Sonic Mania's reception to determine future direction

[Milo]

5 hours ago, Mayor D said:

TI: [laughs] In the past two decades Sonic games have been trying to target a broader audience from kids to adults. And Forces has that same idea, so that means a wider range of characters that we know children like. Even if other fans may not be quite as keen.
But for Mania it’s kind of like a new approach. To target specifically 2D fans. So we don’t know whether it’ll be accepted positively in the market. We’ll find out after the game’s released, and we can figure out the direction of future titles after seeing the reaction.

Does that direction involve having more (Genesis) Sonic games made outside of Sonic Team? Because that's honestly the most ideal outcome for Mania's potential success in my opinion.

Sonic Team doesn't know or want to know how to make a proper Genesis Sonic game, while Sega of America and Taxman/Stealth/PWG do understand and are delivering on that front. If Mania's success means SoA will collaborate with Taxman and co. and/or other talented studios to make retail 2D Genesis Sonic titles (or even take a crack at a 3D Genesis Sonic) without Sonic Team's involvement (outside of maybe the supervisory role, I guess), then I hope Mania's reviews and sales delivers that opportunity to them on a platinum-plated platter. 

[Dr. Detective]

6 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I don't quite get this part? Is he trying to say older fans don't like Sonic's friends and allies? Because if so... that's not true.

It doesn't even fully make sense to say stuff like that nowadays either. For one, this era where it was just Sonic and Eggman that these guys talk about lasted for about a year before Tails showed up. Even if he were including the Classic trio of Tails and Knuckles, at this point in time, Sonic's friends and allies have been around for an extremely long time. Silver, the newest permanent addition to Sonic's list of friends, debuted in 2006. It's 2017 now. He's been around for over a decade. Kids who were 10 when Sonic 06 came out are 20 now.

Shadow's been in this series for even longer. You'd think by now there'd be at least a little tolerance for personality types different from just what Sonic and Eggman have to offer. At least on a small,level. It's not like that's the same thing as liking his character. You don't have to like Shadow but the way this is often expressed makes it seem like he and a few others aren't even considering who his character even is. Like it's working off of some weird "old versus new" mentality that shouldn't exist anymore.

There's characters I like more than others too but that's just because some personalities just click with me more than some others. It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if better character writing would even matter. Probably not. 

 

[Fletch]

3D will never end for Sonic, at best this will probably give us a dedicated 2D Sonic branch of games developed by the Mania team that will continue catering towards those with a love for 2D while (hopefully) helping the 3D Sonic team want to make sure their game is up to snuff so it won't look bad in comparison.

[Indigo Rush]

Good to know my multiple purchases could have more impact beyond the intrinsic value of supporting the Retro community and spiting everything Forces stands for. I think I'll buy even more just to offset the additional $60 I would have spent on Forces to make the message clear.

Yes, I'm incredibly petty.

[Kuzu]

4 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It doesn't even fully make sense to say stuff like that nowadays either. For one, this era where it was just Sonic and Eggman that these guys talk about lasted for about a year before Tails showed up. Even if he were including the Classic trio of Tails and Knuckles, at this point in time, Sonic's friends and allies have been around for an extremely long time. Silver, the newest permanent addition to Sonic's list of friends, debuted in 2006. It's 2017 now. He's been around for over a decade. Kids who were 10 when Sonic 06 came out are 20 now.

Shadow's been in this series for even longer. You'd think by now there'd be at least a little tolerance for personality types different from just what Sonic and Eggman have to offer. At least on a small,level. It's not like that's the same thing as liking his character. You don't have to like Shadow but the way this is often expressed makes it seem like he and a few others aren't even considering who his character even is. Like it's working off of some weird "old versus new" mentality that shouldn't exist anymore.

There's characters I like more than others too but that's just because some personalities just click with me more than some others. It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if better character writing would even matter. Probably not. 

 

I don't wanna speak for that guy, but most of the Classic community (but not all) really don't care for the supporting cast. Either they're considered too boring and one-dimensional to care about or they actively see their presence as a hindrance on the series.

