What YOU Think of Sonic Forces

[Cornelius Fudge]

I'll just copy and paste what I wrote in another thread:

 

I think no one has mentioned this, so I'll just come right out and say it. The boost gameplay in Forces has me somewhat disappointed because it's akin to Sonic Colors where you're forced to rely on wisp capsules rather than rings which are more plentiful. Rings are practically everywhere which gives the player an option as to whether or not they want to use the boost in a strategic manner to blaze through specific platforming sections or take it slower to get a feel for the stage. Generations and Unleashed style gameplay gives the user that option and being able to actually work your way up to using the boost tactically in platforming sections is highly rewarding and great incentive to replay stages.

My concern however is that wisp capsules are not plentiful and the fact that you're reliant on wisps tells us this: Sega is making that decision of boosting for us. When we're given the wisps, Sega wants us to blaze through confined, linear areas presented in Forces and whenever they deprive us of the wisp, they're depriving us from the boost, so we're forced to sit through slow platforming sections instead of actually using the boost gameplay to enhance the platforming experience the way Unleashed and especially Generations had done. There is very little reward because you're not given the option to even use the boost in a way that allows you to master the stage like the Classic Sonic games where you're rewarded with speed by knowing the stage in itself. Instead, you're forced to drag through slower, generic platforming segments which almost any player can do unless the controls are absolute shit. The boost should not be a limitation, we should have the freedom to boost whenever we please and accept the potential consequences by doing so instead of slugging through the same level of platforming as everybody else.

I'm still excited for the game, but seeing that they're regressing to Colors more in terms of Boost Gameplay instead of building upon how Generations employed the boost is very disappointing. That's not to say that Colors didn't do great because I enjoyed the game, it's just that this feels like a regression for Sonic and deviates from what made Sonic so great in the first place.

[Fletch]

6 minutes ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

I'll just copy and paste what I wrote in another thread:

 

I think no one has mentioned this, so I'll just come right out and say it. The boost gameplay in Forces has me somewhat disappointed because it's akin to Sonic Colors where you're forced to rely on wisp capsules rather than rings which are more plentiful.

Modern footage of Forces actually shows that if you also gain boost energy by destroying the enemies as well, so it's two methods here in Forces. Personally, I don't feel it's that bad because if the first modern level showcased was anything to go by, there's going to be a decent amount of enemies in the level for you to attack and fill your boost gauge back up and allow you to wisely use it throughout the level. But eh.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Mysterion said:

Modern footage of Forces actually shows that if you also gain boost energy by destroying the enemies as well, so it's two methods here in Forces. Personally, I don't feel it's that bad because if the first modern level showcased was anything to go by, there's going to be a decent amount of enemies in the level for you to attack and fill your boost gauge back up and allow you to wisely use it throughout the level. But eh.

I think it's just SEGA trying to "Force" controlling the boost so it's more limited and answers all the complaints about it being too overpowered and playing the stage for you too much.

The better option would've been not to use it period.

[Cornelius Fudge]

8 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

Modern footage of Forces actually shows that if you also gain boost energy by destroying the enemies as well, so it's two methods here in Forces. Personally, I don't feel it's that bad because if the first modern level showcased was anything to go by, there's going to be a decent amount of enemies in the level for you to attack and fill your boost gauge back up and allow you to wisely use it throughout the level. But eh.

Its gameplay still revolves around that limitation which is bad because it forces the player to slug through slower platforming which is lazy because they're not integrating level design that complements the boost formula.

[Diogenes]

Limiting a resource isn't inherently bad design, and the boost has never been good for platforming anyway.

[Cornelius Fudge]

Just now, Diogenes said:

Limiting a resource isn't inherently bad design, and the boost has never been good for platforming anyway.

I think it is if it's restricting you to play a certain way.

[Diogenes]

All gameplay elements restrict you to playing certain ways. That's what a game is, a set of rules, some of which define what you can do, some of which define what you can't. Having a resource that you may want to conserve because it will be more useful elsewhere is an entirely valid design decision.

And while it's certainly possible for a game to be too stingy with boost energy, that's not really defined by whether it's gained from rings or wisps anyway. They could flood levels with so many wisp capsules that you'd never run low just as easily as they can limit the number of rings and how much boost energy they give so severely that you'd hardly be able to boost at all.

[Cornelius Fudge]

10 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

All gameplay elements restrict you to playing certain ways. That's what a game is, a set of rules, some of which define what you can do, some of which define what you can't. Having a resource that you may want to conserve because it will be more useful elsewhere is an entirely valid design decision.

And while it's certainly possible for a game to be too stingy with boost energy, that's not really defined by whether it's gained from rings or wisps anyway. They could flood levels with so many wisp capsules that you'd never run low just as easily as they can limit the number of rings and how much boost energy they give so severely that you'd hardly be able to boost at all.

