Sonic Mania Nominated for Several E3 Awards

[Sonictrainer]

That's good to see!

 

[Indigo Rush]

YO.

Can someone tell me the last time Sonic was nominated for anything at an E3 conference?

Bonus points: By IGN.

TWICE.

This game is making an impression.

[JosepHenry]

Too bad it didn't win the IGN award. But hey, is competing against Odyssey of all games. 

[Indigo Rush]

For IGN, Sonic Mania was actually nominated for Best Platformer and Best Switch game, Mario Odyssey so far has won Game of the Show as well as the same categories as Sonic Mania. Mania didn't make the cut for GotS. While I wouldn't be surprised if Mario wipes the competition, I'll be pretty salty, sour and bitter for Sonic not winning best platformer. Odyssey has platforming, but it doesn't revolutionize the genre like Galaxy did; it's more of an adventure game in my eyes. Sonic platforming has always left a stronger impression on me, I really hope Mania wins that one, it truly deserves all the praise.

[Chris Knopps]

...So...

Did uh...

Did Forces win anything...?

...I hear it only got about half the focus Mania did...

I'm smiling so smugly today.

[Milo]

2 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

YO.

Can someone tell me the last time Sonic was nominated for anything at an E3 conference?

Bonus points: By IGN.

TWICE.

This game is making an impression.

IGN - E3 2010 - Sonic 4 - Best Platformer (Nominated), Best iPhone Game (Nominated)

IGN - E3 2010 - Sonic Colors - Best Platformer (Nominated), Best Wii Game (Nominated)

DigitalTrends - E3 2013 - Sonic Lost World - Best Nintendo Exclusive (Won)

(Of course, it goes without saying those were the only results I could find in a search from a literal ten-year search from 2005 to 2015.... :v)

[molul]

2 hours ago, Gabe said:

IGN - E3 2010 - Sonic 4 - Best Platformer (Nominated), Best iPhone Game (Nominated)

Dude, that year had to have really awful platformers...

[Mark1]

As much as it pleases me that Mania is getting nominations like this...but after what I saw with Super Mario Odyssey there's no way any game could beat it.

Sonic Mania is probably going to be one of the top 3 games of 2017 for me though. Alongside the above and Zelda BoTW.

[Indigo Rush]

Contrasts.

[Chris Knopps]

2 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Contrasts.

Hang thy heads in shame Sonic Team...

Hang thy heads in shame.

To think we've reached a point where a rag-tag indie team of fans brought in out of the blue produces something several times fold better their first try than the "seniors" of the industry with some 10-20 years under their belts have been attempting for so many years now.

Let em' hang boys.

[Milo]

10 hours ago, molul said:

Dude, that year had to have really awful platformers...

That year saw Super Mario Galaxy 2, Donkey Kong Country Returns, LittleBigPlanet 2, and Kirby's Epic Yarn; and Colors was seen as Sonic Team finally putting out their first decent game in years. It couldn't had been all bad. =P

[Nepenthe]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

To think we've reached a point where a rag-tag indie team of fans brought in out of the blue produces something several times fold better their first try than the "seniors" of the industry with some 10-20 years under their belts have been attempting for so many years now.

You're comparing two different games with two completely different scopes of development.

There's probably a few reasons that PagodaWest and the fan sector in general have concerned themselves with making a classic retread instead of a 3D game that's competitive with even the worst Sonic Team has to offer outside of "we really like the classic games."

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

First post here.

 

Could not be happier for this team and happier that I get to play this game in 2 months. Hopefully this is the start of a larger, greater trend for Sonic. True excellence.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

You're comparing two different games with two completely different scopes of development.

There's probably a few reasons that PagodaWest have concerned themselves with making a classic retread instead of a 3D game outside of "we really like the classic games."

My issue is with how long one team has been at it compared to another. While one team has much experience with fan-games and such, the other has been at it for so long you'd think by now every Sonic game would have the same level of quality and professionalism the Mario and Zelda series has retained, yet for whatever reason it seems the longer Sonic Team makes games, the worse they become over time, whereas the other franchises maintain a consistent level of quality/success, if not more-so with every launch.

I just don't see how/why it had to work out this way for the Sonic franchise where all it takes is bringing in a bunch of fans to make a better product than the staff that have been around for so many years now. I suppose I'm annoyed because...

Perhaps I feel Sonic Team should have been capable of this on their own without needing help from fans?

