Sonic Forces Impressions

[JosepHenry]

3 hours ago, Mr. Armstrong said:

This ride never ends.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-07-06-maybe-its-time-for-us-to-leave-sonic-teams-take-on-its-series-behind

Is not mature enough for a man in mid-thirties cuz a CROCODILE IS TALKING TO ME!!! TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME

[Solly]

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The one truly tragic thing about another potentially disappointing Sonic from Sonic Team is someone in their mid-thirties complaining about it.

Sweet, I'm only in my mid-twenties. I've got another decade left in me, guys. 

[Sonikko]

I've just watched the Nintendo Life video and the guy just looked like he said whatever people wanted to hear about Forces. The game is bad, it's too automated and all that stuff we've been saying since the first reveal, BUT, he then goes on to say that Colours is the greatest 3D Sonic game and that even the 3D sections in that game were good.

I mean. Ok. You're not wrong for liking something, Colours in this occasion, but shitting on Forces and then saying Colours is the greatest 3D Sonic game ever is a bit contraddictory.

Colours is barely 3D, 80% of it is 2D and I'm not even going to go in detail on why I think it's not a bad game but a bad Sonic game for sure.

If modern Sonic peaked at Colours for you, then I don't see why you should hate Forces, since it's doing more of the same and of all the modern games Colours is the one that looks closest to Forces.

 

[Graystripe2000]

He did explain some of his views a bit more. 

 

[Bobnik]

9 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

I've just watched the Nintendo Life video and the guy just looked like he said whatever people wanted to hear about Forces. The game is bad, it's too automated and all that stuff we've been saying since the first reveal, BUT, he then goes on to say that Colours is the greatest 3D Sonic game and that even the 3D sections in that game were good.

I mean. Ok. You're not wrong for liking something, Colours in this occasion, but shitting on Forces and then saying Colours is the greatest 3D Sonic game ever is a bit contraddictory.

And this is pretty much my main problem with his preview. Like, the same problems he's listing for Forces in Modern gameplay department are also in Colours.

1 minute ago, Operationgamer17 said:

He did explain some of his views a bit more. 

I don't remember Tropical Resort act 1 having multiple paths.

[AstroSeedP]

Guys, guys, we were tricked. The real name isn't "Sonic Forces," it's:

Spoiler

 

"Sonic 2017"!!!

 

All joking aside, I finally made up my opinions so far of this game.

I'll start out by saying that I actually do believe I'll like this game when it comes out based on all the info, but I can't say that I won't be disappointed somewhere.

Nothing so far has really "wowed" me. It's just been a mix of "ok" to "yeah, I think I'll like that." The only thing that has given me some sort of surprise is the OC gameplay style, but even then it's not something completely out of the ball park. 

I'll definitely agree that this game looks to be very safe so far; nothing really that will push the series forward much. 

Even saying "the music is great" has become sorta meaningless, at least to me.

Like I said, I'll probably end up enjoying the game, but coming from someone who had a lot of fun playing Black Knight, I'm not sure how others will feel.

All in all, it's a case of hope for the best, but expect the ok. 

[Dr. Detective]

I guess I can sort of understand a bit where that man in the article is coming from, even if I don't agree with it at all.

I'm not entirely sure why the talking animals is that big of a sticking point though. Is Sonic really the only video game franchise out there that's doing something like this? 

I suppose it's the most high profile one but we couldn't have gotten SO oversaturated with games that aren't just for kids that a talking crocodile bemoaning the fact that he's gotta deal with a bunch of Egg-Shaped death machines is really... THAT odd right? 

...Have we?

[ChikaBoing]

Random podcast on YouTube says controls feel pretty tight and good.

 

[Sega DogTagz]

11 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Plus, I still get angry at remembering having to do well on Unwiished stages to get more medals, and that shit's tedious.

Well, Unleahsed Wii is a different beast. It tied story progression to stage mastery - having you go back and earn the higher ranks necessary to unlock the requisite numbers of medals to progress to the next area. In a situation like that, I could see the benefit to playing the ranking system on more of a curve. Having to replay stages you don't like in order to secure that A or S rank is no fun for anyone, and at worst can be seen as little more than padding.

