Should Sonic Forces be delayed until 2018?

[Happyguy1984]

https://www.vg247.com/2017/07/07/sonic-forces-is-rough-to-the-point-of-being-comical/amp/

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/07/first_impressions_running_scared_from_sonic_forces

http://www.godisageek.com/2017/07/sonic-forces-is-a-confused-game-preview/

There has been some very negative previews emerging about Sonic Forces with the general impression being that it is a worse game than the generally well regarded Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations games.

The last thing Sega and Sonic Team wants is another Sonic 06 or Sonic Boom.

I think Sega should delay the game until next year for 2 reasons.

1) Sega and Sonic Team can look at the negative opinions and make changes to improve the gameplay and level design.

2) If it releases next year it won't be So directly compared with Sonic Mania and Super Mario Odyssey which will give it an even harder time with critics.

I messaged the preview links to Andrew Webster through Facebook and asked him if there was a slim chance he could possibly pass this feedback to Sonic Team/Sega.

Does anyone agree/disagree that a delay would be a good thing?

[MadmanRB]

Indeed we dont want another Boom or 06, though personally leaving Sonic to Christian Whitehead will be a good thing so he can finally make that Sonic 3 for mobile.

Believe me there is a huge part of me that wants forces to fail though, let sonic rest and or die and let it go to the community and not the morons at Sega.

But then again this is only a tech demo, and tech demos can be buggy as all hell

[Zippo]

10 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

But then again this is only a tech demo, and tech demos can be buggy as all hell

This is not a tech demo. 

Forces has been in development for nearly four years. 

[Indigo Rush]

Well.

Delaying the game to make it look and feel a little nicer is always welcome, but in order to really fix the issues a lot of us have with the game would involve completely recomposing the level design, altering the physics engine, and a load of other not so minor changes in that vein to present a game that would make a lot more fans and critics happy to play. It's just not feasible at this point. 

 

[Osmium]

Nah. This game is like '06 conceptually, in that there's already too much rubbish in the system that a few more months isn't gonna fix anything at the core. 

[Indigo Rush]

15 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

But then again this is only a tech demo, and tech demos can be buggy as all hell

This is categorically not a tech demo. It's not a proof of concept to show you what the game could be like, this is an actual snippet of the finished product that they're already putting the finishing touches on. Companies don't showcase games as they go along. They wait until a majority of the groundwork is finished, including planning for level design and scripting, and then show off what happens to be ready for demo. Sonic Forces, I guarantee you, is a complete game and is viable for release just as Sonic Mania is; all that's being done right now is debugging and other finishing touches. It may not be 100% done, but it's far too late to turn back.

 

[Guest]

This game's had a longer development cycle than any of the most recent Sonic games and it STILL looks terrible. Not just in execution, but in basic concepts. I don't think it should be delayed. Let it come out, it's had long enough. I'd rather they sooner squeeze this one out and re-evaluate what the hell they were thinking than give it an additional year to try to make it work.

 

 

[MadmanRB]

4 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

This is categorically not a tech demo. It's not a proof of concept to show you what the game could be like, this is an actual snippet of the finished product that they're already putting the finishing touches on. Companies don't showcase games as they go along. They wait until a majority of the groundwork is finished, including planning for level design and scripting, and then show off what happens to be ready for demo. Sonic Forces, I guarantee you, is a complete game and is viable for release just as Sonic Mania is; all that's being done right now is debugging and other finishing touches. It may not be 100% done, but it's far too late to turn back.

 

Well then perhaps modern Sonic deserves to die, let it burn in the fire and let something new take hold and or let Christian Whitehead do what is really good for Sonic, remake the old games and do retro style levels too.

But then again these only are just three reviews in the grand scheme of things

[Indigo Rush]

Well, that escalated quickly.

And yeah there's more than three less-than-positive previews.

It's not looking good.

[MadmanRB]

Hey if it flops i will be happy, the death of modern Sonic for me is a good thing.

Modern Sonic sucks anyhow only one good game and a crap ton of mediocre and shit games.

[Indigo Rush]

My dear fellow I do believe you are being a bit silly over this. 

[MadmanRB]

Refuge in audacity is the game my friend, but I am honest in thinking that its time for Modern Sonic to go and let classic sonic come back under Christian Whitehead.

Say what you will about Mania re using old levels as its clearly a deication to classic sonic, at least its playable and looks like a enjoyable game.

Compare that to the clearly gimmick ridden Forces.

[Indigo Rush]

This detour isn't taking us anywhere meaningful. You aren't telling me anything I don't already understand.

The point of the thread is discussing the merits of a delay, not the entire state of the Modern Sonic gameplay design.

[MadmanRB]

Well the merits of a delay are obvious, more time to cook and settle the the key to any game.

However none of the reviews have really dove too much into the gameplay.

[Badnik Mechanic]

A delay to 2018 would do absolutely nothing.

Forces' main problem is with it's design not bugs.

[BubbleButt TV]

More time in the oven won't do anything if you're following the wrong recipe.

[NegaMix]

Frankly, unless Forces is delayed long enough to effectively make it a 30th Anniversary game, I can't see anything changing from what we've seen so far.

[Bobnik]

Delay wouldn't really change anything design-wise for this game unless it's to 2019 or something, which is definitely not gonna happen.

 

Also, "Modern should die" comments are so amusing. I don't want to live in a time where the only Sonic games that come out are 2D. The series would stagnate and not progress in any way, shape or form.

[MadmanRB]

Yes but the death of modern sonic is still as good thing, Sonics move to 3D has not been pleasant.