[Nepenthe]

8 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

My issue is with how long one team has been at it compared to another. While one team has much experience with fan-games and such, the other has been at it for so long you'd think by now every Sonic game would have the same level of quality and professionalism the Mario and Zelda series has retained, yet for whatever reason it seems the longer Sonic Team makes games, the worse they become over time, whereas the other franchises maintain a consistent level of quality/success, if not more-so with every launch.

I just don't see how/why it had to work out this way for the Sonic franchise where all it takes is bringing in a bunch of fans to make a better product than the staff that have been around for so many years now. I suppose I'm annoyed because...

Perhaps I feel Sonic Team should have been capable of this on their own without needing help from fans?

They're not getting help from the fans.

The fans are making a 2D Sonic game that's almost exactly like the classics that long-departed figures of the entity that is "Sonic Team" made 25 years ago. This helps in that it gets people genuinely excited for a product with Sonic's name on it in a time where Sonic is still quite the laughing stock (although even I'm not going to act like people weren't genuinely excited for and still hold Generations dear).

But it has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of what to do about the franchise's place in a 3D environment which- again- just about no one in the fandom has been able to pull off to a widely convincing degree. Either projects go unfinished or the fandom balks at the ones that get a demo out.

Mania is going to come and go, and we're probably still going to be stuck with the issue of how to get Sonic impressively working in 3D, and as far as we know no one in the fandom is helping out with that either because they're not interested or because- surprise surprise- it's much harder to do than aping a perfected 2D formula.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

They're not getting help from the fans.

The fans are making a 2D Sonic game that's almost exactly like the classics that long-departed figures of the entity that is "Sonic Team" made 25 years ago. This helps in that it gets people genuinely excited for a product with Sonic's name on it in a time where Sonic is still quite the laughing stock.

But it has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of what to do about the franchise's place in a 3D environment which- again- just about no one in the fandom has been able to pull off to a widely convincing degree. Either projects go unfinished or the fandom balks at the ones that get a demo out.

Mania is going to come and go, and we're probably still going to be stuck with the issue of how to get Sonic impressively working in 3D, and as far as we know no one in the fandom is helping out with that either because they're not interested or because- surprise surprise- it's much harder to do than aping a perfected 2D formula.

I'm in the park with others about Sonic Utopia forming a good base for Sonic Team to work with, and if fans are what it takes, maybe they should hit up the Utopia folks and work something out?

I mentioned the issue of flying out of loops and such not being a problem if the general design of the game is right. I think automation is necessary to Mr. Iizuka in the more on-rails and boost-centric titles but if they go open world in a hybrid manner between the Adventure titles and Utopia then I think there's a way to eliminate automation altogether and give players complete freedom even through loops.

It might take making loops ridiculously massive and more theatrical in a sense as Utopia did, but still, I think this whole automation thought process just proves Sonic needs a totally open-world environment in order to work as a 3D franchise.

[Nepenthe]

As much potential as Utopia has it doesn't seem to have an overwhelming positive consensus either, probably because it's really open and fans are unsure about whether or not Sonic should even be in an open world at all.

Regardless, we've outlined tons of problems over the years in really exacting detail, but the fandom has yet to implement a solution that's as clear and concise as Mania being a response to Sonic 4 is. Because it's harder, and we all know it's harder even underneath the hype that is the fact that a fan project essentially has Sega's blessing. This should probably provide an infinitesimal amount of empathy to anyone brave enough to work at Sonic Team proper, but whatever. Gotta stick it to our stuffy Japanese overlords and show just how much smarter we are, I guess.

Ultimately, Mania is undoubtedly going to have a better reception than Forces. But then again Secret Rings had a better reception Sonic 06. Comparing the reception of disparate products with different intents and different developmental environments and needs just because they're under the same franchise banner isn't a constructive way to look at things.

[expansivelovestories]

15 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Sonic platforming has always left a stronger impression on me, I really hope Mania wins that one, it truly deserves all the praise.

Yes; each character also being a fully functioning "physics object" added a third dimension to the original games and will to Mania, allowing creatively, flexibly travelling through the zones to substitute a Z-axis being rendered graphically which can really water down the sense of speed as well as precision of control that is more effectively rendered in 2D! 

I think many people noticed the difference, though not in a state of disappointment per se, when jumping onto new ledges and platforms in Adventure did not necessarily feel better or more real than in 2D!  Building up speed and wildly traversing the Adventure fields did feel very good but certainly less cohesive even as using the curved floors in Spring Yard. 

