Pokémon Sword & Shield

[Zaysho]

My biggest issue with this has to be that it follows the announcement of Pokémon Home--the successor of Pokémon Bank. This is just a way to keep you subscribed to another cloud service that will, in all likelihood, also require a Nintendo Switch Online subscription to even use and access. In case people don't know, Home will be a one-way transfer from the 3DS games/Bank/Go/Let's Go to store all your Pokémon from the previous generations. Game Freak has decided in addition to the usual regional curation process they've always done (once again, every single Pokémon is never catchable and requires older compatible games and transfer services) that they're simply not going to code certain Pokémon into the game so if you had any favorites not in Galar's 'dex oh well, hopefully it'll be in the next game, keep your subscriptions current or they're gone forever.

The only good thing is that Home launches months after SwSh do, so there will be lists on what's compatible so most people won't have to worry about it, but that doesn't make it less stupid.

[Soniman]

2 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

They could have promised to patch the remaining Pokemon in post-launch.

They probably figured it wasn't possible right now and didn't wanna lie to consumers 

[Wraith]

2 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

They could have promised to patch the remaining Pokemon in post-launch.

No point. There will be another version next year that will probably have all pokemon as a selling point.

[Blue Blood]

2 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

They could have promised to patch the remaining Pokemon in post-launch.

But that's not part of their plan. They made it clear already that they have no intention of doing that, and it's obvious that they're not going to default on that so soon. If you're expecting anything like that, I suggest you get on the first available train back to reality.

Game Freak are notorious for not going the extra mile in their games. Whether you call it laziness or being apathetic is up to you. But the fact is, Game Freak as a developer is known for pumping out the same Pokémon game every year and not doing any more than its really necessary. Expect the same old schtick for every Pokémon game - features get removed for no good reason, and are replaced with half-baked new ones all the time. The games only do what they have to.

[Splash the Otter]

3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Game Freak are notorious for not going the extra mile in their games. Whether you call it laziness or being apathetic is up to you. But the fact is, Game Freak as a developer is known for pumping out the same Pokémon game every year and not doing any more than its really necessary. Expect the same old schtick for every Pokémon game - features get removed for no good reason, and are replaced with half-baked new ones all the time. The games only do what they have to.

Then how are we going to get better Pokemon games?

[Blue Blood]

By continuing to kick up a stink. That's really all that can be done.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

10 hours ago, Diogenes said:

But don't go making up things to get mad about.

Nothing I said is made up. It is just as I said, he was wasting his time with that response as it said nothing other then they won't be changing their minds. Why would anybody pat him on the back for that unless they already supported his choices? We both know you been supporting good handful of their BS on this game from the start ever since the controversy, so you trying to justify their actions to me isn't going to easily win me over here. Me and other people have more then proven our point how the things they said doesn't really add up and how the quality of the game still looks fairly poor despite the team claiming that removing Pokemon supposedly helped them spend more time on everything else. Considering how overcritical of the Sonic series you are I am almost surprised at how much of a free pass you are trying to give GameFreak for half of this stuff.

[Diogenes]

I don't even really give a shit about the game, I haven't played pokemon in ages. I'm just willing to consider that trying to fill a game with ~1000 monsters each with their own models, animations, stats, movesets (probably nearabout a thousand of them at this point too), etc, along with everything else necessary to make that into an actual game, is not a trivial process and some things might have to be cut back to get a functional, complete game out in a reasonable time.

And even if you could somehow prove that they could get it all done under the budget and deadlines they've got and make them put every pokemon in, this is still an issue they're going to have to address at some point. They're not going to just stop adding pokemon. The number of things they're going to have to manage and maintain is just going to get bigger, and it's going to break down eventually if they don't do something about it.

[Flame Lance]

Well, this will be my first canceled pre-order ever. I for one refuse to pay more money than ever for even less Pokemon, on top of the worst gimmick they've puked out yet. That flimsy corporate PR BS little note does nothing but confirm that they don't give a crap about longtime fans like myself who have supported and purchased practically every game in the series. They know they'll sell millions regardless and that's all they care about. I'll gladly save myself some cash instead. Here's hoping we get a quality Pokemon switch game... eventually. 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

And even if you could somehow prove that they could get it all done under the budget and deadlines they've got and make them put every pokemon in, this is still an issue they're going to have to address at some point. They're not going to just stop adding pokemon. The number of things they're going to have to manage and maintain is just going to get bigger, and it's going to break down eventually if they don't do something about it.

