciller? 

 

(And maybe Archie's Sonic is in on this too, to bring back the old timeline).

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Just now, Nepenthe said:

My argument is that his lack of overt altruism does not necessarily translate into a meaningfully antagonistic role towards Sonic due to the character development he's undergone in the games where Sonic Team decidedly gave more of a damn about him.

If we only focus on the games where story was a huge factor, it's abundantly clear that Shadow rarely sees eye-to-eye with Sonic. And again, we don't know much about the plot.

The fact that Shadow believes the world is worth saving doesn't automatically mean the following:

- That he also thinks humans are best left to their own devices rather than controlled with an iron fist. 

- That he can't be deceived into thinking there's a non-nefarious means of getting back Maria (or anything else he might want). 

- That he's incapable of having a different idea of how the world should be saved. 

- That he's not being forced to do this against his will. 

 

With this in mind, I honestly believe that nothing about this game will clash with Shadow's character. 

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Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

The fact that Shadow believes the world is worth saving doesn't automatically mean the following:

"This world is worth saving!

But that Green Hill Zone can just turn to sand! And the Ozone!? Climate change is a myth covefe!"

We're now in bad fan fiction territory with these justifications now.

16 minutes ago, Joseph Mello said:

Maybe Infinite promised Shadow to bring back Maria?

Just when you think the story couldn't be anymore stupid! MARIA!

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2 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

"This world is worth saving!

But that Green Hill Zone can just turn to sand! And the Ozone!? Climate change is a myth covefe!"

We're now in bad fan fiction territory with these justifications now.

What do you got for the other ones? I mean other than the "bad fan fiction" cop-out?

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31 minutes ago, Soniman said:

if the only argument is just the usual "because sonic team sucks" generalization then I have nothing else to say, this why I dont try to debate anymore lol

Look, if your cook screwed your dinner up by overcooking it but then promised to do better next time, only to tomorrow undercook it and continue this cycle for years, would you just keep eternally giving him chances to get it right?

I get giving people a chance, but come on, there has to be a limit. I'm curious, how many more times does Sonic Team need to screw up their stories and characterization before you finally say "I'm done"?

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10 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

If we only focus on the games where story was a huge factor, it's abundantly clear that Shadow rarely sees eye-to-eye with Sonic. And again, we don't know much about the plot.

The very last game in which Shadow had major story relevance, he was significantly in tune with Sonic and the cooperated with nary a complaint. The fact that the game erased itself doesn't mean much either as nothing within their relationship was necessarily dependent upon any factors in the game's timeline. Shadow cooperated and bailed Sonic out of trouble because it's inherently in his present-day character to do so within the situations that call for it, and I would think actual DEFCON 1 would be one such situation.

Quote

The fact that Shadow believes the world is worth saving doesn't automatically mean the following:

- That he also thinks humans are best left to their own devices rather than controlled with an iron fist. 

When has Shadow ever seriously espoused totalitarianism when in his right mind?

Quote

- That he can't be deceived into thinking there's a non-nefarious means of getting back Maria (or anything else he might want). 

He literally and metaphorically threw his past away at the end of ShtH. He also turned down Mephiles' offer to avoid potentially being oppressed by humanity because he's not so selfish as to throw the world under the bus, even for his own presumed well-being.

Quote

- That he's incapable of having a different idea of how the world should be saved. 

When has Shadow not also punched the bad guy at the end of the day?

Quote

- That he's not being forced to do this against his will. 

I've already explained why I feel this is annoying.

Quote

With this in mind, I honestly believe that nothing about this game will clash with Shadow's character. 

I'm not even sure if you fully understand Shadow's character.

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Just now, pppp said:

Look, if your cook screwed your dinner up by overcooking it but then promised to do better next time, only to tomorrow undercook it and continue this cycle for years, would you just keep eternally giving him chances to get it right?

I get giving people a chance, but come on, there has to be a limit. I'm curious, how many more times does Sonic Team need to screw up their stories and characterization before you finally say "I'm done"?

Guess it depends on taste and whether or not you feel that cook really screwed up that much.

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1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

 

When has Shadow ever seriously espoused totalitarianism when in his right mind?

 

Well there was that one time in the comic..... OH NO THAT"S WHAT THAT PICTURE WAS ABOUT

This games real writer is... KEN PENDERS

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Just now, Alienrun said:

Did you consider for a second that maybe this guy doesn't think Sonic Team is doing that bad OR that he's actually impressed with the new footage?

I was trying to get him to see why the people that are skeptic about ST's abilities are like that.

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5 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

The very last game in which Shadow had major story relevance, he was significantly in tune with Sonic and the cooperated with nary a complaint. The fact that the game erased itself doesn't mean much either as nothing within their relationship was necessarily dependent upon any factors in the game's timeline. Shadow cooperated and bailed Sonic out of trouble because it's inherently in his present-day character to do so within the situations that call for it, and I would think a Defcon 1 would be one such situation.

When has Shadow ever seriously espoused totalitarianism when in his right mind?

He literally and metaphorically threw his past away at the end of ShtH.

When has Shadow not also punched the bad guy at the end of the day?

I've already explained why I feel this is annoying.

I'm not even sure if you fully understand Shadow's character.

1. I don't know. Not everything has to have already happened. 

2. Good point. I guess it's not about Maria. 

3. "At the end of the day." Exactly. 

4. So it's an invalid plot idea?

5. What does that even mean? Get off your high horse. 

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Sonic Forces, with each passing trailer, gameplay footage and detail, is becoming more and more the game I wanted when I was 16 years old.

From the edgier story, the "banding of the villains," the nostalgic pandering, all of Sonic's friends taking part to the custom fancharacter. I'd have drooled over this like a madman. The story is definitely something I'm curious about this time, but everything is leaving a bad taste in my mouth now.

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3 minutes ago, pppp said:

I was trying to get him to see why the people that are skeptic about ST's abilities are like that.

Bit of advice. Just telling people something is bad and that a company is allegedly constantly screwing up,  is not the best way of entry on that venture. 

Needs more detail for starters. 

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