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Sonic Forces Impressions


Badnik Mechanic

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2 minutes ago, Josh said:

Have you considered that the ring system change was to compensate for the removal of lives?

It's possible, but like I said, I see it as unnecessary.

I suppose perhaps you use rings to buy stuff for your OC so losing them can be punishing in THAT sense as they're needed for more outfits and stuff, but...

I don't know... I feel like I'm going to miss lives and/or game overs. Just me though, I'm a weird guy.

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I guess my point is that the lives system doesn't really qualify as a decent punishment anymore. Even putting aside that game overs don't force you to start a new game, modern platformers (Sonic included) that do bother to have lives are very generous with them. It's become normal to end a Mario or Sonic game with the max number of lives without even really trying. Because of this I can't even really complain if they include lives, but when I look at something like that I can't help but think 'well, why even include this system in the first place?' That's unnecessary.

Tradition just isn't a good enough reason for me, tho' I can totally understand being attached to abstract stuff like this. Hell, part of me is sad to see lives go just because I liked getting something for every 100 Rings (or coins, or whatever). But they could just as easily come up with some other reward for that.

Also RE: incentive for keeping Rings: again, S Ranks. :V Though there's also probably a shop for custom character stuff so yeah, there's that too.

...Speaking of which, and on another note, I'm kinda surprised we didn't get a look at the character creator here. That was one of the things I was expecting from their E3 showcase. I mean, I assume the game has presets--especially in show floor demos--but I was still expecting it in one of the stream demonstrations or something, yet as far as I can remember we didn't see it at all. Wonder if they'll show it off during one of the Sonic official streams or something.

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34 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

You kind of sound like you're trying to turn this into a rant fest about things you detest in the franchise and are on a fine line of pushing your opinions as facts...Try to keep in mind the difference between the two if you please.

No I'm not, just because I happen to use swear words doesn't mean anything. I do that for everything.

There is a such thing as objective view in game design, and lives are an element that gaming as a whole has pretty obviously shown to be outdated. You can find reviews of Rayman Legends and Mario Galaxy that praise and criticize those exact elements in each game respectively. 

And might I add, you're nobody to talk about pushing opinions as facts, and I don't take nicely to you trying to police my posts for such.

39 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

There are simply some forms of punishment I find enjoyable to a degree, and loss of lives and/or game overs is simply one of those things. I find it more awkward to remove it than the ability to pick back up rings you lose.

Okay, but I'm not saying that removing the ability to pick up dropped rings is a good thing. And moreover, if by your measure, death is an acceptable artificial game-lengthening technique, why would you shy away from something that makes it easier to die? And why are you now going on rants about why not being able to pick up rings is a bad thing when you just said it was less awkward than the lives system.

Whatever, just consider my response an echo of Josh's and celestialestiminia's. And for god's sake learn to multiquote

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14 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

you're nobody to talk about pushing opinions as facts, and I don't take nicely to you trying to police my posts for such.

Pointing it out as I see it. I'm not innocent of this myself, I know. And I'm sorry you don't, so I apologize for pointing it out.

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death is an acceptable artificial game-lengthening technique, why would you shy away from something that makes it easier to die? And why are you now going on rants about why not being able to pick up rings is a bad thing when you just said it was less awkward than the lives system.

I'm not ranting about it. I just don't think you're paying attention properly. I have said that removing rings was a good thing initially as it's a good form of harsher punishment, but with the lives system gone, it seems strange to me, but as I just mentioned in response to @Josh, it's possible the loss of rings is punishing instead in a sense that you need them to buy stuff for your OC.

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god's sake learn to multiquote

There you go. Hope this looks better.

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Pushing you further toward death is still a punishment, and death is still a punishment, though. It's not negated by the lack of a lives system anymore than losing health in any other game without one is.

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2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Pushing you further toward death is still a punishment, and death is still a punishment, though. It's not negated by the lack of a lives system anymore than losing health in any other game without one is.

I suppose it could be compared to BotW in a way, as Forces puts you back to a checkpoint whereas BotW puts you back at a save point without any particular lives system.

Nonetheless, it's an awkward sensation for me in a Sonic game. Some are fine, and even happy with lives being gone, others will question it and want them, like myself. There's always going to be two sides to every fence.

Just stuck in the past in my own way I suppose...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Automatic sections in Sonic games completely suck and I get why this game never won awards. I want a Heroes style game again :(

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On the whole lives argument, I have to agree on all the arguments AGAINST lives. The problem with lives is the only point they had is for arcades (and for when there weren't save systems to keep your progress). Nowadays, lives are completely and totally pointless.

Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze is another big example of this. The game is hard as hell, but you never run out of lives because you're constantly getting them over and over again. Even when you lose 20 lives on the hardest levels, you gain them back trying to continuously beat the levels over and over again (referring to the Temple levels, mostly, which you unlock for all KONG letters).

