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Blue Blood

What YOU Think of Sonic Forces

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8 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Personally speaking, I feel that I'd be settling for a lower standard with Forces. Although I enjoy Generations, it has many cut corners in its game design. They're the sort of things that I can accept and turn a blind eye to for only so long before I get totally fed up. The issues that I've got have existed since Unleashed at the latest, so that's nine years of problems not being addressed. It's made worse by the fact that this game lifts two of its gameplay styles from Generations without any real improvements. There's also Mania out there that so much higher quality that Forces only feels lazy, if not totally arrogant, by comparison. 

And that's entirely separate from the presence of this custom character malarkey. 

Like I said, what I want out Sonic and what everyone else wants just seem at odds.

I'm just kind of tired of being angry at this series tbh. I'd rather just casually follow it and focus on other franchises at this point.

It's frustrating because what I want isn't even anything exceptional, and Im willing to compromise on some things but that's still too much apparently lol. So I'm just gonna cut my losses.

I'll play this game and forget about it just as quickly.

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Alright, I'll give this a shot. 

This game looks ridiculously fun, and will probably usurp Generations as my favorite 3D Sonic game. But only because of the concepts that were fleshed out, all of which have to do with how Modern Sonic plays. Honestly Classic and Your Name still feel like cop-outs to me, like they needed not only another Sonic, but another fucking gimmick to go along with it. Still, these look like fun, even if they're notably less so compared to Modern Sonic.

As for the story, I like the basic concept, but it's clear that some details could be easily screwed up. For example, if the villains are just there because Infinity warped them from their respective time periods where they were assholes, then that just SUCKS. Ultimately, though, I'm reserving judgment for when I actually sit down and play the game. 

One very positive sign is that it'll be running in 60 frames. To me, this is pretty much a necessity for Sonic games, and there's no way in hell I'll get the 30fps Switch version. 

I will say that it doesn't feel entirely fair to say this game is better than Mania. I'll certainly prefer it, but only because I just prefer 3D Sonic over 2D. Clearly, Forces isn't made with the same love and passion that's going into Mania. If we could get a 3D Sonic game that is made with that kind of heart, I'd be ecstatic. 

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I really liked the game. If the story is written correctly, then Forces would probably surpass any Sonic game I really like. Modern Sonic seems fun to play, and even if Classic Sonic doesn't look really "classic" in the level design, I think it will still be fun. In a different way, for sure. The Avatar also looks good, the Wispons seems pretty cool to mess around with, and his/her speed and platforming still feels like a sonic game.

The only thing I don't like in this game is all the mess in the art style. Sometimes Green hill stops being green and gets sandy, and visually that fucking sucks. Seriously, it's ugly as hell. That's OK if Sonic Team wants to make a Desert+Green Hill zone, but they should make a whole level in the desert, (maybe half level) not like tiny spaces of sand (???). 

Park Avenue is cinematically beautiful but it also looks a mess. I don't think I can clearly SEE where I am supposed to go. It's like they randomly choose 16 colors to put in this level and then though "hey, why not FUCKING DESTROY THIS SHIT WITH 10 ROCKETS AND PUT A GIANT ROBOT STOMPING AND SHACKING THE CAMERA"

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I like everything about it.

Edit: it would appear one line of my message was all my phone wanted to post (on holiday with shit WiFi/signal. Will edit when stable connection is available.

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I remember being pretty salty at the reveal of Classic Sonic in its first trailer. As much as I appreciate the little guy, it already gave me the impression that it wouldn't be a coherent setting. I was still curious, however.

With the amount of information that has been shown and revealed, I must admit that sparks of interest were created.

The custom avatar adds to the setting one of the things that the series seemed to lack: The feeling that there are other people like Sonic and company in the world. It's interesting because I remember that back then, I always wondered why minor characters were always human. It seemed that they really wanted to minimize on the anthropomorphic characters and leave that to the main cast (and related). Maybe a change of heart in that aspect and one that would please me depending on the execution.