So no amount of good character writing might even change their opinion, because as far as some people are concerned, they should have either been forgotten about a long time ago or never been introduced in the first place. Das life.

 

If anything else, I just take it as we're probably not going to be seeing anyone beyond Sonic, Eggman, Tails, and Knuckles if Mania gets any future sequels. 

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I don't wanna speak for that guy, but most of the Classic community (but not all) really don't care for the supporting cast. Either they're considered too boring and one-dimensional to care about or they actively see their presence as a hindrance on the series.

It's so strange to think about to me. I love Sonic's character but he's like my sixth favorite when it comes to the cast, specifically because I feel like there's characters with more "dimension" and have more interesting personalities than him. The idea that he's the one out of this entire cast whose not one-dimensional and not boring compared to everyone else would be a completely alien thing for me to try and contemplate. 

 There's times when I lament not being a Classic fan but here's one of those instances where I'm so glad I became a fan when I did. 

 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

3 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Yeah I guarantee this just means "if Mania does well, we'll ask Headcannon to do it again"

Basically this. Some may WISH Iizuka meant that this game would inspire a new direction for the franchise but he most likely is not saying that....based on just about everything we know about the man. He's very much a proponent of Modern Sonic's existence and while he does often listen to fan complaints, he does not actually place much importance on the fundamental gameplay components of Sonic. He thinks fans of the original era are fans because they only like 2D Sonic games....all while Sonic the Hedgehog 4 has a literal, widely-panned existence in the franchise. 

Fortunately, a new direction for the franchise may happen regardless of his input if Mania greatly exceeds expectations. I think it would need to do very very well though to be that influential but it is possible. Also, for excellent 3D Sonic game to emerge from this process they'd most likely need to infuse new talent into Sonic Team. This franchise badly needs to be rebooted but it can't be they alone that do it. They need help, from someone or some group with a strong vision and concept for 3D Sonic.

19 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Good to know my multiple purchases could have more impact beyond the intrinsic value of supporting the Retro community and spiting everything Forces stands for. I think I'll buy even more just to offset the additional $60 I would have spent on Forces to make the message clear.

Yes, I'm incredibly petty.

This is so funny and I just may join you. I was planning on buying 3 copies (PC, PS4, switch when I get one) but maybe I'll double it.

 

[Kuzu]

3 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's so strange to think about to me. I love Sonic's character but he's like my sixth favorite when it comes to the cast, specifically because I feel like there's characters with more "dimension" and have more interesting personalities than him. The idea that he's the one out of this entire cast whose not one-dimensional and not boring compared to everyone else would be a completely alien thing for me to try and contemplate. 

 There's times when I lament not being a Classic fan but here's one of those instances where I'm so glad I became a fan when I did. 

 

It has really nothing to do with characters or personalities, it's more about these characters are a hindrance on what they enjoy out Sonic...namely, Classic gameplay. In short, these guys who prioritize good game design and whatnot ever plot and characters. 

So the supporting cast just come off as superfluous to them and outright annoying at worse. They like the Sonic series less as a fleshed out world with living characters, and more of a playground where they can take Sonic do all sorts of crazy shit. 

Its a game first and a world second basically. Playing a video game for the game part isn't really unusual is it?

 

 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's so strange to think about to me. I love Sonic's character but he's like my sixth favorite when it comes to the cast, specifically because I feel like there's characters with more "dimension" and have more interesting personalities than him. The idea that he's the one out of this entire cast whose not one-dimensional and not boring compared to everyone else would be a completely alien thing for me to try and contemplate. 

 There's times when I lament not being a Classic fan but here's one of those instances where I'm so glad I became a fan when I did.

Sonic is like my 5th fave Sonic character... He'd be higher on my list if his modern personalty was more like his OVA self. However yeah I'm not sure if most fans actually think Sonic is less shallow then the rest of the cast? I think it's just simple he's the main character/he came first favoritism.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It has really nothing to do with characters or personalities, it's more about these characters are a hindrance on what they enjoy out Sonic...namely, Classic gameplay. In short, these guys who prioritize good game design and whatnot ever plot and characters. 

