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Sonic Forces Impressions


Badnik Mechanic

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1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

Time to add another preview to that compilation post I did...

Waypoint - "Mario vs Sonic in 2017 Is Looking Mightily One-Sided"

 

I've seen a lot of folks panicking about this on twitter and all I can say is: If anybody honestly believed that this game was going to be better or on par with freaken Odyssey....well I got some bridges to sell you. 

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4 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

I think I have an explanation for the recent previews that are popping up. 

http://www.imgur.com/gallery/tHhM7Ja

Yeah, I think that was mentioned a page or two ago. A lot of European journalists I'm familiar with attended. 

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3 hours ago, Bobnik said:

Then again, impressions/previews are not the final saying, many previews end up being false after the game release.

Do you have a source for this?

And are you referring to previews in general, or negative previews in particular?

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4 hours ago, Bobnik said:

Then again, impressions/previews are not the final saying, many previews end up being false after the game release.

Opinions being false is Not Actually a Thing™.

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16 hours ago, ChikaBoing said:

Critics imo never had good grasp on good level design in platformers in the past given how Handheld Sonic games (and Colors), NSMB and Kirby games were never critized for having level design that could be more memorable.

Heyheyheyheyheyheyhey leave Kirby outta this! 

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4 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

Opinions being false is Not Actually a Thing™.

Okay, not false, but "different" from the reviews for the final product. Blame my English for that one.

4 hours ago, Gabe said:

Do you have a source for this?

And are you referring to previews in general, or negative previews in particular?

I'm referring to previews in general. Examples might be for Lost World, Rise of Lyric, ME Andromeda. For all of these previews were mostly positive. The reviews were mixed or negative. That just shows how the opinion on product might change between the demo and the final product. That's why I'm saying first impressions/previews aren't everything for both positive and negative instances.

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These previews aren't exactly spelling good news for Forces, but if Forces does end up bombing critically then I really hope we can end this whole "oh Sonic fans don't appreciate anything!" nonsense. If Forces bombs then it'll mean that people were right to remain skeptical.

Stuff like this video just drives me crazy. How can anyone think that way?  This video basically implies that Sonic Boom was something the fans had been asking for for ages and that SEGA delivered a quality product but we just threw it back in their faces and I'm just there like: "No...? That's not how it happened at all"

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On 09/07/2017 at 6:14 AM, Bobnik said:

Okay, not false, but "different" from the reviews for the final product. Blame my English for that one.

I'm referring to previews in general. Examples might be for Lost World, Rise of Lyric, ME Andromeda. For all of these previews were mostly positive. The reviews were mixed or negative. That just shows how the opinion on product might change between the demo and the final product. That's why I'm saying first impressions/previews aren't everything for both positive and negative instances.

 

Rise of Lyric got negative previews. This game is getting negative previews. I wonder how this will do in Metacritic. Low 50's?

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The game's getting positive previews too. Just read the first several pages of so, and I even posted a few positive previews some folks on here missed.

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10 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

The game's getting positive previews too. Just read the first several pages of so, and I even posted a few positive previews some folks on here missed.

Doesn't really matter. The negative previews are much more constructive and reflect my frustrations with the game. Namely, the automatic sections and  the levels themselves being underwhelming. Even Super Mario Odyssey has a better sense of speed and flow to it, especially with the Jaxi and Sand Kingdom. 

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On 7/9/2017 at 1:14 AM, Bobnik said:

I'm referring to previews in general. Examples might be for Lost World, Rise of Lyric, ME Andromeda. For all of these previews were mostly positive.

...wait, RoL got positive previews?

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3 hours ago, memoryman3 said:

Doesn't really matter. The negative previews are much more constructive and reflect my frustrations with the game. Namely, the automatic sections and  the levels themselves being underwhelming. Even Super Mario Odyssey has a better sense of speed and flow to it, especially with the Jaxi and Sand Kingdom. 

I would be careful about trusting articles just because they reflect what you think and dismissing those that don't. This is to avoid confirmation bias, or people actively seeking out stuff that validates their viewpoints rather than a balanced, accurate viewpoint. This isn't saying that the negative previews are wrong per say, but rather that its best not to just dismiss a article because its positive about something you are negative about.

I already discussed this with Indigo Rush, so I think I will just link to my reply to him.

However, if you need more stuff, here's some more positive previews that actually go into detail about stuff.

Here's a guy who likes Fist Bump:

Quote

SEGA has unveiled the main theme from the Sonic Forces Original Soundtrack and it’s not actually that bad.

If you were wondering what sort of soundtrack Sonic Forces would have, then wonder now more as SEGA has unveiled “Fist Bump” the main theme for the upcoming Sonic game which features Douglas Robb from Hoobastank.

Of course, any 90s rock fan worth their studded belt will recognise Robb’s voice from his bands most recognisable track, The Reason. Though “Fist Bump” is as far away from The Reason as you could probably get.

While it’s just a short 90 second track, it gives us a good indication of what to expect from the game’s soundtrack and it looks to be a blend of modern rock mixed with chip tune, and I’m not mad.

https://www.n3rdabl3.com/2017/07/08/189210/sega-unveil-sonic-forces-main-theme-song-and-its-bumping/

This one was actually very mixed, but thought the game has plenty of good stuff and represents risk-taking behavior from Sega that he whole-heartedly approved of in good detail.

