What YOU Think of Sonic Forces

[PickleBrows]

You can probably guess where I'M gonna go with this.  

I'm pretty excited for Forces as of late but in the interest of fairness I'll concede a few things before I get going and get to my inevitable positivity afterwards. If you want the short answer; there's nothing here I can say I dislike, some things really excite me and others and fine with taking even if I'm not that fussed with them.

Sonic Forces is perhaps not the direction they should have gone in following Lost World. Really with the extra development time they've had they should have been going back and deciding what Sonic means in 3D and building his gameplay blueprint that can be used long-term. Now it's clear that they're pretty content on the boost formula at this point which is fair, but it clearly can't stand on it's own two feet for a full game. The 2D sections and additional gameplay styles are more and more an indicator of necessity as much as them thinking they're worthwhile ideas.

We know the Classic Sonic was unnecessary with Mania coming but I'd put good money on this game being a fair bit into development when they caught wind of Mania. Had they known from the start I'd say there's a good chance he wouldn't have been in here, they know full well they're not gonna be competing with Mania with the engine they've got.

The Avatar character, with it's slightly altered Modern Sonic gameplay, really should have been the place to get some of Sonic's friends in on the action again. They're already playing a more active story-role this time so it'd have been nice to have followed that up by actually playing as them for some of the stuff they SAY they're doing over the radio. Seeing the Avatar alongside the other characters is probably always gonna look weird to us, maybe even slightly "wrong" but hopefully the younger crowd will actually get a kick out of that whole component as much as the developers are hoping. It's pretty clear the older fans aren't the focus on that one.

But alas, Sonic Forces does exist as it is. So in the context of what it's trying to be, how's it holding up for me?

Gameplay

Modern Sonic

Even now I still get a rush from the Unleashed/Generations style of boosting so I'm perfectly happy it's back again. Generations took the rush and backed it up with signs of expanding level design with the likes of Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill and my hope was that they would follow that up and continue to refine control and exploration. Forces seems to be trying to tone down the boost a fair bit and with reports of "looser" control on Sonic I'm hoping that these are indicators of wider level design coming in the game. The one level we've seen is certainly not providing that, but I don't think it's any worse than Modern Green Hill was so I'm fine with it as a first level.

Classic Sonic

I'm nearly indifferent to him until I see another level for him, right now it's looks like a level pack for Generations. I found Classic fun in Generations and I'm sure he'll be just as fine here at the worst. The inclusion of the Drop Dash is nice enough but it's clear Mania's gonna be where our Classic kicks are provided. His boss is cool enough and I like the bait-and-switch in the middle. Hoping there aren't any other nostalgia stages or bosses but if so, as many twists and changes as possible is welcome.

Avatar

I'd need to play this style to see how well it works but I'm liking the concept of your approach changing based on what you've got equipped, should make for some great replay value. Probably the best thing about this gameplay so far is how fluid the wisps have become with both the Burst and Lightning Wispons being far more seemlessly integrated than any previous wisp appearances.

Presentation

It's great to see them really pushing visuals again with the new engine, Unleashed might finally have some competion. Everything's suitably detailed and to see it all running at 60fps is absolutely stunning, fantastic to see that being carried from Lost World and hopefully it's the new Sonic benchmark.

The music hasn't set a foot wrong for me so far (yes, even Green Hill wasn't THAT bad to me, sorry guys I don't see it). The modern music seems nice and rock-oriented but I'm really loving the Avatar music. I've always loved the Sonic R soundtrack and this mix of techno-pop and cheesy lyrics is just fantastic on my ears. Park Avenue's earned it's spot on my MP3 player.

Story

Jury's out until we get more details to connect all this but I like the idea of Sonic going missing, Eggman taking over and the Heroes having to gradually take back the planet. Seeing all these familiar faces back in a more fleshed-out story should make for some great interactions. Very curious about Infinite, as well as the gang of past-foes and what their reasons and motives are for butting heads with Sonic.

 

I can completely understand why this game is confusing people or just outright not being to their tastes, although I'm admittedly surprised by just how much outright HATE it's been getting but hey, fair enough. If they had to go with the direction they have, I'm glad that they are at least really going all out with it whereas Generations felt like they stopped short. Looking forward to getting my hands on it!

  

[Endy]

This game is a mixed bag both positive and negative but overall I'm leaning towards negative. It's suffering from the biggest issue Sonic has faced since Sonic Adventure, automation. There are still so many parts in the game that are heavily scripted, even in classic Sonic's levels, shit like boosters or springs or flashy action sequences constantly shoving you forward with minimal input from the player, and for whatever reason they lazily include features like slopes and loops without understanding their original appeal. The level design is largely the same as in Generations, many of the 2d sections being very bland and blocky, and for whatever reason Sonic Team's idea of enemy placement in the Custom Character's stages are just a row of robots you can mindlessly mow down with your weapon. Classic Sonic's level design is cripplingly flat and without his physics (which seems doubly lazy because of Mania) only results in an uninteresting copy of something better. The grappling hook mechanic could have lent itself well to momentum based gameplay but instead for whatever reason they decided to make it situational and heavily scripted when it could have made for some amazing Attack on Titan-style or Spiderman swinging action. It's a completely undeveloped idea. I have no issue with the boost gameplay coming back, and I do actually like the one improvement in making the cooldown for using the homing attack shorter, making it not break the pace anymore, but the biggest issue I had with it was the lack of depth. A lot of the time the mechanics in boost Sonic's gameplay only serve to be in micro challenges, like how the quickstep, wall jumping and even basic platforming abilities are only to be used in specific parts of the stage the level designers want you to, and Forces unfortunately does not mitigate this problem.

I have no doubt that I will at least have fun with this game (because it has Sonic in it and I'm a stupid moron sycophant), but it's just disappointing because of what we COULD be having.

I have mixed feelings about the returning villains. I do like the idea of having a gang of bad guys team up on Sonic, but I don't know why they didn't just create new villains. I'm not the type to obsess over continuity in Sonic, especially in this game where these things are not relevant whatsoever and frankly do not matter, but it just seems pretty random to randomly have Chaos, Shadow and Zavok here for seemingly no reason other than "hey, you remember this, right? Please remember, please like this game!!". I do like how the action and adventure is more involved with the gameplay, something which was sorely missing from the last few games. 

I don't mind the character creator and Classic Sonic being in here too much. Frankly the character creator thing has been a long time coming and my only problem is that it looks pretty lame. The fans have created some pretty bonkers designs and they will most certainly not be able to replicate the fan character they have in mind with this editor. It doesn't look like you can edit hair, patterns or whatever. And classic Sonic is fine and all, but there is no point in bringing him along when they can't get his gameplay right. I don't know who either of these two things please other than the people who like the concepts on a superficial basis. 

As a matter of fact, this game only seems to please people who enjoy Sonic things on a completely superficial basis. None of these issues I said seem to be apparent to a lot of people, and lots seem to like this game a lot. I've seen some say that it's everything they've ever wanted. This leaves me very, very confused.

also the music is fucking terrible. Like, good god, who composed this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N29_SIddmeU

How was this approved? How can we be getting this along side the sweet tracks from Mania??

also, the the music in the recent trailer sounds like its ripping off a track from the last Tron movie. seriously, compare the two https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1eI-7XWjho

[Wraith]

I was initially drawn in by the game's premise. It was a simple set up in the teaser but also pretty unique. You have to charge through an Eggman dominated world and stop him. The objective was simple, but the scale was potentially huge enough to get any character you want involved. 

