What YOU Think of Sonic Forces

[Blue Blood]

I absolutely hate the game at this moment in time, but I do still have some nice things to say about it. Regardless of what I have to say though, everyone is entitled to comment on new material with as many negative and/or positive comments as they please. And opinions can still be disagreed with. In an attempt to curb some of the crappier discussions on here, I thought it might be nice to have a thread wherein we can all remind ourselves that it's not all black and white - not everyone is blindly hating on, nor gushing over Forces. The posts and comments that grab your attention the most don't tell the full story. On an internet forum like this, it's very easy to forget about certain arguments and just focus on one side or the other. Especially when the topic in question is the subject of so much contention and division.

So guys, let's hear it, what do you think about Sonic Forces as a whole? Please try and put a fair amount of detail into your posts. This thread is more about collecting thoughts than it is about having another full-blown discussion, but of course it's not as though discussion is off the cards.

______________________________________________________

As I said above, I do not like this game. It has some positive points, but all of those things are trivial to inconsequential when I look at the whole picture. SEGA has presented us with an incredibly confused product that's misfiring and backfiring because they don't seem to know what they're actually aiming for.

I honestly wish that I had recorded my reaction to the Project Sonic 2017 reveal last year. I was so brimming with excitement when we saw a seriously-looking Sonic ploughing through a war-torn city that had been levelled by Death Egg Robots. I've always been open to the idea of Sonic occasionally taking to darker tones, so long as the games don't forget that they're about a talking blue hedgehog. And that trailer did just fine. The city, while burning and clearly in a state of terror, was colourful and threat was Eggman's goofy robots. That was all perfect for me. After suffering through the muddled and childish storylines of Colours, Generations and Lost World, this was a very welcome change of pace. I thought they were striking a decent balance that they've struggled with in the past, and still think that that looks to be the case even now. I feel like I'm looking at a Sonic game with some serious themes.

It all started going downhill when Classic Sonic appeared. My face dropped and I let a totally confused and unimpressed "what the fuck".

WHY?

Yes, Generations was the best-received 3D Sonic game ever, but that was for reasons beyond sheer nostalgia. With it, Sonic Team had created a solid experience that consistently played like a Sonic game and was very light on any unwanted filler content. They threw a bone to fans from almost every corner on top of making a game that wasn't brimming with absurd genre-shifts, bugs and angst. The gameplay was not perfect, but it was solid and functional, which is leagues above what people had come to expect from Sonic. Generations was not a good game because it had two Sonics. It was a good game because it didn't do stupid things. It was also a love-letter and celebration of the series history, so it had a real context. 

So looking back at where we stand with Forces now, Classic Sonic has returned as a separate character and gameplay because SEGA don't seem to recognise what made Generations good in the first place. They're under the impression that they can just throw two iterations of their flagship character into a game and it will suddenly be perfect for everyone. With the reveal of Classic Sonic's gameplay (and Green Hill...), they're obviously not trying to make any substantial improvements. Mania exacerbates this problem 10-fold because it faithfully builds on what the Classic games did. Generations worked, but ultimately its gameplay felt cheap and tacky compared to the authentic experience that Mania is delivering. Forces Classic is exactly the same as Generations Classic, because SEGA can't differentiate between aesthetics and content. It's the story of Sonic 4 all over again. 

As far as character designs go, Classic Sonic is Sonic and Modern Sonic is Sonic. They're the same, and SEGA would do well to employ both of them at different times to play to their strengths. Classic Sonic needs to stop being treated like a separate character, and certainly doesn't belong in this game. Generations was a special deal, which was very welcome.

Next up we have the Custom Hero.

Fuck no.

I don't know how better to put this, so here's what I'm going to say: I love the Sonic series and the cast that SEGA has created for us. I've spent the past 20-odd years enjoying seeing how the characters and stories play out in their world. In more recent years, I've felt burned by SEGA's unfortunate lack of understanding of their own series and fans which has seen the extended cast pushed out of the games in almost every capacity. I've been yearning to see them all make a come back. Not once in my many years as a fan have I been interested in creating my own characters, fictions or putting myself into the series in any way. Sonic has never been about us, the audience. It's about the characters. There definitely exists a huge proportion of people (particularly but not exclusively the younger fans at any given time in the series' history) who create their own content, and they've always been fine doing their own thing. It's a good idea for SEGA to capitalise on that market in the current climate when user-generated content is so popular. They're going about it all wrong though. Forces stars Sonic and Sonic and Your Name. Not what you would expect from a series that's boasted games with as many as 12 unique playable characters in the past. It's total brand confusion. Also, only one of the starring characters in this game can talk. That's just awkward.

You know what I could get behind? A separate mode wherein the custom character takes centre stage. Sonic and his team are fighting the bad guys in the main story. But there's a war going on, and the everyman has put in his efforts to. Enter the Custom Hero, who takes on challenges in his own levels without getting involved with the story that I actually care about. This could even work as a totally separate game, bonus points if it's online and lets everyone play together with their OCs. It just shouldn't be here next to actual characters.

