CyberShell: Sonic Mania Is The REAL Sonic 4

[Zippo]

Cybershell is a generally very funny, entertaining, all-around nice guy who's channel revolves around Sonic. He finally did a video for Sonic Mania so i thought i would share. Sonic 4 is absolute dogshit so I can't disagree with his assessment. 

[Indigo Rush]

1 minute ago, Zippo said:

Cybershell is a generally very funny, entertaining, all-around nice guy who's channel revolves around Sonic.

Wouldn't be able to tell from this video. Mania definitely demolishes Sonic 4 in every way imaginable, but this video is just mean-spirited and juvenile.

[Zippo]

He's got a pretty intense sense of humor, definitely.  I get that he's most certainly not for everyone. 

[Blue Blood]

I lasted two minutes. And as someone who has such a massive hate-boner for Sonic 4, that's not good. 

Mania is the shit, and Sonic 4 is hot shit. We know. Does this video actually have a point? Cause I don't feel like watching anymore to find out.

[Blue Wisp]

11 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Does this video actually have a point?

Views + revenue probably. 

The average content creator has a giant rage boner for stuff like this. People just eat it all up. 

[Spooky Mulder]

Mania looks fun, but I wouldn't really call it Sonic 4 since it does something none of the classics did—revisiting old stages.

Still think it'd be funny if the Mania team gets to make a totally original Sonic game after this—Sonic 4Ever.

[Wraith]

Not being over Sonic 4 by now is kind of lame in it's own right

[Celestia]

19 minutes ago, Spooky Mulder said:

Mania looks fun, but I wouldn't really call it Sonic 4 since it does something none of the classics did—revisiting old stages.

To be fair, each of the classic games did introduce new concepts. And I feel like if there had been more installments back in the day they might have started bringing back zones here and there. Probably not a 60/40 ratio of old/new zones though, so you have a point...

Either way--I can't say I'm "over" it because I was never really upset about it in the first place (I love the original games, but I don't mind Sonic 4 that much aside from "holy shit they should not have called it that and marketed it as such"), but...c'mon guys. It was 7 years ago. And numbered sequels are boring anyway, it's all about the words now~

[Indigo Rush]

Trying to label something in this instance is also kinda pointless, I think. You could make a (poor) case that Knuckles Chaotix was Sonic 4 as it's story takes off right after Sonic & Knuckles. You could make a (good) argument that Sonic Advance is Sonic 4 for keeping the general physics, controls and level structure similar to the Classics, as well as adding another character and a few new abilities. It honestly doesn't make a difference though, as Sonic Mania is probably going to destroy both, anyway.

Sonic 4 ought not hamper your enjoyment of Sonic Mania in lieu of it's existence. We don't need to find new ways to justify it's exclusion from the series canon or our own personal list of what qualifies as a 'true' sequel to Sonic & Knuckles or not. You shouldn't have to waste your time explaining why Sonic 4 "doesn't count" in order for Mania to take it's place. Enjoy Sonic Mania in it's own context: a great 2D Sonic game. The best 2D Sonic game, if things end up the way they're looking so far. I don't need to deride Sonic 4 to make it so.

[Zippo]

31 minutes ago, Spooky Mulder said:

Mania looks fun, but I wouldn't really call it Sonic 4 since it does something none of the classics did—revisiting old stages.

Still think it'd be funny if the Mania team gets to make a totally original Sonic game after this—Sonic 4Ever.

I kind of consider Mania to be "Sonic 4" because it's a fundamental improvement on the classic formula. The physics are better, the drop dash is a natural extension to Sonic's moveset, and it fixes one of the major problems of the classics by being in widescreen.

Also, I can't say I'm "over" Sonic 4, because i was never on board to begin with. I couldn't be disappointed or affected by it. Dimps hasn't made anything worth playing in 10 years. 

[GucciBurr]

if mania has at least 6 new levels then yeah i'll consider it to be the true sonic 4

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, GucciBurr said:

if mania has at least 6 new levels then yeah i'll consider it to be the true sonic 4

They are all new levels. Yes.

[GucciBurr]

2 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

They are all new levels. Yes.

they're not all new levels when most of them are remakes

[Blue Blood]

Mania is a fine example of what Sonic 4 could have been, sure. It revisits old stages in a new light and also brings new stages to the table. I don't see why any of that would be bad as the hook for a sequel. It's not like the actual Sonic 4 which only rehashed the classics whilst completely failing to understand what made them any good to begin with. Mania is certainly the "true Sonic 4" experience, but the fallout between it and S4 only goes to show what little a name actually means. 