So the supporting cast just come off as superfluous to them and outright annoying at worse. They like the Sonic series less as a fleshed out world with living characters, and more of a playground where they can take Sonic do all sorts of crazy shit. 

Its a game first and a world second basically. Playing a video game for the game part isn't really unusual is it?

 

 

I would agree that "Classic fans" (I would probably fall under that category) do prioritize the gameplay first and foremost because it is the reason why almost anyone buys a videogame. It has to be realized though that that is mainly because Sonic's gameplay has been all over the place since 1998. In the original era, you'd buy a Sonic game knowing you were getting an excellent quality game underneath the hood and that gave secondary elements a chance to become more important. I remember buying a ton of Sonic comics as a little kid to supplement the game manuals and genuinely being interested in the Sonic universe---of which there were several interpretations---but that is because the games themselves were phenomenal games at their core that made you continually want to be involved with the franchise, and try every new thing. You understood what they were at their core and you trusted them because of that.

Since the original era, every single thing from the gameplay to even the story, has been a roulette table. You don't know what the hell you're going to get, game by game, story by story, and that to me is the ultimate sign of betrayal as a brand loyalist. Why be loyal to the Sonic brand if they don't provide you with consistency? It makes absolutely no sense, and its part of the reason I am sometimes puzzled by the younger fans in this fanbase. You can't possibly have any expectations between games and the stories and yet you support this franchise? Think about how different Sonic Adventure 1 was from Adventure 2...which was different from Heroes...from '06. Complete scattershot in terms of gameplay identity and quality. Why would anyone support THAT? This doesn't really even comment on the actual content itself, which I won't bother to do.

As someone who has experienced the franchise in its days of consistency and best quality, I've got to say that we can do better than this.

 

 

[Wraith]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's so strange to think about to me. I love Sonic's character but he's like my sixth favorite when it comes to the cast, specifically because I feel like there's characters with more "dimension" and have more interesting personalities than him. The idea that he's the one out of this entire cast whose not one-dimensional and not boring compared to everyone else would be a completely alien thing for me to try and contemplate. 

 There's times when I lament not being a Classic fan but here's one of those instances where I'm so glad I became a fan when I did. 

 

Sonic, more than any other character, has had his strong personality at the forefront through his animations, his actions and his gameplay.  If you're someone who doesn't care for the series's writing and longs for simpler days, it's easy to see why a character that has stayed largely simple and cool would stick with you.

 

He's my personal favorite, tied with Blaze, but I see the appeal of some of the extended cast too.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It has really nothing to do with characters or personalities, it's more about these characters are a hindrance on what they enjoy out Sonic...namely, Classic gameplay. In short, these guys who prioritize good game design and whatnot ever plot and characters. 

So the supporting cast just come off as superfluous to them and outright annoying at worse. They like the Sonic series less as a fleshed out world with living characters, and more of a playground where they can take Sonic do all sorts of crazy shit. 

Its a game first and a world second basically. Playing a video game for the game part isn't really unusual is it?

Of course that idea, in and of itself, is not unusual but that's definitely not what we're talking about here. This goes a bit further than that.

If you want to take it from an angle that says they find the characters a hinderance to Classic gameplay... that doesn't really make any logical sense to me either, since the gameplay they're given is dependant on the developer. He seems to like Mania just fine despite the fact that Tails and Knuckles are in it. I'm certain that if any others made appearances, and were given the classic treatment it wouldn't be so totally different as to completely destroy what he liked about the minor differences Tails and Knuckles had. 

When it comes to even the 3D games of today, the characters don't even get used anymore and yet the guy was still bothered by the fact that the goal of the level in Forces was to find Shadow. If his concern actually was to prioritize the gameplay over the story and characters, he wouldn't be lamenting about something that literally only affected the story and characters. Which means he must just not like them because ... they exist. I guess. 