I agree, but I disagree when the developers are making these decisions for you. For instance, when wisp capsules are present, the game developers are clearly telling us that this is a situation that we should boost whereas an absence of wisp capsules dictates that we should not be using the boost and then continue to make gameplay design that revolves around that restriction in the form of slow, generic platforming to get their point across. I'm perfectly fine with the boost being a limitation so long as I'm making my own decision as to where I want to use the boost. As of right now, I don't have to question anything or be strategic about the boost because Sega is making that decision for me unlike what we saw in Generations to some extent where the boost was even useful in 2D platforming and you were rewarded for it if you chose to do so and this is something I'm not seeing here. There's clear designs made by the game itself that dictates where we should be using the boost and that is not acceptable IMO.

They could flood levels with wisp capsules, but that does not solve the underlying issue of the placement of the wisps dictating that Sega is forcing their own game design and decisions upon us.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

There's clear designs made by the game itself that dictates where we should be using the boost and that is not acceptable IMO.

This is honestly absolutely ridiculous, any game worth a damn has things that guide the player where to go and how to act. This is like getting upset that rings are laid out in lines along the direction you're meant to travel rather than scattered at random. The level designers might place wisp capsules at a place where it's beneficial to boost, but that doesn't force you to boost there or that only places with wisp capsules are worth using the boost at.

[Cornelius Fudge]

Just now, Diogenes said:

This is honestly absolutely ridiculous, any game worth a damn has things that guide the player where to go and how to act. This is like getting upset that rings are laid out in lines along the direction you're meant to travel rather than scattered at random. The level designers might place wisp capsules at a place where it's beneficial to boost, but that doesn't force you to boost there or that only places with wisp capsules are worth using the boost at.

Not something I denied. What I'm saying is that the way the game is structured literally doesn't provide the player much freedom if at all unless you highlight the areas in the first level that shows that you do. There is none. Clearly, the game at its core wasn't designed to complement the boost formula in the first place. The game giving us rules to follow isn't the issue, it's the fact that it's so overbearing that it impacts the freedom that the player has and the game's level design is literally structured around it.

[MegasonicZX]

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Limiting a resource isn't inherently bad design, and the boost has never been good for platforming anyway.

I wouldn't say its never been good for platforming but more that its too good sometimes. In both unleashed and generations you could practically skip some minor platforming bits with good usage of the air boost so it did have its use in that regard.

[Mick]

I am skeptical about it.  It looks like it's trying to make up for the wrong things that happened in the past with Sonic games in the past 15+ years.  I dunno.  I'll play it with an open mind.  I know I did with Sonic Unleashed and I love Sonic Unleashed.  Who knows, I might end up loving Sonic Forces.  For now, I'm skeptical about it until I check it out myself.

[memoryman3]

I am curious because it seems to be pushing the limits of the Switch. 

[Mr. Armstrong]

The more time passes, I find more negative opinions about Forces and I have to admit it's a little sad.

 

[Dr. Detective]

I was able to handle the video until he started raving about Charmy.

He's my son. Leave him alone.

[Mad Convoy]

I'm mixed on this game, truth be told.

On the positive side, it is so nice to see the Boost again! I love Colors and Gens. Even though I actually enjoyed Lost World and wouldn't have minded if the next game was based off of it, I ultimately concluded that it wasn't as good as Colors and Gens and would have needed serious reworking to get up to their standards. I like that Sega based a lot of the game on Colors because Colors has a ton of good things to offer that either weren't capitalized on or executed properly in future titles-- Wisps come to mind, as does optional Super Sonic (I hate Super Sonic so Colors not requiring it to beat the game was awesome) and the multiplayer. Besides, Sega needs an old standby this time around to help rebuild Sonic's reputation after the Boom games and Lost World. I also like the idea of a customizable character since you can basically make whatever character you want for the game and project whatever personality you want onto him or her, therefore providing a good compromise to the problem of what kind of characters should be involved in the next Sonic game. The fact that the new character is an anthro makes me brim with glee as the last new anthro that I heard of being added to the Sonic was Sticks in 2014 and she's Boom-exclusive. With any luck, maybe Sonic Team will take a look at the most common features added to the anthros and base future playable characters on them or use established characters with similar abilities.

Now, onto the things that have been complaints for others but aren't an issue for me. While its true that the controls for the custom anthro are rather clunky, I personally don't mind. I adapted to Lost World, I adapted to Secret Rings, and both arguably have worse controls than Forces, so I think Forces will be fine for me. I also like the soundtrack, which gives me Sonic Heroes memories in a good way but that I understand isn't for everybody. The visuals look quite nice and I look forward to exploring the levels when I get the chance to play this game.

