Fang and Rouge

[JaidynReiman]

Oftentimes, whenever I see Fang the Sniper referenced, someone is bound to bring up how Rouge stole his role, whether it was the person who first brought it up or not. However, how similar are they, really?

Fang wasn't developed much in his short time, but we can reason some things based on his appearances in the games. He has a love of treasure, yes, but that's where the similarities to Rouge end. Fang is more of a trickster or prankster, it seems. He uses a pop gun (though I do believe that the only reason this happened is because Sega didn't want to use a real gun at the time), and may be slightly insane; this could be reasoned based on his Sonic the Fighters appearance, with all his actions being very visible in his moveset based on how he shoots his weapon in all directions with a cocky grin on his face.

Rouge in a sly, plotting woman with a love of jewels. She is conniving, and manipulates people by seducing them using her feminine charm. She still has a sense of justice, though, and she isn't heartless; she has shown genuine interest in Knuckles (SA2; she flirts with him initially, but she does see good in him afterwards; in all other games, though, the only thing she does is flirt with him), but mostly Shadow and Omega (where she acts as a true friend and genuinely shows compassion for Shadow, despite sometimes flirting).

Both Fang and Rouge also have completely unique movesets. Rouge can fly, climb on walls, swim, and dig. Fang primarily uses his popgun, and sometimes even uses machines, like Eggman's mechs, plus his Marvelous Queen, so he's not technologically inept (not that Rouge isn't, but she doesn't use technology nearly as often).

Frankly, it looks to me that Fang and Rouge are complete opposites more than anything else. You'd be closer comparing Fang to The Joker than Rouge, but I don't think Fang is THAT heartless. I could easily see Fang and Rouge being rivals in the field of treasure hunting if he was ever to return.

Just my thoughts on the matter. I brought it up in another topic when someone made the remark, so I'm wondering what you guys think of it. Thoughts, opinions?

[Phos]

They're both jewel thieves.

[SuperLink]

This is copied from the other thread:

I said:

I don't understand it when people say "But he's like Rouge!" Fang is by far the most original missing character, and he doesn't look out of place with a gun. I could easily see him being one of the most downright horrible enemies, but also being rather clumsy. It sounds pretty awesome to me, why don't they do it?

Even if that's not enough, he has an awesome and unique character design!

I know you said you don't think Fang is heartless, but I think that would make him really original. Just have him as a sneaky, cheating, downright bastard. Personally I'd love him for it, it would make him unforgettable, and the biggest breath of fresh air the series has had for a while. Let's not forget that he is a lot more clumsy than Rouge, so his nastyness could pay the price of skill. He'd make a much better rival for Knuckles or Rouge (Why the hell didn't they revive him instead of making Rouge for SA2? Not saying I dislike Rouge, but it was a great opportunity...

I can see Fang making his own machine for excavation purposes, and to defend his "turf". I also think he'd be less willing to double cross than Rouge, he's not as manipulative, but he may be smarter in his own way.

Damn I'm hyping myself up for his return here...

[Blue Blood]

They're both jewel thieves.

Fang = Rouge = Jet = Wave = Storm

Yeah, that's all they have in common. Blaze and Knuckles are both Emerald Guardians. Tails and Wave are both mechanics. Pickle and Eggman are both brainy hand have funny noses. And something else I realised today, Sonic, Shadow, Silver and Amy are ALL hedgehogs. Weird, huh?

The series has space for characters with similar motifs because they can give edge to others. I like the idea that both Rouge and Nack have a treasure fetish. A rivalry there could really flesh out her personality and roles in games.

[PrincessTikal]

Haha, not to mention I commonly see both Fang and Rouge paired up with each other as a couple...

[Mega]

Idk. I don't like the idea of Fang in a pairing. :B I see him as more of a flirt, but not one to be engaged in romance.

Also, Fang may hunt treasure, but it's for money. He's also more of a bounty hunter in some aspects.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Mega

[Tylec Asroc]

I think there are two good reasons to compare Rouge with Fang/Nack - their roles as 1) jewel hunters, and 2) wild cards.

First, both are characters whose motives are the posession of wealth. While Sonic and Robotnik both desire the chaos emeralds (and master emerald) for the power these jewels possess, Rouge and Nack are after these power stones simply because they make like a Stephanie Meyer vampire and sparkly ever so nicely. They don't care about mysical, cosmic powers, they're only in the emerald-hunting game for material gain.