I also don't wish to assume that prioritizing good design means you think the other aspects shouldn't exist. I'm certain there's tons of people who play the games for the sake of the gameplay but aren't bothered by or can enjoy the other elements. What you're describing sounds more like an extreme example of that though and that does seem a little unusual. 

1 hour ago, Josh said:

Sonic, more than any other character, has had his strong personality at the forefront through his animations, his actions and his gameplay.  If you're someone who doesn't care for the series's writing and longs for simpler days, it's easy to see why a character that has stayed largely simple and cool would stick with you.

Sonic's had more an opportunity to showcase it, certainly. I don't take that to mean the others wouldn't be able to as well, given the chance. However, they don't get used anymore so, fat chance of it happening in a way that showcases it well. 

The way the game's utilize themselves to express who he is, certainly is impressive. I don't think that means his actual personality would tower over any of the others in my personal opinion though. 

I, of course, never said he didn't have any of what you're saying he has either.

1 hour ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Sonic is like my 5th fave Sonic character... He'd be higher on my list if his modern personalty was more like his OVA self. However yeah I'm not sure if most fans actually think Sonic is less shallow then the rest of the cast? I think it's just simple he's the main character/he came first favoritism.

Yeah. That's probably what it is.

Nothing wrong with that but growing up with Adventure 2: Battle and Heroes had me view Sonic as one part of a cohesive whole. Recognizing him as the main character didn't win him any favoritism points from me. Which is good because despite that he's still one of my favorites. 

[Kuzu]

4 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Of course that idea, in and of itself, is not unusual but that's definitely not what we're talking about here. This goes a bit further than that.

If you want to take it from an angle that says they find the characters a hindrance to Classic gameplay... that doesn't really make any logical sense to me either, since the gameplay they're given is dependant on the developer. He seems to like Mania just fine despite the fact that Tails and Knuckles are in it. I'm certain that if any others made appearances, and were given the classic treatment it wouldn't be so totally different as to completely destroy what he liked about the minor differences Tails and Knuckles had. 

When it comes to even the 3D games of today, the characters don't even get used anymore and yet the guy was still bothered by the fact that the goal of the level in Forces was to find Shadow. If his concern actually was to prioritize the gameplay over the story and characters, he wouldn't be lamenting about something that literally only affected the story and characters. Which means he must just not like them because ... they exist. I guess. 

I also don't wish to assume that prioritizing good design means you think the other aspects shouldn't exist. I'm certain there's tons of people who play the games for the sake of the gameplay but aren't bothered by or can enjoy the other elements. What you're describing sounds more like an extreme example of that though and that does seem a little unusual. 

Well first, keep in mind this subject is about Forces, not Mania. So let's keep the focus on that. 

Second, I'm mostly speaking from a perspective of somebody who has spoken to numerous people who preferred the series before 1998. I don't know who this guy (this guy being the interviewer this topic is about) is, where he came from, or even what he even likes about Sonic. I dunno, maybe he does hate them for reasons, I have no idea. 

The only point I was making is that there are simply people who do not care for or actively dislike the supporting cast for whatever reason. That's not to say they can't enjoy both good game design and good writing and characters, they just simply have a preference for the former and don't care much for the latter in the context of Sonic. I don't understand how that is such an extreme opinion to have. The only time people became bothered by stuff like plot and characters is when they're actually...not good, which is more often than not and hence why people in general simply don't care for them or actively dislike them at worst.

If they're not prominent like they haven't been for the past 8 or so years, then they simply don't care. 

[Dr. Detective]

2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Well first, keep in mind this subject is about Forces, not Mania. So let's keep the focus on that. 

Second, I'm mostly speaking from a perspective of somebody who has spoken to numerous people who preferred the series before 1998. I don't know who this guy (this guy being the interviewer this topic is about) is, where he came from, or even what he even likes about Sonic. I dunno, maybe he does hate them for reasons, I have no idea. 