Now, onto the negatives. This game seems like the product of trying to please everybody, which in execution means that it will only fully please a small group of people and leave everybody else mixed at best. It also makes the game really confused and unfocused, since it can't seem to decide if it wants to be a sequel to Sonic Generations and Sonic Colors or something that is largely independent of those games. Does it want to have a large cast of varied anthros and humans that get really involved in the plot to please fans, or does it fully intend on pushing them aside to focus on the Sonics, the OC, and Eggman to please professional critics? Is it supposed to be comedic (which "Fist Bump" and Pontaff involvement would indicate), dramatic (which the "Eggman actually won" premise and burning city would indicate), or some combination of the two? Also, I am not a Classic fan, but if Sonic Team was aiming to please the Classic fans with Classic Sonic's inclusion, couldn't it have consulted Headcannon on how to make the physics not like Sonic Generations? Not that I dislike Gens!Classic, but if they're going to add a gameplay mode to appeal to the Classic fans, they oughta at least replicate the Classic physics. Its one of the top things Classic fans ask for out of Classic Sonic. Or maybe just not include it because Sonic Mania already has everything they want out of a game based off of Classic Sonic (I will redact this sentence if Sonic Team started developing Classic Sonic gameplay for Forces before Mania was conceived and approved since engine and gameplay related stuff are difficult to excise once it starts to be implemented). It would free up time to refine the controls for the customizable character, if nothing else. I think Forces would be better if it just stuck to appealing to the most feasible demographic Sonic Team knows of, as it would have a clearer direction and wouldn't come off as trolling or only half-fulfilling fan dreams. I am not a marketer or focus tester so I do not have access to any data on what that group is, but judging by what I read about 3D Sonic, that group is likely the people who enjoy the Boost formula (and Classic, but Mania has that covered already).

I do intend on getting the Switch version as the last time I got a Sony or Microsoft console I just ended up using it for Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations, whereas I tend to find a lot of games I like a lot on Nintendo consoles (Super Mario Odyssey looks awesome, for one). That way, if I don't like Sonic Forces, the money I spent to get access to it won't all go to waste since I'll at least have a console to play games that I do want. I know that the game is locked to 30FPS, but I don't mind because I'd rather it get locked at a framerate the console can handle consistently, even if it is not as smooth as glorious 60FPS, than it pulling an Unleashed and getting up to 60FPS but only after a ton of lag.

Overall, I will buy Sonic Forces because I feel that I will enjoy Sonic Forces. Its certainly a good quality game. But I will enjoy it with some reservations and concern for the future of the franchise. One confused game is one thing, but I worry that it will become a trend and I don't want future Sonic Team Sonic games to have Forces's lack of focus and a "gotta please 'em all" attitude.

[avidsonicfan1991]

I really, really, really want to love this game to death when it comes out! If I do and yet literally everyone else hates it, I will literally bawl my eyes out because my childhood hero will finally end up being the ABSOLUTE worst video game franchise of all time!!! If I actually hate it, I will do the same thing! I love this franchise to death! But yet I feel as if I am similar to someone who loves Bubsy to death! Even YouTube user "I Hate Everything" thinks it's the worst franchise ever made and bashes literally EVERYTHING about it!

If this game really is as bad as everyone makes it out to be, just pretend that Garbage Pail Kids is my all time favorite movie, or Bubsy is my all time favorite video game franchise, or Link: The Faces of Evil is my all-time favorite video game! Loving one of the worst things ever just makes me feel like a bad person just for loving it to death!

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

12 minutes ago, avidsonicfan1991 said:

I really, really, really want to love this game to death when it comes out! If I do and yet literally everyone else hates it, I will literally bawl my eyes out because my childhood hero will finally end up being the ABSOLUTE worst video game franchise of all time!!! If I actually hate it, I will do the same thing! I love this franchise to death! But yet I feel as if I am similar to someone who loves Bubsy to death! Even YouTube user "I Hate Everything" thinks it's the worst franchise ever made and bashes literally EVERYTHING about it!

If this game really is as bad as everyone makes it out to be, just pretend that Garbage Pail Kids is my all time favorite movie, or Bubsy is my all time favorite video game franchise, or Link: The Faces of Evil is my all-time favorite video game! Loving one of the worst things ever just makes me feel like a bad person just for loving it to death!

I think you're overreacting. The Sonic franchise is certainly not as respectable as it used to be, and it is indeed possible Forces will reinforce (ha ha) this rather than alleviating it. But that doesn't mean Sonic is in "worst video game franchise of all time" range.

Anyway, remember there are a plethora of opinions out there, especially when it comes to Sonic. The franchise obviously doesn't have a universally negative reception like Garbage Pail Kids, etc. And even regardless of the opinions of others, YOU are still entitled to YOUR OWN opinion. So decreeing it as among the "worst things ever" and thus feeling bad for liking it is not necessary at all.

