Sonic Forces E3 Trailer "The Next Generations" *Huge Spoilers in OP

[pppp]

Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Bit of advice. Just telling people something is bad and that they're constantly screwing up,  is not the best way of entry on that venture. 

I don't remember asking for your advice.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

K buddy. 

Lol well if you seriously think your suggestions are not crap fan fiction alright then.

 

Basically. Shadows characterisation in every game he's been in is the opposite to your suggestions.

I've seen on Twitter people desperately trying to justify this by brining up Shadows game as evidence that he does what he wants...

Lol no he doesn't! That game let's you be evil and do what you like. But there is only 1 right path which is the hero path. His own game let's you know this as does the following game.

Furthermore. It makes absolutely no sense given how he's been the hero in every other title and has not once ever swelled on "MARIA" since because guess what.

Maria is sooooo 2005. Nobody cares about her anymore, unless you're going to provide back up to the whole "MARIA appreciation society."

And if Shadow is being manipulated by the big bad who can raise the dead... Lol oh wow he's even more stupid than Knuckles is!

[Alienrun]

3 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I feel so sorry for anyone genuinely  excited for this,  because they're gonna get scrutinized so hard lol.

 

Such a welcoming community.

Oh trust me I know what I'm getting into, I've accepted my standards for Sonic stories is quite different from other people's, but I still understand that we should be aiming higher. This game will hopefully be a "happy accident" of sorts but it might not and that's a fair bar to set...

 

Also you guys should stop bringing up the "Shadow wants to save Maria" thing, cause its clearly not happening. Shadow would have done that in 06 if he wanted to, HE COULD TIME TRAVEL ON HIS OWN FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Shadow has put his past behind him, he wouldn't put the world in danger just to save himself or his friend, he doesn't even remember her that much since StH, He denied Mephilis's offer so why not Infinite?

Him being pulled from SA2 is much more likely, even if that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Badnik Mechanic]

4 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

this is trying to appeal to potentially millions of people, including many Sonic fans that aren't even in this online community?

Jack of all trades. Master of none.

[Drunk Michael Myers]

Outside of the Modern Sonic gameplay, everything looks so bad. Good Lord. We are back in the dark times of with 3D Sonic games again. 

[Shiny Gems]

Just now, Joellui said:

That's very true. Complaining all the time is not being productive, especially when it's about the smallest and pettiest things about the game.

Agreed. I find constant whining over the smallest things to be mentally unhealthy, really. I'd say that some of us are too picky and specific in what we want in a Sonic game, which is not necessarily a good thing because it limits one's ability to enjoy a game like Forces. If the game were more like Mania, would those people like it a lot more? Either way, liking a game only if it is like something like the classics or Mania is not the way to go, for being more open is a better thing. Aside from that, whatever the reason for disliking and what people want, whining about the smallest of things is not the way to go.

[ShadowSJG]

It says Shadow fights for his own reasons in this...

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Mayor D said:

Jack of all trades. Master of none.

You know whats going to appeal to millions. 

Mania. 

Its a 2d sonic game that you fight eggman. That's it. No other bullshit, you fight eggman, Sometimes you should just do 1 thing, really good. 

[MadmanRB]

Indeed as Mania is back to basics which is a good thing.

MAKE SONIC GREAT AGAIN!

[Balding Spider]

6 minutes ago, Drunk Michael Myers said:

Outside of the Modern Sonic gameplay, everything looks so bad. Good Lord. We are back in the dark ages of with 3D Sonic games again. 

Oh come on, need I remind you of all the BS those games had? By comparison so far Forces dosen't even come close to those lows.

And besides Sonic Boom was your gateway back to the dark ages. Lost world too now that I think about it.

[Nepenthe]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

"At the end of the day." Exactly. 

What are you talking about? Shadow takes the same approach to saving the world as everyone else does.

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

So it's an invalid plot idea?

Not invalid. It's just disappointing to the point of being aggravating, and I don't want to have to settle for that.

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

What does that even mean? Get off your high horse. 

It means I don't agree with your interpretation of Shadow's character and subsequently any of the justifications you had for him being antagonistic towards Sonic under these specific circumstances.

[Alienrun]

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Agreed. I find constant whining over the smallest things to be mentally unhealthy, really. I'd say that some of us are too picky and specific in what we want in a Sonic game, which is not necessarily a good thing because it limits one's ability to enjoy a game like Forces. If the game were more like Mania, would those people like it a lot more? Either way, liking a game only if it is like something like the classics or Mania is not the way to go, for being more open is a better thing. Aside from that, whatever the reason for disliking and what people want, whining about the smallest of things is not the way to go.

You do realize that just because we nitpick everything doesn't mean we can't enjoy what we are bashing on right?

I personally am probably going to enjoy the heck out of this game for all its crazy ideas!

...That doesn't mean its well put together or inspiried by any sort of love that isn't artificial...or that its gonna be more competent than Odessey or Breath of the Wild. (I'm not even a Mario or Zelda fan and I can admit that.)

[Whatever the WhoCares]

The moving goalposts are amazing to watch. 

Fan 1: Shadow has no reason to be antagonistic. It's obvious that the writers didn't bother to draw on his history and just made him the bad guy because that's what he used to he!

Fan 2: (brings up valid ways for Shadow to be an antagonist that tie into his traits as a character as demonstrated in past games)

Fan 1: Ok fine but those sound like sooo stupid!!11

[SSF1991]

11 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I feel so sorry for anyone genuinely  excited for this,  because they're gonna get scrutinized so hard lol.

 

Such a welcoming community.

Seriously.