The re-introduction of past villains can be fairly confusing, but depending on the writing it could make for something entertaining. With the reveal of dimension hopping being a thing, I'm ready for anything. If anyone has watched Yu-Gi-Oh Arc-V, you can easily imagine how re-using the same characters can still work. You have to treat them as different character and disconnect them from the ones you knew from the past however. Who knows, maybe Werehog Sonic will be its own character there.

With the hints that other characters would play small roles in the game, I was hoping for some more visual action like Silver creating a way by piling up thing, Amy throwing Sonic over a huge cliff with the help of her hammer, Tails hacking a door open, etc. All of these things could even be integrated in the level as you play. So it was a little disappointing that so far, all I've seen (or heard) was radio interaction. Still nice to feel that some things are moving around, even if it's a bit of an illusion.

I realize that I didn't talk about the gameplay that much. But I'm the kind of person that feel that even if the game is really fun, if the setting/scenario/presentation is not interesting to me (or worse, incoherent/inexistent), then I won't find it memorable. In fact, it would take a pretty big hit on my enjoyment of the product (case in point: I don't feel like Generations was a game that's up there). Besides, it would need to be really really bad for me to not find enjoyment in gameplay, heh.

 

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I'm more intrigued about Sonic Forces rather than going its awesome or terrible. It's a very interesting direction that SEGA and Sonic Team have decided to take. As I commented on The Sonic Show podcast, I feel SEGA and Sonic Team have stuck with the Colours/Generations gameplay style as it was praised by fans and critics. After Lost World received very mixed reviews with the Parkour addition and controls, I'm glad they have stuck with what has worked and was well received by fans and critics. I think after Lost World and Rise of Lyric, they don't want to try something radically different or take a huge risk changing the gameplay style, which is completely understandable (especially after Rise of Lyric)

The custom character is an interesting addition. I like the idea of being able to create my own character and play but as people have been commenting on, there is a huge cast of characters they could have used instead.

So far the visuals have looked very good, smooth gameplay and looks fun to play so that's a positive. Will be very interesting to see how the overall story pans out.

While its nice to see Classic Sonic again, I think it's maybe a little bit misplaced but he may only have a small role in the game but will have to wait and see.

Overall, I am looking forward to it with all the intriguing elements we have seen so far. I am approaching this with a bit more optimism than caution. Sonic Lost World looked decent when I played it at Summer of Sonic in 2013 but unfortunately I just didn't enjoy it due to the control issues and it lacked that sense of fun.

There are my two cents :)

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I started out hyped, then just stayed curious yet still interested.

I remember watching the stream for the party back at last year's summer, wondering what the heck will this damned mystery Project Sonic 2017 be - finally we see a trailer, and it was Mania, and that looked amazing. Real rolling physics right before my eyes, and coming from a guy that once gave no shits about all that jazz, it was crazy to see a new Sonic game produced by SEGA that had had more then just that but other things that were asked for for years: playable Tails and Knuckles, physics, level design and etc. But as cool as that was, that was definitely not of anything Sonic Team was up to, so I thought "I wonder when we'll hear about that ga--" suddenly they tease the new game and I'm just paralysed - up until Classic Sonic, but hey? A new Modern game with a potentially neat setting and story that might be interesting and an adventure with original levels, right? Well, I guess it's still that, but..?

The Green Hill footage that was released then was just a hype killer for me, I didn't feel a thing watching it and the flat look of it only exasperated things.
Before I even clicked the video I was prepared to count the automation and dash pads in it, and man was that just baaaaaaad. Then the 3rd character silhouette showed up on that Nintendo Direct, and plenty of folks were certain the character looked dull enough to likely be the rumoured OC maker - while I was telling myself "please to god don't do this please Sonic Team" and then one day I see a new video "Custom Character Trailer", and I'm just "WHAT??WHY??".

As over dramatic as all that sounds from my point of view, I've accepted everything at this point and still look forward to the game, heck, I sort of liked the OC's play style from what I saw the more I watched gameplays from E3 and I'm happy with the way the Wisps are utilised this time (but preferably I'd rather not have them). I'm glad that Sonic only uses the White Wisps and from what I heard, controls more loosely. Classic Sonic having a Drop Dash is aright I guess. The music sounds fine (not feeling much of anything on Classic GHZ), the premise still interests me, other characters are still involved despite their lack of playability.

