Sonic Forces Impressions

[Tracker_TD]

Added it to the compilation post for the sake of completeness.

8 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

I have not heard of that site before. 

...and? 

[Cornelius Fudge]

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

I was under the impression we were discussing the boost formula as a whole, not in it's 2D or 3D components separately.

The 3D sections are a part of the reason why the boost gameplay's execution in Colors wasn't up to snuff to begin with. It's a valid complaint.

[Graystripe2000]

1 minute ago, Tracker_TD said:

Added it to the compilation post for the sake of completeness.

...and? 

And nothing. Just stating that I've never heard of the site before.

[Indigo Rush]

2 minutes ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

The 3D sections are a part of the reason why the boost gameplay's execution in Colors wasn't up to snuff to begin with. It's a valid complaint.

Congratulations.

We were talking about alternate paths in general. We could talk about how bad the 3D is, if you really wanted to, though.

1 minute ago, Operationgamer17 said:

And nothing. Just stating that I've never heard of the site before.

Okay?

[Cornelius Fudge]

1 minute ago, Indigo Rush said:

Congratulations.

We were talking about alternate paths in general. We could talk about how bad the 3D is, if you really wanted to, though.

Okay?

That's nice and dandy, but it's still a valid complaint when that's only present in the 2D sections save for a few areas.

[Indigo Rush]

2 minutes ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

That's nice and dandy, but it's still a valid complaint when that's only present in the 2D sections save for a few areas.

You're right, they're only in 2D. I never argued they were in 3D. I'm not talking about that. I don't really care about that. He said there were no alternate paths at all, and I said there were alternate paths. I'm not here to debate 3D. Why are you trying to make me debate 3D? Sonic Colors' 3D is tripe. 

[Blue Blood]

Lol go play 3D in Colours and see how often it's worth pressing anything other than forwards and jump.

(the answer is almost never)

Forces is basically the same. 

[Balding Spider]

Wow, um. Won't lie seeing the number of negative previews lined up like that are a shock. Like I can't believe what I'm reading.

[Graystripe2000]

12 minutes ago, Balding Spider said:

Wow, um. Won't lie seeing the number of negative previews lined up like that are a shock. Like I can't believe what I'm reading.

And this is several weeks after E3. BTW, did anyone ever post this? http://twinfinite.net/2017/06/sonic-forces-confirmed-to-be-pure-distilled-oc-fuel/

[Blue Blood]

16 minutes ago, Balding Spider said:

Wow, um. Won't lie seeing the number of negative previews lined up like that are a shock. Like I can't believe what I'm reading.

It's kind of a relief, honestly.

I don't want any Sonic game to be bad, and obviously I wish that Forces was a better game than it is. But being on the same side as the critics and what seems to be the majority is at a positive. I'd really hate to have another S4E1 situation on our hands where the game for glowing praise from everyone but the dedicated fans.

[JosepHenry]

8 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

It's kind of a relief, honestly.

I don't want any Sonic game to be bad, and obviously I wish that Forces was a better game than it is. But being on the same side as the critics and what seems to be the majority is at a positive. I'd really hate to have another S4E1 situation on our hands where the game for glowing praise from everyone but the dedicated fans.

I understand from where you're coming from, but what do you expect Sonic Team to do if Forces gets mixed reception? They could screw things up even more than if was good.

They could misunderstand the criticism.

[Blue Blood]

13 minutes ago, Joseph Mello said:

I understand from where you're coming from, but what do you expect Sonic Team to do if Forces gets mixed reception? They could screw things up even more than if was good.

They could misunderstand the criticism.

Frankly I can only expect mistake after mistake from Sonic Team. But that's not my point. I'm just glad that it seems like there's a lot of fans and critics on the same page here. 

[Indigo Rush]

What's interesting about these criticisms in particular is that they are actually talking about the flow of the gameplay and how shallow it is, simultaneously referring to Mania as a golden example of what they are wanting in terms of level design, even calling into question Classic Sonic's (Forces) control and feel.

There's very little room for other interpretation. Forces is not simply being slagged, they're pointing to Mania as a standard, and it isn't Classic Sonic's presence, this time. It's the game.