The extended cast do appear in this game more prominently than they've done for a long time now. They're engaging with the player during gameplay (which is awesome but there needs to be some way/a mode to disable it please) and will presumably have a role to play in the story. I'm grateful for that, but at the same time it's more salt in the Custom Hero wound. The side of the series that has been long neglected and poorly treated by SEGA is being cast further aside in favour of a totally unwanted feature that goes completely against what the series has always tried to offer. "But Even Heroes Need Help" Sure they do - in the way of Tails and Knuckles and Amy and Shadow. Don't force me into this story.

Moving on to the gameplay, I don't like what I'm seeing. We've got two carry-overs from Generations with minimal improvements. It's the same scripted, automated and linear gameplay that we've all come to know and love or know and hate. Your mileage may vary - I sway towards the latter category there. I've played the Classic and Modern gameplay styles here and short of them being reworked from the ground up, I've had my fill. Mania in particular is going to satisfy that Classic itch like nothing else has done since Advance 1 or even 3K. So long as either gameplay style is riddled with moments that play themselves and don't have organic physics, they're trash in my books. Sonic needs to move on from that.

The Custom Hero gameplay actually looks like it's going to be the best part of this game. It's kind of an expansion of Colours. Despite that meaning copious amounts of 2D in what's supposedly a 3D game, the Wispons look like they offer some genuinely interesting approached to platforming. Being able to equip a different one each time you play a level is going to add a lot of variety into the mix. They function much more like power-ups and actual abilities this time around than they did as mini genre-shifts in past games. I'm really relieved to see that they're not so context specific, although it's a bit worrying to see that Wisps that you can't use will still appear throughout the levels. This gameplay obviously suffers from the same scripting, physics and spectacle issues as the rest of the game, but at least it's providing me with something new to look at. It's the strongest part of the game so far, although it only accomplishes that by not being bad.

Graphically, Forces isn't truly spectacular. But it looks very good. It was a very wise choice to prioritise 60fps on the platforms that can handle it. The backgrounds, for as little as you'll actually get to interact with them, are really nice to look at. And everything is colourful! There's realistic detail in a fantasy world, with so many effects going on all the time. It's really nice to look at. Show me any screenshot of this game and it's hard to say that it's not visually appealing. The music is, well, kinda naff. Rubbish faux-chiptune Classic tracks, some really dodgy vocals in the Custom Hero tracks and some pretty forgettable rock for Modern Sonic. The main theme is cool. Can't begin to argue against that one personally. 

I guess the only other point to bring up at this point is the story. Eggman winning and taking over is awesome. Metal Sonic is the pride of his creations, so having him back as a villain is awesome. And Infinite? Well, it's hard to comment on him just yet. He could be cool, or he could be another Mephiles. Gonna have to wait for more. The three other villains aren't so hot though. Shadow is a good guy, who's entire arc revolved around him discovering that and becoming most badass hero next to Sonic himself. He's got no interest in being the bad guy, especially not when it really matters. Zavok was always crappy and worked his own evil against Eggman at the first possible opportunity. And Chaos was never evil to begin with. Heck, Chaos is objectively a good guy. All he ever did was look out for the chao and get upset by war and destruction. The last thing he should be doing is willingly taking over the world. He kind of shouldn't even exist anymore. It looks like Forces is giving a big "fuck you" to a lot of fans and the series itself, which includes the continuity. There's probably some kind of time travel and/or mind control shenanigans going on. Neither option is welcome.

So there you have it. I don't like Forces for it's massive disregard to make genuine improvements on past games, misunderstanding of the fanbase and the series, poor gameplay and yes, the Custom Hero. I can praise aspects of the story, the gorgeous visuals, some aspects of the custom gameplay and the theme behind the entire game, but the but package comes together as something that I loathe. Feel free to disagree. As long as the game exists and SEGA release new media for it, I'm going to talk about it.

[Multikaris]

The announcement of the new villains changed my morbid curiosity to genuine interest. I'll accept the awful Classic Sonic depiction and music, the lumpy round shape of the custom character, and Graff's dialogue, all thanks to the interesting story.

[Blue Wisp]

Personally, first impressions - while they are the main thing that attracts customers and garners interest in the first place - don't do it in general for me. I need to play the full thing before I can say it fucking sucks so I'm waiting for Forces to release and after playing it then and only then I will say it fucking sucks. 

I am willing to give the game the benefit of the doubt. Sure, I would have rather not have Original the Character as something that happens. Or maybe I can admit that Classic Sonic does feel a little shoehorned in (especially with the 2D sections shown in Modern Park Avenue). But after only seeing one Modern stage, one Classic stage and two Coldsteel the Hedgehog stages, it's too early to say that it fucking sucks for me. I guess I like what I see, but I have to see more. More stages. Maybe a little bit of story and how The Four Cockmonglers and Ultron Sigma features into the plot. 

The setting is absurd. But it's a nice change to see Eggman actually winning for starters. We all know that Eggman will end up losing, Infinite will return to fuck-all like many other Monsters of the Week (sans Chaos for some reason, not that I mind, love Chaos) and Sonic will continue being a piece of shit until the next game. 

And I love how the stages are dynamic so far. The Eggman machines going amok in the background, that's something I always like when videogames have dynamic-y or something going on in the background in general. 

tl;dr: I'll give Forces a chance and if it fucking sucks then I still have Sonic Mania so it doesn't bother me. 

[Blue Blood]

4 minutes ago, Chaos the Ariel Wisp said:

tl;dr: I'll give Forces a chance and if it fucking sucks then I still have Sonic Mania so it doesn't bother me. 

