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Sonic Forces Impressions


Badnik Mechanic

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Something I was wondering. Since it seems that all the E3 previews have been published, should we lock this topic? Or turn it into an overall impressions article thread? 

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  • The title was changed to Sonic Forces Impressions

Hmm, yeah. I just updated the thread title. Barring new news/reveals (which will get their own threads), I think this can stand as a collection of all press-related impressions.

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16 hours ago, Speedi said:

I actually think the main reason why Sonic Forces looks as linear in 3D and blocky in 2D as it does is because the director of the game Morio Kishimoto's only games are the Storybook series, Lost World, and Colors. Judging from the levels we've seen so far, It doesn't seem like the direction he wants to take this game is a promising one from a level design aspect at least. One has to wonder why someone with such a mediocre track record was even given such an important role in the first place.

Basically. The reason why it looks the way it does is because it's Modern Sonic in Colors without the wisps and the wisps were paramount for Sonic's exploration and nonlinearity in Colors. Strip that away and you get a game that looks as linear as Sonic Forces does.

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Maybe it's because of the player's performance, but does anyone else here think the Custom Hero's Lightning Wispon look really janky to use? Everytime the player uses the lightning whip attack on the ground, the player is also thrust forward in the direction they are facing. It's really obvious IMO in the 3D sections in particular regarding the first half of the Park Avenue level. (Starting at 4:55.)

 

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5 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Maybe it's because of the player's performance, but does anyone else here think the Custom Hero's Lightning Wispon look really janky to use? Everytime the player uses the lightning whip attack on the ground, the player is also thrust forward in the direction they are facing. It's really obvious IMO in the 3D sections in particular regarding the first half of the Park Avenue level. (Starting at 4:55.)

 

Yes, it seems very clunky to use since it happens to slow the player down as well.

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cobanermani456 also posted his E3 impressions of Sonic Forces a while back.

- He notes that for Modern Sonic, the boost isn't as overpowered as it was in Generations or Unleashed (I guess that means we should expect it to function more as it did in Colors), and that the drift mechanic was absent. He also noted air boost (in contrast) was "super overpowered", explaining that it sends Sonic forward at a odd angle and also has a lot of range; he said that he really liked the changes to it, though. He also said Sonic's movement is also very different, describing it as "really awkward" (though he's unsure if it was because of the game itself or because of the Switch controller); and noted that the drift mechanic was absent. Other than that, he says the gameplay is otherwise the same as previous Boost titles.

- He says the Custom Hero character's gameplay reminded him a lot of the Storybook series (Black Knight in particular). His comments about his experience with the Lightning Wispon (at 3:34 and 5:30) seem to be line up with my personal observational comments I posted a few minutes ago.

- Although he didn't play the Classic Sonic stage in the video, he says he controls like in Generations, and says the Drop Dash in the game is overpowered, even moreso than the Spin Dash from Generations--"it's really broken [...] it catapults you to top speed, just by landing".

Overall, cobanermani456 seemed to generally like what he played though, and is still looking forward to both this game and Mania.

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Probably just me, but the grass in GHZ ps4 appears to make Classic Sonic appear a lot smaller than the less detailed Switch version.

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On 7/12/2017 at 5:41 PM, Dannymax440 said:

Probably just me, but the grass in GHZ ps4 appears to make Classic Sonic appear a lot smaller than the less detailed Switch version.

I've seen a lot of complaints about how small the character is in the game because of how far out the camera is and how full/large everything around the character is. This is pretty common.

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Trusted Reviews preview. (URL calls it a review for some reason.)

Since Sonic Generations proved that Sega’s iconic mascot was still capable of something good, our hopes were set higher than usual for Sonic Forces. By combining the nostalgic 2D origins of the blue bullet with his less than stellar modern outings, we saw an inconsistent yet lovable adventure. Sonic Forces aims for something similar, but appears to stumble at every conceivable hurdle.

...

Being punished for circumstances you can’t predict, and the constant chore of stopping and starting, remains as tiresome as it did in 2003’s Sonic Heroes. Control is often taken away from you, too, and set pieces are presented through a wildly choppy frame rate. Platformers are at their best when you’re rewarded for tight precision and exploration. Sonic Forces clasps your hand like an overbearing parent and seldom lets go.