Then Classic Sonic appeared, and I was put off by both the story and game-play immediately by the end of the teaser, lol. Sonic's friends aren't gonna be the ones helping him and the game-play style was going to be split in two. I tried to stay optimistic after this, since I still liked generations, but every piece of info after this has just added another damper to this game that could have potentially been great if they had just left it alone. Custom characters who have another gameplay style. The classic levels kind of looking terrible design wise. The Modern levels looking more like Colors than Unleashed and Gens and not really showing any steps up from any of those games. The constant reintroduction of stuff that was in generations just...because. The plot immediately taking things too far in the other direction from Colors/Lost World like I had been fearing. Infinite existing. 

They're all little things, but they add up to me. I don't really hold any aggression toward the game or the people who like it, but  I'm not feeling it. Kinda disappointing for someone who likes Sonic but hasn't felt like buying one of the games since Generations. Was hoping this new HD title from Sonic team would be the one, but it's definitely not. I could be tipped into buying it on the cheap or borrowing it from a friend if the later modern levels look better, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

 

 

[molul]

My opinion is simple: I might buy Forces when it's on sale, for not more than 5€. Sonic Mania, I've already preordered it and I'd be willing to pay the double (fortunately not the case). 

Mania looks like a classic (in the sense of something that will remain good forever), while Forces reminds me why Sonic Team could never make a game as good as Mania.

[Fletch]

Meh. 

 

You know, back in 2011 I was actually one of the people that really wouldn't mind a Generations 2 (or just extra DLC levels added) because of how incredibly fun the game was. Yet, in 2017, it seems like we're getting that Generations 2 but under a completely different name and somehow the me of today just really isn't caring for it like the me of 2011. I think it's probably because nowadays I really don't care that much for the boost gameplay. I mean, I can still get some enjoyment out of it, but it's not really the ideal 3D gameplay I would have for Sonic seeing how I feel there's only so much you can do with the gameplay before it really starts to just feel stale and stagnant, and I feel now that Generations truly was that peak. I was actually quite hoping that SonicTeam would take what they had with Lost World and completely just refine it. Get rid of that run button, get rid of 2D sections, really touch up the controls, give us flat levels (like what we had in the Zelda DLC), or just in general do anything to make things feel like Sonic Adventure 1 but a bit more interactive with the levels thanks to Parkour (If that makes enough sense). Instead, they went back to the boost gameplay, and I don't hate or blame them for it because it has been one of the most praised gameplay formulas for them that they stuck with the longest and managed to refine over and over again. 

Modern Sonic here looks the best among the three gameplay styles, but that's probably because it doesn't look as uninteresting (Custom Hero) or lifeless (Classic Sonic) as the other styles. There seems to be a few changes to Modern Sonic that I like his overall control looking better, your boost gauge isn't filled up by rings, and even the homing attack looks a lot smoother when attacking multiple enemies. Yet it's still the same old stuff from the previous games that I'm kinda tired of. Automation left and right, the sudden shift from 3D to 2D (When will we finally just get a full 3D Sonic game again?), just boosting through a bunch of enemies in a hallway looking section in a level. 

Custom Hero doesn't really do anything for me. When the Custom Hero trailer was uploaded, I couldn't believe that SEGA actually went through with doing it. Yeah, from a business move it could come off as a smart idea because there's a lot of old and young Sonic fans that always wanted to create their own characters, and if the character creator has enough depth to really add to the gameplay then it could really be something cool, but for me, as someone who isn't that creative, never in my life thought of making a Sonic OC (or OC for any series I'm into for that matter) and care more about the original characters that SEGA has made for Sonic's world... This does nothing for me. I much rather have Sonic's other friends return as playables with their own gameplay styles that don't stray too far away from Sonic's gameplay but still as enough unique quirks exclusive to them (Basically give me how Sonic 3&K handled its playable characters). I've watched all the gameplay videos available for Custom Hero and just really don't care. Apparently he controls differently from Modern Sonic, the platforming isn't all that interesting, and you usually just have a line of enemies in 2D sections just waiting for you to blow right through them and that's it. None of it really does it for me.

Classic Sonic is still the one that makes me feel really confused. Like, wow. I went from outright loving him and being excited to play him in Generations to feeling really nothing here in Forces now seeing some gameplay and seeing how fantastic Sonic Mania is turning out to be. Why is Classic Sonic here? What purpose does he truly serve? "To help celebrate the 25th anniversary," but we have Sonic Mania for that. "To give us 2D gameplay," despire the fact that Modern Sonic already constantly switches back and forth between 3D and 2D, and SonicTeam's attempt at Classic Sonic 2D still looks very poor and shallow, especially when compared to Sonic Mania? There's no real good reason as to why Classic Sonic is back except to really just cash-in on nostalgia and to add more 2D into the game to grab Classic Sonic fans, and ignoring the whole nostalgia bait because this franchise does have a serious problem with using that, I think the biggest problem here is that SonicTeam has attempted classic gameplay before with Sonic 4 (along with DIMPS) and Generations, and both just were not how Classic Sonic was supposed to be like. They didn't get what made the Genesis games feel so great from a control and level design standpoint, and from the footage shown of Green Hill Zone here in Forces, they still don't get it. There's just way too much automation and hand holding that was shown off, and it's sad and makes me care even less to play Classic Sonic here in Forces. It honestly feels amazing that you give us a very special treat to celebrate the 20th anniversary, only to give us the same treat again for the 25th anniversary and completely miss what made it so special the first time around. 

Then there's the story where I am happy that it's a more serious tone from previous games, other characters are actually in the story and seem like they will be playing some sort of role within it, too. I say that if you aren't going to make characters playable then at least have the decency to use them within the actual stories to keep them staying relevant within the franchise. I like that Sonic's friends actually talk to you as you progress through the level, but I'm hoping there's the option to turn them off because I know not everyone wants to have to deal with hearing the same repeated dialogue over and over again when replaying specific levels. I was still on board with the story until like yesterday's reveal and now while I'm still optimistic regarding it, I know my optimism has dropped a bit than where it was at right before the reveal. Metal Sonic is there, fine. He's loyal to Eggman basically. Shadow is there... Why? His entire character arc goes against this, him "fighting for his own reasons" makes no sense because he would clearly be trying to help Sonic out and not oppose them. He could be mind controlled which would suck and be a boring way on getting him over to the dark side, or he could just be a different Shadow from earlier in SA2 story which...I can kinda see, but I can also see that just messing with the canon (or a different alternate canon) and this series already has problems with its continuity. Chaos is back and it's also a why? Then there's Zavok and it's like, oh buddy, SonicTeam actually remembers the Deadly Six and most of all actually wants to potentially keep using them which is a surprise. I liked them, I liked Zavok, so it's cool for me seeing him here in the game, but at the same time he's another character I ask "Why?" towards because he doesn't even like Eggman, so why would he even want to work with him? Don't tell me it'll be some sort of "I don't like you but we both don't like Sonic, so I'll work with you to get rid of him first but then I'll go after you" type of reason. Please no. Then there's the new villain character who I'm interested in, but also hope that they end up being well written and memorable and not just another bland Mephiles, but already I feel this new character has some sort of mind control, or time/dimension bending powers, which would then tie in on as to why Shadow, Chaos, and Zavok, those three characters of all characters are working on Eggman side when they either aren't villain characters (Shadow and Chaos on a technical level), or outright hate Eggman (Zavok). So eh. At least this is all stuff to really think about and it's a lot more engaging than the previous game stories were when first announced (I have so many questions here), and I think it still has potential of being a good story. I really feel that I'm more interested in watching the story unfold than actually playing the game, which is weird for me since this is a first. 

Oh yeah, music is alright from what I've heard.
 