See, I both agree and disagree with this. I've seen more than enough to be able to safely this "this game does a lot of things that fucking suck", and naturally that leads into "this game will probably fucking suck". So my verdict is "this game fucking sucks until it's proven otherwise".

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I want to be excited for Forces. I guess I am still excited for Forces, but a lot of what SEGA has shown has been infuriating me. As a Modern Sonic fan, I'm just finding myself getting more and more annoyed when SEGA seems to deliberately want to screw him over for Classic/Custom. Even during E3, we only got about 20 more seconds of the level we were already well aware of, and in every single playthrough, every person just quit at the same point. Meanwhile, here's Classic...which I could care less about. Here's Custom...which I could care less about.

And in terms of the story, I'm finding myself getting annoyed at how SEGA are still seemingly trying to make things simpler by over complicating them. Like for example, Classic. It represents a huge issue to me. "Classic's from another dimension". Now, here's the thing that annoys me. Not only does it cut off a massive chunk of Sonic's history and fucks things up because we no longer even know for sure what's canon to the characters' history, but Generations no longer makes any logical sense, and furthermore it feels like SEGA trying to shun Classic off as "Oh guys, you know those icky 3D games you didn't like? WELL CLASSIC NEVER HAD THOSE SO YOU LIKE HIM AGAIN RIGHT?!" 

Overall, I'm still excited for Forces, if only because a lot of what you mentioned still has me excited, including the story and the graphics, but goodness gracious, SEGA keep coming out with boneheaded decisions that seriously end up making me facepalm. Everything about Forces from a marketing front has been a complete and total mess and at this point, even I can't blame people for being burnt out with it. My only real issue in terms of the debates is when it goes to total extremes when we don't know enough in terms of the full game. Like saying "Personally, I don't like this, I think this sucks from what I've seen" is a whole other ball game from "This game fucking sucks and is totally doomed". Same way that defending it as "Well, personally I wanna give it a fair shot and wait for more details even if some of the things aren't great right now" is a different ball game from "OMG THIS GAME HAS NO FLAWS FOOK THE HATERS LOOOL"

[JosepHenry]

That's a great explanation of what you like and don't like about the game.

I personally think that Forces will not be as good as Mania, but still a very solid game. Maybe an 8.7/10.0 game.

With that said I'm very interested to know how the final game will be, the level design, story, the levels...

I'm liking this game a lot. But... To show that I don't think that this game is perfect in any way...

Classic Sonic has no reason to be there. None. They have to prove that he's at least important to the plot somehow.

The Custom Hero is not the best idea they could come up with. It sells but....

Sonic's friends playable? Nope they are annoying according to non-fans so have two Sonic's. Ugh, that makes me cringe. Why not improve those characters? Why not make them play like Sonic with some new abilities? They seem to have improved the dialogue of this game, so they aren't annoying anymore.

And the worst for all is that this game is called Sonic FORCES. Why I can't play with the rest of it? Ugh.

And the nostalgia grabbing is still very annoying too. But they proved to me that they can do something different with those places just like Sonic Mania, and I'm glad. But still I would much rather have new places to go.

The level design still concerns me. We only saw the first stages but I hope there is more balance between 2D and 3D.

The music is... Okay so far. I love the main theme and Modern Park Avenue but the rest is... Ehh...

Also, I'm not that big of a fan of the art style. I much rather have the Unleashed art style back. It was on point for me. But Lost World came and kinda ruined that for me.

So there you have it.

 

[CottonCandy]

Forces to me a strange one. I'm not angry at it but I'm not hyped for it. It doesn't look like a terrible game but it doesn't have much going on for me. Basically, exactly how I felt about Sonic Boom Fire and Ice. 

I was expecting something exciting but so far it just looks like generations with a character custom attached to it. I'm not getting any "wow" factors for forces like I had with Mario Odyssey,  Sonic Mania or Sonic Unleashed. The game just looks "okay" to me. The kind of game I'll buy months or years after its release. 

Even the music isn't blowing me away. The electronic, pop music doesn't sound very unique. It reminds alot of sonic runners and I didn't care much for that game's ost. And the classic music just screams sonic 4. 

On a positive note, I will say the graphics look great and hearing that it'll run at 60 frames sounds fantastic. The custom character feature seems like alot of fun to mess around with. Chaos 0 returning did put a smile on my face and I'm interested in the new edgy villain.

I really wanted to be hyped for this game but it's really losing its appeal to me. To the point where I don't think much about it anymore. Hopefully more information about it changes that. 

 

[Radiant Hero Ike]

I already posted my thoughts after playing, but one thing I'd like to go into more detail about is the lack of drifting. I feel like that means there's on need to drift, meaning less open stages. Not too optimistic about that.

(Also, I'm sorry, I feel like I sort of indirectly caused the problem here. I didn't mean to.)

[Blue Wisp]

14 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

See, I both agree and disagree with this. I've seen more than enough to be able to safely this "this game does a lot of things that fucking suck", and naturally that leads into "this game will probably fucking suck". So my verdict is "this game fucking sucks until it's proven otherwise".