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59 minutes ago, Yeow said:

Trusted Reviews preview. (URL calls it a review for some reason.)

Oh man, I couldn't have been the only person who face palmed when he essentially asked why Classic Sonic couldn't stick to the nostalgia bomb tactic from Generations... and the double irony of that statement is the boss he played took place in GHZ against an obvious checker wrecker homage. Total 2-faced moment there. Stuff like that piled on with the confirmation that he hadn't seen a full classic sonic stage yet (despite GHZ being in the wild for some time now) makes me question his merit a little bit. He didn't dig very deep for form his opinions.

He seemed to gripe over some of the usual issues though, but I can't help but shake the feeling that he parroted at least some of it due to the aforementioned credibility loss. It is worth noting that many of these previews have cited framerate issues ranging from noticeable during the crab chase sequence to wildly inconsistent throughout. Since he brought up Odyssey, its likely he was checking out the Switch version. Lets hope they get that cleaned up a bit.

Also worth noting that he labeled the Lightning Wispon overpowered to the point of invincibility. Most people who got that route have had issues using that particular wisp. Looks like he got the hang of it pretty quick.

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29 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Oh man, I couldn't have been the only person who face palmed when he essentially asked why Classic Sonic couldn't stick to the nostalgia bomb tactic from Generations... and the double irony of that statement is the boss he played took place in GHZ against an obvious checker wrecker homage. Total 2-faced moment there.

I figured he was talking about the general aesthetic style. Like, yeah I'm with him that the generally brighter and more colorful Zones in Generations are much nicer to look at than a sandy, desaturated Green Hill or the drab and edgy City Heights. I don't think he's saying that Green Hill isn't in it, from my interpretation, it seems he's speaking generally.

29 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

He seemed to gripe over some of the usual issues though, but I can't help but shake the feeling that he parroted at least some of it due to the aforementioned credibility loss.

I don't see a correlation between his preference for visual style and his credibility. And even if he did make that mistake, how does said false pretense on level identity discredit anything else he could have said in regards to the level design, flow, automation issues and anything else that would prevent the game from being fun? I really think you're reading into this the wrong way.

Also, mate you need to update your Photobucket account to enable 3rd party hosting. For more information, please go to http://www.photobucket.com/P500

 

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16 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

I figured he was talking about the general aesthetic style. Like, yeah I'm with him that the generally brighter and more colorful Zones in Generations are much nicer to look at than a sandy, desaturated Green Hill or the drab and edgy City Heights. I don't think he's saying that Green Hill isn't in it, from my interpretation, it seems he's speaking generally.

I don't see a correlation between his preference for visual style and his credibility. And even if he did make that mistake, how does said false pretense on level identity discredit anything else he could have said in regards to the level design, flow, automation issues and anything else that would prevent the game from being fun? I really think you're reading into this the wrong way.

I guess I just read into that differently. I understand that he acknowledges GHZ in his article, but on the other hand when you consider that he has yet to be made aware of the video of a full stage playthrough of GHZ classic (despite using a picture of it in the article... suspicious but not damning I suppose) - Some of what he said doesn't pass the smell test. Literally everything he's seen of Classic is a nostalgia bomb - very much in the vein of Gens right down to the Egg Dragoon. I feel like he parroted a conclusion on that front, and that is a slight against his credibility as I perceive it. To me, it was odd that he singled out Gens classic Sonic exclusively to compare to the totality of what he's seen in forces. That just striked me as very odd. Who does that? Particularly when Modern and Classic utilized the same assets and atmosphere...

I tried re-reading it in your mindset, and I can see that. Maybe he could have just been a little clearer in his writing. My first pass shot off all kinds of alarm bells.

I can take the complaints of automation and framerate at face value though. We already know those are in there, and reporting on that is a binary understanding. Nothing to get too convoluted there.

 

16 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Also, mate you need to update your Photobucket account to enable 3rd party hosting. For more information, please go to http://www.photobucket.com/P500

Yeah I know. I was gonna do it right away, but I kinda got pissed when I saw it and decided to leave it there as protest for a little while

Don't know who Photobucket thinks they are gonna sucker into paying for a membership, but it sure ain't gonna be me.