Forces doesn't seem to fall into that. We haven't seen any sort of paywall tied to stage scores or ranks. So it baffles me why the scoring system seems to be so lenient. That player got rocked in that playthrough. He lost all his rings multiple times, including taking some hits on the back end of the stage. Since he spent some time experimenting and struggling, we know his time bonus shouldn't have been anything special. But lo and behold, the game basically gave him an A+ for his efforts. That basically tells me that if you manage to make it to the finish line without dieing then you get an A. Thats total bunk.

They set the bar too low.

 

[Cornelius Fudge]

While I understand the premise of Alex Olney's opinion, I have to disagree with it since he also emphasized how Sonic Color's 3D sections were good as well relative to Forces when Colors falls victim to the same problems Forces is having such as overwhelming linearity in addition to obtrusive automation in its 3D sections. I would also disagree with the notion that Color's design isn't present in Forces because it very much is including more confined 3D sections of straight-up boosting and how the game's design is literally structured around the wisp capsules where even an absence of wisps tells us that they don't want us to boost which is evident when they design slower, 2D generic platforming around that ideology. Outside of the wisps, I don't really see how Modern Sonic is really any different though I do applaud Sonic Team for making Forces Sonic control somewhat faster and smoother in 2D sections from what I could see.

[Tracker_TD]

For convenience's sake (and because @Tenko mentioned it in the other thread), I've collected the recent burst of impressions articles in one place.  

Eurogamer - "Maybe it's time for us to leave Sonic Team's take on its own series behind"

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To my surprise and delight, one of 2017's very best video games is made by none other than Sonic Team. Yup, that Sonic Team - the developer formerly known as Sega AM8, the one behind behind Sega's iconic mascot and the very same studio that's been by the hedgehog's side through the good times and the bad.

You will likely not be surprised to discover, however, that that game is not Sonic Forces. Not unless something special happens between now and launch, that is.

NintendoLife - "Running Scared from Sonic Forces"

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Sonic Team, for the longest time, seems to think that Sonic is all about speed. To be fair that’s what all the marketing for the original games was pushing, but in reality speed in Sonic is a reward for playing well, not the standard staple of each game in the series (in terms of the old school classics, at least).

And so you can probably tell where we’re going with these first impressions. Yes, we’ve played Sonic Forces and yes, it’s just what you’d expect if you're a pessimist. It's a modern Sonic game that disappoints at nearly every turn. We played three different levels with three different characters, namely Modern Sonic, Classic Sonic, and the infamous custom-created Avatar.

NintendoLife also put out this video preview, that's wound up incurring a heaping helping of... salt.

Metro - "Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces hands-on preview and interview – ‘The focus is on old school fans’"

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The production values are fairly high, with decent graphics, but the 3D sections still seem as imprecise as ever. To the point where you only seem to need to point Sonic in roughly the right direction to succeed. The demo level did get harder as it went along, but we never felt fully in control – and a lot of the obstacles appeared to come and go without any real inconvenience.

The same is true of the 2D sections, which compare poorly to Sonic Mania. For a start, the view is zoomed out too far, so that you’re often squinting to make out what’s going on, but the controls also aren’t as tight and it doesn’t even seem to be as fast.

All of which sounds quite critical, but our complaints our only in comparison to the excellence of Sonic Mania. Sonic Forces seems fine really: family-friendly junk food compared to the fine dining of Mania.

This article also includes an interview with Iizuka, which has its own topic to boot. 

VG247 - "Sonic Forces is rough to the point of being comical – is there any way to save Sonic Team’s soul?"

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On paper it should’ve been a no-brainer. Sonic Generations was good, and so a simple sequel to that game seems like a strong idea. The idea to finally let Sonic fans create their own characters in-game is a stroke of genius considering how fans have been doing that for years already (google your name the hedgehog and check the results). But somehow, inexplicably, Sonic Forces so far feels worse than Generations.

In the classic Sonic level I play there’s something floaty to his jumps and generally loose to his movements that doesn’t feel right. The modern Sonic gameplay seems less finessed than Generations, back to some of the pitfalls the series was making back when it first tried this format of gameplay in Unleashed.