I mean, at the end of the day, I do still think the game will be considered "good" (or mediocre) by critics and probably fans, but from everything I'm seeing it just doesn't look like it's going to be that groundbreaking game, or that game you really need to buy day 1. It feels like something you'd buy whenever you're in the mood and you remember it exist. I'm still getting it day 1 since I'm just that type of Sonic fan, but I'm not really all that excited to play it like I want to be. Sonic Mania? I feel like I'm outright counting the days until that release and I know I'm going to have trouble sleeping when the final stretch arrives. This? I'm sure I'll be sleeping quite comfortably during the final stretch. 

[Shiny Gems]

Well, I really like Sonic Forces so far. The story seems like it could be interesting, and I like the four villains plus the new Infinite character. I am in love with Modern Sonic's gameplay as well. It looks so fast paced and action packed, and I love the spin dash sound effect for the boost and homing attack. My only complaint is that they should have added more platforming in the 3D sections. Classic Sonic seems nice. As much as even I would admit he is a bit unnecessary, I liked him in Generations, and I am sure that I will like him in this game as well. Also, for the create-a-character, I do love it. I like how it is not so different from Modern Sonic's gameplay, and I like the Wispons as well, and can't wait to try them out. I do wish there were more species, though, such as a lemur and a horse or something less known, like a pangolin. or something. I do hope there are more species that come as DLC.

Overall, I am excited for the game, and I can't wait to see more about it.

[RosaRosaRosalina]

I...don't know how to feel. I want to form some sort of opinion on this game because it's got positives that I do initially like, but negatives that I know isn't favored by many people here (this whole thread is one whopping example of it) that makes it offputting for them. 

I like where the story's going with Eggman taking over the world and am honestly surprised they haven't done this already, music's also good (i mean come on it's freakin' sonic), including Classic Sonic, while questionable, is definitely something I can get behind (because I suuuuuck at the boost formula, like, really really really suuuck) and I think the avatar creator is interesting and could be fun for the youngings! (Or maybe just people with nothing better to do.)

Don't quite take these as negatives, but I'm a bit miffed on certain other things, like how everything seems to have taken a few steps...back? Doesn't seem like they're taking much initiative in fixing Classic's physics (not that I care, just needed to point it out which i also doubt no one else has) and the level design's a tad bit blocky. I'm also a bit let down by the fact that there's not much character interactivity excluding the Star Fox-esque communications (I can only dream of a modern Sonic title with multiple playable characters getting anything above a 7) and the fact that we're using the boost formula, rather than building on the Adventure like formula Lost World had going for it.

At the end of the day I'm just trying my damn best to be positive and hopeful for this game. I really hope that something good comes out of this despite its currently polarized reception.

[BlueFlare]

2 hours ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

I already posted my thoughts after playing, but one thing I'd like to go into more detail about is the lack of drifting. I feel like that means there's on need to drift, meaning less open stages. Not too optimistic about that.

(Also, I'm sorry, I feel like I sort of indirectly caused the problem here. I didn't mean to.)

Wut, no drifting?! That was definitely one of the gimmicks that I loved in Generations. Wait, Unleashed had drifting, too, didn't it? I haven't played it in a while so I don't remember. It must've been there, but with a different animation than Generations. 

Also, less open levels is sad. I'm not asking for super open levels, but running corridors gets boring quickly.

[Zaysho]

Honestly? Like, for reals for reals?

Forces frustrates the hell out of me. Everything about it feels like a bait and switch and I'm not happy with a lot of the decisions that have been made. The first teaser trailer was just the start of my problems. It has the kind of tone and atmosphere I'd like to see brought back to this series, giving it a sense of adventure and urgency to what I'm doing, making me care about it. Then the screen flashes that little blurb of "Even heroes need help" only to immediately kill my hope of seeing characters from the extended cast playable by inserting another Sonic into the mix. I don't think it helps that the first level revealed for Classic Sonic didn't look very fun to play. The physics and whatever else aside, I disliked how the second Sonic was about to run up to a ledge he could easily jump, he automatically hits a spring that shoots him straight up. And it happens several times in the stage to the point that it kills the flow. And then the tubes having boost pads at the beginning and end when you should be able to build up speed to go through them. It makes it feel too automated but with a complete lack of flare we have in the modern/boost style that I can at least accept, even though that's a bit shallow the way it's done too.

But I decided to give it a chance. "Join the Resistance" sounded pretty exciting too. Is Sonic going to team up with all his friends and allies? Maybe they'll show up in that capacity? Even the early impressions mentioned the characters speak to you during the levels, so that could've been something! And I know it's not a popular opinion, but I like that kind of cut-in dialogue, especially if it's not explaining the controls. I like the potential for characters to interact like that, I suppose. And hey, it's sounds like they're active this time instead of helpless victims or useless cheerleaders... wait, what's that silhouette...? A custom character? Why? I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind a mascot platformer like Sonic needing a self-insert character and I still don't see the appeal of it. If this were an MMO where you could actually just go and explore Sonic's world, that'd be one thing, but a mainline Sonic? It's also weird because, from what I can tell so far, they can go through the same levels the two Sonics can go through--they're obviously designed to work in the existing playstyles. Why isn't this just extended to actual characters? Tails would be perfect for a character that uses gadgets and hookshots to traverse the levels as an augment to his flying abilities. He doesn't need that sort of thing, but that'd be neat, wouldn't it?

And now there's what little we know about the story. It... seems interesting, to be perfectly honest. I'm scratching my head at the decisions of adding Shadow and Chaos to the villain roster. Zavok and Metal, okay, but why the other two? Even if we put mind control down as a possibility (or even some kind of time travel mumbo-jumbo where Eggman learned from his mistakes and took these two out of their original appearances and convinced them to work for him, same with Zavok, but that seems unlikely since everyone's looking for Shadow in the first level), it doesn't work with their character development at all. Shadow has already shown he can't easily be controlled, and neither he nor Chaos were ever truly under Eggman's control--they used him. I suppose the answer lies with the new villain. For all we know, he's the mastermind behind it all and is actually a third "force" in the mix and he gathered and captured the most powerful adversaries in Sonic's history and is making his move. I don't even know. I'm torn between it being potentially interesting and enjoying the speculation it inspires, but I don't believe the writing is going to be a marked improvement from what we've already had the last six years--I don't like the current style of writing from Sonic Team, almost as much as I don't like Pontac and Graff's localization work (but in fairness to the latter two, the in-level dialogue seems alright), but maybe there's a different writer in charge altogether and that's why the game feels like there's a shift in its presentation.

Other than that, the game looks gorgeous, that's no surprise. I like most of the music we've heard. I like the idea of the game itself. Hell, I just saw it running on the Switch today and I was like "Oh, they aren't going to make this another Unwiished? Maybe I'll pay a little more attention." I just don't like how it's being executed. Classic Sonic. Wisps. Custom characters. The first two are things just feel like crutches because of Sonic Team hasn't figured out how to make the main gameplay style more interesting and varied (I think it can be, personally, but it's obviously not being done in the current hands), the latter is just a slap in the face to me as a fan of the extended cast and I wouldn't be surprised to see THAT stick around just to get away from those characters again. It's not like the team that's at work on this game hasn't figured out how to implement other characters under a unified style. They worked on Black Knight which delivered exactly that. The custom character operates under this logic, why go this weird route instead of the more obvious solution that some fans actually wanted?

Who knows, though. The game could be good in spite of my grievances. There are things that are interesting about it, but any excitement I could have had is dampered by questionable and downright puzzling decisions that just make me say "Why?"

[ZinogreVolt]

I'm pretty positive about Forces, it just looks fun to me. I like the premise, the gameplay from what we've seen so far looks good aside from a few minor gripes and the presentation is downright incredible. The game really manages to bring out my inner 12 year old and that's not a bad thing to me. Explosions? Check. Sonic of both old and new? Check. My original character? Check. It just seems like a fun time.