Indeed that is a hard to answer question for anybody as it depends on a good number of different factors. For example how much they do or don't rebuild the game's engine every time. And how much content + code is easily transported over or not to each new title. However at least a small handful of stuff has been proven as fact, the team already had HD versions of the all old models on hand, and the lower quality 3DS textures on the models previously were just downgraded for those past games... there is a good reason why the company said they had future proof their models far ahead of time. They are even using mostly the exact same coded animations for all the old Pokemon from previous games. Furthermore if we take the Pokemon Lets Go games as a example... then it was proven by hackers that technically all current Pokemon exist in those games code and work almost perfectly fine if their missing models are hacked back into the game. Meaning the Lets Go games & maybe even Sword & Shield too are using the same old game engine except updated for console use... and as such it is not the hardest thing ever to fix the Pokemon up for modern usage. And sure maybe they still don't have the time to deal with all of that, fair enough... but they could always patch the game later when they do have time to include any unfinished/missing content. We know they probably won't, but the fact remains that they could if their time was the only problem.

This game was suppose to be the first BIG console Pokemon game, so it would had been awesome if we at least for this one game had gotten not only the same degree of content... but even MORE content then what the former main handheld games offered... you know instead of less? MAYBE at some point they would have to cutout including all Pokemon... but I don't feel the first awaited on big console game for the series was the right time. And again one of the worse parts here is that probably far more fans could actually deal with less Pokemon if the quality of the games were FAR higher instead of what is looking like merely a up-scaled 3DS game with a few mediocre semi-open world areas added on top. And I agree with what certain other folk are saying in that I won't be half surprised if the next mainline Pokemon game somehow magically allows & includes for all Pokemon despite what the team says currently on the matter.

[Meta77]

People expecting them to keep adding more and more pokemon and yet keep ALL the old ones is just ....the anger......i can not understand it. Its insane. Wait till they get to 1000 plus and people will range when not all 1000 are playable and balanced in game. its like expecting every digimon out now to show up in every game.

[KHCast]

9 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

People expecting them to keep adding more and more pokemon and yet keep ALL the old ones is just ....the anger......i can not understand it. Its insane. Wait till they get to 1000 plus and people will range when not all 1000 are playable and balanced in game. its like expecting every digimon out now to show up in every game.

The fact they could do most of this on the 3DS and now on the console jump are removing a major percentage from the game period despite the upgrade, leaves me wondering if it really was a case of “pushing the system and team” or just a case of mismanagement of time, or straight up just cutting corners to meet deadlines. Cause I don’t see it being too unreasonable when past games have done it. Like this argument I feel is just going in a circle at this point.

[Meta77]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

The fact they could do most of this on the 3DS and now on the console jump are removing a major percentage from the game period despite the upgrade, leaves me wondering if it really was a case of “pushing the system and team” or just a case of mismanagement of time, or straight up just cutting corners to meet deadlines. Cause I don’t see it being too unreasonable when past games have done it. Like this argument I feel is just going in a circle at this point.

Well dynamaxing, the "camp" feature if its real, pokemon in the overworld like in lets go. I am assuming its a lot on the team. And they are doing what they can. May not be the answear anyone wants to hear. Its a good thing digimon pretty much just sticks with saying how many will be in it from the start to avoid anger when new games come out.

[Conando]

13 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

They could have promised to patch the remaining Pokemon in post-launch.

That will never happen with the way TPC pushes development cycles. As soon as they're done with SwSh they'll be working on the next games.

[Strickerx5]

4 hours ago, Meta77 said:

Well dynamaxing, the "camp" feature if its real, pokemon in the overworld like in lets go. I am assuming its a lot on the team. And they are doing what they can. May not be the answear anyone wants to hear. Its a good thing digimon pretty much just sticks with saying how many will be in it from the start to avoid anger when new games come out.

Ok, a couple of things here because I've been seeing this come up a lot and I quite simply don't understand it.

For starters, Dynamaxing is quite literally them just enlarging the models. That is it on the animation side. The pokemon themselves don't get any new animations, nothing is done to their base model, they're just... bigger. The only things that really seem to change are their movesets and even that seems to be generalized to a huge degree from the footage shown. Beyond the new special move effects which GF has shown, time and time again, are never really specific to a pokemon and are reused to match other similar moves, models, ect... this is not a reason for excluding previous gen pokemon.

Second, why on earth does every single pokemon have to be set up for the camp feature? That's certainly not how mega evolutions were set up. Not every pokemon has one of those so I fail to see why these new features absolutely have to be functional with every other pokemon too. It'd be a nice to have, but I doubt anyone is asking for that. It certainly shouldn't have been the bar set for excluding Pokemon.

