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Sonic Forces Impressions

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21 minutes ago, Speedi said:

That's good that they tightened the controls, because platforming with Modern Sonic is really hard with his super high acceleration and floaty jump. 

Also Sasuke is my favorite Sonic The Hedgehog character.

 

Lol, I've been on too many Naruto forums. I meant Sonic, not Sasuke, but I hope you didn't catch that.

It likely won't be enough considering the boost formula naturally makes platforming difficult to begin with.

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You know...

The past few days, I've had this in mind...

Sonic Mania is a title with old and new content, the same as Forces, and both are made to cater to the past and different fans...

But the problem with Forces is how it feels like Sonic Team is groaning the whole way through the game. Kind of like an "Ugh... We have to cater to THESE fans..." sensation...

The enemy is as generic edge as you can get, like an amplified Shadow, and the music in the game just feels like it's trying to be Adventure-esque without any real love/care put into it...

Forces feels like something Sonic Team is "Forcing" itself to put out, like there's no fun or passion behind it.

The whole thing LOOKS like it's catering to different fans, especially Adventure fans, but it's doing so in a way that seems... Shallow/hollow basically.

It's hard to explain but Mania has something in it that Forces is lacking...

The former WANTS to cater to the fans it's going for, but the later feels like it's doing something it HAS to do without any option...

I just don't feel the same thing from Forces as I feel from Mania, it's like a body without a heart.

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On paper I think Forces is like, its like Adventure games, lots of variety in gameplay styles, but they ALL play like Sonic in three different flavours. More Sonic flavours in one game than ever. I think that was the thought process.

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2 minutes ago, ChikaBoing said:

On paper I think Forces is like, its like Adventure games, lots of variety in gameplay styles, but they ALL play like Sonic in three different flavours. More Sonic falvours in one game than ever. I think that was the thought process.

Yes, and thanks to that it's being touted as pointless.

And not only are there three "Sonic" styles, you literally have two Sonic's, again, and a third option that's "Pretty much Sonic" basically. A random "something" created by the player.

If the game was the "Good ol' Trio" like Mania, maybe it would feel different, but as it stands, it's just another thing making people ask "Why?" about the game.

My old man for instance literally asked "Why are there three Sonic's?" and he's friggin' 73 years old and knows it's pointless.

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The more I see the weapons and how they're utilized the less organically designed into the levels they feel. They can't make the enemies block weapons because it'll mess with the flow and not feel Sonic like. But then they just put hordes of enemies in your way to justify them existing just to get killed in one shot. Outside of the wisps that don't need weapons to be used anyways, they really don't seem too well integrated into the level design.

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If there's one thing Sonic Colors, Generations and Lost world taught me, is that the first levels don't do a good job showing you what the level design and general gameplay feel will be for most of the game. So I'm still holding out judgement until I see footage from the third and fourth zone.
(Figures Sonic Forces refuses to show any footage beyond the opening stages, unlike Mania.)
But yeah, it is dissapointing Sonic Team doesn't immediatly quell concerns and proves they know their craft right out of the gate. Let's just hope Forces really is like Generations , with the levels opening up and become a little smarter later on.
 

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On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 3:11 PM, ChikaBoing said:

On paper I think Forces is like, its like Adventure games, lots of variety in gameplay styles, but they ALL play like Sonic in three different flavours. More Sonic flavours in one game than ever. I think that was the thought process.

That's moreso because 3D forces the developers to create new gameplay styles and reuse assets to crank out content much easier given the nature of Sonic's speed. It's not meant to be like the Adventure games, it's literally because Sega has literally no solution to this problem that arose from entering 3D.

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7 hours ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

That's moreso because 3D forces the developers to create new gameplay styles and reuse assets to crank out content much easier given the nature of Sonic's speed. It's not meant to be like the Adventure games, it's literally because Sega has literally no solution to this problem that arose from entering 3D.

I actually dont think the background in Classic Sonic were anymore taxing than Modern Sonic in Generations. 

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13 hours ago, ChikaBoing said:

I actually dont think the background in Classic Sonic were anymore taxing than Modern Sonic in Generations. 

That's not necessarily the point that I was making and I hope you aren't insinuating that creating a 3D game isn't more intensive and taxing than creating a 2D Sonic game. I can't say this is certain, but based on what I've heard, Miyamoto claimed that creating a 3D Mario game was significantly harder simply because there are numerous possibilities in where Mario can jump due to the Z-axis. The same pertains to Sonic and this logic behind that premise makes sense. Factor in the spin-dash (in the Adventure games, Shadow the Hedgehog, and 06) and you have many possibilities to account for with what was original a simple function since he could only roll left and right before.

Point is, making 3D Sonic games is significantly more taxing to the point where even the most rudimentary functions in Sonic is significantly harder to create which explains why there's a recurring trend of reusing assets through various different gameplay styles in almost, if not, every 3D Sonic game created. After 06, I doubt that the Forces team really made this game with an Adventure mindset since they're trying to play it safe and design it akin to Colors and Generations. 06 did use various gameplay styles and seemed as if it was trying to recreate the Adventure days, but there were various explicit design choices that denote this including the Hub World and Wave Ocean Orca Whale (for instance) whereas Forces plays nothing like the Adventure games at all. I doubt they made this with Adventure in mind. After 06, this is the last thing they'd want to worry about.