[Blue Wisp]

3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

is when the player isn't in charge of the game of the game they're playing. It's a hallmark of almost any AAA game out there these days.

As in, automation and QTE and the like?

If so I agree with you. Games feel more like a spectacle than a game. And that happens with Modern - ESPECIALLY with Modern - gameplay. It's cool to see Sonic looping around once, but not the entire game. 

If not then whoops 

[Blue Blood]

51 minutes ago, Chaos the Ariel Wisp said:

As in, automation and QTE and the like?

If so I agree with you. Games feel more like a spectacle than a game. And that happens with Modern - ESPECIALLY with Modern - gameplay. It's cool to see Sonic looping around once, but not the entire game. 

If not then whoops 

Yeah. There are so many set pieces that play out exactly the same no matter how many times you play them. They make for great trailers, but unappealing gameplay.

[Johnny Boy]

Ok honestly for the most part I'm excited for Forces but regardless I still have my gripes. First off is classic Sonic. Dude come on, you already have mania what's the point in being here as well? I loved playing as him in Generations but I actively groaned when I saw him show up in the first teaser. I would have much preferred this to just be Modern Sonic's time to shine. And I know the storyline is that Eggman took lil classic out of the past, and he was there to foil the Good doctors plans, thus leading to the future being shit. But here's the thing, now I'm not all sure about that since according to Iizuka, Classic and Modern Sonic now live in different fucking dimensions and this seems to be backed up by Eggmans dialogue in the Green Hill boss fight. Ugh, why did Iizuka seem to think that all this was necessary?

Another issue I have is Chaos and Shadow being with the bad guys. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm overjoyed to see Chaos return and I'm still betting money on him and Shadow simply falling victim to mind control (or in the latters case, being a mole). But I feel like that there could have been better villain choices to bring back and be on Eggman's team. Hell this would've been a perfect opportunity to bring back Nack the Weasel or Erazor Djinn (especially considering that Secret Rings is canon thanks to that one scene in Generations :P), and I ultimately wouldn't have objected to Metal Knuckles, the tails doll, or the Babylon Rogues being on the dark side as well. 

But as for the positives, Modern Sonic looks like a blast to play and I especially love how he controls whenever you aren't boosting. I'm also loving how the characters talk to each other over the com link while Sonic goes through the level. Kind of reminds how the characters react to things in Sonic Heroes. And the OC's gameplay looks amazing as well and it has a rocking soundtrack set to its stages to boot. 

Finally, I'm VERY interested in how the story will play out since Eggman has finally achieved his goal in taking over the world, thus making me itching to find out the exact details of how he finally managed to pull it off and how he managed to get characters who turned against him in the past to be on his side. Ok Metal isn't too hard to figure out since he's Eggman's creation but that's besides the point. 

And while I hated the Deadly six I'm hoping Zavok and the rest of them can actually be better written this time around but that remains to be seen.

So yeah, despite some issues I'm overall looking forward to November.

[Milo]

This was supposed to be a game where Sonic Team had a solid amount of resources, in both the time and available staff allotted --for the first time in years-- to sit down, rethink their strategy, and correct course after missteps like Lost World, Sonic 4, and (to a lesser extent, since they only supervised the direction) the entire Boom initiative. Instead of learning from their mistakes and producing a coherent game that knows what its about for once, it looks like they spent their time just throwing in anything they can think of to try and please everyone; and the result they have presented with Sonic Forces is a game that looks like its going to be the hottest of messes when it releases. It likely won't be a buggy fiasco like Sonic 2006 or Rise of Lyric, but I'm expecting no less than a clownshow in that it's a unfocused mess of priorities across the board.

The gameplay should had been been a straight Boost game (or a continuation of Lost World, or some other third thing), with all of the necessary polish poured into improving the playstyle and keeping it focused on that. Not this amalgamation trifecta of boost gameplay, classic Sonic gameplay, and the gadget gameplay. A Sonic game based on using gadgets does hold some decent ideas, but they should had been made secondary to modern Sonic's gameplay or should had been saved for another game if they were really insistent on making an entire playstyle around it. Meanwhile Sonic Team should not had even bothered with Classic Sonic gameplay at all, because it's so obviously clear they aren't interested in doing it properly.

And speaking of the gameplay, I honestly think the level design is honestly the worst thing I've seen about Forces so far. It's like every complaint people have expressed about recent Sonic games (excessive automation / scripting, block platforming, large amounts of 2D, 3D hallways, etc.), Sonic Team responded by doubling down on it. The game's director is complicit in having this supposed to be the standard for Sonic level design and it really sucks for how amateurish, restricted, and overall how uninspired it is. Especially when placed up to what other upcoming platformers like Mania, Crash N-Sanity, Knack 2 (yes, even Knack 2), and Mario Odyssey are offering. Maybe there have been improvements made (to both classic and modern) and maybe the gadget playstyle is much better than it looks, but the level design isn't helping its image at all. It really isn't.

Same goes for the narrative. It should had been about modern Sonic and his friends taking the planet back from Eggman. Classic Sonic shouldn't had been a mile's radius near this game (irregardless if they knew Mania would become a thing or not), and the whole nonsense about him being from another dimension is only making it worse. The Custom Hero aspect should saved for a subsequent spinoff game at best, if not junked on the spot, because I honestly think the concept of playable fancharacters is inherently questionable as it is. Even moreso when given the concept of the game of Sonic and his friends acting as a resistance: the series' volume of other characters people have been asking to return as playable for years could had been easily adapted into this game in its place instead. And that's to say nothing of the recent E3 trailer with former villains showing up (Metal Sonic makes sense, Zavok is whatever, but Shadow and Chaos are very damningly questionable, they have existing character arcs that had already wrapped with conclusions for both of them that left them as neutral or heroic characters); and introducing a sixth new villain that could very easily be another monster of the week that will (likely) take the focus away from Eggman yet again. This also applies with the content here--throwbacks should had been minimal (if not existent at all) and reserved as a surprise; its ridiculous we can hardly to have a game with largely original/new content anymore. We're still having to deal with Green Hill reproductions and its entirely possible there may be more returning levels too. Like others has said, it just starts to come off as bad fanfiction on how it's just pulling all of these characters together. Except said fanfiction is actually being used as the foundation to build an real Sonic game.

That's not to rag on this game entirely. I like the concept of a game where Eggman has won. I like the idea of going for a more serious story approach, compared to the recent goofier games. The graphics and aesthetics looks really good, as expected. I like some of the music I've heard (though others are...much less to be desired). Unfortunately, that's honestly where a lot of my positives end, and they're largely outweighed by everything else I'm not happy about.

Like I said, it probably won't be a technical disaster, and I'm pretty sure that it might be "fun" in some areas. But I'm long past the point of settling for "good enough" Sonic games. Not when there are not only other games out there that are actually striving to reach a premium pedigree of quality. Doubly so when one of those games in question is also a Sonic game by a collaborative indie effort outside Sonic Team, that is actually delivering on virtually everything I and others have been asking for in a Sonic game in a long, long, long time. I honestly don't understand this studio and why they can't take a hint on what quality game design is, or properly act on feedback/criticism, or even the basics of good franchise management is over these past two decades; and Forces to me looks like its going to the absolute peak of their ineptitude on all three fronts. It really feels like they're just making stuff up for this game up in real-time (despite the game nearing the end of its production) as we learn more and more about it.