The level I play of the new avatar character is guilty of some of the worst enemy design I’ve seen in ages, presumably thus to facilitate the fact the avatar character might have one of a few different abilities depending on how players choose to kit it out.

AppTrigger - "E3 2017: Sonic Forces escapes the city, not its past"

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It took me some time to put my finger on just what it was I didn’t like about Sonic Forces. I played two stages. The first was the opening city level we’ve seen in trailers, a familiar playstyle from prior 3D Sonic titles. The second was a 2D platforming level controlling one of the customizable characters, though I didn’t actually get to mess around with the customization features. But the conclusion I finally came to after playing Sonic Forces for a bit is this: neither really feels much like Sonic to me.

By necessity, Sonic must go fast, yet in the city level I constantly felt the need to slow myself down to deal with some obstacle. The path he moved on was mostly linear, as opposed to divergent and dynamic with many levels and options for passing difficult obstacles. Auto-targeting made dispatching enemies simple…perhaps too simple. There was really little left for me to do but run forward and occasionally stop to hit an attack button. There was no puzzle to it, and little skills required or taught.

Waypoint - "Mario vs Sonic in 2017 is looking mightily one-sided"

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Sonic Forces, based on everything I've played so far—one three-dimensional level as Sonic, running through a city in the middle of a robotic invasion, replayed again as a whip-lashing custom avatar; and a classic-styled 2D boss fight against a twin-staged Robotnik with a penchant for chucking bloody great rocks the way of Sega's speedy mascot—is not good. Like, really not good. Like, potentially a genuinely bad game in waiting. Like, I have been watching everything I can of it, reading articles by the dozen, and have sat down with people from Sega about it, and I still cannot fathom who the heck this game is for.

God is a Geek - "Sonic Forces has an electric whip, and is a confused game"

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Here’s a brief list of things that Sonic games don’t need: blind-firing from cover, a cameo appearance from Ezio, self-assessment tax return mini-games, an electric whip, a flamethrower.

Hey, guess what! Sonic Forces has an electric whip. It also has a flamethrower. Both are part of Sonic Forces’ Avatar Mode, where you get to create your own character. If you’ve always wanted to play Sonic as a rabbit creature wearing a camo tank top and breathing mask, torching enemies with a flamethrower, now you can. Same if you’ve always thought Sonic would be better if you could play as a cream-coloured bat wearing pink shoes and a sports visor, cracking an electric whip at Robotnik’s forces.

If it sounds confusing, it’s because Sonic Forces itself is a confused game. Like Sonic Generations, this has ‘Classic’ Sonic levels (strictly 2D platforming affairs) along with ‘Modern’ Sonic (3D outings that switch between racing in and out of the screen along with 2D platforming sections).

WCCF Tech - "Sonic Forces Hands-On - Thoroughly Forced"

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f you’ve played a 3D Sonic game released this decade, then you already know exactly what to expect. Sonic will, for the most part, run from left to right (massive shock, I know) while jumping over spikes and attacking enemies. It’s not a complicated formula, but somehow, Sega is managing to get it wrong. Sonic’s Homing Attack, which has been present since his debut in 3D gaming, feels awful – having to wait for a target to appear on each enemy before you homing attack them slows down progress considerably, and the speedy dash doesn’t feel as responsive or immediate as it should.

The brown, disgusting coffee-filtered cityscapes are massive, but possibly one of the dullest things I’ve had to look at in a Sonic, well, ever. It is an absolute universe away from the candy-themed levels in Lost World, most assuredly, and doesn’t improve much when the camera flicks behind Sonic’s back, where suddenly Sonic is essentially running in four lanes you can switch between – and that’s definitely not a good solution to the modern behind-the-back style of Sonic gameplay.

Trusted Reviews - Sonic Forces Preview

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Being punished for circumstances you can’t predict, and the constant chore of stopping and starting, remains as tiresome as it did in 2003’s Sonic Heroes. Control is often taken away from you, too, and set pieces are presented through a wildly choppy frame rate. Platformers are at their best when you’re rewarded for tight precision and exploration. Sonic Forces clasps your hand like an overbearing parent and seldom lets go.