Second, both characters fill the role of neutral third parties - wild cards - in the great battles of good and evil. The fandom has associated Nack as a bounty hunter - an agent paid to do dirty work by the highest bidder. Likewise, although Rouge has the military as her prefered clientele, her services are to whoever will offer her the best personal advantage. In Sonic Heroes, she teams up with Shadow and Omega to gain the muscle she'll need to rob the Eggman of his money. In ShtH, she saddles up with GUN since the entire planet - and more importantly, her skin - is at stake in an alien invasion. In Sonic Next-Gen, it's clear she's completing a paid military contract to retrieve the Scepter of Darkness, and it seems her mission is extended to following up on Mephilies. Her assistance of Shadow is either a growth of conscience, or a form of character derailment.

Sonic Adventure 2 offers the best example of Rouge playing both sides of the field: she spies on Robotnik for GUN, while at the same time helping the doctor break into a military installation; not to mention she periodically drops both of these contracts to chase after the master emerald shards. Like Fang/Nack, it's all about which side offers her the best deal.

[JaidynReiman]

Mmm, that's not exactly the case for Rouge. Fang is clumsy and pretty much insane. Rouge is calculating, but she's also genuinely interested in people to certain degrees. Fang might be a type of character who would work for the better bidder, but Rouge doesn't just do things solely on who pays her more (though we don't know that Fang does this, but that's his general portrayal). Rouge does it sometimes because she believes it is the right thing to do, as in the case of Shadow the Hedgehog.

In Sonic Heroes, Rouge is off the job and on her own at the moment. She doesn't join Shadow and Omega solely for the muscle. She sticks with them because they all have the same goal. She's not really "using" them; she just realized that they are all seeking out Eggman for their own purposes. She also has a genuine interest in what happened to Shadow, though, because of her closeness to him in SA2 (and if you pay close attention to the SA2 ending, Rouge's comment "besides, there's something else other than jewels I'm thinking about right now" is not directed towards Knuckles, but to Shadow).

Rouge, furthermore, seems to work for G.U.N. also for a twofold purpose. They pay well, but I do think she also does it because of her conscience. She doesn't want to see the world destroyed any more than anyone else, and its not just to save her own hide.

As for "bringing Fang back instead of creating Rouge," again, character is something else. I admittedly thought about it a bit and it could've somewhat worked that way, but not quite. I don't think Fang has the right motives for this kind of thing. He could've been a hire by G.U.N., but why trust a hired gun that could potentially turncoat at any moment? Fang probably already had a past with them, anyway, and they likely wouldn't trust him for such a thing. Rouge may do her own thing once and a while, but she's trustworthy, and she also has genuine interest in things like Shadow.

Plus, it wouldn't work at all to make Fang Knuckles' rival in the game based on how the gameplay styles play out. Gameplay is another factor that Fang simply could not fulfill, no matter what you do.

Blue Blood, that's actually kinda a good point about the four hedgehogs... Sonic and Shadow have more in common than just that, as well, but otherwise, Silver and Amy hardly have any comparisons to those two. They're a lot slower, Silver has telekinesis while Amy has nothing except her hammer, and personality-wise, all of them are completely different. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver have one more similarity, in that they can all use a basic form of Chaos Control (control over time) with the use of a Chaos Emerald, but that's about it. Sonic and Shadow are about on the same level, but Sonic is slightly faster with more rolling abilities, especially counting Bounce Attack, while Shadow has his large variety of Chaos Powers that the others do not have (Chaos Control itself is the only shared ability).

[The Adventurer]

They get compared a lot because they share an obvious similarity; They're both in it for profit. There's not a lot of other characters like that in Sonic.

Personally, I prefer Fang, because he's probably the only Sonic character I could see pulling off a real gun after the mess Shadow made. He's called Fang the Sniper for a reason. That, and he's got an awesome hat.

[Sean]

Personally, I prefer Fang, because he's probably the only Sonic character I could see pulling off a real gun after the mess Shadow made. He's called Fang the Sniper for a reason. That, and he's got an awesome hat.

Replacing Fang's popper pistol would be of the greatest sin. How.. how could you do such a thing?

I don't care for Rouge because in SA2, she was little else than romantic fodder for Knuckles. I never really thought of the two in the same sentence, because my initial impression of Fang was a polar opposite, having first seen him in the Archie comics.

In fact, I think Fang is just too good to return to the games. Same reason why Bean and Bark haven't returned, or why Big or Vector haven't usurped Sonic's position as the main character yet! (It'll happen one day, though)

[SuperLink]

Fang could definitely pull off a gun easier than Shadow. I don't think he should use real guns primarily though. Sonic Adventure style perhaps? Sonic's matured a bit (unfortunately?) so being limited to a cork gun isn't necessary.

Cork gun > BB gun > SNIPER!!!