And as far as the overworld goes. Yeah, just no. Each of the previous gen pokemon have walking (and running) animations already tied to them. They've already done the work here. With the footage I've seen, that's all these models are using when seen in the fields. If GF wanted, they could easily have all of these things obtainable in there but, hell, that isn't even how the games functioned in other generations so I have no idea what on earth makes these games so special.

 

Also, real talk here, this "inevitable" pokemon limit isn't something GF should be facing yet. Nor, imo, is something they should be even close to running into for a long while now. For starters, the entire tech argument is completely bs to me. Again, they already did most of this on the gd 240p 3DS... how on earth can the Switch not handle a hundred or so more? It also isn't like Nintendo's going to up their hardware game anytime soon so GF should have a long while before they even begin to start worrying about the polygon count in these things (plenty of time for upkeep basically).

There are... a lot of methods they could use to stop such a thing from ever happening. One example would be to limit the pokemon that you can simply find in the overworld as to not crowd it and keep the newer ones at the forefront of the experience. Hell, they're already employing a lot of methods themselves. Reusing assets, keeping the animations low quality (even though Battle Revolution is still running circles around their efforts on the gd Wii 13 years ago but hey), not including older gen pokemon in new, non-vital, gameplay mechanics (see mega evolutions), balancing being what it is and always has been (unimportant), ect.

The only real reason GF is cutting pokemon here seems to fall purely on the fact that both them and the Pokemon Company don't want to actually invest that much effort into them anymore. Why don't they just delay the game? Because Pokemon is a fucking giant franchise with a schedule that seems to revolve around these games just existing (quality or no). Why don't they just get more resources on hand? Because GF probably doesn't want to invest more into this when it's been shown that they can get away with less. Plus, with Go seemingly starting to be where TPC is looking going forward, they might not want to keep relying heavily on the franchise. Why don't they just add in the Pokemon post launch? Because they're probably going to be well on their way into the next disappointing titles at that point.

Quite frankly, this all just screams of complacency from Nintendo, TPC, and GF imo. Here's one of their biggest products in a multi-billion dollar franchise, getting corners cut on its biggest feature.

[Candescence]

As someone who has actual game development experience and prior knowledge of what Game Freak has already done in 3D...

I'm gonna echo Stricker and Blue Blood here, I cannot fathom any reason why there isn't a National Dex. The models, textures and animations already exist. Other data can also be imported with some coding for specific things like where special effects start. And they're workable for the Switch - hell, they were significantly overkill for the 3DS. We even know Sword & Shield already has imported animations from the 3DS games.

This reeks of complacency biting Game Freak in the ass, or laziness, or incompetence, or any/all of the above. And considering Game Freak have stated they have no intention of rectifying this mistake going forward, I'm going to say all of the above, because fucking hell. There shouldn't be any reason why they wouldn't port everything over, unless their development toolset is that terrible, and that implies an incredible amount of incompetence.

If development of an entire roster of Pokemon is a problem, then get a separate studio dedicated to handling the problem (which would also allow Game Freak and other devs access to a library of Pokemon assets of consistent quality). I'm pretty sure that was Creatures Inc.'s job with X&Y, at least, make them do it, for fuck's sake.

Seriously, I'm really getting fed up with Game Freak's whims. Their previous shit such as not carrying over cool features between games was one thing, but this is the straw that breaks the camel's back. Also, I have to roll my eyes at the defense force that's sprung up, because God forbid that Game Freak actually fucks up.

[Meta77]

7 hours ago, Strickerx5 said:

Ok, a couple of things here because I've been seeing this come up a lot and I quite simply don't understand it.

For starters, Dynamaxing is quite literally them just enlarging the models. That is it on the animation side. The pokemon themselves don't get any new animations, nothing is done to their base model, they're just... bigger. The only things that really seem to change are their movesets and even that seems to be generalized to a huge degree from the footage shown. Beyond the new special move effects which GF has shown, time and time again, are never really specific to a pokemon and are reused to match other similar moves, models, ect... this is not a reason for excluding previous gen pokemon.

Second, why on earth does every single pokemon have to be set up for the camp feature? That's certainly not how mega evolutions were set up. Not every pokemon has one of those so I fail to see why these new features absolutely have to be functional with every other pokemon too. It'd be a nice to have, but I doubt anyone is asking for that. It certainly shouldn't have been the bar set for excluding Pokemon.