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7 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Also worth noting that he labeled the Lightning Wispon overpowered to the point of invincibility. Most people who got that route have had issues using that particular wisp. Looks like he got the hang of it pretty quick.

Most people's problem with the Lightning Wispon that I've seen has been it either pushing you forwards, or its reach being just not quite enough to kill all the enemies in a line, which combined with all the effects and the super-zoomed-out perspective on levels like Green Hill Avatar means players keep on running straight into the last enemy left in a row.  The previewer claimed that he could just essentially spam or chain Lightning by holding down the button, though?  It's a shame there's no video footage, as that sounds well worth examining.

6 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Yeah I know. I was gonna do it right away, but I kinda got pissed when I saw it and decided to leave it there as protest for a little while

Don't know who Photobucket thinks they are gonna sucker into paying for a membership, but it sure ain't gonna be me.

Just chipping in briefly with my two cents on this, but yeah, don't pay them.  I also used Photobucket's free accounts for years, but their service has grown gradually worse and worse, and springing a four hundred dollar charge on people without warning just to do the one thing everyone had a Photobucket account for in the first place has been the straw that broke the camel's back for everyone I've seen on the Internet.  Just switch hosts.

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So...

Any bets on the next 3D game being more exploration based and non-boost anyone?

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15 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

So...

Any bets on the next 3D game being more exploration based and non-boost anyone?

Knowing how SEGA love getting wrong impressions and make weird decisions based on those impressions, I'd rather bet on Sonic going fully 2D and ditching 3D for a while.

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4 hours ago, Bobnik said:

Knowing how SEGA love getting wrong impressions and make weird decisions based on those impressions, I'd rather bet on Sonic going fully 2D and ditching 3D for a while.

I'd be thrilled with that ONLY if it's Whitehead handling everything.

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4 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

So...

Any bets on the next 3D game being more exploration based and non-boost anyone?

I would be down for Sonic to go fully 2D for some time. Mania has showed how Sonic works best in 2D, the way it worked well over 20 years ago. 3D Sonic needs a breather BUT, I've said it before: I would like to see a more explorable based Sonic game in the future. Not in an open world scale but more open than what Unleashed, Colors, Gens and Forces are. Also, no 2D sections for next 3D title, I'm sick of that.

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3D Sonic doesn't work because the games aren't good. 3D Sonic can be awesome, and a time out won't do any good, they just need a different direction.

Forces is the product of a 5 year hiatus on Sonic Team's part. Look at what that brought us.

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A new Sonic game from Sonic Team could show up next year already, we don't know really. 

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14 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

3D Sonic doesn't work because the games aren't good. 3D Sonic can be awesome, and a time out won't do any good, they just need a different direction.

Forces is the product of a 5 year hiatus on Sonic Team's part. Look at what that brought us.

I'd like to point this out...

When it comes to 3D, the highlights of the direction have ALWAYS been swamped by the critiques of the titles.

Both of the Adventure games had the absolutely ideal type of 3D game play for Sonic, but the consistent and overbearing whining over everything unrelated to that part of the games made them dump them entirely, including the Sonic game play.

The boost games had the perfect thing going for it in the day stages in Unleashed, but again, all of the whining about the Werehog made them drop how boost was done in that game in favor of Colors which, as Ive said, was praised as God-tier perfection.

In short, if people would learn to shut the hell up, we might get and KEEP a good 3D style for Sonic.

Edit

Sorry for the salt on that one but it's true.

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14 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'd like to point this out...

When it comes to 3D, the highlights of the direction have ALWAYS been swamped by the critiques of the titles.

Both of the Adventure games had the absolutely ideal type of 3D game play for Sonic, but the consistent and overbearing whining over everything unrelated to that part of the games made them dump them entirely, including the Sonic game play.

The boost games had the perfect thing going for it in the day stages in Unleashed, but again, all of the whining about the Werehog made them drop how boost was done in that game in favor of Colors which, as Ive said, was praised as God-tier perfection.

In short, if people would learn to shut the hell up, we might get and KEEP a good 3D style for Sonic.

Edit

Sorry for the salt on that one but it's true.

The issue isn't with people speaking their minds, it's with Sonic Team or who for them takes some decisions.

They have no idea what to do, no clear direction, and it's totally not our fault.

If they didn't have 6 different gameplay styles in the first place in Adventure, this would've never happened.