That's where I disagree with you Blue. Maybe I have lower standards or whatever, but as long as the game is a little fun or enjoyable and is not a bug-ridden fucksucking mess like 06 or Big Rigs Over the Road Racing, then I'll be more than glad to try it out. Watching gameplay of other people playing doesn't cut it for me. I need to sit on my couch/bed and bingewatch the game over twelve hours until my eyes start bleeding Rings. 

And because most of them fucking suck at videogames.  

...

And I found 06 fun so whatever.

[Betz]

I don't think I've fully stated my opinions of the game. I am mostly optimistic for Forces. 

GAMEPLAY:

The modern gameplay is boost which I like. I like going fast and I think the boost gameplay truly shows it. What I don't like about it is that the boost is reliant on the wisps and that it drains quickly. And the boost pads everywhere. Could do without most of those.

Classic gameplay I think looks about the same as Generations. Dunno truly since I haven't played it yet. But I do like the drop dash inclusion. Was it stated that it was the Mania team's idea for the drop dash? I thought it was. Dunno.

Avatar looks to be a lot like Modern Sonics 2D but with weapons which I see as a bit overpowered. It'd be better if the wispons were fueled by Wisps all the time instead of just activating their secondary function. I DO like how customizable the avatar is. 

 

STORY:

Infinity looks like Generic Evil Villain that is designed to look evil #25.

I would've preferred that it was Eggman alone that conquered the world. I REALLLLLLLLYYYY wanted him to become the serious villain that say the Pre-252 Archie comics kinda made him out to be. (Using Sonic #175 as a reference here)

I hope the avatar fits in the story here instead of just, Sonic notices him for a sec and then based on that one moment then the avatar story goes.

It seems to me that the game breaks into three different stories. One for each character, and that would be something interesting to see.

 

LEVELS:

Green Hill Zone is back. No. 

EXCEPT... The avatar's level really feels like it fits in if Green Hill MUST be in. The mix between the environment and the factory is a nice mixture to see.

Park Ave. is an interesting level. This would be great for a "Eggman's first city he attacks" situation or "the start of the invasion".

The Egg Dragoon (while unnecessary) looks kinda like Eggman is started to get frustrated with Classic Sonic and just wants him gone. Kinda interesting IMO.

 

Also, the box art looks alright but you can read my thoughts over in the other thread.

 

 

 

 

Oh and Mania looks great too! Bit iffy on Chemical Plant. BUT IT LOOKS FUN!!!

[Osmium]

This game has had some of the worst fucking first impressions on me. Like seriously, it seems like everything they've tried to do is terrible. I was already almost offboard with this after seeing classic Sonic show up in that very first teaser trailer, as Generations 2 was EXACTLY the last thing I wanted for the next 3D Sonic game. Absolutely nothing shown after that has appealed to me in any way. Same tired boost gameplay, classic stages looking WORSE than Generations with laughably bad physics and music, all of the other music is mediocre at best, the fucking OC, the furry army we are supposed to take seriously, classic Sonic being from another dimension, a fanfic-tier story, a bunch of random villains showing up that shouldn't be here, and I think Not!Mephiles was seriously the last straw for me, god damn. 

Look, it's totally fine if you like the game and you'll probably enjoy it, but like I said, absolutely none of this appeals to ME. 

[Blue Wisp]

Just now, Terriful said:

Infinity looks like Generic Evil Villain that is designed to look evil #25.

I would've preferred that it was Eggman alone that conquered the world. I REALLLLLLLLYYYY wanted him to become the serious villain that say the Pre-252 Archie comics kinda made him out to be. (Using Sonic #175 as a reference here)

I have to agree with this. Infinite came out of nowhere and caught me offguard. And it feels rather unnecessary. The game until the E3 trailer seemed to be "EGGMAN WON BY OUTSMARTING SONIC" and now it's "EGGMAN FUCKED SONIC UP WITH THE HELP OF GOD WHICH WILL END UP BITING HIS ASS" again. It's a shame. 

But I want to see how Infinite even is a thing. What he does besides standing there menacingly

 

[Scar]

The way I feel about this game is sort of heartbroken. Its heartbreaking because Sonic Team are at their most technically competent. Fuck they designed their second graphics engine and it looks great. Graphics and art direction is basically perfect for the series. The game will probably be as polished as Lost World and Generations, free from frequent game breaking and meme-generating brokenness. And yet while being at their most technically competent, they've sunk back down to where they're almost as creatively bankrupt as 2006.

There is no direction. Right now its like Sonic Team are just doing stuff without any purpose. Its almost as if there is no one captain steering this ship. Its trying to go everywhere, and succeeding to go nowhere (which is alarmingly reminiscent of my own career prospects :S).

Why? I want to know why. Have they been stripped of all pride, and are now just being told what to do without thinking, by people so far above them they aren't even visible? I don't fucking know. But I want to.

-------------------------------------------------

Regarding the game itself. It looks ok. I've commented enough on its confusing direction, but hey nothing looks explicitly bad. Its all functional. But functional isn't enough.

Modern Sonic looks just as low-return-on-investment as ever with massive sprawling levels that will be over in minutes. Heck its why I think there is so much 2D. Using the 2D perspective and a little clever design they can fold the level back in on itself, minimising the need for vast quantities of unique background scenery, while maintaining the illusion of progressing through a landscape, and keeping everything nice and compact. It'll be as fun as Generations, I hope more for its sake.