Rouge is a genuinly good person, she's proven that she cares about the wellbeing of others even alongside jewels. Fang we havn't seen much of, but he seems like he'd rather get in everyone's way than work with someone.

[JaidynReiman]

Mmm... I don't see how Rouge is "romantic fodder" for Knuckles. She's intended to be Knuckles' rival, and she hits on him, but she hits on pretty much every guy she sees if it'll help her. She doesn't show genuine interest in Knuckles until after he leaves, and even then, he doesn't show any interest in her. In truth, Rouge shows far more interest in Shadow, as she has been doing ever since, pretty much (the only games where she doesn't interact with Shadow a whole lot at all are in Sonic Chronicles and Sonic Rivals 2).

[CreamyBagel]

If anything Rouge was made for the girls to play as. Since they pushed Amy out, for whatever reason, they needed a replacement and that was Rouge.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

If anything Rouge was made for the girls to play as. Since they pushed Amy out, for whatever reason, they needed a replacement and that was Rouge.

They pushed Amy out because they need a character on the dark side for SA2.

[Tylec Asroc]

Mmm, that's not exactly the case for Rouge. Fang is clumsy and pretty much insane. Rouge is calculating, but she's also genuinely interested in people to certain degrees. Fang might be a type of character who would work for the better bidder, but Rouge doesn't just do things solely on who pays her more (though we don't know that Fang does this, but that's his general portrayal). Rouge does it sometimes because she believes it is the right thing to do, as in the case of Shadow the Hedgehog.

In Sonic Heroes, Rouge is off the job and on her own at the moment. She doesn't join Shadow and Omega solely for the muscle. She sticks with them because they all have the same goal. She's not really "using" them; she just realized that they are all seeking out Eggman for their own purposes. She also has a genuine interest in what happened to Shadow, though, because of her closeness to him in SA2 (and if you pay close attention to the SA2 ending, Rouge's comment "besides, there's something else other than jewels I'm thinking about right now" is not directed towards Knuckles, but to Shadow).

That is just fandom speculation. Considering that Rouge was introduced as Knuckles' rival and that the two shared an awkward "romantic" moment near the end of SA2, she's clearly referring to the echidna. Future games do nudge forward the possibility of shadouge pairings, but at the immediate moment, Rouge's interests are meant to lie with Knuckles.

Rouge's final interactions with Shadow go along the lines of "do as I say, woman, or I'll kill you", while she's interested in deflating his ultimate ego with revelations that he may not be the real Shadow. Clearly they part ways on a loving note.

Rouge, furthermore, seems to work for G.U.N. also for a twofold purpose. They pay well, but I do think she also does it because of her conscience. She doesn't want to see the world destroyed any more than anyone else, and its not just to save her own hide.

The question is, were Nack/Fang an assist character in ShtH, would he not also be a "hero" character, fighting against the Black Arms? Surely he doesn't want the world destroyed anymore than Rouge - it's not like he'd have anywhere else to go.

As for "bringing Fang back instead of creating Rouge," again, character is something else. I admittedly thought about it a bit and it could've somewhat worked that way, but not quite. I don't think Fang has the right motives for this kind of thing. He could've been a hire by G.U.N., but why trust a hired gun that could potentially turncoat at any moment? Fang probably already had a past with them, anyway, and they likely wouldn't trust him for such a thing. Rouge may do her own thing once and a while, but she's trustworthy, and she also has genuine interest in things like Shadow.

Again, I'll reference SA2. On the one hand, the dark side story unfolds as it does for gameplay potential (invading a military island and robbing a high-security vault makes for a fun experience), but under a more story-driven premise, if Rouge's assignment for GUN is to spy on Robotnik and deliver information about the Ultimate Lifeform, then why not simply deliver her teammates into a trap on Prison Island? The military could extract all the data they need from a re-captured Shadow. Instead, the bat-girl gives Robotnik all the data he needs to invade Prison Island, steals three chaos emeralds from her employers, and personally destroys (kills?) the Flying Dog (and its pilot?). Because of her actions, all the military equipment and personnel on the island are wiped out in a mass explosion. How can Rouge be considered "trustworthy" when she so clearly betrays and attacks the people she works with in order to build up her collection of chaos emeralds? ("I have six of them. They're mine - all mine!")

[JaidynReiman]

That is just fandom speculation. Considering that Rouge was introduced as Knuckles' rival and that the two shared an awkward "romantic" moment near the end of SA2, she's clearly referring to the echidna. Future games do nudge forward the possibility of shadouge pairings, but at the immediate moment, Rouge's interests are meant to lie with Knuckles.