The sad thing is that it's not even "differing opinions' anymore. It's just beating a dead horse, at this point.

[Shiny Gems]

1 minute ago, Alienrun said:

You do realize that just because we nitpick everything doesn't mean we can't enjoy what we are bashing on right?

Well, that is possible, but that is still what I call unhealthy behavior. In way, like I said, it can be limiting, too. Enjoy a game or not, there are reasons why complaining about the smallest things is not the best way to go.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Fan 1: Ok fine but those sound like sooo stupid!!11

Shadow fan: Well I could actually address the counter points but I urm... goalposts!

[MadmanRB]

Oh come on feel the hatred flow through you, the dark side is strong and has cookies

 

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

The moving goalposts are amazing to watch. 

Fan 1: Shadow has no reason to be antagonistic. It's obvious that the writers didn't bother to draw on his history and just made him the bad guy because that's what he used to he!

Fan 2: (brings up valid ways for Shadow to be an antagonist that tie into his traits as a character as demonstrated in past games)

Fan 1: Ok fine but those sound like sooo stupid!!11

You didn't actually do that, though. Basically the only halfway reasonable explanation you gave was if he wasn't doing it of his own free will, which means it's not actually a matter of his character traits.

[Milo]

That Forces E3 trailer was...something else. And by something else, I mean "what the hell was that?" I guess this really supposed to be some sort of sequel to both Adventure and Generations.

Shadow's now an antagonist again? Chaos is back? Zavok (and the rest of the D6 I guess, though not shown) survived? And with Metal Sonic with them too, I guess it means they're all on Eggman's side?

And there's this another new villain with the name Infinite? I thought this was going to be about taking the world back from Eggman? Unless that's how Eggman took over, and so I guess --as par for the course-- this new villain is going to be the another monster of the week everyone will have to stop?

This is going to be the Batman V Superman of the Sonic series. An oversaturated, incoherent mess. 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, Mayor D said:

Shadow fan: Well I could actually address the counter points but I urm... goalposts!

I did address the counter points. The ones made by Nepenthe... who then of course resorted to "nah-uh" rhetoric. Just like you. The fact that I haven't addressed any of your points relates exactly to this: you never devolved into brainlessness. It's all you offered to begin with. 

[Nepenthe]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

The moving goalposts are amazing to watch. 

Fan 1: Shadow has no reason to be antagonistic. It's obvious that the writers didn't bother to draw on his history and just made him the bad guy because that's what he used to he!

Fan 2: (brings up valid ways for Shadow to be an antagonist that tie into his traits as a character as demonstrated in past games)

Fan 1: Ok fine but those sound like sooo stupid!!11

That's not really what happened at all, particularly since you conceded on a few of the points I've given concerning how Shadow has been written, but if you want to strawman the debate like that, you do you.

Just now, SSF1991 said:

Seriously.

The sad thing is that it's not even "differing opinions' anymore. It's just beating a dead horse, at this point.

Are people not allowed to vocalize any disappointment or negative opinions whatsoever?

Plenty of people were willing to give this game a chance, especially with the promise of E3 blowing the lid off of more things that could have been more interesting and cool and more palatable. Plenty of people have also been fair in noting some of the cool and positive things about the game every time something new has dropped; I know I've been one of them. Plenty of people have also ultimately concluded that this game will, at worst, be mediocre, and at best be a ridiculous time that'll be entertaining the first time through.

If you don't want people talking about their honest feelings about new information as it drops, I don't know what to tell you.

[Drunk Michael Myers]

2 minutes ago, Balding Spider said:

Oh come on, need I remind you of all the BS those games had? By comparison so far Forces dosen't even come close to those lows.

The Custom Charachter gameplay looks so simple. Theres like 8 enemies in a row everywhere and all you have to do is hold R2 or wathever so blast them with a flamethrower. Wheres the challange? Nothing. And the Classic Sonic gameplay is just a bad emulation of what once was good. And the level design is so boring. Just alot of straight lines. It might not be as bad as Shadow or 2006, bud it's gonna be the dullest Sonic 3D game since heroes.

[Nepenthe]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

I did address the counter points. The ones made by Nepenthe...

And I refuted your counters. So.

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

who then of course resorted to "nah-uh" rhetoric.

Just because you couldn't counter my points doesn't mean I reiterated a fundamental disagreement.

[SSF1991]

6 minutes ago, Drunk Michael Myers said:

We are back in the dark times of with 3D Sonic games again. 

What?

The last "dark times" of 3D Sonic games involved games that were universally panned by critics and fans alike, games that were so glitchy, poorly designed, and borderline unplayable that it very nearly killed the Sonic brand for good.

I don't think it's "dark times" because a game came out that you don't like.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, Nepenthe said:

That's not really what happened at all, particularly since you conceded on a few of the points I've given concerning how Shadow has been written, but if you want to strawman the debate like that, you do you.

Are people not allowed to vocalize any disappointment or negative opinions whatsoever?

Plenty of people were willing to give this game a chance, especially with the promise of E3 blowing the lid off of more things that could have been more interesting and cool and more palatable. Plenty of people have also been fair in noting some of the cool and positive things about the game every time something new has dropped; I know I've been one of them. Plenty of people have also ultimately concluded that this game will, at worst, be mediocre, and at best be a ridiculous time that'll be entertaining the first time through.

If you don't want people talking about their honest feelings about new information as it drops, I don't know what to tell you.

Except I only conceded on one of the points, and healthily countered the others. Shadow is not necessarily a believer in freedom for everyone. Just himself. Every time there was a dilemma, it was between destroying the world and saving it. Now it has to do with shaping it in Eggman's vision.