Sonic Forces Impressions

[TheOcelot]

23 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

Polygon preview

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/6/16/15813036/sonic-forces-non-sonic-stages-might-be-its-best

Polygon have also just uploaded a playthrough of the modern, classic and OC stages. The graphics really do look gorgeous, especially in the Modern Sonic stage.

I agree with the article, the OC gameplay is by far the most interesting thing about Forces at the moment.

[Bobnik]

22 minutes ago, OcelotBot said:

 

 

At 4:40-ish OC ran through the loop without using a boostpad...

Then WHAT IS THE POINT OF A -- ugh, this is annoying.

I mean, it's not really a dealbreaker, but it's just really annoying. Like, if a character can go through the loop without a boostpad before it, then why is the boostpad there to begin with?

I do agree with the preview tho - Custom looks to be a more interesting gameplay, purely on something that it hasn't really been done before in a franchise. Will it be good? Who knows. Can't wait for the release.

[Blue Blood]

11 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

At 4:40-ish OC ran through the loop without using a boostpad...

Then WHAT IS THE POINT OF A -- ugh, this is annoying.

I mean, it's not really a dealbreaker, but it's just really annoying. Like, if a character can go through the loop without a boostpad before it, then why is the boostpad there to begin with?

I do agree with the preview tho - Custom looks to be a more interesting gameplay, purely on something that it hasn't really been done before in a franchise. Will it be good? Who knows. Can't wait for the release.

Similarly, if the character can't get through a loop without a boost pad, then the loop shouldn't be their either. This all comes down to Sonic Team not really knowing how to put together levels and physics. Their game design ethos sucks.

But yes, I also have to agree. At least the custom hero is offering me something new. I've tired of the unchanging boost games, or weak attempts to emulate Classic gameplay.

[StaticMania]

The boost pads are there to give the feeling of them not being automated...even though they obviously are.

[ZinogreVolt]

17 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The boost pads are there to give the feeling of them not being automated...even though they obviously are.

Wait, wouldn't they want to remove the boostpads if that were the case?

Anyway, my impressions of Sonic Forces have certainly improved. Modern Sonic, Classic Sonic and Original the Character all look fun to play, if pretty simple. I'm looking forward to this game.

[Plasme]

Yeah, this looks really promising. It feels good to finally be proud to be a Sonic fan again .

Hopefully the good impressions keep up and the game gets reviewed well. If Sonic Team get a good critical concensus on this we could hopefully cememnt the Boom gamestyle moving forward. The future of 3D Sonic finally looks consistently bright!

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, ZinogreVolt said:

Wait, wouldn't they want to remove the boostpads if that were the case?

No they wouldn't, they've been doing it for years.

[Shiny Gems]

Has anyone posted this yet?

http://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/sonic-forces-preview-guilt-free-pleasure-e3-2017/

EDIT: And this?

https://www.cgmagonline.com/2017/06/16/sonic-forces-e3-preview-the-next-era-of-3d-sonic/

[Chris Knopps]

Wooowah woah woah woooaaah...

I'm just now noticing that. There are NO lives in this game?

...Oy veh. Okay.

[Celestia]

It might just be a demo thing, but I'm fine either way. Lives became more and more worthless in the post-arcade era, and the few non-Mario/Sonic platformers you see nowadays tend to not bother with them. It's no surprise to see even the few long-running platformers still around starting to let lives systems go.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

If I recall correctly, Mario Odyssey doesn't have lives anymore either. You just lose coins or something.

That was actually one of Rise of Lyric's merits (yes, they exist). It didn't give you any "game over restart the level artificial difficulty hahaha" bullshit if you died too much. It just took off some rings.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Celestia said:

It might just be a demo thing, but I'm fine either way. Lives became more and more worthless in the post-arcade era, and the few non-Mario/Sonic platformers you see nowadays tend to not bother with them. It's no surprise to see even the few long-running platformers still around starting to let lives systems go.

But that's another punishment lost. How much more easier do we need these franchises getting?

I like feeling a LITTLE bit above a babbling monkey when I play games. Mario is bad enough with recent easy/invincible modes and now Sonic is losing the lives system. I thought the rings vanished instantly was a great punishment until I just realized lives are gone, now it doesn't matter since you can lose as much as you want and always keep going on.

It's like I said though... Whatever I suppose.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

It's not real punishment though. Dying is the punishment in and of itself. You still have to redo a bunch of things, there's no reason to layer an arbitrary second punishment ontop of the first one. It's minimizing inefficient and cheap game-lengthening tactics that have plagued the industry ever since you stopped having to constantly input quarters to get more tries at a game. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

It's not real punishment though. Dying is the punishment in and of itself. You still have to redo a bunch of things, there's no reason to layer an arbitrary second punishment ontop of the first one. It's minimizing inefficient and cheap game-lengthening tactics that have plagued the industry ever since you stopped having to constantly input quarters to get more tries at a game. 

Boost games tend to NEED that though, it certainly helped sprawl out Unleashed and Colors for me.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

They don't need lives. I hardly ever got gameovers in the boost games anyway, which is part of the reason they're pointless.