And as far as the overworld goes. Yeah, just no. Each of the previous gen pokemon have walking (and running) animations already tied to them. They've already done the work here. With the footage I've seen, that's all these models are using when seen in the fields. If GF wanted, they could easily have all of these things obtainable in there but, hell, that isn't even how the games functioned in other generations so I have no idea what on earth makes these games so special.

 

Also, real talk here, this "inevitable" pokemon limit isn't something GF should be facing yet. Nor, imo, is something they should be even close to running into for a long while now. For starters, the entire tech argument is completely bs to me. Again, they already did most of this on the gd 240p 3DS... how on earth can the Switch not handle a hundred or so more? It also isn't like Nintendo's going to up their hardware game anytime soon so GF should have a long while before they even begin to start worrying about the polygon count in these things (plenty of time for upkeep basically).

There are... a lot of methods they could use to stop such a thing from ever happening. One example would be to limit the pokemon that you can simply find in the overworld as to not crowd it and keep the newer ones at the forefront of the experience. Hell, they're already employing a lot of methods themselves. Reusing assets, keeping the animations low quality (even though Battle Revolution is still running circles around their efforts on the gd Wii 13 years ago but hey), not including older gen pokemon in new, non-vital, gameplay mechanics (see mega evolutions), balancing being what it is and always has been (unimportant), ect.

The only real reason GF is cutting pokemon here seems to fall purely on the fact that both them and the Pokemon Company don't want to actually invest that much effort into them anymore. Why don't they just delay the game? Because Pokemon is a fucking giant franchise with a schedule that seems to revolve around these games just existing (quality or no). Why don't they just get more resources on hand? Because GF probably doesn't want to invest more into this when it's been shown that they can get away with less. Plus, with Go seemingly starting to be where TPC is looking going forward, they might not want to keep relying heavily on the franchise. Why don't they just add in the Pokemon post launch? Because they're probably going to be well on their way into the next disappointing titles at that point.

Quite frankly, this all just screams of complacency from Nintendo, TPC, and GF imo. Here's one of their biggest products in a multi-billion dollar franchise, getting corners cut on its biggest feature.

*shrugs* possibly. I know noting about how much it takes to develop a game this size nor do i want to think how much time the workers are investing into it atm to make it run well and fix any bugs. But pokemon sells on the name alone, GF most likely and anyone else if truthful knows. Sure some super fans will be mad but those that buy the game for their younger children during the holidays will not. They have people into go, they will have some into this as well. and with their new masters game upcoming GF will probably be fine even through the handful that say they will not play it. Looks like my arceus will just stick around in the Bank for the foreseeable future.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

7 hours ago, Strickerx5 said:

Quite frankly, this all just screams of complacency from Nintendo, TPC, and GF imo. 

More so the latter two. Nintendo don't really get to call the shots on stuff like this, concerning Pokemon.

7 hours ago, Strickerx5 said:

Second, why on earth does every single pokemon have to be set up for the camp feature?

What's this about a camping feature?

14 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

*shrugs* possibly. I know noting about how much it takes to develop a game this size nor do i want to think how much time the workers are investing into it atm to make it run well and fix any bugs. But pokemon sells on the name alone, GF most likely and anyone else if truthful knows. Sure some super fans will be mad but those that buy the game for their younger children during the holidays will not. They have people into go, they will have some into this as well. and with their new masters game upcoming GF will probably be fine even through the handful that say they will not play it. Looks like my arceus will just stick around in the Bank for the foreseeable future.

You seem to be of the mentality that no matter how high people raise their voices on stuff like these that companies won't eventually feel the blast or change. Despite how many times you've been proven wrong on that factor.

[Ruomarta]

12 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

More so the latter two. Nintendo don't really get to call the shots on stuff like this, concerning Pokemon.

What's this about a camping feature?

You seem to be of the mentality that no matter how high people raise their voices on stuff like these that companies won't eventually feel the blast or change. Despite how many times you've been proven wrong on that factor.

This bolded part right here. People keep forgetting that Nintendo does not own GameFreak, because TPC, which houses GameFreak, is independent. So Nintendo don't have a say in the matter of what goes on with these Pokémon games. The only thing they're responsible for is the publishing aspect. Not trying to defend TPC and GameFreak of their actions, but this needed to be said.

Edit: For example, Insomniac Games. They're mostly associated with PlayStation, but they are independent. They are not own by Sony, which means they have no say in how they do things(grant you Sony might have been a little involve when it comes to Spiderman since you know, they own the movie rights and such). Another example is PlantinumGames with Bayonetta 2 and now Astral Chain. Nintendo only has publishing right.

