Bojack Horseman - Back in the 90s....(Netflix Original - Upcoming - Season 6 - Released: Tuca & Bertie (Made by same creators)

[Ryannumber1gamer]

32 minutes ago, Big Panda said:

Now that I’ve watched the finale and slept on it, I can finally give honest opinion:

  Hide contents

I think they dropped the ball, big time.

I’m sorry, but I really think it should’ve ended with Bojack dying. And the penultimate episode really made it look as if they were going to go through with it (a friend I discussed it with even said Bojack dying in the pool would’ve bought the series full circle with the opening, and that hadn’t even occurred to me and I was like OOOOH).

The penultimate episode where Bojack has basically “gone into the afterlife” was amazingly done, and the ending where he’s on the phone to Diane sent a chill down my spine.

The final episode then completely ruined it by starting with a fake out where Bojack is dead and then oh not really.

Nope, Bojack lives, and he goes on to serve a prison sentence for breaking and entering, and he gets let out briefly to attend Princess Carolyn’s wedding, with it being said that he’s got a few more months left and he doesn’t know what he’s going to do when he gets out.

We get some closure for PC and Diane (both have settled down with their respective partners), and his final scenes with them, Todd and Mr. P were nice and all. But when it ended with Bojack and Diane looking up at the sky for ages, I was like “oh...that’s it?”

The episode left too many loose ends. What happens when Bojack gets out of prison? Does he really never see Hollyhock again? What happened to Penny and her mum? It’s just so inconclusive.

I’d rather Bojack died at the end of the penultimate episode, with the finale being everyone dealing with the fallout. Or at the very least, I’d end it with the penultimate episode.

I’ve seen this floating around on Reddit a lot, and I disagree so very heavily.

Spoiler

Ending it with Bojack dying, even with the technically better episode would spit in the face of the entire show’s message, and send out a directly terrible message to the people who relate to the show and Bojack’s struggles.

The theme of Season 6 and the show in general has always been two core aspects - 1. That change is possible, but it’s not instant, it’s not a quick fix for your past mistakes, and you need to keep working to remain a changed person, while living with your past. 2. That life doesn’t end with a big showstopper moment that gives closure - either life’s a bitch and then you die, or as Diane said - life’s a bitch, but you keep living.

Season 6 and the show ends with Bojack learning important lessons - that if he relapses again, he simply needs to pick himself up and get sober again, that change is a constant day to day thing and he has to work at it, and that he has to remain responsible for himself without his friends babysitting him. 

The episode even shows this with Bojack having a PTSD effect when Peanutbutter takes him to a press release, and then later when he starts falling for his addiction to attention when PC mentions how big the new movie could be. Even when Bojack talks to Diane in the end, he makes light of the fact this could be the last time they see each other, but he doesn’t fight her or stop her, he accepts it.

The show in general is about life going on, and in that aspect, it makes sense to me that we didn’t get total closure on everything. We didn’t get Bojack having a happy end in the sun, we didn’t have Peanutbutter and Diane back together, we didn’t have Bojack and Todd as besties again, but we do have the setup for these characters to achieve happier lives post-show.

Peanutbutter and Bojack’s friendship is a lot better now, and PB is working on himself, PC has a perfect balance of work/family, Todd and Bojack have started the path to reconciling and Todd has promised to help Bojack with his addictions, and Diane ends their relationship, but gives Bojack closure. 

But the show purposefully makes a point to not give Bojack a definitive ending, but rather set him on the path to recovery, and helping him reconcile with 3 out of the 4 other main cast members, giving him the tools to continue changing, but leaving it open that he could relapse.

But beyond that, I think a Bojack dies ending is just bad for two reasons - 1. It’s predictable,  it’s been foreshadowed since Episode 1. You can even see a variation of the horse swimming painting from Season 1 Episode 11 in The View from Halfway Down, only the horse has drowned instead of swimming. Everything has hinted to Bojack dying via drowning, so making him survive is the less predicted option, but also...

2. The show itself has a lot of fans that relate to Bojack’s message of having done bad things, and having to live with them. If Bojack died there and then, it would’ve gave those people the message of “change is impossible, you’ll relapse, your friends will abandon you, you’ll be shunned, and that you might as well die because change is impossible.

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Bojack ends. Now THAT is a reason to be depressed.

Seriously though I'm glad if finished now rather than going forever. If something goes to long it becomes Simpsons or Ending to Game of Thrones. Even Steven Universe Future is questionable quality (to me anyway).
With that said, there is tons of plot points either dropped or just suddenly cut, like Gina, Pickles, Hollyhock, or New Mexico family. I keep wondering if they had less time then they though or it's intentional "in real life not every conflict gets resolved on your eyes" kinda of writing. But main 5 arcs feel completed, so that's what counts. In the end Bojack is one of the best shows I ever watched and I mean THE BEST part. Arguably #1, but I would have to think a little longer on that. It's comedy, drama, creative... whatever writers will do next, I'll be all over it. They earned that.