Rouge's final interactions with Shadow go along the lines of "do as I say, woman, or I'll kill you", while she's interested in deflating his ultimate ego with revelations that he may not be the real Shadow. Clearly they part ways on a loving note.

You may want to re-watch that scene. Shadow makes that remark, but Rouge's remark after the fact is one thing of note I'm referring to. When she's saying "even your memories may not be real, you know?" she's not mocking him or trying to deflate his ego. Her attitude is more of remorse, and her face clearly shows it, as well. The ending of that scene really doesn't have Shadow demand her to listen to him; AFTER that point things change a bit.

As for the ending, again I say that Rouge is the one who first shows signs of remorse for Shadow, and she receives the ring. She also appears to be looking at Shadow's ring as she's talking to Knuckles. Maybe her thoughts are somewhat on Knuckles, but they're mostly on Shadow.

The question is, were Nack/Fang an assist character in ShtH, would he not also be a "hero" character, fighting against the Black Arms? Surely he doesn't want the world destroyed anymore than Rouge - it's not like he'd have anywhere else to go.

He would, but he'd also be working to save his own hide. He wouldn't work with G.U.N., would he? More than likely, as most crooks do, he'd tear down the aliens, all the while using the confusion to steal as much treasure as he wants. Rouge bypasses her wants for treasure during this point; even saying that "at any other time I'd be out here treasure hunting," or something like that, during the Death Ruins stage.

Again, I'll reference SA2. On the one hand, the dark side story unfolds as it does for gameplay potential (invading a military island and robbing a high-security vault makes for a fun experience), but under a more story-driven premise, if Rouge's assignment for GUN is to spy on Robotnik and deliver information about the Ultimate Lifeform, then why not simply deliver her teammates into a trap on Prison Island? The military could extract all the data they need from a re-captured Shadow. Instead, the bat-girl gives Robotnik all the data he needs to invade Prison Island, steals three chaos emeralds from her employers, and personally destroys (kills?) the Flying Dog (and its pilot?). Because of her actions, all the military equipment and personnel on the island are wiped out in a mass explosion. How can Rouge be considered "trustworthy" when she so clearly betrays and attacks the people she works with in order to build up her collection of chaos emeralds? ("I have six of them. They're mine - all mine!")

They need the information from the Ark. Shadow doesn't have that information, and Eggman isn't about to give it up. Rouge works with them until she can access the information from the Ark's Central Control Room, which is the only place it can be found. It also isn't shown that she kills the Flying Dog's pilot at all. She destroys the ship, and the soldier escapes. Plus, she isn't technically working for G.U.N. until later games; she's working directly for the President in SA2. And even so, its quite likely that she contacted the President about the plan beforehand and had the island evacuated.

As for the emeralds, she clearly says "Now that my job is done" a little later when Shadow arrives. Her job was complete, so she chose to swipe the emeralds since she was ready and able to do so. They were there and unguarded. It wasn't all about "building up her collection of Chaos Emeralds" at all.

Maybe it was on her thoughts, but her primary concentration was on completing her mission, and as a spy you have to fulfill your role to its fullest. She needed Eggman's trust to get the password in the first place.

[Max Gene]

Why, when analyzing Rouge's remarks at the end of the game, would you choose to think she's subtly expressing romantic thoughts towards the obvious "dead" guy over the living guy right behind her? She's going to give up jewel hunting for awhile... so that she can spend time with Shadow? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I never even considered her remarks to be possibly aimed at Shadow.

[JaidynReiman]

I'm not saying she's going to give up jewel hunting for Shadow. It just seems like she's thinking about Shadow because of what had happened recently. Maybe part of her thoughts were on Knuckles, but really, its not so much that she's thinking about spending her time with someone, but that she's got a lot on her mind and she really can't be bothered to do it at the time. Knuckles doesn't really seemed interested much in her, anyway.

[Crystal Kingfisher]

They're always being compared because they're jewel thieves.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I found Rouge's SA2 backstory kinda confusing...I mean, she's on the wrong side of the law because she's a jewel thief, but she's also on the right side by being a GUN agent?

...Unless the only jewels she "steals" are ones that are out in the middle of nowhere like the Master Emerald, which I guess would make her more of an Indiana Jones type character.

But unlike Sonic X, I don't think the exact details of her thievery have been made clear in the games. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Diogenes]

I think it's more that the government looks the other way because she's useful to them. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, you do a little spying for us and we'll look the other way when you nab a few jewels.

[Blazey Firekitty]

think it's more that the government looks the other way because she's useful to them. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, you do a little spying for us and we'll look the other way when you nab a few jewels.

I like that. It actually makes a lot of sense and is even kind of amusing.