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i don't see why some fans hate classic sonic in forces


GucciBurr

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people liked generations and many would agree it's the best sonic game since sonic went 3d. people liked the game, so why not do a follow up to it? that seems to be what sonic team went for with forces

sure, classic sonic might have gotten enough exposure in mania, but hasn't forces been in development longer?

i don't see any gaming news site criticizing the inclusion of classic sonic like this board has

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1 hour ago, JezMM said:

No offense but in the Forces threads people have been giving reasons for why they dislike in Classic in Forces when they mention it (FFWF summed them up pretty well), if you're aware the board as a whole is hating on classic sonic in Forces yet have no idea why, you need to pay more attention.

The one thing I will say is that logically you're right, Sonic Generations was popular, so of course logically it makes sense to just do that.  Just like it made logical sense to make an edgier game aimed at 12 and up's about one of the current most popular characters from Sonic at the time.

of course shadow's game was logical lol. shadow was plenty popular and a darker spin on the franchise could have attracted a good number of fans if done right. the problem was that the game was executed like ass

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What the heck dude 12 days ago you agreed with the most common thought as to Classic Sonic's inclusion being unnecessary.

thought more about it and decided it was fine. people liked classic sonic's gameplay in generations, so it makes sense to bring it back

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41 minutes ago, GucciBurr said:

of course shadow's game was logical lol. shadow was plenty popular and a darker spin on the franchise could have attracted a good number of fans if done right. the problem was that the game was executed like ass

Plenty of people disagree with that first half, but to keep on-subject, a point here is that people feel Classic Sonic is being executed like ass here - he looks tacked on compared to Modern and Avatar, Green Hill's aesthetic and music feels wildly out of place with the rest of Forces' aesthetic, and now Mania appearing alongside it only exaggerates how inaccurate and missing the point Classic Sonic's gameplay is in Generations/Forces.

Then you get the tertiary effects, for me as a fan of 3D Sonic gameplay, Classic being entirely 2D while both other characters are a combination of 2D/3D adds a dosage of ass-ness to the overall product by once again, making it so the newest 3D Sonic game is going to be about 25% 3D.

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9 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Plenty of people disagree with that first half, but to keep on-subject, a point here is that people feel Classic Sonic is being executed like ass here

if he plays like he did in generations, which people liked, i don't see how

- he looks tacked on compared to Modern and Avatar

how

Green Hill's aesthetic and music feels wildly out of place with the rest of Forces' aesthetic

the music sucks, but we've only seen one other level so it can't be said green hill doesn't fit. maybe there are other colorful levels

and now Mania appearing alongside it only exaggerates how inaccurate and missing the point Classic Sonic's gameplay is in Generations/Forces.

people liked it well enough in generations; why wouldn't they here?

classic sonic doesn't have to play exactly like he does in the genesis games to be enjoyable

Then you get the tertiary effects, for me as a fan of 3D Sonic gameplay, Classic being entirely 2D while both other characters are a combination of 2D/3D adds a dosage of ass-ness to the overall product by once again, making it so the newest 3D Sonic game is going to be about 25% 3D.

generations and colors were mostly 2d and most people liked those games

honestly if it's fun to play what's the issue lol

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even I as a hardcore classic sonic fan don't want him in forces. why?

- his gameplay felt off in generations, and it seems like they are using the same engine for him as in generations

- he has his own game. mania does everything right physics wise, so why in forces? we classic fans are more then happy with what mania will give us.

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2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Second: It plays like garbage.

how though

you make it sound like classic sonic generations was broken, when i don't see how that's the case

sure it's inferior to the genesis games and it had  some bad level design but overall it's still functional on its own. i do agree though that it should play much closer to the genesis games

 

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Sixth, Forces is bloated. Two Sonics, your own Original the Character, six villains (some of which shouldn't even be villains), and some kind of dimensional bullshit going on...the game's juggling so many different ideas and elements and I don't trust Sonic Team at all to keep them all up in the air.

 

 
you know the bolded has nothing to do with the gameplay right
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Well, let's talk about numbers.

Since the announcement in 2016, we had 75% of Classic Sonic and just 25% of Modern Sonic. At that time we don't knew that we would have a third character (Just speculation about the 3 Eggman's Robots). Actually, we have 50% of Classic Sonic (25% in Sonic Mania, and 25% in Forces), 25% of Modern Sonic and 25% of Create your own character. In fact, Modern Sonic still being the "main" Sonic, and we don't know what Sega will do about create your own character (It would be part of main series or will be something specific of the 25th anniversary?).

Other interesting fact, is that Classic Sonic will have their own game, and Modern Sonic will divide Sonic Forces with Classic Sonic and Create your own character. And this also takes to a gameplay characteristic. As some members talk above, the Modern Sonic gameplay sometimes takes to 2D/2.5D which is very similar to Classic Sonic Gameplay (This can easily saw in Sonic Generations in levels like Rooftop Run and Planet Wisp, where you play something like 75% of the level in 2D/2.5D Gameplay with Modern Sonic).