I really hope Forces' reception (and Mania's reception in direct contrast to it) triggers a clear response that results in Sega doing something about this studio and/or their relationship to Sonic. Replace their designers and executive staff, give the Sonic IP to another division / studio, almost anything that isn't continuing the status quo of developer incompetence running amok on the most significant series this publisher has. While Sonic has largely fallen out of favor with the mainstream, it is still Sega's one IP a lot of people (myself included) unironically give a damn about and want to see become good again. I cannot express enough how Mania is leaving a stronger positive impression by the press and community and all signs are pointing to it being the far better-realized Sonic game of this year--it is a blatant example of how a different team, despite having a fraction of the available resources (development time, money, staff, etc.) Sonic Team has, are putting more thought and craftsmanship into how they are designing their games.

[Kuzu]

Welp, I said I was gonna do this and so here we are. I had some time to think about it on my ride home and read everyone's responses here. 

I guess if I had to put my thoughts about this game into words, it'd be a resounding "Meh". This the most apathetic I have been about a Sonic game ever, because I don't even feel remotely interested or motivated to keep track of everything about it, that's how disinterested I am. I go over news and look at stuff mostly out of curiosity, and every new reveal doesn't even sway my opinion a little bit. 

Because when I think about it, if this was 15 years ago and I was 8 years old and saw this game, I'd probably lose my fucking mind. It has ''everything'' that drew me to the series to begin with. The idea that Eggman takes over the world and assorts a group of villains to help him with Sonic and Co. fighting back among a resistance group sounds fucking awesome. If I didn't know any better, I would be totally down for this game, quality be damned. Because it's Sonic, and he's cool.

So before I start rambling, let me get to my point. The reason why I feel this way is because, despite this game seemingly catering to every one of my 3D Sonic tastes, I literally cannot shake the sense that everything about this game is so horribly misguided and mismanaged. I'm going to describe my feelings starting from last year when that teaser trailer came out.

- I see Sonic standing in a ruined city with a determined expression on his face surrounded by Death Egg robots. My mind is thinking "Finally, they're going to attempt to actually add stakes for once. Good shit." And then the tagline "Heroes need help" and then I start thinking "Oh shit, my boys Tails and Knuckles are finally back. The Goons are back" and then....Classic Sonic appeared. That was it, that told me everything from the getgo. This wasn't a revisiting of the tropes I loved about 3D Sonic, this was cashing in on the Generations hype with the "epic" story as the window dressing. And lord and behold, every new reveal after that just confirmed it even more. Most would think "Oh Kuzu, you're just overreacting. Just wait and see" And yea, it is a bit of an overreaction, but you know what, I don't care. I'm not gonna ignore how I feel.

And every new reveal just showed the same shit that I've seen from Sonic Team for the past 9 years. The "throw everything and the kitchen sink at them" approach, where they bombard you with a bunch of fancy shit, but don't actually give you much concrete information to work with. And no this isn't me saying I want them to reveal every detail about game, but rather information that's actually relevant; things like "How have you guys improved the game? How do the mechanics feel? Did they improve over the last entry?" No it's just "Oh hey, look at Sonic do this cool thing. Are you excited yet?" 

So now we've come to the point where this game is basically "Sonic Generations 2: Fanfic Edition", a celebration of everything "good" about the series. And by good, I mean "Let's take all of the things people hated the least or have been screaming the most about and agglomerate them into one game. We're bound to please somebody. Cohesion and Consistency be damned" Gameplay based on Colors and Generations? Check. Classic Sonic for the classic fans? Check "EPIC STORY" Check. Using past villains for a team up? Check. Making your own fan character? Check. Everything about this game just screams that they're trying to appease to as many people who still like or loved the series at some point in time. And past experiences with doing shit like this, experimenting by throwing things together haphazardly, is how we ended up with games like from the Dreamcast Era, and some from the Modern,  where only a small portion of the game is actually worth a damn while the rest is some incomprehensible mess and that mess usually takes up half or up to 2/3rds of the game.

And the sad part? On a purely technical level, the game looks fine. It plays well and follows the design philosophies of two of the most successful 3D Sonic games. Nobody can tell me the game will play badly, but it's presentation is what I got a problem with. This game has so many elements that are simply unneeded and only serve to split opinions even further than they already are. Why does this game  feel the need to do this? Why do we have to keep cherry picking parts of a game to like while condemning others and then arguing among ourselves what those good and bad parts are. 

All of these elements are thrown in for the sake of fanservice and appealing to fans of that type of stuff, but never actually stops to think about if these things actually fit in context of each other. From a purely business standpoint, it makes sense. Adding things that people liked is self-explanatory really, you wanna hit as many marks as possible. But what Sonic Team continuously have missed the point is on repeatedly is actually making sure these things are organically placed, and ya know, GOOD. Why did we need an OC creator when you could have easily used Tails or Knuckles in the exact same role? Why are you throwing together these random assortment of villains, two of them being reformed? I shouldn't have to ask these questions.

Now I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt if these things end up actually making sense and it's well written, but it's still part of an assortment of ideas that I'm really not fond of and just serves to alienate people who aren't into these specific things they are trying to cater to. But you know what, I understand. This is what the kids and more open-minded fans want Sonic to be; something that's entertaining on a surface level and is competently sound enough to be enjoyable at best and inoffensive at worst. It's how Sonic was able to get a modicum of respect back after years of mediocrity and what Sonic Team have accepted as the "right" approach for the series. And that's perfectly fine. I'm glad a younger generation of Sonic fans can enjoy these games for what they are, and that some fans are open-minded enough to be satisfied with anything that's not terrible. But I'm not one of those people...

I have tried so very hard to understand why people love these games so much, because I see so many people love them to death and get so defensive when they're criticized. And while I do not hate any of these games at all. Like I said, they are perfectly sound and functional titles...but I'm going to need a game to go beyond the minimum requirements of being merely "good" before I start singing their praises. They're just gonna be "good" for me. Nothing amazing, but nothing terrible either and while I don't mind playing games that are simply "good", I have no interest in following a series that settles on just being "good". There are companies that are putting way more effort and time into their products than what I feel Sonic Team are putting into Sonic right now, and I feel they deserve my time more than this series does.

I want to like Sonic Forces, I really do. But everything about this game is antithetical not only to good game design, but what I feel a Sonic game could and should be in this day and age. So in the end, what do I think about Sonic Forces? It's a game from a series that I love that has widespread appeal that I simply have no interest in. And that's how it is. Sonic Mania has everything I love about 2D gameplay and I am genuinely excited, but I guess it's too much to want the same care and attention that went into that game out of a 3D game.

 

TL;DR I have better games to be playing, like Sonic Mania.

[Dr. Detective]

A few months ago, back before the Forces trailer was released, I was in a very bad position when it came to any kind of viable positive outlook on the Sonic franchise going forward. Everything I liked and grew up loving within the series felt as though it was being slowly fizzled out in order to make way for a direction that catered only to someone else's nostalgia and didn't have any interest to appeal towards taking what it established its modern incarnation as and placating a sense of growth and discovery for what it could be and not what they thought it needed to be in order to quell the ire of a bunch of assholes working in gaming journalism. 

That all came to a head when the initial trailer for Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces were released one after the other. Sonic Mania, I recognized immediately was a very good, well put together, well thought out version of what the people who love Classic Sonic would probably like to see within a game that catered to their interests. 

Then the Sonic Forces Debut Trailer started and I realized it was probably my turn. And the first 59 seconds of that trailer was the absolute most excited I had ever been for a Sonic game since 2008. And even back in 2008 I don't think I sweated as much or felt my heart race as much as it did when I saw what I thought I was seeing. All of a sudden the idea that they weren't completely abandoning the very concept of having a climactic narrative structure ever again was allowed to creep back into my mind. I saw the text that said "Even heroes need help" and allowed myself to believe that this minor step forward could become a massive one should they allow my eyes to witness Tails in all his fast, two-tailed, geeky, would-probably-wear-Transformers-Underoos-If-he-wore-clothes-because-he's-a-cute-little-nerd, glory!