The only point I was making is that there are simply people who do not care for or actively dislike the supporting cast for whatever reason. That's not to say they can't enjoy both good game design and good writing and characters, they just simply have a preference for the former and don't care much for the latter in the context of Sonic. I don't understand how that is such an extreme opinion to have. The only time people became bothered by stuff like plot and characters is when they're actually...not good, which is more often than not and hence why people in general simply don't care for them or actively dislike them at worst.

If they're not prominent like they haven't been for the past 8 or so years, then they simply don't care. 

The subject is about Forces (loosely), but the reason I brought up Mania in that passage was because it was relevant to the point I was making about the characters and the reason why equating them to the gameplay the way that you explained doesn't make sense to me. Bringing it up in a specific context isn't the same as changing subjects.

Secondly, the bolded part is implying that you seem to be wholly misunderstanding or outright ignoring what I'm saying. The confusion I highlighted was most certainly not directed at not understanding why people have a preference for good game design over good writing and characters. I even said in the response that you just quoted that I don't have a problem with that and that I don't and didn't consider that to be what the guy in the passage was actually doing. You're working off the assumption that I do, however, and in turn are thinking that I find people who have a preference for good game design over good writing and characters to be an extreme opinion when that's not the case at all. 

What I was talking about is confusion relative to his position on the characters being around at all being something he has an issue with. His talk of being an older fan and his follow-up comments implied that the others were around to appease kids or newer fans. My position was that it makes little sense to say that now because of how long the characters have been around. You responded by trying to explain what you thought the Classic community thought about Sonic's friends and I followed up by saying I thought it strange for me to contemplate thinking that Sonic's character was more dimensional and less boring than a few other characters in the series.

I have no clue where this talk of "I don't understand why preferring good game design over good writing and characters is an extreme opinion" is coming from or why you seem to be focused on that. Once again, that's not what I was talking about. You're the one who brought that up. 

[Multikaris]

3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I don't wanna speak for that guy, but most of the Classic community (but not all) really don't care for the supporting cast. Either they're considered too boring and one-dimensional to care about or they actively see their presence as a hindrance on the series.

So no amount of good character writing might even change their opinion, because as far as some people are concerned, they should have either been forgotten about a long time ago or never been introduced in the first place. Das life.

 

If anything else, I just take it as we're probably not going to be seeing anyone beyond Sonic, Eggman, Tails, and Knuckles if Mania gets any future sequels. 

I think making the characters play well would likely soothe their problems. Or try to get them to target the Wisps instead.

5 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It doesn't even fully make sense to say stuff like that nowadays either. For one, this era where it was just Sonic and Eggman that these guys talk about lasted for about a year before Tails showed up. Even if he were including the Classic trio of Tails and Knuckles, at this point in time, Sonic's friends and allies have been around for an extremely long time. Silver, the newest permanent addition to Sonic's list of friends, debuted in 2006. It's 2017 now. He's been around for over a decade. Kids who were 10 when Sonic 06 came out are 20 now.

Shadow's been in this series for even longer. You'd think by now there'd be at least a little tolerance for personality types different from just what Sonic and Eggman have to offer. At least on a small,level. It's not like that's the same thing as liking his character. You don't have to like Shadow but the way this is often expressed makes it seem like he and a few others aren't even considering who his character even is. Like it's working off of some weird "old versus new" mentality that shouldn't exist anymore.

There's characters I like more than others too but that's just because some personalities just click with me more than some others. It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if better character writing would even matter. Probably not. 

 

Sticks was introduced in 2014. And if we count foes, we have Zavok and Zazz as well as non-combatants Orbot and Cubot. Tikal, Chaos, and Mephiles have proven themselves none too dead as well. 

 

But then again, with Sonic Team in count, Sticks had been NOTHING but party fodder, and Zavok and Zazz had one badly-received plot role before becoming the same. 