As for debate about ending.

Spoiler

I'm glad Bojack didn't died. This show can be depressing, but overall is ABOUT depression and ending on Bojack dying hated and alone would kinda ruin the whole point of the show.
And argument "too obvious" isn't really strong, but yeah, I and many other did wondered how show will end and "Bojack dies" was one of most considered options.

Actual last episode was a good Bojack episode, but I still wonder if it was proper end to the show. Yes, Bojack "gets a lesson", but I'm not sure if he learned it. "Ambiguity" I know, but how that makes Bojack grow since middle of the season?
 

I'm not sure, like Todd pointed out Art isn't about it's meaning, but about what you get from it. Statement that annoys me so many times, but here, I'm just glad I had this experience. "Bojack Horseman", wonderful show and reply to "why the long face".

[Ryannumber1gamer]

6 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Bojack ends. Now THAT is a reason to be depressed.

Seriously though I'm glad if finished now rather than going forever. If something goes to long it becomes Simpsons or Ending to Game of Thrones. Even Steven Universe Future is questionable quality (to me anyway).
With that said, there is tons of plot points either dropped or just suddenly cut, like Gina, Pickles, Hollyhock, or New Mexico family. I keep wondering if they had less time then they though or it's intentional "in real life not every conflict gets resolved on your eyes" kinda of writing. But main 5 arcs feel completed, so that's what counts. In the end Bojack is one of the best shows I ever watched and I mean THE BEST part. Arguably #1, but I would have to think a little longer on that. It's comedy, drama, creative... whatever writers will do next, I'll be all over it. They earned that.

As for debate about ending.

  Hide contents

I'm glad Bojack didn't died. This show can be depressing, but overall is ABOUT depression and ending on Bojack dying hated and alone would kinda ruin the whole point of the show.
And argument "too obvious" isn't really strong, but yeah, I and many other did wondered how show will end and "Bojack dies" was one of most considered options.

Actual last episode was a good Bojack episode, but I still wonder if it was proper end to the show. Yes, Bojack "gets a lesson", but I'm not sure if he learned it. "Ambiguity" I know, but how that makes Bojack grow since middle of the season?
 

I'm not sure, like Todd pointed out Art isn't about it's meaning, but about what you get from it. Statement that annoys me so many times, but here, I'm just glad I had this experience. "Bojack Horseman", wonderful show and reply to "why the long face".

The other characters did get a form of closure, more or less. 

Spoiler

Gina isn’t outright shown, but if you look carefully during the diner part, you can see a massive billboard advertising the superhero film made by Kelsey and starring Gina, implying they both got over their problems and will have successful careers.

Hollyhock, I really wanted to see again, but technically, we did get an ending for her - she acknowledges that Bojack and her have no real connection because while family, they haven’t known each other for long, and we can guess from the letter, given it was what completely spiralled Bojack back into a relapse that after discovering everything Bojack did, especially the Sarah Lynn reveal that she cut off all ties to him. It’s sucks that’s how it ends for them, but that seems to be the case.

New Mexico - this is fair enough, I think we could’ve saw their reaction to Bojack’s actions being revealed. That said, it seems like Penny ended up not calling the reporters back, as Charlotte asked of her.

Pickles didn’t really need it, we know what happened to her - she broke up with PB for the pop star. To me, it works enough because it references the age difference between them and how PB keeps chasing younger women, this time, he didn’t even get a proper goodbye, or breakup, he literally just got a text saying they’re done, and it’s used for brilliant comedic effect. Idk, maybe it’s because I didn’t even really like Pickles, but I thought that was the comedic highlight of the season.

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Found this on Reddit, the show creators talking about The View from Halfway Down, and explaining why they went with the ending they did in general:

https://old.reddit.com/r/BoJackHorseman/comments/eyw810/bojack_creator_on_penultimate_episode_ending/

[Big Panda]

Maybe I just need to go back and watch it again. There are times when I need to give something at least two viewings to fully process it, this might be one of those things.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Adult Swim picked up Tuca and Bertie for Season 2!

[KnuxDLX]

Fish Out of Water, Time’s Arrow, and Free Churro are three of the most outstanding episodes of any television show I have ever seen. Each of these three episodes practically revolutionized the television format. Cartoons will never be the same.
 

I think the 4th season dealing with BoJack‘s mother’s origin story was my favorite. The first part of season 6 was unpredictably fresh and fun. Totally not what I was expecting. In fact, the show only got zanier as time went on. That’s why I was a little bit curious why it would be canceled when there were so many more stories left to tell. 
 

I think the simple answer is that the creators actually wanted to move on to other projects, as the teaser the user above me posted suggests. I think there’s no way the show wasn’t a success for Netflix.