Classic Sonic looks like Classic Sonic in Generations almost literally copy-pasted into a new game. Its like they made a fucking asset-flip of their own game and changed the water texture to a sand texture. Fucking fantastic. It'll be about as fun and no less awkward to play as Generations. I'm hoping its better again, but I doubt it.

Original the Character looks like a nice spin-off game they could have shoved onto the 3DS (or Online) at a massively lowered budget as a sort of supplement to the main game, but as Blue Blood says entirely separate to the main story. It could have offered a little vertical slice of the events that are unfolding, perhaps even giving us a neat glimpse into Eggman's actual take over while it was happening and Sonic was "lost in time" or whatever. But no, shunted on to this game for no reason. As I haven't played anything like it, I'll hold off on commenting on how fun I think it'll be. We shall see I guess.

[Strickerx5]

Sonic Forces is a game that I can mostly get behind. For the most part, it seems to be representing why I came to this series in the first place. Fast flowing gameplay, an interesting plot, pushing the limits of the system it’s on, music, ect. I can get with all of that.

What I’m currently not liking about it so far seems to only be classic ghz. Outside of that lovely looking grass, everything about it just isn’t doing anything for me. I wouldn’t even say I hate it, more of I’m just bored with it. I’ll say this right now, I don’t mind small doses of automation. If a game wants to show me something beyond the scope of pressing buttons, I’ll see what it has to offer. As long as I can finish the level and say that I’m having fun, I couldn’t care less. With that being said, even I’m a bit taken back by how heavily boost pads and springs are used here. And for what? Not even a cool action sequence or anything. They’re all there to push you through the level. Add in the plan out dull visuals (which adds to something I’ll get to later) and that level is just a mess to me. I greatly hope the rest of the game isn’t like this. Hell, judging from the OC gameplay segment recently showed off, it won’t be but I’m still trying to figure out what happened there.

One other thing I’m just not digging about the game atm is it’s lack of consistency. I was fully down for the tone set by the first part of the initial trailer but then you get to bright and cheery classic sonic and his sections and it all just leaves me… confused more than anything. It’s just such a stark contrast in the few levels we’ve seen that it just doesn’t make the overall package sit as well for me as it should right now.

On the other hand, I am absolutely psyched for the modern gameplay. I know the boost is a love it or hate it thing around here but I just can’t get enough of it. Blazing through levels like you’d think a creature that can run at the speed of sound would has always drawn me in and this game is no different. I know people will die by the classics having better gameplay than anything else in this series but, I’m going to be honest here... They’re very well made games, but they just don’t hold the spectacle I expect from a series where speed is a selling factor. Outside of a few instances in the most straight forward of levels from that era, I’d have to take people’s word for Sonic being “the fastest thing alive”. The modern segments aren’t stop and go like that. I won’t say that there isn’t problems with the formula (I’d be a fool to even try). But, personally, they’re the highlight for why I like this series. I just wish that the one segment we’ve seen so far was longer.

As for the character creator, have to say that I’m mostly for it. Fandom shit aside, I think the concept is pretty great. Create your own character, give them abilities, and have them participate in the main game. The gameplay for those sections look pretty great too. With multiple paths to take that warrants replayablility? Sign me up. Though, with that being said, I can’t help but be hesitant with it too. It’s something that can easily go south if they don’t utilize it well. Especially in story segments.

Speaking of story, I’m absolutely hyped for this one. While I know one of the pontaff duo are back for this (I’ve never really enjoyed their work), the narrative does seem quite a bit more focused this time around. Dare I say, the game may actually care about its story here. Again, with the people writing it I’m hesitant to say the least but everything we’ve seen on this front looks promising so far.

As for the game being a Generations rehash? Can’t say I really care atm. Could I have done without ghz again (especially with it being in Mania again already)? Yes. Would I have liked to have seen another new location like Park Avenue? Absolutely. But so far, this complaint has been pretty non-offensive for me. As long as the game seems fun and interesting, it could be a re-work of RoL or 06 for all I care. Speaking of which, now that we have Zavok back can we get Lyric here too; just for kicks? XD

Now, last and certainly not least for me, the graphics… just hot damn yes. I nearly cried when I heard them say Hedgehog Engine 2. Outside of that ghz level, everything in this game has been memorizing to look at. The lighting, the effects, the fucking reflections in the puddles! I love it all. Again, Sonic, from its very inception, pushed the boundaries of the hardware it was on. I’m grateful to see ST returning to this tradition.

So yeah, long story short I am still very hopeful for Forces and do like a majority of what I’ve seen so far. I recognize its flaws, but I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t more along the lines of what I want from the series than any other game from recent years. I fully expect my viewpoints here to step on some toes but that’s just the thing. This series has many, many forms it can take. There is no one hat to fit all here. Everyone has their own personal beliefs on what the perfect Sonic game “is” and what the series “should” be. The sooner we all stop trying to voice our opinion as “the truth”, the better.  I mean hell, the fact that this topic had to be made at all says a lot about the current state of things.

[Mark1]

I like this thread. It'll let members see how others interpret without it getting cluttered by different points (ironically that's what Forces is looking like right now  ).