And looking at Sonic Forces Modern Gameplay, it doesn't seems that Sega will change that, something that really disappointed me. It takes to a sameness situation, which doesn't makes the game innovative.

But we will need to wait to have some answers, Why Classic Sonic is back (For Mania and Forces)? What is the create your own character? Is there a science explanation about what it really is? How Eggman took the control of everything (Or almost everything)? 

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22 minutes ago, GucciBurr said:

how though

you make it sound like classic sonic generations was broken, when i don't see how that's the case

sure it's inferior to the genesis games and it had  some bad level design but overall it's still functional on its own. i do agree though that it should play much closer to the genesis games

"Functional" isn't good enough. "Functional" is absolute bare minimum, not something worth paying for, not something worth taking up 1/3 of a game. Gens Classic, and by all indications Forces Classic, isn't even a good platformer, before even considering if it's good Sonic gameplay. Without proper momentum and slope physics, what momentum he does have just makes him feel clumsy and unresponsive, and there's basically no interesting mechanics to make up for the lack of the classic mechanics. It's a game where you do really basic and boring platforming with awkward controls between getting thrown around by boost pads and springs.

22 minutes ago, GucciBurr said:

you know the bolded has nothing to do with the gameplay right

Yes, but why do you think that's a meaningful response to the complaint? It's story bloat, time needs to be taken to explain why these characters are now on Team Evil and what all this "alternate dimension" bullshit is about, and it's going to get less time because of the focus Classic Sonic is going to get.

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Here's my issue with it: Is there any point him being there since he has his own game in Mania? Why couldnt we play as an established character instead of another Sonic? 

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The issue with classic Sonic is not with the character itself.

The issue is that the 2D gameplay of the modern games is barebones, un-Sonic-y and not even good by general platforming standards. Just because a game is functional and polished it doesn't mean it's a good game. Sonic 2006 could have had 20 years of development and it could have been the most polished and functional game in existence, but the design flaws would have been still there and the final product wouldn't have been that much better.

2D Sonic gameplay is characterized by physics-based platforming, if you take that out, you're stripping Sonic of its own peculiarity. If you take that out you can't design levels that feel Sonic-y, because Sonic's essence isn't there.

That said, a big issue people have with modern games is that they are 2.5D games for the most part and 3D gameplay has been barely touched in the last 10 years. Classic Sonic is just a manifestation of that, and the fact that as I said the 2D gameplay doesn't feel like Sonic, and it's even mediocre at being a generic platformer, just makes it worse.

Mania being a thing makes classic in Forces even more redundant and out of place, since it's an infinitely superior version of the same gameplay.

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I mean, as a comparison, I liked FLUDD in Super Mario Sunshine but that doesn't mean I'd like him to be super prominent in another 3D Mario platformer.  I thought Turtles Forever was an okay spin-off but I wouldn't want to see the different TMNT incarnations crossing over on a regular basis.  I thought A Pup Named Scooby-Doo was cute in the 90's but I wouldn't want another series dedicated to the cast being children.

Ergo, Classic Sonic was cute in Generations, but I didn't particularly want him crossing over with modern Sonic a second time.  Narrative and gameplay grievances aside, some things just have a one-time novelty, and Classic Sonic (in the context of a main series 3D platformer) is one of those things.  I'd much rather they focus on the relationship between Sonic and his friends than Sonic and himself.

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4 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

There's still the issue of why we keep relying on Classic Sonic as a padding crutch in 3D when we could probably just either have A.) Games that are boost exclusive and less expensive, or B.) A gameplay style that actually supports a reasonably lengthy game altogether and is actually worth the higher asking price.

Literally no other franchise splits the focus between its main entrants on new styles and old styles.

Mario doesn't have entire halves of his 3D games dedicated to shoehorning in the original SMB style.

Breath of the Wild wasn't half open world and then half NES Zelda.

The new Grand Theft Auto games don't revert to the original's top-down view.

Why do the 3D games need Classic Sonic?

sales

most platformers don't sell well on xbox one and ps4 iirc so sonic team gotta boost the game chances of sales. ergo the character maker and sonic

and what's wrong with having multiple gameplay styles? if they're fun to play i don't see the issue

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If platformers don't sell well, then adding gimmicks to a platformer is not going to fix the fundamental issue. The issue there is the genre, and we need to face the fact that Sonic took advantage of a genre that has become unpopular in recent years, and thus it should adapt properly without inherently sacrificing its identity and quality control like Mario did.

And the issue is that people want console games that have a single style with robust mechanics that can support longer-term experiences, especially considering the asking price of games. If you want to talk about sales, look at the highest selling games and franchises. 99% of them do not extensively carve up the main experience between two or more different styles.

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