But kind of like an itch, it really bothers me how they put in the blocky level design, how boosters clearly look automated with set speeds and are peppered about, how Classic still lacks his physics, how linear Modern's level is and I've yet to see anything that assured me his levels will have more depth, how the so far the levels don't seem to have faith in the player and have plenty of automation or boosters - and just how pointless Classic is to this, while the Custom Hero is neat and all, I never wanted to run around as an OC or some crap - give me Knuckles or Tails at least, I won't mind if it's Metal Sonic even.

Another thing that bothers me is the implication on the future of the games from Sonic Team's side - since there are problems in the games that aren't being answered to, and likely won't be in this game. Going by this interview, it feels bad that I'll likely won't look forward to the next game if this kind of mindset remains in the team.

Again, I still look forward the game, but the problems in the game and the implications of them still fill me with dread over the idea that I'll likely lose interest in the series if this keeps up, all I can hope for is that Mania shows to Sonic Team that you don't all that junk to make a game work. I don't mind some boosters, just don't throw them
around everywhere and make them automation gates and don't give me multiple Sonics or an OC again, please.

TL;DR: The game still interests me, but please don't repeat it's mistakes from the past games otherwise I don't think I'll be buying any snoc headgos after this game.

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Honestly, I prefer the darker story, even if it ends up being cringy and embarrassing a la SA2's third act. At least then it will have some character and be memorable. I'd prefer there to be a correct balance, of course, but in the absence of one I'll take the dark side over the milquetoast blech we've been getting since Sonic Colors. 

Blue Blood, I can see what you mean about the dissonance between the story's tone and the handling of Your Name. But I'm waiting to see other levels before I make my call. I think back to SA 1 and 2, and honestly Tikal and Omochao weren't much better (arguably worse given their preschool-friendly voices).

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I'm going to echo Kuzu and Soniman.

I've been apathetic (with the series in general actually) towards following this game for months now. Same with Mania. When the time comes for me to play it I'll do it, find some enjoyment out of it, and call it a day. I'm already considered myself a casual fan for a while anyway, especially since I found a new platformer I enjoy a lot more. That, and I've opened up my palette of video game genres that I'm looking forward to more than whatever Sonic is dishing out this year.

So it's a "meh, I'll play it and be done with it, moving on".

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I've been really impressed with everything I've seen. As many people have said for years, Sonic Team's biggest problem was not sticking to one gameplay style and refining it. Now they seemed to have finally listened, and after the unfortunate missteps with Lost World and (BRB's) Boom, we finally have the Boost gameplay back in all its glory! I'm so glad that this franchise has finally found its identity in 3D. Hopefully this will be the future of 3D Sonic moving forward.

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2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

...by making a game with 3 gameplay styles?

Modern and the Avatar are both based on the Boost. They are essentially the same gamestyle, except Avatar uses weapons rather than Sonic's Boost. Both are clearly built upon the DNA of Unleashed, Colors and Generations.

Classic Sonic is rather different, but they are still building upon Generations.

The point is that they are, for once, actually building upon the foundations they have laid in previous games. I'd rather just see Modern Sonic going forward if I'm perfectly honest, but this is still a massive, massive step forward from the constant jarring shifts in gameplay Sonic Team have previously done.

I'm looking forward to seeing what epic surprises Sonic Team has in store for us!

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1 minute ago, Plasme said:

Modern and the Avatar are both based on the Boost. They are essentially the same gamestyle, except Avatar uses weapons rather than Sonic's Boost.

Considering how much the boost and the wispons define each style I can't see how they can be considered the same at all.

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At first I was kind of pissed, I felt the game was all over the place, all kind of characters showing up, more Green Hill Zone, chemical Plant zone? and how short stages seemed. However, after taking all that in I thought they might still be able pull it off. Character showing up at the end of the trailer make sense because how can Eggman's army be threatening. As for the story it should at least be more interesting then Colors, Generations, Lost Word. Modern Sonic seems awsome but I don't have a much of an opinion on Classic and OC yet. Overall I'm fairly optimistic about the game.