It goes back to the phrase if it ain't broke dont fix it.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, MadmanRB said:

Yes but the death of modern sonic is still as good thing,

How...?

[JosepHenry]

47 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Hey if it flops i will be happy, the death of modern Sonic for me is a good thing.

Modern Sonic sucks anyhow only one good game and a crap ton of mediocre and shit games.

Oh, please. There is a lot of people who love Modern Sonic more than Classic, and their opinion is valid.

Just because you grew up with Classic it doesn't mean you're better than modern fans. 

Modern Sonic's "death" is not going to be good thing. And is completely unnecessary. Is not the green eyes that are not letting games being as good as they are supposed to.

[Speedi]

 

4 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Yes but the death of modern sonic is still as good thing, Sonics move to 3D has not been pleasant.

It goes back to the phrase if it ain't broke dont fix it.

Be careful what you wish for, man. If Forces does badly, and Sonic Team being the overly irrational developing team they are decides to just make 2D games for the rest of the series would you really want that?

[Blacklightning]

58 minutes ago, Zippo said:

This is not a tech demo. 

Forces has been in development for nearly four years. 

Definitely gonna have to quote this for emphasis. If the problems with Forces could ever have been solved with time, they never would have been problems. It just so happens they still made all the same mistakes in 4 years that they usually make with just one, so the amount of time Sonic Team spent developing it turned out to be irrelevant from every standpoint bar arguably a graphical one.

To be honest I just want it to be over and done with. Release the game, let the critical thrashing continue, and hopefully it teaches Sega a much needed lesson about trying to put almost every egg in the same basket for once. Just for once, make a game with a single playstyle and design every playable character around it, rather that mish-mashing tons of irrelevant bullshit together. This shouldn't be rocket science.

[Mad Convoy]

It isn't entirely impossible, however, it would be incredibly expensive and time-consuming as it require gutting a lot of stuff and replacing it from scratch-- such as removing Classic Sonic, redoing the levels, physics modifications, etc. And there's no guarantee that what they would replace it with would be good and that Forces would end up doing well enough to justify the additional cost and effort.

At this point in Forces's development, its most probable and more feasible to go the Fire and Ice route. For Forces, Sonic Team should tweak the controls, add graphical detail, and tweak the level as much as it can so that, if nothing else, the game is not a Sonic 06 level disaster and it at least has a chance of breaking even. Plus, there is Sonic Mania to fall back on this time around, so Sonic's reputation won't be tanked by Forces so long as it isn't a total disaster.

Then, the best thing Sonic Team can do is incorporate the criticisms of Forces in the planning for the next Sonic game. The planning stages of the next game development usually occur 6-8 months after a game is released, so you should definitely get your opinion to Sega of Wherever Is Closest to Where You Live or Sonic Team within that timeframe, preferably ASAP. For the newbies who haven't caught onto this yet, Sonic Team applies generalized criticism with a very strange interpretation, so you should be specific as to what you want.

---

1 hour ago, MadmanRB said:

But then again this is only a tech demo, and tech demos can be buggy as all hell

Its annoying when people act like tech demoes don't represent the final product or offer valuable insights in what the game is like. Normally, I'd try to use a Sonic example but I find with this topic in my experience, people don't tend to take it well when I use Sonic example. So instead, I'm using another game.

Take this prototype of Metroid Prime 3 as an example. (link is to a video) As you can see, there's lots of text on the screen that tells you what version the game is at that point, the textures it is loading, etc. This makes it obvious that the game is still a long ways from being released as it still displays information that is only useful to the developers. You can get a solid idea of the visual direction of the game, though there are still things that need to be added as well as modifications to the HUD, level design, etc. The engine is complete, so you can clearly see what the physics are going to be like as well as the interactions that the game allows, though both will likely be tweaked. You can also get a general idea of how gameplay works-- its a first person shooter that allows you to switch between different visors to accomplish your tasks, that lets you fire missiles but only with an unspecified amount of ammo, that includes other hunters this time around to help you, has destructable environments, and enemy ambushes, along other stuff. You also get an idea of what enemies are going to be in the game. It is also buggy, with the glitched texts, visual effects that don't always appear, as well as occasionally long load times between doors (though this might be due to playing on an emulator). And in all likelihood, there is only one level in the prototype. In short, the game is in no way ready to be sold in its current state. However, you can tell what the game wants to do and how much promise it has. Because that's the point of the prototype-- to tell potential investors why they should put money and/or effort into making Metroid Prime 3 a good game.

So even if Sonic Forces was a prototype and there was still more work to do, then we would still be able make judgements on how it plays, how its engine is, visual direction, etc. Like, I understand thinking that you can't judge game as good or bad that has only a CG trailer out (since those are often not reflective of actual gameplay or even contain footage from the game) or a brief, vague teaser, but c'mon. People have played Forces. We've gotten a few gameplay trailers on Forces. Sonic Team people have been interviewed to talk about Forces. It is safe to make our judgements on what Forces is going to be like. 

[Diogenes]

17 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

Also, "Modern should die" comments are so amusing. I don't want to live in a time where the only Sonic games that come out are 2D. The series would stagnate and not progress in any way, shape or form.

It's entirely possible to get rid of modern Sonic without getting rid of 3D.

Anyway it's been said, but Forces' problems aren't just a matter of polish. A delay isn't going to change a whole lot at this point; they might fix some bugs, tweak the controls, mess with enemy layouts or some small bits of level design, but that kind of stuff's only going to add a fraction of a point to its score at best. The real problems with Forces are too fundamental to be changed this far into development. Delaying it is just prolonging things; Forces is like a bandaid, you want to rip it off quick and get it over with.