As for my opinion of the game? As of right now I'm intrigued. I was a big fan of Generations, probably the best 3D entry in the franchise. Did a lot of things right and felt polished compared to previous games, and was the literal reason why I believed Sonic: Lost World would do decently (turns out I wasn't a fan and reminded of why 3D Sonic games have frustrated me in the past). So despite Sega urging that this would be "brand new experience" I was actually quite pleased to see Forces looking like a follow up to that game.

However, while I'm not as fussed about Classic Sonic's inclusion as others, I don't feel Sonic Team should focus their efforts on that gameplay anymore. Not when we have a very competent team working on Sonic Mania. 

I'm holding judgement on the boost gameplay until I see further stages, since the E3 demo felt like a short introductory level and I've not seen much in improvement from previous games. I like the formula, it's great fun - the most enjoyment I've ever had with 3D Sonic. Less automation and more 3D platforming control would be incredibly appreciated. As I said before I'll wait until I see more before concluding if I'm completely happy with it.

Not much to say on the OC gameplay - looks decent and a lot better than what I expected before the initial announcement.

Graphically think it looks quite good. Especially on the Switch. Thought they'd push more with the Hedgehog Engine 2 though.

Music wise I like the main theme and the OC levels. Green Hill needs improving - big time. 

Hoping Infinite isn't a new monster of the week though. That is my main concern at this point. As well as the lack of new stuff.

[Blue Blood]

45 minutes ago, Chaos the Ariel Wisp said:

That's where I disagree with you Blue. Maybe I have lower standards or whatever, but as long as the game is a little fun or enjoyable and is not a bug-ridden fucksucking mess like 06 or Big Rigs Over the Road Racing, then I'll be more than glad to try it out. Watching gameplay of other people playing doesn't cut it for me. I need to sit on my couch/bed and bingewatch the game over twelve hours until my eyes start bleeding Rings. 

And because most of them fucking suck at videogames.  

...

And I found 06 fun so whatever.

Guess it's an off one. I've played enough Sonic games over the years to say that I know what does and what doesn't sit right with me. It's not even just Sonic - it's applies to most games out there, and perhaps my biggest gripe with gaming entirely is when the player isn't in charge of the game of the game they're playing. It's a hallmark of almost any AAA game out there these days. It's not seeing how well people play a game that influences my opinions, it's instead seeing how well a game plays. That's where the fun and enjoyment comes from.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

I had no interest in the game until the villain reveal trailer. It completely changed my mind and now I look forward to the game. Hohooho! I love cool villains and boss fights more so then I do normal levels. I even enjoy Sonic 4 EP 2 for it's boss battles regardless that I didn't care for the rest of that game. I had no interest in Forces because of stuff as the hallway simulator Modern Sonic and fake Classic Sonic that doesn't understand the deeper concepts of real classic Sonic gameplay... And still don't like those things really. However the boss battles look awesome! the green hill zone Eggman boss that goes from a more epic version of the Sonic 1 green hill zone boss and changes to the Eggdragoon mid battle. The crazy spider thing mega bot from the Avatar level that is coming at you similar to the gun truck. And now I know we'll have a boss fight with Metal-Sonic my 2nd fave Sonic series character. Chaos should be a interesting fight and I like him good enough. Infinite has a awesome design and I really look forward to the character. So yeah I'm going to have fun with the game now. : )

PS: In the end I prefer to at least try to enjoy Sonic games if I can. I gain nothing by being against them.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Game play wise see this.  

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/04/the-spin-sonic-forces-me-to-write-this/

My thoughts have not changed one bit.

But now I have a lot more to say and will be doing a follow up on the UI. It's awful.

[Diogenes]

I struggle to find anything good to say about Forces. About the most I can say is that the graphics and music are mostly ok, though not particularly impressive and not uniformly good.

Regarding Modern Sonic: Oh wow it's boost gameplay again, that thing I hate. The only apparent improvement is maybe making the controls less stiff, but that's not nearly enough. What we've seen so far is the same narrow hallway 3D gameplay, the same bland platforming 2D gameplay, the same heavy handed automation, the same homing attack spam "combat", all the same. I was sick of it before Generations and I've only gotten more sick of it. Even putting aside my personal hatred for it, it's still clearly a severely limited and excessively costly style that cannot support a game on its own, which means until they ditch it we will always get cheaper-to-make filler propping it up.

Regarding Classic Sonic: This is just shameless pandering, repeating Generations' already cheap trick way too soon to even begin to be excusable. It still looks the exact opposite of fun, without understanding how slope physics and momentum are supposed to work for Sonic it's just a bland, featureless platformer with a bunch of springs and boost pads to force you to go fast, which comes off especially bad while Mania is sitting next to it and absolutely nailing the mechanics. And what the hell is this bullshit about him being from another dimension, now? What the fuck does this even mean, is there a dimension where Sonic didn't age, or are the classic games not canon to the modern dimension anymore, or what?

Regarding the Avatar character: Why. Why any of this. Already got 2 gameplay styles to work with, but they had to add a third, some mangled version of Modern Sonic except not very fast and with a gun. The "combat" seems basically meaningless, enemies being little more than bowling pins to knock down with weapons that cover a third of the screen. The grappling hook, an idea that I usually think is really cool, is reduced to a heavily scripted gimmick instead of something that could naturally tie into momentum-driven gameplay. The character designer seems geared to produce ugly, forgettable characters, with only a limited number of species to choose from and most of the visual customization coming from burying the character in accessories. And how many people really wanted to create their own character in Sonic anyway?