And also, you know, how about better gameplay for them rather than writing, to get people to change their minds? Might not even need to write them at all, let alone write them well. I'd take the sadistic, treacherous, and vile Fleetway RINO, the Boom Patrick-alike or Pontaff cardboard prop Knuckles, and other unsavory characterizations if they played well in the gameplay. (If we talk about the Deadly Six, it's gonna take lots of work to save them...)

 

But in a world where there are people like Nkarafo who hate the characters from their designs "which look like they came out of a toddler's cartoon show"... we need to ignore those naysayers and try to prove them wrong! Who's with me? 

[Flyinpenguin117]

I'll start folding the invitations to Modern Sonic's funeral.

[Kellan]

13 minutes ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

I'll start folding the invitations to Modern Sonic's funeral.

See this? This right here is why I have to constantly remind myself that it wouldn't be right for me to root for Mania to fail. Why have things gotten to this point?

[Dr. Detective]

It's important to keep in mind that SEGA and Sonic Team are still the ones in charge of the series going forward. How good Mania will be won't matter going forward if all it takes to change it is someone from up on high going "Alright, we'll take it from here".

And then suddenly you have Sonic 4: Episode III - Dark of the Moon on your hands.

 

[pppp]

10 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's so strange to think about to me. I love Sonic's character but he's like my sixth favorite when it comes to the cast, specifically because I feel like there's characters with more "dimension" and have more interesting personalities than him.

Maybe that's the problem right there. Alot of classic fans don't like how Shiro Maekawa chose to flesh out literally everybody except Sonic, the character that the whole series is named after. Aside from giving Tails an independence arc, fleshing out Knuckles's backstory etc. Maekawa could have given Sonic's story some kind of conflict, similar to Satam or something. Some don't like how he neglected to flesh him out.

[Sephy]

I don't really think it's a Maekawa thing only, but SEGA/Sonic Team thing (maybe Naka or Iizuka at some point?)...In Sonic X he was only a supervisor for Adventure arcs and the series didn't go deep in Sonic's backstory either.

[TB100]

I don't think this means the 3D games are gonna end nor does this mean the end of Modern Sonic.
But it could definitely mean Classic Sonic is staying on the franchise.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

But really, what's with all the "I hope Sonic Mania will succeed so Modern Sonic/ 3d Sonic will die" stuff?

The ultimate baffling point to me is that Modern Sonic has been PRIMARLY focused on bending over backwards to merge with Classic Sonic for a decade now. 3d gameplay barely had a guestrole in their own games, the side cast has been irrelevant for over a decade, we got Green Hill zone shoved in our faces at every turn...

We HAD prodiminently 2d Classic style gameplay for the majority of the games since Sonic 06.
The fact Mania is treated as THE GLORIOUS RETURN of 2d Sonic instead of "Well, here's another one of these awesome games" just shows you that Sonic Team emulating that style is meaningless if they don't focus, don't truly buckle down and NAIL these games, instead of treating it like a magic cheatcode that will make their games sell better.
If Sonic Team's recent games have been dissapointing to you, what do you expect to change? Less Shadow ruining the series? Because those 2 bossfights and one Lego sidequest really dragged the series down.


So I really have to wonder what folks rooting for Mania's succes are hoping for?
Well, yeah, for Sonic Mania 2 of course, good reason.
Or like me and hope Sonic Team learns to focus, TAKE a stand, embrace a vision and Go for it instead of having another Mad scientist pinball rollercoaster labyrinth of several gamestyles and attitudes. Then yeah, whoo, go Mania!

But if you're rooting for Mania Just because you want to see the death of 3d Sonic and Shadow the hedgehog? Yeah, hooray, moral victory. Take THAT, other Sonic fans and your stupid tastes, haha! But other then that, nothing substantial will change. Get ready for Sonic Forces 2, except with flying donuts instead of destroyed cities.
But hey, at least all the 3d sections will be gone! All...  2% of the game they'll occupy.