Last up are the Avatar stages, which harbour a surprising amount of potential.At first I was optimistic, hoping my new weaponry would alleviate previous frustrations. I was wrong. The Avatar stages play almost exactly like the aforementioned Modern playgrounds, with all the disappointment in tow. It’s a shame, and I desperately hope the customisation tools are refined since they currently feel broken. By holding down the ZR button I sent out a constant stream of lightning that killed everything in my path, essentially making me invincible.

Stevivor - Sonic Forces Preview - "If It Ain't Broke, Don't Break It"

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Custom characters also have access to gadgets or weapons such as a flamethrower and an electric whip. This has a pretty major impact on how the game is played. Using weapons rather than spinning through enemies or using a homing attack on them slows down gameplay. That would be fine but this is a Sonic game — you want it to be fast.

Avatar mode is the closest to something new in Forces, but much like the rest of the game, it feels like it needs a lot more polish. It seems like a late edition to the game purely to have a point of difference from past titles. It could turn out to be the best thing about Forces but for now, it feels like it needs some work to make it feel like a real fit. [...]

Sonic Forces isn’t slated for release until the holiday season 2017 on Windows PC, Xbox One, PS4 and Switch, so there is still time (and room) for improvement. I wasn’t expecting much from a new 3D Sonic game and I can’t say I’m surprised to be so underwhelmed.

The Inner Circle - Preview: Sonic Forces

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What’s perplexing to me is that I have a hard time believing any of these demo levels are the full affairs. All of them are too short to stand out on their own; this is especially true with Classic Sonic’s demo level, which is just a boss fight. You can’t sell me on a portion of the game with just a boss fight, guys! The other stages at least have a couple minutes of length to spare, but it still doesn’t feel like enough. For example, Modern Sonic’s stage is about as linear as Sonic’s levels in Sonic Adventure 2, meaning you’re going down glorified hallways that may have another small path every now and then. I have a good feeling the full version of the stage would feature a lot more, but I can’t tell because the demo wouldn’t ensure that it is whole. [...]

Lastly, I think it’s worth noting I played the Playstation 4 version of the demo. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous, and there’s so much detail in the environments Sonic and co. traverse on! The silky-smooth 60 FPS framerate is a pleasant touch as well. If only the Nintendo Switch version could harness that. I didn’t play the Switch demo, but…oof. From what I saw of it at PAX, it looked like it was struggling to be at the same framerate as Sonic Generations on consoles. I heard whispers that the framerate will be improved for the Switch release; all I can say is that I really hope it’s true.

So those are my impressions from the Sonic Forces demo. I am still optimistic for what’s to come, but the optimism isn’t without its concerns. Hopefully, Sonic Team knows what they’re doing.

Those are the ones I've seen. Could've missed a few but it seems most impressions went up back around E3 to begin with. 

[Indigo Rush]

22 hours ago, Bobnik said:

I don't remember Tropical Resort act 1 having multiple paths.

Go back with the Drill and Laser Wisps unlocked.

Like, I'm not the biggest fan of Sonic Colors by any means, but I'm not going to pretend it didn't have any thought put into its level design.

[Graystripe2000]

44 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

NintendoLife also put out this video preview, that's wound up incurring a heaping helping of... salt.

IKR? The guy even got what seems to be a death threat. 

 

[Bobnik]

12 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

For convenience's sake (and because @Tenko mentioned it in the other thread), I've collected the recent burst of impressions articles in one place.  

I guess European outlets are more disappointed by the game than Amercan outlets, which is a little bit weird. What's weirder is that what they consider as problems here, were also present in Colours and Generations, yet these are one of their favourite Sonic games. What's even WEIRDER is the comments on control aspect of Modern Sonic. Here they mostly say it's worse than Generations because of Sonic being more loose, yet in most American outlets (and from some youtubers that played the game) it's said that it's better for the exact same reason. 

I do like how they're not pulling out "Classic Sonic is the best part of the game" card tho, Classic being in Forces is still one of the main negatives I have for this game.

It is concerning that european outlets go for more negative previews, but impressions are not reviews and the game is still months in the making, so whatever. And eh, the game still looks fun to me.

36 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Go back with the Drill and Laser Wisps unlocked.