[Kuzu]

At this point, its literally take it or leave it. Bitching and complaining isn't going to do anything anymore because Masuda has put his foot down on the issue once and for all. It's happening whether you like it or not.

 

The reasons or justifications don't matter anymore. So either cancel the pre order and move on to another series, or continue playing. But this entire discourse is pointless now.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, Ruomarta said:

This bolded part right here. People keep forgetting that Nintendo does not own GameFreak, because TPC, which houses GameFreak, is independent. So Nintendo don't have a say in the matter of what goes on with these Pokémon games. The only thing they're responsible for is the publishing aspect. Not trying to defend TPC and GameFreak of their actions, but this needed to be said.

Yeah, seriously. Anyone who knows Nintendo well would know that they're highly for quality over quantity.  If they were calling the shots in any capacity, this game would've been delayed by now likely to give the games the full polish and capacity they aught to have. 

[Meta77]

2 hours ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

More so the latter two. Nintendo don't really get to call the shots on stuff like this, concerning Pokemon.

What's this about a camping feature?

You seem to be of the mentality that no matter how high people raise their voices on stuff like these that companies won't eventually feel the blast or change. Despite how many times you've been proven wrong on that factor.

Please fell free to list the last 10 things ive been proven wrong on any factor outside the stink sonic fans made over redesigning sonic which was only possible with delaying the filme. Doubt pokemon will be delayed. They already delayed animal crossing and unlike sonic I doubt nintendo wants to be put through 2 big game delays over the fact probably 300 of 800 pokemon wont make it in. Actually i dont think they have said how many wont make it in. Unlike sonic I doubt nintendo is "worried" some blast? Pokemon again sells on the NAME alone. A few super players looking for try and get or import something out of all 800 is probably still noting close to the size of people still planning to buy the game even without the nationaldex. I see tweets saying they could care less about it and some that do. Well just 4 months to go so we will see. Im out this weekend and i see groups of 20 and 30 out playing pokemon go trying to get the new shinies and children with pokemon plushies. If a kid wants pokemon they are going to buy it to try it.  Honestly i see it like those handful of people that complained about switch online and said they would never get it. Then they see how fun mario maker is and i see tweets saying they caved and bought it. I see the same happening for this game. Again I still pay for pokemon bank. The ones that do not make it ill simply import them back into alpha s and just enjoy them there for a bit.

[Soniman]

2 hours ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

 

You seem to be of the mentality that no matter how high people raise their voices on stuff like these that companies won't eventually feel the blast or change. Despite how many times you've been proven wrong on that factor.

Because people raised enough of a stink about the Sonic movie to get it delayed fans of other franchise got it in their heads that big corporations should immediately bend to any and all fan demands if they complain loud enough. It kinda creates a unhealthy set of expectations when most of the time....it doesn't work like that at all and developers usually stick yo their guns because they believe they know what's best + money 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

28 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Please fell free to list the last 10 things ive been proven wrong on any factor outside the stink sonic fans made over redesigning sonic which was only possible with delaying the filme.

Several cases with companies like EA or Activision, or heck even Konami, you've suggested that apthaty will come out on top, only for them all to feel the brunt of the blast in the wallet and stocks.

I'd list them out each one by one, but that would get to be off topic for this thread. 

[Meta77]

2 hours ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

Several cases with companies like EA or Activision, or heck even Konami, you've suggested that apthaty will come out on top, only for them all to feel the brunt of the blast in the wallet and stocks.

I'd list them out each one by one, but that would get to be off topic for this thread. 

You can try but all you have to work with is me saying they would not bend the knee to fans crying over loot boxes. Which is just gamers unable to take responsibility for their actions and blame companies for making it so tempting to buy them sweet sweet loot boxes which you have the option to ignore. Sort of like in the sonic forces mobile game. I agree with Soni in the fact it does create this bubble where fans of any franchise think causing a stink and fit over any and everything will cause companies to change things for better or worse. Sort of like how some of the more sensitive types at ign played the new call of duty at E3 and raised a stink at how it  was super offensive and would not be buying it over some of the content which Acti then in turn said they would be removing somethings. While sure its nice to want every single game that graces the planet to be perfect, saying that if people get mad enough any and everything can and should be changed to fit my needs.

I wonder if we didnt have the internet would people be so upset. Just imagine the uproar if back in the day we learned S&K was originally meant to be tied to S3 but got cut over time constraints.