In essence Sonic Mania is putting back on course a still unsurpassed peak of game design and coding!  Not everyone will see that because it does take some amount of time with any of the original 16 bit games to really feel how reflexive and immersive just the simple combination of controlling a living, expressive physics-responsive character within dynamic, impressive and nuanced environments becomes! 

[Chris Knopps]

9 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

As much potential as Utopia has it doesn't seem to have an overwhelming positive consensus either, probably because it's really open and fans are unsure about whether or not Sonic should even be in an open world at all.

Regardless, we've outlined tons of problems over the years in really exacting detail, but the fandom has yet to implement a solution that's as clear and concise as Mania being a response to Sonic 4 is. Because it's harder, and we all know it's harder even underneath the hype that is the fact that a fan project essentially has Sega's blessing. This should probably provide an infinitesimal amount of empathy to anyone brave enough to work at Sonic Team proper, but whatever. Gotta stick it to our stuffy Japanese overlords and show just how much smarter we are, I guess.

Ultimately, Mania is undoubtedly going to have a better reception than Forces. But then again Secret Rings had a better reception Sonic 06. Comparing the reception of disparate products with different intents and different developmental environments and needs just because they're under the same franchise banner isn't a constructive way to look at things.

Taking the Mania title out of the topic for a moment, I suppose when you compare Forces to other 3D titles, then it does stand up. Compared to Colors, to Lost World, and I will say, even to Generations to a degree, yes, Forces is going to be the superior of the bunch. More depth, proper tone, etc.

So without Mania anywhere in the picture, Forces is indeed the best 3D title up to the point, the problem is, depending on your views, even if you compare it to recent 3D titles that still isn't doing much for Forces if you didn't like the other entries either, which personally, I really didn't.

It's still like saying Forces smells better than a turd, but that's around where the praise starts and stops.

[Nepenthe]

I'm not all that enamored with Forces myself.

I'm saying that Mania isn't all that directly comparable with Forces, and thus making it a contest is dumb.

[ChikaBoing]

Even with Utopia, woudn't most agree that Adventure 1 generally had a pretty good idea in how it behaved? I mean unlike the coders of the original games, the main programmer of SA1 and SA2 is still a prominent member of Sonic Team. You can totally see Sonic Team experimenting with Classic style gameplay in Adventure. Look at Beta Windey Valley - no automation at all really.

Lost World was totally nonsense when all they should have done is just do Adventure again. I made a topic a while ago - where generally if the original coder is still within the team, it is more likely that they can replicate something (Advance 1 had a senior programmer of Sonic 3).

That's just my chip in on 3D Sonic

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

I'm not all that enamored with Forces myself.

I'm saying that Mania isn't all that directly comparable with Forces, and thus making it a contest is dumb.

I don't know...

I think there's a benefit to it myself. Sonic Team finally have something/someone to reflect on that's in-house and not Nintendo/Mario now. With any luck, somehow, in some way, we'll see a better 3D franchise in turn by having this 2D (assuming) franchise coming out now.

They have their own in-house team to compete with, and assuming it's handled right and maturely... I think it's a great means of inspiration and encouragement for those at Sonic Team who've just sought out Mario in this manner and that for inspiration in recent years.

Now they can turn away from the plumber and focus back on what makes their franchise what it is again by seeing a better product from their co-workers first-hand.

"Oh yeah... THAT'S what Sonic was! Now we remember!"

Basically is my point.

[Nepenthe]

There is little precedent of modern day Sonic Team taking inspiration from the better-received 2D products, including the ones they've made, aside from superficial nostalgia and gameplay trappings, much less implementing any kind of feedback sensibly. I don't know why we think Mania is going to change that.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

There is little precedent of modern day Sonic Team taking inspiration from the better-received 2D products, including the ones they've made, aside from superficial nostalgia and gameplay trappings, much less implementing any kind of feedback sensibly. I don't know why we think Mania is going to change that.

...The way you hit with reality is torturous...

Though in a way you're owed for keeping reality in check.

[JezMM]

While Utopia is an exciting point of progress, it's essentially on par with Taxman's original Retro Sonic engine demonstration (Egg Garden Zone etc) in terms of progress IF even that.  And remember SEGA didn't approach Taxman, he formally pitched them for the Sonic CD remake.  3D Sonic Fan Games are still very much in their infancy compared to 2D Sonic, so "SEGA should just get the Utopia guys to help them!" is a massive simpliciation at this point - maybe one day though.