Regarding the allies: Please stop talking. I mean, being fair, none of the chatter we've seen has been outright terrible. But it's been 99% unnecessary and uninteresting, with seemingly every recurring hero showing up to babble at you, slapping a big ugly texbox in the corner of the screen. It's another side of Forces' "everything and the kitchen sink" approach and even this relatively inoffensive inclusion comes off as cheap and desperate.

Regarding the villains: The idea of Eggman somehow putting Sonic out of commission and taking over the world while he's gone had some potential. But they couldn't settle for exploring the implications of that, no, of course not. We needed five more villains on top of that, two of which shouldn't even be villains, four of which have turned against Eggman at some point, and one of which is some goofy looking new character who will likely turn out to be the "real" villain. The whole thing reeks of cheap fanservice, bullshitting all the villains together just for hype. Whatever explanation they have for this shitty teamup can't possibly be good enough to justify it.

In short: none of the gameplay looks fun and the story seems focused on pandering, shock value, and quantity of ideas over quality of ideas. I see nothing good coming from this, and it makes me want the whole Modern era to die.

[Bobnik]

This game is pretty much what I asked for - use Generations gameplay and create original content with original and somewhat interesting story. That's why I mostly like what I see and think it'll be a good game. That said, Classic Sonic somewhat disappoints me, mostly because of Mania. Hell, I don't think I'd be that miffed about him if Mania didn't exist, but with it existing, I do not really understand why is he needed here.

But even with that, most important thing for me is "will I have fun with this game". If I will, it's a good game in my books (unless it's fun for all the wrong reasons, which this game probably will not be). I don't like to be a person that goes "this is specifically what I want, if it's not like that, it's shit". I know what I want from games - I want them to be fun. Forces looks like fun.

 

Also saying "the game is bad" before the game comes out or at least before reviews is a shitty thing to say. There's a difference between "looks bad" and "is bad"

[Chili Dawg]

In July 2016 I was put off by Classic Sonic but overall intrigued.

In March 2017 I was intrigued but a bit underwhelmed.

In May 2017 I said oh fuck this shit.

In June 2017, Sonic Forces is a fanfictioneriffic trainwreck that is a clusterfuck of half baked ideas and no clear goal or vision that manages to keep making less and less sense with every reveal and I kind of need it in my life.

[Nepenthe]

Me and staff were talking about Forces last night and I summed up my position like this: Forces is a Sonic game I may have designed under a mandate, but it was taken by a 12 year old who made all of these dumbass changes to it, and for some reason I had no choice but to agree to them.

That's what makes me angry towards it. There's a lot in here for me to like either theoretically or in practice. I like that the game has a seemingly more competent and dogged Eggman and that there's tangible stakes. I like that the narrative asks for basic investment without crossing into embarrassing melodrama. I like that the extended cast beyond Tails is back and taking part to some extent (and subsequently I'm glad that we're back on a home planet, meaning it's harder to get out of not having them show up in these times of stress). I like that the only returning level we've seen has some significant aesthetic changes and new challenges that both make the level more worthwhile to visit again while simultaneously tying it into the narrative. I like the fact that we've gotten another playable character that's reasonably based on the modern gameplay's foundations rather than being a poor approximation of a different style altogether which, along with the Wisps, proves to me that there's been no objective reason why we've gone cold without someone else being playable for as long as we have. Finally, the game is graphically gorgeous, especially modern Sonic's level. All of this stuff appeals to me in a vacuum. I should be excited for this.

But nearly all of it comes with some sort of catch, like I wished for this game on the world's trolliest genie. Story wise, the reliance on dimension-hopping and potentially time travel is aggravating. With our limited context, it feels like an over-complicated solution for a simple problem while also acting as justification to bring in a bunch of disparate elements and enemies from games past for the sake of thinly-veiled fan service, aka it's Generations 2: Dark Edition, the thing I didn't want. Furthermore, with so much random shit now in play as per yesterday's trailer, no way all of it is going to get the development it needs to really shine and come together in a simple, cohesive narrative. This story has practically been set up to fail, although I will happily eat crow if it's well-written. 

Finally, it feels like an appeal to that utterly dumbass rule in the Sonic Bible that says the modern and classic games are in separate dimensions now, hence why Classic Sonic is suddenly an alternate dimension version of Sonic and not his past self. Not only does this cement the separation between the two, meaning it's going to be that much harder for Sonic to get a single cohesive gameplay style that takes the best of both worlds, but it's literally so unfathomable to me that most people in Sonic Team felt backed into a corner on what to do about the fact that the franchise played with different art styles and locations in a single dimension/universe that I almost want the people responsible for this decision demoted or fired.

I also don't like the fact that the established cast isn't playable yet again, especially in light of the fact that my Modern-lite alternative is instead the fucking Avatar. First, I'm not looking forward to sitting down and having to fiddle around with any kind of creation system in a platformer of all things, and I'm praying they have some pre-built designs to get me started so I can be done with it. Second, the species' abilities are boring and lazy as fuck- they're all based less in altering movement in really creative and appropriate ways and moreso in augmenting how damage is dealt or taken within a universal set of attack and movement parameters slapped onto the Avatar class, which only further brings down the reason to even have this for a fan community where no power or way of movement is off the table.