And then at the 59 second point in the trailer, I saw Classic Sonic.

And immediately when I saw that fucker, blood sprayed from my eyes as he reached through the computer monitor, grabbed me by my neck, and body-slammed me threw a table like a I was one of those jobbers who wear the pink trunks in wrestling.

For months every new piece of information I heard about this game afterward made me fucking mad. I was just astonished, stunned, nay flabbergasted, that they had the cock-shitting nerve to get my hopes up (higher than they'd EVER been for fucking YEARS! ALMOST A DECADE EVEN!) and then dash my hopes harder and faster than it took for Monkey D. Luffy to punch the virginity out of Bellamy with a fist to the face. 

All I was asking for was a full-on 3D Sonic the Hedgehog experience where Sonic would go on an actual adventure again with his friends. That's all I wanted. I know they don't have to cater to me as an individual but it's not like what I was asking for was a lot. I'd probably been fine with the character creator bollocks if it meant I still got to play as some of the others even. Up until that trailer with the famous Bubsy 4D silhouette I went on many a rant about how everything was stupid and how the Sonic series was now a playboy that struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more. How his existence was now just a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

And then the character creator thing was announced. 

Initially, I found the whole thing embarrassing and I avoided re-watching that trailer because it made me cringe (and it still does) but, I also found myself lightening my mood a bit. At the time I was confused as to why but I eventually began to realize it was because the fog around what the FUCK they were trying to do was clearing up a bit and I was able to picture in my head an idea of where they were going with it. It was an idea that was still full of holes, mind you, but I didn't feel as though it was completely directionless anymore.

Cut to now, and all of a sudden, all the stuff that I care about the most; the characters, the story, the atmosphere, the dialogue, the fucking climactic presence of a threat... was suddenly all being addressed again. And not in a half-assed, hand-waved, "Oh here's Silver I guess. Fake sent for the chaos emeralds. That's good enough. Har har har" but in a way that's currently making me feel like they may actually give a bit of a fuck about what they're writing here. Not just writing but also how it's being localized too? With that, every new thing I've heard and seen hasn't made me angrier anymore. In fact, a lot of it has made me more excited, to the point where I feel I can anticipate getting my hands on this game now.

As of this moment, my thoughts vary on a lot of the game's elements but on the whole, I'm in a comfortable middle-ground. 

On Modern Sonic: As I've stated before, I've never been one of the people whose given too much of a shit about the complicated inner-workings of a particular gameplay element. As such, all that really matters to me is if I'm having fun. If I'm not having fun, I'll try to look into it and discover what it is about the thing I'm playing is making me no longer have any fun and once it's identified, I'll want it removed. Often that doesn't require me to talk about momentum, rolling physics, boost pads, and whatever else people don't like about the Boost formula. However, I've always found it fun. There's still a part of me that cares enough about level design to recognize that it's still not a good thing for Sonic to be going in a straight-line for the majority of your level, even if it is the very first stage. That'll be something I'll probably notice should that itch for adventure feel like it's not being scratched due to being stuck in an enclosed space for too long. 

However, one thing I must comment on is how unnecessary the 2D perspective coming back for him is once again. Every time any PR person says that this game is split between 2D and 3D they're fucking lying because it's literally not the case. It's 2D and 2.5D and it needs to stop. Aside from that, this is the most positive aspect of the game from a pure gameplay perspective in my eyes. It's the one thing I was able to look at and, despite recognizing minor issues, knew I was going to enjoy at the end of the day.

On Classic Sonic: Even at the point I am now with the more positive feelings I have regarding Forces, there are still elements about it that I don't like and don't think make any sense. And with every new thing I learned about Forces, I grew another tumor within the folds of my brain demanding the answer to the question "Why is Classic Sonic here?" Even before the 3rd gameplay element was officially announced it felt so awkward thinking about his inclusion. The premise of Sonic and friends fighting off Dr. Eggman was alright by itself. Nothing screwy there. Oh but look, Classic Sonic is here too. And you won't be playing as any of his friends. But you'll play the shit out of him. And then when the custom character thing was officially revealed it only made it worse. Just have it be a thing where you make your character and have him fight along Sonic to stop the Eggman's master plan. This isn't the same as the time he reappeared in Generations. He can only be seen as a desperate, corporate, marketing ploy now. But that's all aesthetic nonsense. What about his gameplay...?

 It looks like it did in Generations... and again, I don't really care about talk of rolling and what not but I tolerated him fine in Generations and only really found myself squeezing fun out of him when I was able to equip the homing attack onto him. I'm not a Classic fan. I can't play those games. I feel like I have arthritis every time I try. The way Classic Sonic plays is definitely easier and more toned down to a point where I can reasonably finish his stages but unlike the Werehog, which had the added benefit of a 3D space to distract me, this might just be another thing I play through so I can get to the next Modern Sonic stage. Going into this, there was no way it wasn't going to be my least favorite of the three... unless the 3rd character turned out to actually be a completely different kind of gameplay style all together, which I doubted it would.

On the Custom Character: It's embarrassing. Just getting that out of the way. The idea in and of itself is embarrassing and seeing the OCs on official posters for this game really does make it look like a confusion mismash of elements you'd see in someone's deviantart front page. If I were making the game I wouldn't have included it at all... however, it's pretty harmless as a concept in and of itself. If I'm reading the context of the story right, you're most likely just playing a soldier in a war against the good doctor and if that's the case then, alright. From a story perspective, that's a sound idea I suppose. Before I heard the in-game dialogue I was fretting over the idea of witnessing Sonic cringe-talk to your character about how their new best buddies and how they'll save the world together and blegh. Cinos/Rad/Mike the Hedgehog being buddies with Sonic doesn't interest me. It doesn't! Fuck him! Give me more Vector!

From a gameplay standpoint, I'm a tad worried. A tad excited. I want to see how these Wispons work and which ones I'll be able to froth out some meaty entertainment from. At the same time I worry that what he has that limits himself from Modern Sonic might hold him back from being as good as he should. Then again, that isn't too big of a worry at this point considering what little I've seen of him in action and how it's relatively harmless. Again, I don't care about stuff like the Buzz-Bombers being in a straight line. Whatever.

On the Allies: YES! OH GOD YES!  Sorry but I'm gonna have to vehemently disagree with anyone who says they should stop talking. They did that for about a good long decade for all I'm concerned. Yes, that's an over exaggeration but I don't care goddammit. I could listen to the Chaotix say stuff in my ears for hours! That'd be the ultimate ASMR for me. If hearing characters talking annoys you then I suppose it'd be beneficial to have a function in there somewhere that allows you turn it off if you want. I guess. But this is only ever been something I've heard complained about when it comes to Sonic so maybe that's a special thing. Either that or I really need to play more games and see if they actually do come packaged with a function like that. 

It goes without saying that a lot of the good will I've had towards Forces recently has been because of what I've seen presented within the character's dialogue. They're actually talking to one another, for one, which is an immediate step up from Generations where they had... a line or two and then fucked off to their corner of the white space. Sonic never once spoke a word, not a SINGLE word to any of the characters in that game who weren't Tails or Eggman. He didn't even chat shit at the Rivals. The people he was literally fighting. It's so strange. Who designed that game to be so devoid of life? 