Hell, you yourself are constantly complaining that supposedly the boost games are supposed to not have artificial lengthening, except you're using it to rag on actual level design instead of things that are really unnecessary. Make up your mind, huh?

[Wraith]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Boost games tend to NEED that though, it certainly helped sprawl out Unleashed and Colors for me.

Where the hell are you dying in colors? lol

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Josh said:

Where the hell are you dying in colors? lol

Some parts were tricky for me. Don't judge. -.-

3 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

They don't need lives. I hardly ever got gameovers in the boost games anyway, which is part of the reason they're pointless.

Hell, you yourself are constantly complaining that supposedly the boost games are supposed to not have artificial lengthening, except you're using it to rag on actual level design instead of things that are really unnecessary. Make up your mind, huh?

Well... Your skill level is good for you, however you being good at the series and not needing lives yourself does not give reason nor' excuse not to include them.

Via poor choices in stage design like the way things are drawn out more often than not in 2D sections of 3D boost games. Lives however are a staple since the series origination that I actually like and/or expect. It's a traditional aspect, not a design issue.

[Dejimon11]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Where the hell are you dying in colors? lol

....I'll admit when I first played Colors I got several game overs....

[Shaddy Zaphod]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

It's a traditional aspect, not a design issue.

Then it's a shitty tradition? It's a bad thing, bottom line. Sonic games are already easy, but lives and game overs just add an extra layer of tedium to the players who are bad enough at the games for them to matter, and trying to claim that a bad idea is okay in the name of tradition is basically the furthest you can get from the idea of progression in design and mentality.

"We should stop sacrificing virign women to giant snakes! It doesn't actually cure disease!"

"What!? But that's the way we've always done things! We have no reason to stop!"

Besides, lengthening the time you play a game isn't worth a thing when the extra time you spend is all just sluggishly redoing things that were easy enough for that player to get past in the first place. If your artificial lengthening isn't fun, there's no reason to include it at all. That's why the werehog was so revilved, and why Colors is better than Unleashed.

And even if dull repetition of easy levels was fun why should people who suck at the game get privilege of a longer playthrough over those of us who are actually good? Surely if it was actually fun to die and repeat things you just did, it would be seen as a reward, not a punishment, right?

(it would, but that sort of logic is actually genuinely insane in the first place, so I can forgive anyone who follows it for not understanding that)

[Celestia]

If anything, abandoning lives might encourage the designers to actually challenge players more.

Besides, even when the games were tougher and game overs were...slightly more likely (I can't say even from Adventure thru Unleashed it happened to me more than maybe a handful of times, but I digress), it was still pretty pointless. You don't have to start the whole game over, understandably enough, just the stage you left off at. It's such a mild punishment that you might as well get rid of the lives system...and here we are. (Possibly. Like I said, could just be a demo thing.)

And something else I realized after making my previous post: Sonic games already encourage you to Not Die with the ranking system.

[Milo]

12 minutes ago, Josh said:

Where the hell are you dying in colors? lol

Colors is a notably easier game compared to other Sonic games, but the game does have its moments. The game can get really obnoxious with its 2D sections with its platform hopping over large bottomless pits, namely if you're going for Red Star Rings. It doesn't help that Sonic's jump in that game is really floaty, so it doesn't really allow for tight aerial movement.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Still, going for Red Rings in Colors is already grindy and requires a lot of tedious replaying of levels anyway, so.

[StaticMania]

Dying is the only penalty the player needs as encouragement to get better...

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Then it's a shitty tradition? It's a bad thing, bottom line. Sonic games are already easy, but lives and game overs just add an extra layer of tedium to the players who are bad enough at the games for them to matter, and trying to claim that a bad idea is okay in the name of tradition is basically the furthest you can get from the idea of progression in design and mentality.

"We should stop sacrificing virign women to giant snakes! It doesn't actually cure disease!"

"What!? But that's the way we've always done things! We have no reason to stop!"

Besides, lengthening the time you play a game isn't worth a thing when the extra time you spend is all just sluggishly redoing things that were easy enough for that player to get past in the first place. If your artificial lengthening isn't fun, there's no reason to include it at all. That's why the werehog was so revilved, and why Colors is better than Unleashed.

And even if dull repetition of easy levels was fun why should people who suck at the game get privilege of a longer playthrough over those of us who are actually good? Surely if it was actually fun to die and repeat things you just did, it would be seen as a reward, not a punishment, right?

(it would, but that sort of logic is actually genuinely insane in the first place, so I can forgive anyone who follows it for not understanding that)

You kind of sound like you're trying to turn this into a rant fest about things you detest in the franchise and are on a fine line of pushing your opinions as facts...

Try to keep in mind the difference between the two if you please.

There are simply some forms of punishment I find enjoyable to a degree, and loss of lives and/or game overs is simply one of those things. I find it more awkward to remove it than the ability to pick back up rings you lose.

Punishing you for losing your rings by taking them away off the bat makes little sense to me if there are no lives anyway and you just go back a few seconds in the stage, it makes the game too easy and too fast to beat to me.

Kudos for you heralding the removal of lives, but as a fellow Cranky Kong-er I'mma just wave my cane at you.

[Wraith]

Have you considered that the ring system change was to compensate for the removal of lives?