Like, I'm not the biggest fan of Sonic Colors by any means, but I'm not going to pretend it didn't have any thought put into its level design.

I'm not really a fan of stages locking different paths behind power-ups that are unlocked later in the game, but I guess you're right.

[Graystripe2000]

That is odd, but I guess it's one of those things that just happens.

[Soniman]

Maybe I'm crazy but did anything change between the E3 Demo and today? I just find it really strange were suddenly getting all these negative previews out of the blue when the initial  E3 impressions weren't nearly this bad.. 

For the record I'm not trying to call the legetimacy of these previews into question, I'm just confused where this is suddenly coming from 

[Cornelius Fudge]

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

Go back with the Drill and Laser Wisps unlocked.

Like, I'm not the biggest fan of Sonic Colors by any means, but I'm not going to pretend it didn't have any thought put into its level design.

Well, he still has a point because it's still very linear and simplistic in 3D.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Maybe I'm crazy but did anything change between the E3 Demo and today? I just find it really strange were suddenly getting all these negative previews out of the blue when the initial  E3 impressions weren't nearly this bad.. 

For the record I'm not trying to call the legetimacy of these previews into question, I'm just confused where this is suddenly coming from 

Probably cause an embargo went up or something.

[MegasonicZX]

13 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Maybe I'm crazy but did anything change between the E3 Demo and today? I just find it really strange were suddenly getting all these negative previews out of the blue when the initial  E3 impressions weren't nearly this bad.. 

For the record I'm not trying to call the legetimacy of these previews into question, I'm just confused where this is suddenly coming from 

I find that at E3 no one ever really posts any negative impressions of anything until a bit later, don't know why but its the trend I notice.

[Indigo Rush]

9 minutes ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

Well, he still has a point because it's still very linear and simplistic in 3D.

I was under the impression we were discussing the boost formula as a whole, not in it's 2D or 3D components separately.

[Graystripe2000]

16 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Maybe I'm crazy but did anything change between the E3 Demo and today? I just find it really strange were suddenly getting all these negative previews out of the blue when the initial  E3 impressions weren't nearly this bad.. 

For the record I'm not trying to call the legetimacy of these previews into question, I'm just confused where this is suddenly coming from 

Those sites probably didn't have time to post their previews during E3.

[Ayliffe]

22 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Maybe I'm crazy but did anything change between the E3 Demo and today? I just find it really strange were suddenly getting all these negative previews out of the blue when the initial  E3 impressions weren't nearly this bad.. 

Dunno if it made that much of a difference, but by the sounds of things the most recent demo was on the Switch... the version that performs the worst outta the platforms they're releasing Forces on. It wouldn't have made a difference to the majority of their criticism, but 30FPS with drops certainly wouldn't have helped matters.

[Soniman]

Just now, Ayliffe said:

Dunno if it made that much of a difference, but by the sounds of things the most recent demo was on the Switch... the version that performs the worst outta the platforms they're releasing Forces on. It wouldn't have made a difference to the majority of their criticism, but 30FPS with drops certainly wouldn't have helped matters.

Considering the complaints of the previews were related to how the core gameplay is designed witht he Switch's performance being the cherry on top, I doubt it.

[Milo]

Another negative preview, from AppTrigger: Sonic Forces escapes the city, not its past

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It took me some time to put my finger on just what it was I didn’t like about Sonic Forces. I played two stages. The first was the opening city level we’ve seen in trailers, a familiar playstyle from prior 3D Sonic titles. The second was a 2D platforming level controlling one of the customizable characters, though I didn’t actually get to mess around with the customization features. But the conclusion I finally came to after playing Sonic Forces for a bit is this: neither really feels much like Sonic to me.

...

So, fears confirmed on this one: after fifteen minutes with Sonic Forces, I feel that it’s going to fall squarely in the category of average platformer. Normally for something like this, I’d say that fans would still fall head over heels for it just for the sake of its mascot, but I’m not sure that’s true for the Sonic community. Well, at least we get to make our own Sonic OCs, right?

I dunno why, but I'm actually a bit shocked a fair amount of the press seem to be on the same page as the fans who aren't sold on this product (myself included) for once.

[Graystripe2000]

I have not heard of that site before.