In addition, it looks like if nothing else, Mania may help the franchise's reputation. It's getting a TON of positive reactions so far outside the Sonic fandom. Not that I know whether or not you're interested in that game, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

Basically, you seem super concerned about other people disliking something you like, and you're also drastically overstating the extent of the problem. I think you need to chill a bit.

[Cornelius Fudge]

15 hours ago, Mr. Armstrong said:

The more time passes, I find more negative opinions about Forces and I have to admit it's a little sad.

 

I would've liked more specificity though I do agree that based on what is seen, it's too simplistic for its own good. It's disheartening because majority of the game is 2D and the 3D sections are too narrow, linear, and simplistic as it is and I want to flat out enjoy Sonic in 3D.

[avidsonicfan1991]

22 minutes ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

I would've liked more specificity though I do agree that based on what is seen, it's too simplistic for its own good. It's disheartening because majority of the game is 2D and the 3D sections are too narrow, linear, and simplistic as it is and I want to flat out enjoy Sonic in 3D.

So do I.......

[Baconjack]

I'm relatively excited for the game.

The game looks fantastic, the gameplay is the good old favourite boost mode, Classic Sonic is a slight annoyance but is still a blast to play, and the Custom Hero is an add-on run of the mill platforming game where you get to play as Coldsteel. The music is great for the most part. We haven't gotten one of these games in 6 years, and it seems to be worth the wait. 

It is quite sad that the media say many good things about this game, yet when it comes to the fanbase, there is little more than hisses, bashing and derision, at least what I've read on this thread so far.

It truly is hard to believe that IGN, which has gone on record for saying that "Sonic was never good", has said more positive things about Forces than some people in our own fanbase. 

[Tracker_TD]

3 minutes ago, Sir Laptop said:

I'm relatively excited for the game.

The game looks fantastic, the gameplay is the good old favourite boost mode, Classic Sonic is a slight annoyance but is still a blast to play, and the Custom Hero is an add-on run of the mill platforming game where you get to play as Coldsteel. The music is great for the most part. We haven't gotten one of these games in 6 years, and it seems to be worth the wait. 

It is quite sad that the media say many good things about this game, yet when it comes to the fanbase, there is little more than hisses, bashing and derision, at least what I've read on this thread so far. 

It truly is hard to believe that IGN, which has gone on record for saying that "Sonic was never good", has said more positive things about Forces than some people in our own fanbase. 

I'm a Sonic fan sure, but I'm not obliged to like any old shit with the blue sod's face on it. 

As for the media... the E3 impressions thread right now tells a slightly different story. 

[avidsonicfan1991]

I forgot to add this part when I went to this thread, but I already made this complaint on Amino, but nobody replied to it other than a few likes.

When I first saw the trailer involving being able to create a "Custom Hero", my hype went through the roof! It has GOTTA be worth the full price of the game alone. But when I saw the fan reaction, it's a completely different story. They were afraid that those notorious "Sonic OCs" are becoming canon in the series.

 

But the thing is... I don't want to be branded a bad reputation of being one of those fanboys that made a terrible OC. Here's why.

 

Back in late 2010, I made a Sonic OC named Marc the Hedgehog (and no, Marc is not my real name, which is one of the worst things about OCs, they name their OCs after themselves), and he is supposed to be the son of Sonic and Sally Acorn. Until now, I have kept this character private to myself and my younger sister. There are a lot of things similar to Sonic about Marc in which I can't explain right now, but he doesn't travel SIGNIFICANTLY faster than Sonic. But one thing that is DIFFERENT about Marc is that unlike Sonic, Marc actually loves to swim!

 

Is that grounds for a terrible OC? If so, am I a terrible person for coming up with him? Because I really love him!

[Sega DogTagz]

@avidsonicfan1991

If your seriously asking, I'll just recap "Making a good Sonic OC 101"

#1. Don't make your character related to the main cast

#2 Don't make it a Hedgehog (or if you do you better have a mighty good reason for doing so that doesn't conflict with rule 1)

#3 If your character has super speed, he really shouldn't be faster than Sonic.

 

If you are creating something for your own amusement and enjoyment, then these rules simply don't matter. What you have fun with and gain joy from are your own business. It not only until you openly share your creation do you have to expect any kind of rebuttal, and even then, if its simply for your own sake than feel free to enjoy it regardless of what other people think. However if you design an OC, with the intention of showing it off to gauge what others think of your creative process, and you violate all three of these laws right off the bat... probably not the best start.

 

 

 

[NoKaine]

9 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

As for the media... the E3 impressions thread right now tells a slightly different story. 

There's both positive and negative impressions of the game, only the negative impressions just came out. Hey, maybe SEGA's suppressing negative press?