 

 Edit: Honestly at this point, I wish Sega was ambitious in how they wanted to flesh the game out with more content by integrating the Chao Garden and actually incorporating online multiplayer since that is something a mainline Sonic game has ever done before. Focus on just hammering out Modern Sonic's gameplay and his gameplay style only and then fleshing the game out with an interesting hub world, chao garden, and online multiplayer and I bet that would be 10x better than incorporating other gameplay styles that actually overshadow Modern Sonic and his 3D gameplay.

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On 7/29/2017 at 0:51 PM, -Ace- said:

Didn't really know where to post this, but we got gameplay from the China Digital Entertainment Expo (China Joy)

It's the same gameplay we've already seen but we probably got the best playthorugh of the Green Hill (Custom Hero) level.

 

 

That's STILL the ONLY content they have to show from this game?

I still can't help but remember how glitchy the props were in the background of Classic's stage in Green Hill, primarily the clipping/crumpling trees...

If this thing doesn't get delayed it will be a miracle.

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19 hours ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

Honestly at this point, I wish Sega was ambitious in how they wanted to flesh the game out with more content by integrating the Chao Garden and actually incorporating online multiplayer since that is something a mainline Sonic game has ever done before. Focus on just hammering out Modern Sonic's gameplay and his gameplay style only and then fleshing the game out with an interesting hub world, chao garden, and online multiplayer and I bet that would be 10x better than incorporating other gameplay styles that actually overshadow Modern Sonic and his 3D gameplay.

Custom Character with the Wisps and customization is actually fleshing it out, not unlike the Chao Garden.

 

 

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5 hours ago, ChikaBoing said:

Custom Character with the Wisps and customization is actually fleshing it out, not unlike the Chao Garden.

 

 

Fleshing it out in context means adding content to the game and the Chao Garden certainly does that. Not only does it incentivize players to replay levels, but there were hidden goodies like animals that players could explore the level for in order to find them which would add some replay value as well. Implementing a hidden area for this is certainly great for a game that flourishes from some openness and multiple pathways and would certainly add some substance to the game as well. Hell, the Chao Garden always had hidden goodies that can be obtained through Chao Race/Chao Karate, so this can be used to net red rings or hidden artwork.

In what way would a Chao Garden not flesh out the game by adding content? I'm not denying that the Custom Character fleshes out the game, but it literally brings very little new to the table that Modern Sonic would not be able to bring at all.

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I'd say the chao gardens are too isolated from the main game to really count as fleshing things out. In part because it's a one way system; you grind stages for animals/drives to raise your chao, but raising your chao doesn't affect how you play the main game. On top of that collecting animals/drives is a pretty shallow expansion of the main gameplay anyway, and the slow, grindy nature of raising chao isn't a good match for fast-paced Sonic gameplay. As it is chao gardens are a whole tangle of systems that don't really mesh with what Sonic is about.

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Ive still yet to learn what the word edge means to some besides a badass villian that knows he is a badass and not a run of the mill joke most villians become .

And the music is perfect. Sorry its not the 100th remix of chemical plant to get that nostalgia blood boiling.

I am going into this expecting this game to get a 6.5 to a 7.5 honestly but regardless Ill still love it. I see it keeping me busier than mania honestly which will probably have the entire game beaten within 2 hours of the first person to leak a early released copy online.

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3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

I'd say the chao gardens are too isolated from the main game to really count as fleshing things out. In part because it's a one way system; you grind stages for animals/drives to raise your chao, but raising your chao doesn't affect how you play the main game. On top of that collecting animals/drives is a pretty shallow expansion of the main gameplay anyway, and the slow, grindy nature of raising chao isn't a good match for fast-paced Sonic gameplay. As it is chao gardens are a whole tangle of systems that don't really mesh with what Sonic is about.

There are a few ways how that problem could be fixed. Chao Gardens haven't been around for a while but there are a few ways you could improve them. For example they could have you complete specific objectives in stages in order to collect animals, items, materials, ect, there are a few ways you can have them without the grinding element and integrate them in to the game better. They're not an entirely sour idea, and not to mention Chao Gardens are wildly popular.

3 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I am going into this expecting this game to get a 6.5 to a 7.5 honestly but regardless Ill still love it.

I can't help but feel this type of mindset is very harmful.

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i'm actually really excited for this game! i haven't bought a main title 3d game since this is the year i actually got back into the series. so i'm super excited, hopefully this game gives me everything and serves some modern sonic teas. i'm really excited about the oc (mainly to see all the edgy ones posted on deviantart) and also to see some of the old faces back and have at least a semi important role. idk i've just been getting super hyped so i think i'll end up enjoying it even if it's getting mixed reception right now.

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10 hours ago, Hottub said:

There are a few ways how that problem could be fixed. Chao Gardens haven't been around for a while but there are a few ways you could improve them. For example they could have you complete specific objectives in stages in order to collect animals, items, materials, ect, there are a few ways you can have them without the grinding element and integrate them in to the game better. They're not an entirely sour idea, and not to mention Chao Gardens are wildly popular.

You could intergrate the Chao itself into gameplay. Like as abilities, in Secret Rings, Gens etc.

Outside of the Chao petting/evolution itself, we have had elements of the Chao Garden in Sonic games since SA2. Grinding, buying stuff at the store etc.

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How about this...

Add a Chao Garden...

Raise the Chao...

They help you in stages by following you ala Sonic Advance 2 the way Cheese aided Cream, attacking enemies around you and being able to do more based on how far they've been raised.

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