[Cornelius Fudge]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

Lol go play 3D in Colours and see how often it's worth pressing anything other than forwards and jump.

  Reveal hidden contents

(the answer is almost never)

 

Forces is basically the same. 

This is my issue. Outside of the wisps allowing for more exploration in Colors, I can't see how Forces differentiates itself from Colors at all. All of the 3D boost games (Unleashed, Colors, and Generations) clearly have some sort of distinction between them in terms of level design and this is literally the first time where they're literally copying and pasting the boost formula onto their newest game. I'm glad that the Colors and Generations team are working on this game, but not if it means that it's the amalgamation of Colors (Modern Sonic) and Generations (Classic Sonic). The only thing they've done to distinguish itself form the other games was through implementing the 3rd gameplay style which Aaron Webber seemed to hint was the only distinction, but that's not enough. At least refine the Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic gameplays. Outside of enhancing Modern Sonic's controls in 2D sections, I'm not seeing any significant progress.

[Tracker_TD]

I was genuinely expecting a Sonic 4 effect where Classic just got accepted by critics because he's Classic, and the Boost was accepted regardless of factors like level design because Generations did it well. It's nice to see Mania's actually brought on more nuance from critics in how certain aspects like level design and physics are handled.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

2017. The year critics finally wake up.

[PKGaming]

So Sonic fans (developers of Mania) once again proving they can make a better Sonic game than Sonic Team themselves. How embarrassing... 

But honestly, I really DON'T want Sonic Forces to be bad. My only hope is that what we're seeing really is just the simple crap at the beginning of the game. Sonic games almost always have super simple levels starting out that just boil down to going forward and jumping every now and then. It's the later levels that really open up. Generations was like this too with Green Hill Zone being too simple, but then you get levels like Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill, even Crisis City that open up and offer more interesting level design choices. I just hope Forces is the same way and it proves us wrong with its level design.

[Kuzu]

It helps that the public have had a few years to dissect what actual Classic gameplay is and should be. With all of the hype surrounding Sonic 4, it's easy for people to get swept up and  think it's the greatest thing in existence just because its a "return" to 2D. Even official critics started noticing Sonic 4's faults whenever they revisited the game, which likely contributed to  Episode 2's mediocre reception.

No, I don't expect Sonic Team to actually address the negative press beyond an extremely superficial level, but it does feel refreshing that it isn't simply another case of "lol Sonic fans" and that there are legit issues with this game, especially when compared to Mania.

[TheOcelot]

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

they're pointing to Mania as a standard, and it isn't Classic Sonic's presence, this time. It's the game.

Which is what we've been trying to tell Iizuka for ages and it's about time he catches on. It's the gameplay from Sonic 1 to 3K which sets the standard. Always has.

If Mania gets critical acclaim (which seems all but guaranteed at this point) and Forces gets a crap reception (which also feels guaranteed because of the wide-spread criticism) then maybe...just maybe...they'll finally catch-on and realise something is seriously wrong and that it's time for change.

Mania could end up doing more good than we could have ever dreamed of by showing-up just how flawed the 3D games really are.

[Mad Convoy]

I'd say the overall reception is less negative and more divisive. Don't forget that there were plenty of positive receptions to the E3 demo as well (such as the one from Alex on Sonic Stadium, or the Polygon article). Fans seem to have different feelings about Forces too judging by social media and such-- like most Sonic games, there were some feeling positive, some feeling negative, and some feeling mixed. I'm on the mixed side, leaning positive but with criticisms and reservations.

Divisive and mediocre are not good things for Sonic Forces to be. I will never claim otherwise. But I notice that some people who were already feeling negative are painting the majority of people giving impressions as also feeling as negatively as they are, when clearly that isn't the case. I also notice that some people who were already feeling negative are projecting their own viewpoints on the negative impressions, when that isn't necessarily the case. For example, many of the negative impressions mentioned liking Colors and Gens, meaning that they don't think the Boost gameplay style is shallow or not worthwhile, just Sonic Forces.