 

The next DKC game needs to find something better to do with bananas and drop lives all-together. And I'm glad Mario has dropped lives because they're pointless now. Same with Sonic.

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5 minutes ago, JaidynReiman said:

On the whole lives argument, I have to agree on all the arguments AGAINST lives. The problem with lives is the only point they had is for arcades (and for when there weren't save systems to keep your progress). Nowadays, lives are completely and totally pointless.

Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze is another big example of this. The game is hard as hell, but you never run out of lives because you're constantly getting them over and over again. Even when you lose 20 lives on the hardest levels, you gain them back trying to continuously beat the levels over and over again (referring to the Temple levels, mostly, which you unlock for all KONG letters).

 

The next DKC game needs to find something better to do with bananas and drop lives all-together. And I'm glad Mario has dropped lives because they're pointless now. Same with Sonic.

Donkey Kong Country doesn't have automatic sections that are unchallenging. 

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5 minutes ago, memoryman3 said:

Automatic sections in Sonic games completely suck and I get why this game never won awards. I want a Heroes style game again :(

Oh hey you're the Daisy fan from GameXplain comment section ( I guess), welcome!

 

A Heroes styled game again would be really good, I just think they could remove some of the slower paced puzzles from it..

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1:55, momentum to traverse slope. omg, sonic forces saved. 

also - "WE BROKEN THROUGH ENEMY LINES"....

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I honestly found it lazy that the animations for characters talking on the radio is just them opening and closing their mouth over and over and it doesn't even sync up to their voice.

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1 minute ago, Sgt Jack V said:

I honestly found it lazy that the animations for characters talking on the radio is just them opening and closing their mouth over and over and it doesn't even sync up to their voice.

At least they are expressive, that's what matters the most to me. Is not like Runners...

maxresdefault.jpg

When we had to see that recycled Tails render from 2008 as the portrait for him.

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3 hours ago, Sgt Jack V said:

I honestly found it lazy that the animations for characters talking on the radio is just them opening and closing their mouth over and over and it doesn't even sync up to their voice.

If it's lazy here, then it's lazy in every game that does it.

 

It doesn't even matter...

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8 hours ago, A cool hedgehog engine said:

It looked like the player was having a really hard time.

And still came dangerously close to earning an S rank.

They need to make the grading system less lenient. You shouldn't be nabbing S-ranks so easily IMO.

 

 

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9 hours ago, A cool hedgehog engine said:

It looked like the player was having a really hard time.

It looks like this comes from a couple things:

* The lighting wisp light-dash-thing looks like you have to hold down the button to work it, and they just kept pressing it instead.

* The whip seems really unwieldy, and the player was spamming the fuck out of it. It looks like it just pushes you forward, but that's gonna make 3D sections awkward with additional degrees of movement. I think I'll opt for the flamethrower, personally.\

* I guess you gotta approach grapple points from certain angles to get it to work right. Maybe it's realistic, maybe it's awkward, maybe it'll be totally superfluous and not an actual problem for anyone with common sense, we'll have to wait and see.

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

And still came dangerously close to earning an S rank.

They need to make the grading system less lenient. You shouldn't be nabbing S-ranks so easily IMO.

You're not wrong, but I honestly don't see a lot of harm as long as there's still a numerical score. It's not like getting an S-rank on a level does anything for you beyond what another rank gives you (ie nothing), so if people are using it as bragging rights, it doesn't matter much. If it's a "get all S-ranks to unlock something special" situation, then I guess it could be problematic, but if this game is linear enough for people to not want to replay stages like they seem so inclined to say, nobody'd want anything other than an S their first time anyway.

 

Plus, I still get angry at remembering having to do well on Unwiished stages to get more medals, and that shit's tedious.

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This ride never ends.

6VCZF6A.png

 
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None of it is truly disastrous - and it is, of course, only a small section of the final piece - but it most definitely is disappointing. A small tragedy? Not really - just a sign of things moving on. The one truly tragic thing about another potentially disappointing Sonic from Sonic Team is someone in their mid-thirties complaining about it. Over 26 years the series has maintained its popularity and earned new fans, even if the games have struggled to appeal to more mature palettes, and when you find yourself listening to a talking crocodile bemoaning the number of robotic death eggs he has to deal with, maybe it's time to accept that this just isn't for you any more.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-07-06-maybe-its-time-for-us-to-leave-sonic-teams-take-on-its-series-behind

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Lightning's attack is definitely very janky. Don't get why it has to move your avatar forward whenever you use it, especially since the range seems decently long / wide? EDIT: At least your character stays still if you move it while standing, but like...that just highlights how unnecessary it is.

I actually like how the light dash / attack works though. That you can stop it by letting go of the button, I mean.

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