Case in point:

Cheers, @Tracker_TD

[Zippo]

I understand that overemphasizing numbers is odd, but I get what CyberShell was at least trying to get at. Mania feels like the true fourth (or 5th or 6th....) game in the classic series, and that the game they gave the title to was horribly unworthy of it. I mean it's been said a thousand times already, but that doesn't mean him or anyone else is any less wrong. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

33 minutes ago, GucciBurr said:

they're not all new levels when most of them are remakes

They are new levels.

You have not played them before.

Therefore they are new. Are you also using this argument for Generations to Forces?

[GucciBurr]

56 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

They are new levels.

You have not played them before.

Therefore they are new.

they're remakes of levels i have already played before (green hill, chemical plant, stardust speedway, flying battery, etc) so no they are not all new

 

it's not a new level. the level design is different, but like i said, it's a remake.giving old levels new level designs = remaking old levels

remakes of old levels =/= brand new levels

[Osmium]

That guy has the most forced swearing I've ever heard. He sounds so unnatural when he says "fucking". 

[Waveshocker Sigma]

1 hour ago, GucciBurr said:

they're remakes of levels i have already played before (green hill, chemical plant, stardust speedway, flying battery, etc) so no they are not all new

 

it's not a new level. the level design is different, but like i said, it's a remake.giving old levels new level designs = remaking old levels

remakes of old levels =/= brand new levels

If the level design ends up being completely different from before, that ends up making it a different level by semantics and technicalities.

Or to put it in a much simpler way for you to understand:

If the only thing keeping a remade level from being an entirely different level is it's colors and level aesthetics, then it might as well be considered a brand new level.

I don't think that's too hard to grasp.

[GucciBurr]

10 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

If the level design ends up being completely different from before, that ends up making it a different level by semantics and technicalities.

so by no meaningful criteria.

Quote

If the only thing keeping a remade level from being an entirely different level is it's colors and level aesthetics, then it might as well be considered a brand new level.

no, it shouldn't. 

a brand new level is a level that is entirely new in terms of aesthetics and design. i don't think that's too hard to grasp.

let's not pretend mania is made up of all new levels.

[Cornelius Fudge]

1 hour ago, GucciBurr said:

they're remakes of levels i have already played before (green hill, chemical plant, stardust speedway, flying battery, etc) so no they are not all new

 

it's not a new level. the level design is different, but like i said, it's a remake.giving old levels new level designs = remaking old levels

remakes of old levels =/= brand new levels

No, they're Mania's interpretation of each of those past stages. What you're referring to is similar Sonic Adventure 2's 3D rendition of Green Hill Zone which people took notice of it containing level design seen in Classic Sonic, but this doesn't seem to be the case with Mania which seems to have expanded upon what Classic Sonic did right.

But alas, what matters more is not that it's a remake, but if it feels like an entirely different and refined experience. Generations for instance never really received this complaint of having too many remade levels due to the level design and gameplay making it an entirely different experience and this is likely the case with Mania.

[Badnik Mechanic]

2 minutes ago, GucciBurr said:

brand new level is a level that is entirely new in terms of aesthetics and design. i don't think that's too hard to grasp.

The world is flat.

It's not hard to grasp. It's just that it's completely wrong.

[GucciBurr]

Just now, Cornelius Fudge said:

No, they're Mania's interpretation of each of those past stages.

yeah, remakes.

What you're referring to is similar Sonic Adventure 2's 3D rendition of Green Hill Zone which people took notice of it containing level design seen in Classic Sonic, but this doesn't seem to be the case with Mania which seems to have expanded upon what Classic Sonic did right.

still a remake.

But alas, what matters more is not that it's a remake, but if it feels like an entirely different and refined experience.

subjective.

i want entirely new levels, not remakes.

Just now, Mayor D said:

The world is flat.

It's not hard to grasp. It's just that it's completely wrong.

it's wrong to want entirely new levels? lol

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, GucciBurr said:

it's wrong to want entirely new levels? lol

I was refering to your statement about what you think a new level is.

[GucciBurr]

Just now, Mayor D said:

I was refering to your statement about what you think a new level is.

how is it wrong tho