But aside from talking to one another, a lot of the hints given by what they're saying within the stages actually feels like context for what's happening around them and isn't just them shouting warnings or gameplay mechanics at you. It feels SO GOOD knowing that Sonic is running through a level with an actual reason and goal in mind. Shadow's somewhere in the city. We're looking for Shadow. Go find him. We found him! What's his deal? Why's he seemingly on the side of the bad guys? Context and clarification resolving around things that are happening within the plot! Finally! It's not that bloody hard to do. Thank you for doing the bare minimum again. Jesus Christ.

On the Enemies: Contrary to a lot of what I've heard on here, I'm actually not all too worried about who they've got in this line-up. Seeing Shadow's face after they said "A new evil" made me laugh actually. I can explain why too. For one, what little context the game gave me regarding Shadow puts forth the idea that the characters have indeed recognized he's doing something and have gone off looking for him. Therefore, the context from the get-go isn't just, "Here's Shadow, now fight him" like it was in Generations. Secondly, even in Generations, he wasn't actively on the side of the bad guys but that can be hand-waved due to the fact that the reveal trailer is putting forth the idea that this is a team up. It could just be bad PR but it also stands the chance of being the truth, in which case other possibilities remain present, such as time-travel or the fact that they're mere fakes. I have no reason to assume that they suddenly just decided to ignore Shadow's character growth here because despite it never having any focus after all these years, he's very much been someone they've recognized is still on Sonic's side regardless. From a logical standpoint, based only on what they've shown, it stands to reason that there might be an actual reason for this more so than "Oh we just forgot." And that's something that I feel works towards making me feel a bit excited should it be true.

I won't say that it'll assuredly be an ideal solution but I'm certainly not going to say that whatever they come up with, it'll be a disappointment. There's not too many avenues for them to go if I take that stance.

Metal Sonic needs no explanation. Chaos and Zavok are interesting cases though. I look forward to seeing what the game will do to have it make some sort of monocure of sense. The fact that the PR specifically notes that Shadow "fights for his own reasons" and Chaos was originally "thought to have been quelled after the events of Sonic Adventure" but now his involvement here is "a mystery" keeps me from placating on the same level as the extreme laziness of what Generations did. And it's certainly true that one could look at what Generations did, ignore all this, and assume it'll be the same. I wouldn't hold it against anyone because, quite frankly, I'd consider myself a fool if I were to ever put 100% faith in something Sonic Team did. However, I do feel like they've already given us a ton more in the vein of actual context then Generations did with it's fucking slide-show so I'm naturally left with the feeling that there will at least be something. And getting something goes well towards feeling like things have improved, if only a little bit, when it comes to the story.

Zavok, I have no clue what his explanation could be though. He's got glowing eyes now though. That's weird. I'm not bothered by him showing up of course. I've said this before but despite recognizing how simple his attitude and character is, he was responsible for making me care about something that was happening to one of the Sonic characters. That was a feeling I hadn't felt in a long time at that point and while it was eventually trampled on by the narrative, I'm thankful for that one moment regardless. #RoboFox.

On the Story: The new guy's name is Infinite. He looks neat. His symbol looked cool locking itself in place in the trailer. I know nothing about him so I'm going to hold off on judgements about him too. Once again, I understand the fear that he'll just take over Eggman's spot as the main villain again but I'm skeptical of that being the case considering how that hasn't been a thing since Unleashed in 2008. And even then I still considered Eggman the main villain of that game but that's just me. Since Unleashed they've been trying as best they can to pimp out Eggman as the big bad. Even with the Time Eater, back when people were saying it was going to betray Eggman and be the real main villain, people didn't realize that that would require it to have thoughts and a personality. And it didn't. The two Eggman's just turned it into this ugly mass of screws and bolts and ... it was like the worst design for anything ever. I really hate the way that fucking thing looks. It's just a black cloud... with a face. And then Eggman put some huge ass gears on it. What the fuck were they thinking?

But yeah, I'm still getting the vibe that this is mostly Eggman dominating everything so that's good. I've seen some people angry that he needs help from this "God creature" but I suppose I was a bit more prepared for it considering the signs for it were already there. We knew there was something screwy going on with the plot from the get-go due to how a lot of the present elements don't make sense to have around without some sort of explanation for how they got there. I suppose they could have just said that Eggman built a dimensional portal or something but whatever. There was a 50/50 chance it'd be a sentient being that did it too and turns out that was correct. 

Either way, I'm delighted that we're seemingly getting a story again that feels like it may actually have some goddamn climactic and fun shit in it again. Cool goofy shonen anime bullfuckery like I've always imagined Sonic would fit right at home with. More of this forever. And if you decide to go full-comedy again, don't do that lazy, standing around and pointing out how fucked the series is thing again. Go full-on Jojo's Bizarre Adventure with it. Alright? Sonic one of the most animated video game characters in history. He shouldn't feel like he's just talking for the sake of getting over the fact that there's nothing for him to do.

 

And that's Pre-Forces for me. If I were making Youtube videos at the moment this would be the script for it. I doubt anyone's going to read through all of it but hey, I had a lot to say. 

Forces used to be a really disgusting Sweenie Todd meat-pie to me. Now it's more like a beautiful and delicious Strawberry cake that SEGA dumped a bunch of rusty nails into.

[Sean]

I think this game looks fine. Maybe not fantastic, but what Sonic game has been lately. I enjoyed Unleashed, Colors (less so than others), Generations (probably the most replayable 3D Sonic game for me, even though Unleashed is my favorite), and Lost World well enough. I'm sure I'll like this one about as much.

I'm not hyped for it either. I generally have middling expectations for Sonic games and so there's very little Sega can reveal about a new Sonic game that would severely upset or excite me. Honestly I can't get into Sonic discourse anymore; it's still one of my favorite game series for sure, but it's no use for me to argue about them or even get mad at Sega for not giving me what I want. And I am at least getting part of what I want, which is a new classic-styled Sonic game, so I don't think the series is in a complete rut. Maybe not as golden as during the classic/Adventure days, but definitely nowhere near as repellent as the post-SA2, pre-Unleashed games, and it's in a state that I can happily enjoy on a casual level. So, I think I'll like Forces.

[Soniman]

26 minutes ago, Sean said:

I think this game looks fine. Maybe not fantastic, but what Sonic game has been lately. I enjoyed Unleashed, Colors (less so than others), Generations (probably the most replayable 3D Sonic game for me, even though Unleashed is my favorite), and Lost World well enough. I'm sure I'll like this one about as much.

I'm not hyped for it either. I generally have middling expectations for Sonic games and so there's very little Sega can reveal about a new Sonic game that would severely upset or excite me. Honestly I can't get into Sonic discourse anymore; it's still one of my favorite game series for sure, but it's no use for me to argue about them or even get mad at Sega for not giving me what I want. And I am at least getting part of what I want, which is a new classic-styled Sonic game, so I don't think the series is in a complete rut. Maybe not as golden as during the classic/Adventure days, but definitely nowhere near as repellent as the post-SA2, pre-Unleashed games, and it's in a state that I can happily enjoy on a casual level. So, I think I'll like Forces.

Pretty much 1:1 eactly how I feel I have nothing more to add. Sonic games are still fun to me, the game looks fun, nothing about the gameplay looks like something I cant have fun with. Ive come to stop being overly invested and take the games as they come, and if they look fun enugh ill check it out. And on its own Forces looks like a fun time, it wont be winning any awards from the looks of things but I dont really need it to personally

[Sean]

Yeah. It's not that I'm "settling" for a lower standard of quality, I don't believe that I am at all, because I do think the current standard of Sonic games is quite pleasant. It's just that I don't feel like typing three-page posts on forums anymore about what I want or don't want in a Sonic game. I'm almost 30 years old, I feel like I can't be bothered anymore lmao

[Blue Blood]

4 minutes ago, Sean said:

Yeah. It's not that I'm "settling" for a lower standard of quality, I don't believe that I am at all, because I do think the current standard of Sonic games is quite pleasant. It's just that I don't feel like typing three-page posts on forums anymore about what I want or don't want in a Sonic game. I'm almost 30 years old, I feel like I can't be bothered anymore lmao

Personally speaking, I feel that I'd be settling for a lower standard with Forces. Although I enjoy Generations, it has many cut corners in its game design. They're the sort of things that I can accept and turn a blind eye to for only so long before I get totally fed up. The issues that I've got have existed since Unleashed at the latest, so that's nine years of problems not being addressed. It's made worse by the fact that this game lifts two of its gameplay styles from Generations without any real improvements. There's also Mania out there that so much higher quality that Forces only feels lazy, if not totally arrogant, by comparison. 