Quote

The modern levels play similar to any of Sonic's recent console outings, switching back and forth between three-dimensional settings and more traditional 2D platforming areas. The 3D moments — when you're flying at top speed, grabbing rings and dashing through enemies — are surprising when Forces feels its most composed. 

Quote

But while Forces may make a few missteps, the willingness to try new types of gameplay and add new characters to the mix occasionally clicks, and you see where Sonic could go from here. Different custom character abilities — like the already shown-off grappling hook — could offer a more enjoyable Sonic experience. Or maybe Sega has some more out-of-the-box levels up its sleeve that take advantage of Sonic’s speed in 3D environments in new ways. It seems willing to try new things, with fresh takes on the tried-and-true franchise formula, even if it doesn't totally nail the execution on a first impression.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/15/15808860/sonic-mania-forces-sega-custom-characters-hands-on-e3-2017

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Okay, let's take a look at Green Hill with the custom character.

 

Alarm bells are already ringing in my head when I see that 90% of the level is 2D, and the only 3D part is completely on rails and not fun to replay.Also, the spider leg sections look really cheap + the avatar's floaty jump doesn't help. Also, the enemies are the exact same ones you saw in Park Avenue, with the same formations.

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I think there is above path where you can avoid spiders legs + pits. Still wonder if Modern Sonic visits Green Hill.

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I dunno if this was posted yet, but theres some footage with the avatar in Park Ave. and the other wispon that uses the beam thingy.

 

There's a big issue I have with this wispon. It seems to sorta make you dash and completely stop after you use it, slowing down the gameplay heavily. Also, there seems to be no lives anymore. At least for the avatar.

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19 minutes ago, memoryman3 said:

Okay, let's take a look at Green Hill with the custom character.

 

Alarm bells are already ringing in my head when I see that 90% of the level is 2D, and the only 3D part is completely on rails and not fun to replay.Also, the spider leg sections look really cheap + the avatar's floaty jump doesn't help. Also, the enemies are the exact same ones you saw in Park Avenue, with the same formations.

I'm not trying to debate you on saying that you don't like Avatar Green Hill. I completely get why somebody would dislike it, and even if I didn't, I wouldn't chide you for disliking it. My point was just that you're acting really dismissive, ironically with little explanation as to why, and that makes me concerned that you would have disliked the game no matter what because of confirmation bias. Which is totally something to watch out for, because there could be something you like in Forces but you never realize it because of confirmation bias. Or, in this case, the people writing positive stuff about Forces could have more reasons to like it than just because they like it.

(Also, I thought the avatar's jump looked rigid, not floaty. It looks like it gives you the same air control as the double jump from Colors. Weird how things can look different to different people.)

9 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

I actually saw that one, but it didn't go into detail why and instead left it up to the reader to decide. I thought a more appropriate article would be one that explained what the song is like.

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24 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

I'm not trying to debate you on saying that you don't like Avatar Green Hill. I completely get why somebody would dislike it, and even if I didn't, I wouldn't chide you for disliking it. My point was just that you're acting really dismissive, ironically with little explanation as to why, and that makes me concerned that you would have disliked the game no matter what because of confirmation bias. Which is totally something to watch out for, because there could be something you like in Forces but you never realize it because of confirmation bias. Or, in this case, the people writing positive stuff about Forces could have more reasons to like it than just because they like it.

(Also, I thought the avatar's jump looked rigid, not floaty. It looks like it gives you the same air control as the double jump from Colors. Weird how things can look different to different people.)

I actually saw that one, but it didn't go into detail why and instead left it up to the reader to decide. I thought a more appropriate article would be one that explained what the song is like.

Yes, I like how the game is pushing ambitious graphics for a handheld Sonic game, the best we have ever seen. Hedgehog Engine is finally on mobile!

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37 minutes ago, memoryman3 said:

Yes, I like how the game is pushing ambitious graphics for a handheld Sonic game, the best we have ever seen. Hedgehog Engine is finally on mobile!

I agree, that is really cool. The only thing I'm worried about with portable Hedgehog Engine is that the Switch might not be powerful enough to handle Hedgehog Engine 2.0, as I have heard reports of performance issues on that version of Forces.

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5 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

I agree, that is really cool. The only thing I'm worried about is that the Switch might not be powerful enough to handle Hedgehog Engine 2.0, as I have heard reports of performance issues on that version of Forces.

The performance in docked mode is a solid 30fps, but undocked, there's quite a bit of slowdown in 3D parts.

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im not too worried about the negative e3 reactions in regards to modern sonic because it's likely that city heights is the first level and most 1st levels in modern sonic are pretty linear and on rails. Think the normal classic levels will be liked, not too sure about the avatar stages tho.

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I actually think the main reason why Sonic Forces looks as linear in 3D and blocky in 2D as it does is because the director of the game Morio Kishimoto's only games are the Storybook series, Lost World, and Colors. Judging from the levels we've seen so far, It doesn't seem like the direction he wants to take this game is a promising one from a level design aspect at least. One has to wonder why someone with such a mediocre track record was even given such an important role in the first place.

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