Because I know that somebody is going accuse me of this, no, I'm not passive aggressively referring to any specific users here. I'm just referring to a trend that I've noticed amongst fans feeling negative about the game on this site and outside it. Nor am I ordering you to stop being negative or enjoy negative impressions-- its perfectly normal to be pessimistic and feel validated by negativity from professional critics. I'm just annoyed at people taking that feeling of validation and going way too far by claiming that their viewpoints represent the whole or that most critics agree that Sonic Forces is going to be terrible/shallow/etc for the exact same reasons that some pessimistic fans do. Its just as bad as claiming that the majority is feeling positive about Sonic Forces, something that I know is really annoying and a common bugbear here and elsewhere.

With that in mind, I have a feeling that this isn't going to change when the game comes out. For reviews, I'm guessing you'll get a mix of 4s, 5s, 8s, and 9s-- or alternatively, a lot of 7s. Fans will be even more varied with pretty much every number rating on the spectrum appearing at least once. I mean, Sonic Forces is by nature divisive due to the weird path its taken to try to please everybody. Now, it might change depending on what Sonic Team does next-- in a more positive manner like how Unleashed got better appreciated once Colors and Gens. built off of its Day Stage gameplay, or alternatively how Sonic Adventure 1 came to be less liked due to damage caused by Sonic 06 which was based off of SA1. But for now, its divisive.

[Soniman]

55 minutes ago, A wreaking havoc engine said:

2017. The year critics finally wake up.

Never thought I'd see this fanbase praise the critics for bashing a Mainline Sonic game, just goes to show how much of a rock bottom reputation this game as made for itself 

[Kellan]

I really don't think we'll ever have to worry about game critics reacting too positively to a 3D Sonic game.

[Milo]

God is a Geek - "Sonic Forces has an electric whip, and is a confused game"

Quote

Sonic Generations proved that Classic and Modern Sonic can co-exist and even thrive if the levels work and the tone is right. But the main problem with Sonic Forces is that the levels don’t seem to ‘flow’ that well.

Talking about the ‘flow’ of each level sounds like airy-fairy-I-haven’t-got-a-real-criticism-to-make-so-this-wishy-washy-BS-will-do nonsense. In this case, it’s fairly apt. There’s a lot of having to check your speed in ‘Classic’ Sonic levels to avoid the obstacles and pitfalls, along with a lot of stopping and starting in ‘Modern’ Sonic levels because you missed a homing attack on an enemy. It’s not really a case of ‘git gud’, even though playing and learning each level does solve those problems. It’s that the whole ‘git gud’ learning curve isn’t that much fun.

The lack of flow through each level is true even when playing with your own created character. Along with the weapons, you can equip skills such as the ability to explode into the air or turn into an electric ball of death, slamming through enemies. The idea is that these skills allow you to tackle levels in different ways, using the explosion leaps to reach higher platforms, as one example. But it still doesn’t really solve the stop/start nature of each level and it doesn’t make level replays that much more enjoyable while learning the fastest routes.

WCCFTech - "Sonic Forces Hands-On Switch Preview – Thoroughly Forced"

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A character creator tool is honestly harmless – but creating your character feels a bit pointless when there’s no variety of what you can do in-game. From what we were able to see, all of the OC characters will play identically, using a grapple gun to swing around objects, and using it as a homing attack – essentially making all of the OC stages play like Sonic, but my OC also happened to have a flamethrower. It killed enemies quicker but still didn’t manage to make the game fun.

Unfortunately, it’s incredibly difficult to get excited for Sonic Forces at this stage. The game didn’t look good (although resolution will definitely be higher on PC, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One versions of the game than Nintendo Switch), it didn’t feel very good to play, stages didn’t feel inspired or interesting… It was just something I played. Or endured.

Sonic forces one more 3D game out, but maybe he shouldn’t have bothered.

Hmm....

[Soniman]

Do I need to stress how great it is we have Mania to fall back on or is the sentiment already more then understood? 

[JosepHenry]

Quote

Sonic forces one more 3D game out, but maybe he shouldn’t have bothered.

I swear if Sonic doesn't have 3D games after Forces I'll blame this guy. Curse you Dave!