They created so many different sub-franchises with Sonic that it's mind baffling. What is even "Sonic" anymore? When the Sonic games that are coming out barely play like Sonic in the first place.

Again, it's not the fan's or the critics' fault. If they can't pick a direction, a good one for god's sake, and keep it, then it's on them, not us.

EDIT: If people said "More Sonic Unleashed day stages" and they went with Colours that plays nothing like Unleashed it's not our fault.

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14 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

The issue isn't with people speaking their minds, it's with Sonic Team or who for them takes some decisions.

They have no idea what to do, no clear direction, and it's totally not our fault.

If they didn't have 6 different gameplay styles in the first place in Adventure, this would've never happened.

They created so many different sub-franchises with Sonic that it's mind baffling. What is even "Sonic" anymore? When the Sonic games that are coming out barely play like Sonic in the first place.

Again, it's not the fan's or the critics' fault. If they can't pick a direction, a good one for god's sake, and keep it, then it's on them, not us.

EDIT: If people said "More Sonic Unleashed day stages" and they went with Colours that plays nothing like Unleashed it's not our fault.

Simple...

SA/SA2 styled Sonic game play, with plenty of room to roam and a good consistent type of speed with well-made physics.

Take what was fine in those games, and improve/modernize them.

Give Sonic some blurry legs since nostalgia is their big kicker in the franchise and remember the spin dash...

And there you have it.

Adventure Sonic game play, just faster and naturally evolved.

You got your wall running, yer grinding, a good pace and yer blurry legs, and plenty of room in your paths to stretch out and explore a bit.

Add in some unlockable moves/items to encourage looking around...

And boom. Want to make the game last longer?

Missions, ones that take advantage of and redesign the stages, again, SA2.

I'll take my check now.

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Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Simple...

SA/SA2 styled Sonic game play, with plenty of room to roam and a good consistent type of speed with well-made physics.

Take what was fine in those games, and improve/modernize them.

Give Sonic some blurry legs since nostalgia is their big kicker in the franchise and remember the spin dash...

And there you have it.

Adventure Sonic game play, just faster and naturally evolved.

You got your wall running, yer grinding, a good pace and yer blurry legs, and plenty of room in your paths to stretch out and explore a bit.

Add in some unlockable moves/items to encourage looking around...

And boom. Want to make the game last longer?

Missions, ones that take advantage of and redesign the stages, again, SA2.

I'll take my check now.

Going from Adventure 1 to Adventure 2 the level design changed quite a bit in Sonic stages. You'd need Adventure 1 level design, expand on that (a LOT since the game came out 20 years ago...), fix the physics, and then you'd have a game that plays like Sonic.

The point is that while that sounds like a logical conclusion to us, it probably wasn't to Sonic Team back then, so Heroes took what SA2 did and streamlined it, Shadow took what Heroes did and made it worse + labyrinths, 06 went back to Adventure 1 but heavily botched it up. 

Unleashed was a rewrite, but one that doesn't hold up for long since once you take out the QTEs and add a stable framerate to the mix, the player's engagement falls apart.

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6 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Going from Adventure 1 to Adventure 2 the level design changed quite a bit in Sonic stages. You'd need Adventure 1 level design, expand on that (a LOT since the game came out 20 years ago...), fix the physics, and then you'd have a game that plays like Sonic.

The point is that while that sounds like a logical conclusion to us, it probably wasn't to Sonic Team back then, so Heroes took what SA2 did and streamlined it, Shadow took what Heroes did and made it worse + labyrinths, 06 went back to Adventure 1 but heavily botched it up. 

Unleashed was a rewrite, but one that doesn't hold up for long since once you take out the QTEs and add a stable framerate to the mix, the player's engaging falls apart.

It's a pretty well known fact the consumers have been more logical than Sonic Team over the past 20 years if you're willing to look past the screaming banshees that riot over everything and focus on the genuine critiques.

If we were able to put logic and Sonic Team together without bursting out in laughter we'd of had a 2D series like Mania that evolved smoothly and naturally into 2.5D over the years while having a 3D franchise that stuck to the Adventure games and smoothly evolved as well.

But... We weren't that fortunate and we're still not. It's taking, as expected, the community to fix the mess the "officials" have made over the years.

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