Look at Classic Sonic's gameplay in Forces. That IS Sonic Team embracing and celebrating Classic Sonic. That's what you're fighting for here. If you like it, great! But, well, you already got it, so what are you fighting for? If you hate it, then clearly just getting Sonic team to make Classic Sonic stuff by itself isn't the answer.


What I want Sonic Team to learn from Mania is about It's attitude. This focused passion and relentless optimism in creating the game that represents their values.
Take a fun concept and then build on that, expand it, explore it.
Sonic Mania happens to take the classic games as it's vision.

And who knows what magic can happen if the same focus and energy is extended to other visions.
Go make a 3d Sonic game with the attitude Taxman's team has with Sonic Mania. Who knows what wonders we'll receive?
2d gameplay has nothing to do with it. Classic Sonic has nothing to do with it. Sonic's friends have nothing to do with it.
Physics has nothi...Well okay, physics has something to do with it, if only because it might lead to them realising that having a stronger and deeper core main gameplay can create endless variaton on it's own without relying on weird side activities.
Point is, Sonic Team themselves is the problem, no matter what particular direction they're pursuing.
 

[Meta77]

19 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I'm a older fan, been with the series from near the start. and I like many of the extended cast and many other older fans I talk with do too.

I'm as old a fan you can get. Born 89. I grew up with sonic. I didn't have a lot of games growing up but sonic was always the games I got.  as more chapters came in my love grew. I love the entire cast but you have blind fanboys that think sonic should always be 2d and always just sonic @.@

[Chris Knopps]

I think the worst case scenario is that Sonic Team decide "Hey they like that! WE will do that now!"

And then we get more of THEIR atrocious 2D game play, and that's being very, VERY polite in how I said that.

If it's not Whitehead or someone else with PROVEN talented history, I'm not buying unless they hit it out of the park on Sonic 1 levels.

[RictalRose0]

On 5/7/2017 at 4:40 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It has really nothing to do with characters or personalities, it's more about these characters are a hindrance on what they enjoy out Sonic...namely, Classic gameplay. In short, these guys who prioritize good game design and whatnot ever plot and characters. 

So the supporting cast just come off as superfluous to them and outright annoying at worse. They like the Sonic series less as a fleshed out world with living characters, and more of a playground where they can take Sonic do all sorts of crazy shit. 

Its a game first and a world second basically. Playing a video game for the game part isn't really unusual is it?

 

 

You know what this makes me think off? Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. In a fighting game, the most important thing should be the gameplay right? And that's what Capcom thinks, just like how SEGA thinks. And yet right now the game has been received terribly by the game press, the general gaming community and ESPECIALLY the Marvel vs Capcom fandom, and why? Because the developers are on record saying "characters are just funtions. So if we don't include the X-Men it doesn't matter. Because it's all about gameplay" and that has caused a lot of backlash from the community. Because people are attached to these characters and do care about more that just gameplay.

The story mode has also been critized and mocked to hell and back due to how lazy and unispired the writing is. 

You see that SEGA? Not eveything is about the gameplay. Not even in the fighting games community. People care about characters, they care about story. Otherwise you might as well make your games look like this.

 

I mean imagine a SEGA person saying something like this "

"Peter Rosas: If you were to actually think about it, these characters are just functions. They're just doing things. Magneto, case and point, is a favorite because he has eight-way dash and he's really fast, right? So our more technical players, all they want to do is triangle jump and that kind of stuff. Well guess what, Nova can do the same thing, Captain Marvel can do the same thing. Ultron can do the same thing. Go ahead and try them out."

 

That comment alone created so much backlash for Capcom. This is kinda the reason the character creator has been received kinda mixed too for Forces. Yes the custom hero can use flamethrowers and shoot things and use melee so why do we need say, Blaze or Shadow or Amy to be playable if at the end of the day, their gameplay functions can be done by this custom character? Well, because people care about these characters. They're attached. It's not about their unique abilities really. People just want to see them and play as them because they care about them. 

 

Erasing these characters, all of them, from the Sonic series in both game and plot would be a mistake and I would be sure to voice my discontent for that as would many others.