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34 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Considering how much the boost and the wispons define each style I can't see how they can be considered the same at all.

By any normal metric in any other platforming franchise, the difference between modern and avatar are enough differences to be different from each other but not enough to be an entirely different gameplay genre. Think Shovel Knight and his dlc buddies 

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Well of course it's not a different genre, I'm saying it's not the same style. So if someone says Forces shows Sonic Team sticking to and iterating on one style...that's clearly not what it's doing.

Indeed. Its just using Generations as a crutch.

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I feel like it's less making one uniformed game style, and rather the style itself not deviating from what the normal goal is in a Sonic game. You're not hunting for treasure in a boxed environment, nor are you using something as unintuitive as Psychokinises. If anything, it's more like Modern Sonic with a dash of the shooting stages from the Dreamcast titles.

That's probably the best way of doing it; you're still playing the Modern style, but the level design is changed to accommodate for character abilities.... too bad they couldn't do it for characters I actually wanted to see.

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The more gameplay I see of this game the more confused I get. 

Positives

-I love the fact that the characters are interacting throughout the stages, that's It's something I liked in games like Heroes and Rise of Lyric. Mostly when they're just chit chatting instead of just pointing out the obvious it's a nice feature that I'm glad that they brought back

-The main theme song so far sounds great along with Modern's park avenue. 

-Visually the game looks good. Not amazing or anything like that but so far it's fine

-Modern's level looks like the most fun to playthorugh 

Negatives

-We've all said that this before and it still makes no sense why is Classic Sonic here? There's no point to his inclusion and from what we've seen so far we already know that his gameplay isn't going to be as good as it is in Mania. And the fact that he's now from an alternate dimension make

-I still don't get why we can't play as any of the friend characters I get that they've gotten a lot of flack over the years but it's just when you have to resort to letting the players create an OC instead of any of the established cast it just baffling. And when you take things into consideration Sonic OC's get more flack than any of Sonic's friends let's be real here. On that note why are we playing as 2 Sonic's and an OC? Why not make it a 3rd Sonic?

-It's pretty much Generations 2. Everything we've seen so far doesn't seem like a new experience but just a sequel generations which isn't a bad thing it's just why not be upfront with that? I know folks would say "doesn't really matter as long as the game is fun who cares?" and all I can say is yes it does cause that means you're ok with them lying directly to your face and give them a free pass. 

 

I just...I don't want to hate this game I think that it's really the timing of everything that makes me feel conflicted about this game. If this wasn't the first console Sonic game since Boom or the first Sonic Team game since Lost World and it came out after something else...I think I would be a lot more opened to it. Again I'm still gonna pick it up but from the E3 impressions I'm hearing it seems like it's gonna be a mixed bag of a game.

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You know what's strange? Despite all my complaints about it, it's currently coming off as a game I'll like more than Generations. 

It's just very odd to think about, because I love Generations but I complain about it so goddamn much. And a lot of what I had an issue with in Generations is actually being addressed here in some way. Whether or not it'll be executed well is still up in the air but the characters are at least talking to one another, they have actual dialogue written for them to say, the story seems like it's getting enough of a focus that there's actual objectives Sonic's trying to achieve by running through the levels (like the whole thing with trying to find Shadow) instead of just "Run and the worlds restore themselves", and the plot itself is the kind of plot I've wanted from a Sonic game for quite a long time. Stuff like putting the Egg Dragoon in Green Hill and mixing the elements from the different eras is also something I complained that Generations didn't take advantage of either. They've also got that Hedgehog Engine 2 thing going for them, which is already making it look better than Generations (though whether or not it'll look better than Unleashed isn't something I'm convinced of yet).

With it using the Generations style, should it function properly, it'd be at least on par with it for me. So with all these extra elements I'm sure I'll end up liking it better too.

I don't fully understand why these games occupy the space that they do. Where I don't hate them but at the same time they make me extremely passionate whenever I find something to complain about them. Perhaps it's just a thing I have in relation to the Sonic series in general; a labor of love that drives my fingers to type about something every time I feel they could have done something better.

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