And that's entirely separate from the presence of this custom character malarkey. 

[Alienrun]

This game sucks.

...

...okay that's over simplifying it too much. I'm pretty much agreeing with the majority of things, game will be fine...but fine isn't good enough. CaC is stupid though, like REALLY STUPID and I'm honestly surprised people are defending it. This flat out doesn't belong in a sonic game, it flat out tells me Sonic Team doesn't care about me as a person and only wants to sell as many copies of there games as possible via cheap fanservice...THAT'S what bothers me the most about all this. (Ironically the villains have me interested though, which I'm not sure if I should be.)

To put it another way, this game has been in development for as long as Mario Odessey...and look at where that game is!

Just let that sink in for a moment...

TL;DR Sonic Team is stupid, it used to be because they couldn't make good games...now its because they let there "successes" get to their head too much and take praise WAY to literately.

I enjoyed Secret Rings as a kid when it was new...that was 10 years ago! I don't wanna be running in straight lines anymore! WE SHOULDN'T BE HERE ANYMORE!

[Soniman]

As always I'm not saying people don't have legit reasons to be mad about the CaC but once again I don't mind it,not even when it was first announced. I've been so used to sonic only for over ten years that seeing that trend continue makes me feel nothing, if it happens great but if they wanna take a half step first with this OC buisness I'm all for it, it basically is just modern Sonic with extra abilities which is what a alternate character should be in the first place. I can only hope if this goes well we can start seeing alternate characters slowly reintroduced to the fold again. It's smart from a buisness standpoint, fits the theme of a army facing Eggman's forces, and would appeal to kids, which this game is mainly being made for after all. This is faaaaaaaar from the worst gimmick this series has done imo. 

[Alienrun]

4 minutes ago, Soniman said:

As always I'm not saying people don't have legit reasons to be mad about the CaC but once again I don't mind it,not even when it was first announced. I've been so used to sonic only for over ten years that seeing that trend continue makes me feel nothing, if it happens great but if they wanna take a half step first with this OC buisness I'm all for it, it basically is just modern Sonic with extra abilities which is what a alternate character should be in the first place. I can only hope if this goes well we can start seeing alternate characters slowly reintroduced to the fold again. It's smart from a buisness standpoint, fits the theme of a army facing Eggman's forces, and would appeal to kids, which this game is mainly being made for after all. This is faaaaaaaar from the worst gimmick this series has done imo. 

So I wouldn't say its the worst gimmick per say, just the most insulting one...okay maybe not THE most insulting one but its up there.

Only contenders I can think of are hover boards and whatever the heck Sonic 4 was...but besides those the CaC just screams lazy, like...its just not appealing, I'd rather have Shadow coming in with blazing guns and a hookshot, I'd rather have Coldsteel HIMSELF come in and steel the show, those characters have identities, the CaC doesn't.

Like answer me this, how okay would you be if the game was JUST the CaC and nothing else? Yeah that would make for a great spinoff game but it would have to be handled very VERY well for it to work. People forget that Dragonball Xenoverse wasn't good just cause it had a CaC, that was only a small part of it.

I can already hear you say "well it would be better than Sonic again" but honestly that just sounds like change for the sake of change. Shadow got his own game and look how that went.

Finally I don't imagine Sega is going to introduce more characters being playable if the CaC is successuful...if anything they might just keep using him over and over in order to justify Sonic's friends NEVER come back! NOBODY wins if that happens...

[Faseeh]

I'll begin by saying, wonderful OP @Blue Blood, it was a good read and although we may disagree about Forces, it was very well justified.

So me and Forces? I'm excited. Honestly, the reason I got into Sonic was the world and its lore as much as how fun the games were. Forces looks like it'll have this both and that satisfies me. I hope the story doesn't chicken out and actually makes use of what it has - a lot of characters, a disastrous situation (in which I want to see how Sonic will react), the clash of dimensions. Maybe too much, but at least make use of the extended cast. The in-game dialogue actually gives me hope. 

The Boost gameplay I actually like, so there's no issue there. It's a pity Parkour has been just thrown away. I really wish slowly Sonic Team would take ideas from all their gameplay styles and add it into the Modern gameplay. Of course, Modern Park Avenue's level design got me hopeful and then disappointed me. I wish the rest of the game at least tries to recreate the Modern Seaside Hill magic. 

Classic Sonic was inoffensive in Generations and I hope it stays that way this time but the level design in Green Hill... no man, it's really bad. Hopefully, just one stage.

Custom Hero... eh, I was shocked but I'll just make Boom Sonic or the Rabbit character design we had for Sonic before or Mighty and call it a day. I think it's a cool idea but not something I'm invested in. The Wisps being locked onto just this character is something I'm completely okay with, but god I wish they'd explain the wisps' return but fat luck on that. Not going to happen. Oh and I hope that if Forces succeeds... Sonic Team gets more confidence to make darker stories... not to make the Custom Character return. I want my extended cast to be back and important man. 

The game looks good... I need to see more lively, beautiful things though. This is not Generations or Unleashed levels of spectacular to me, but it's good. That said, Chaos Zero looks SO cool. Music... I'm disappointed. As a musician, I love most Sonic OSTs, but Lost World, Runners and now Forces look like they will disappoint. I have nothing against Ohtani - he has made wonderful tracks before - but I feel he is stretched too thin, he needs a break. I want my Kumatani, Senoue and Nanba back please. Oh and I totally would love the return of Cash Cash. And whatever happened to the Madeon rumour hahahaha.

So in a roundup... yes, I'm looking forward to Forces. It does so many things wrong. Very wrong. Classic Sonic is useless and shouldn't be here, there is way too much going on for a cohesive game, there is too much of nostalgia pandering, the ambition here seems to lack direction... but all that said, I'm excited to experience a game that is fun and has an interesting story. I'm glad to see Silver and Shadow back. After all, Sonic is my most favourite video game series and the games mostly give me a lot of fun, but I should lower my expectations. Lost World severely disappointed... but I really did like the rest of the Modern games, so there's that.

[Dizcrybe]

Mixed feelings overall I guess.

For starters, the gameplay is basically Generations, so I'm bound to enjoy at least most of it. Classic was never impressive and the Avatar Stages look like a ripoff of Classic's until it remembers Forces is supposed to be a 3D game.

The story looks like it's gonna be a mess, no doubt about it, but if it's as action-y as the Adventure games, it's at least gonna be the most interesting story we've had in years.

The music is good for the most part. Classic Sonic by far has it the worst. I dunno why they couldn't go with what was done in Generations and have his music be all electronic instead of sounding like bad MIDIs. Even Sonic 4 sounded better than this. The Custom Character's music is the kind of cheese we haven't heard in Sonic music since Black Knight or arguably Colors. I've seen people say it sounds too much like pop music but I really don't get it at all. Pop music hasn't sounded this upbeat in years, much less had drum 'n' bass beats behind it.

That's all I have to say, really.