Third, it once again legitimizes something from the fan community that arguably had no business being legitimized by the games proper in the first place, similar to how Classic Sonic is now a "different Sonic" and thus his gameplay ideals can have no meaningful crossover into Modern's, and I'm worried that this shit is going to stick and be a new permanent staple (which is another thing; I can't in good conscious buy this game and try to bite the bullet through the stuff I don't like without fear that me purchasing it is going to come across to Sega as an endorsement of everything within it.) Fourth, I personally have never given a damn about seeing my characters playable in a Sonic Team game proper. I want to play as Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow in a 3D platformer again; established characters with interesting power sets that are ripe for the picking if Sonic Team would just do it. Why I can't have that but Timmy McBob gets a whole character creation system to himself is beyond me.

I seriously at this point just want either modern gameplay-only games that are three hours and thirty dollars instead, for every producer, director, and game designer of Sonic Team to be dismissed and to bring in some new blood who knows what the hell they're doing, or for the franchise to be given to someone else and for Sonic Team to disband- something drastic needs to change now. Current Sonic Team keep beating around the bush with design decisions that are as insane as they are boring in lieu of more elegant and creative solutions, and I'm tired of having to sift through the garbage just to appreciate the few bones tossed to me without any hint of care or passion. For fuck's sakes, Classic fans have gotten Mania and they seem to be utterly delighted. There's no excuse for this anymore.

[Kuzu]

I'm at work now, so I'll elaborate on my thoughts later. For now, this should suffice.

Pros: 

- Game looks gorgeous. Not quite on Generations level, but it's improved from Lost World.

- Gameplay is looking solid, particularly the custom hero since he he's the most divorced.

- The supporting cast, while still not playable, look like they'll actually contribute to the narrative this time.

- Story actually looks like it'll have proper stakes instead of the lackadacial attitude of the past few games.

 

Cons:

- Game feels like it's trying to do too much by adding so many elements and runs the risk of collapsing on itself. ( I touched upon this in my last status update)

- Feels very much like a mission packed sequel to previous boost games (particularly Generations) as there doesn't seem to be much improvement to the style.

- Potentially ruining characters like Chaos and Shadow, who both turned over a new leaf, by forcing them into being antagonists again.  

- The premise is too ridiculous to take seriously with proper care for tone and levity.

 

And that's all for now.

[doctorbenMD]

So, in July 2016 when it was revealed, I was excited because I like the modern games more than the classic games. And then they showed Classic Sonic. My friend who doesn't play a lot of Sonic games became excited *because* of Classic Sonic and GHZ, just how he was excited when the Kanto Pokemon got the spotlight in Pokemon Sun/Moon--it's filthy nostalgia pandering. And I realize I might come off as a dick here, but it's the same way how people "love" Batman, claim they love "geeky stuff" and all this Harley Quinn/lootcrate/deadpool bullshit. It's not really taking "the best" of the franchise--it's taking the part that's most noticeable by people who don't follow the franchise.

...but then they revealed the create-a-character. Which then *extremely* targets a far worse demographic. Fanfiction is gross and any of that nonsense is more gross. We already have a TON of great characters that people love (that host dude from the video 2 days ago who kept asking Aaron for Shadow info--yeah, he probably doesn't follow the franchise, but he's asking about Shadow because he knows how popular he is). But once we saw gameplay, I felt a little better? I'm still excited for this game because I know I'm gonna love the boosting Modern gameplay, and at the VERY least I'll be fine with the classic gameplay now that we've seen some footage, and the create-a-character might be fun. I'm open to it to a degree--but it still feels like the game is having trouble showing what kind of "vision" it has. 

[Celestia]

1 hour ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

I already posted my thoughts after playing, but one thing I'd like to go into more detail about is the lack of drifting. I feel like that means there's on need to drift, meaning less open stages. Not too optimistic about that.

I'm not really expecting super open stages, but I wouldn't say this is further evidence of it since you very rarely use the drift outside of sections dedicated to it. Generations' 3D sections were vaguely more ambitious than the previous games so there were some opportunities to use it more organically (main example that comes to mind is a few sections of City Escape Act 2), but yeah.

-

I guess my general thoughts on this game is that it looks like a typical recent Sonic game and I enjoy those even if there's some aspects of the current direction I'm not a fan of. The only surprise was the character creator which I'm fine with on it's own merits.

It's Classic I'd remove if I could. I liked him in Generations and honestly I'm not even that bothered by what we've seen of him here either, but he just feels so redundant, not only in context with another game (do I even need to say which one?) but even within this game itself. We don't need more than one Sonic in a game and there's also the avatar, so it's just...annoying, I guess. Also I'd rather play as Tails or Amy or something, obviously, but that's a pipe dream at this point.

The story I'm still genuinely interested in. Not much to really say on that front yet but I'm definitely intrigued. I'm kinda glad levels seem to have goals that are based in the plot in some way (even if it's as simple as "create a distraction here"), giving actual context to each zone / act is something I've been missing a lot the last few years.

So yeah, I guess I'm more optimistic than most. Worst I can say is that Green Hill Zone Classic's music is really grating and I hope it sounds better in final. :V