New Sonic Forces - "Enter Infinite" Trailer

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, Azure P said:

They're all edgy. It's kind of a staple of the Sonic franchise now.

You keep saying edgy. But you won't say what makes them edgy? Why?

[Osmium]

He's got black scleras with red pupils. Truly the most edgy version of any character in the series 

[Milo]

4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Just a reminder sonic 06 was on the Xbox platinum label at the end of its run

Sonic 2006 didn't even crack one million units at the end of its fiscal year. The Platinum (Family) Hits label it got is absolutely meaningless to its actual sales numbers. The notion that Sonic 2006 sold well in spite its quality is a myth.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

have no issue with other villains besides Eggman one upping Sonic, because let's be real, Eggman would start feeling like Ganon if he was always the one in control. This is why Lost World's climax just falls flat to me. Yea, Eggman ends up being the final boss...for like what, 100th time. Ooohh. And I love Eggman, don't misunderstand, but there is such a thing as a character being overexposed at the expense of everything else, yes this includes the central villain. :V

Fuckin'...just a couple of years ago, even, everyone was complaining about how Eggman would always get screwed out of being the actual final boss. Chaos, the Biolizard, Metal Sonic, Black Doom, Solaris, Dark Gaia. And then we finally get just a couple of games where the series' main villian finally gets to be the actual big threat again, and we're already sick of it?

[Azure P]

1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

You keep saying edgy. But you won't say what makes them edgy? Why?

Because others have already explained why. It's redundant for me to do so.

[Indigo Rush]

6 minutes ago, Azure P said:

They're all edgy. It's kind of a staple of the Sonic franchise now.

We can fix that.

1 minute ago, Azure P said:

Because others have already explained why. It's redundant for me to do so.

What did they say, then?

[Dee Dude]

I swear, by the end of the day, we're all gonna suffer from Semantic satiation...

[Nepenthe]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Fuckin'...just a couple of years ago, even, everyone was complaining about how Eggman would always get screwed out of being the actual final boss. Chaos, the Biolizard, Metal Sonic, Black Doom, Solaris, Dark Gaia. And then we finally get just a couple of games where the series' main villian finally gets to be the actual big threat again, and we're already sick of it?

Who is this we?

I never gave a damn who the final boss was because I don't think it ever mattered as much as people insisted it did. For one, my favorite characterizations of Eggman happen in games where he isn't the final boss anyway. Two, there's only ever been two options presented for us in the same contexts every time-- Eggman is gonna be in some giant robot you defeat like all the other robots in the game, or a giant monster is gonna be rampaging and you defeat by flying into it some way. Neither option is particularly novel at this point in the franchise's lifespan, so I never empathized with people perpetually pissed that we weren't getting option 1, because we know exactly how option 1 is going to turn out. Both are played out.

[Indigo Rush]

Here, since no one else wants to own up to it:

we've defined edgy

none of which define Sonic the Hedgehog, but may define many of the villains.

we can move on now

[Wraith]

I think for this premise in particular it would be more effective for Eggman to be the ONLY antagonist. He should have stepped up his game significantly to pull this off and the player should get some satisfaction out of overcoming him again. Adding another villain just does him a disservice. 

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Fuckin'...just a couple of years ago, even, everyone was complaining about how Eggman would always get screwed out of being the actual final boss. Chaos, the Biolizard, Metal Sonic, Black Doom, Solaris, Dark Gaia. And then we finally get just a couple of games where the series' main villian finally gets to be the actual big threat again, and we're already sick of it?

Ok..so...here's the thing. Eggman, has been the main threat and final boss WAY more than he hasn't. So stop acting like he isn't the most central and recurring villain of the series. All of those other characters you listed were destroyed or only around for one game. Eggman is STILL around and STILL plays a major role, even if it isn't always being the largest figure.

I don't think him stepping aside for somebody else isn't as big a deal as everyone else makes it out to be and I always roll my eyes at these statements. 

[Osmium]

But seriously we can stop comparing Metal Sonic to Infinite now since they have very little in common apart from scowly faces with irregular sclera and pupil colour 

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

I think for this premise in particular it would be more effective for Eggman to be the ONLY antagonist. He should have stepped up his game significantly to pull this off and the player should get some satisfaction out of overcoming him again. Adding another villain just does him a disservice. 

By all means, I agree with this. I just hate the idea there shouldn't be any other villains allowed aside from Eggman. In the context of this game alone, yea I'd prefer Eggman to be the sole bad guy. But in the context of wanting an actual Rogues Gallery, there's nothing wrong with Eggman not being the central villain all of the time.

[Badnik Mechanic]

8 minutes ago, Azure P said:

Because others have already explained why. It's redundant for me to do so.

A lot of them are taking the piss.

Look just copy and paste, I'm genially interested as to what you see that I don't as to why it's edgy, it's not that hard to do especially if someone else has done it for you. Or just post a link to the post and I'll read that.

[Ratcicle King]

3 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Here, since no one else wants to own up to it:

we've defined edgy

none of which define Sonic the Hedgehog, but may define many of the villains.

we can move on now

Half those examples aren't inherently bad tho', saying something is ''edgy'' doesn't equal it's bad.

You can say 90% of the shit happening in Metal Gear Rising is edgy, but at the end of the day, most will agree that game was great.

[Azure P]

8 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Here, since no one else wants to own up to it:

we've defined edgy

none of which define Sonic the Hedgehog, but may define many of the villains.

we can move on now

Taking coolness to its extreme and generally beyond the realm of actual possibility, at the same time seemingly unaware of how ridiculous it is.

So a blue hedgehog running at mach speeds whilst having attitude of a 'cool dude' is not fitting that description? To me, that describes Sonic perfectly in his debut in the 90s.

[Nepenthe]

3 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

But seriously we can stop comparing Metal Sonic to Infinite now since they have very little in common apart from scowly faces with irregular sclera and pupil colour 

Don't forget that Infinite has actually managed to canonically damage Sonic whereas Metal, well, hasn't yet.

Spoiler

But Metal is totes best villain.

 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Fuckin'...just a couple of years ago, even, everyone was complaining about how Eggman would always get screwed out of being the actual final boss. Chaos, the Biolizard, Metal Sonic, Black Doom, Solaris, Dark Gaia. And then we finally get just a couple of games where the series' main villian finally gets to be the actual big threat again, and we're already sick of it?

If I may add my own two cents, I think part of the problem with why people might feel sick of Eggman or that he feels underwhelming is that he doesn't feel like he actually earned his position as final boss. A lot of the games post Unleashed where he became the final boss never really let him actually show his power as a villain. They actively undermined his position and only seemed to remember that he was supposed to be the big bad near the end and shoehorned him in without any proper buildup.

For example:

Colors: spends most of game gloating about what he'll do to aliens and his mind control cannon, attempts mind control that lasts for short period of time and then loafs around for most of the game, laser at the end fails without Sonic even realizing it, then Eggman pulls monster thing out of nowhere and fights Sonic. 

Generations: He was barely there until the end.

Lost World: does something for the first part of the game, then gets usurped for the bulk of the game and mocked by everyone with him doing nothing to show that he's still competent. Then suddenly at the end he claims to have pulled a gambit at the end with generic robot #547 despite most of the game not even DOING anything (that we can see), and we're suddenly supposed to take him seriously?

As you can see, there's a consistent pattern of Eggman doing nothing and having no proper buildup to him being the final villain, a lot of moments dedicated to mocking him with very little to act as a balance where he SHOWS his competence. This could have been rectified if the cutscenes/gameplay showed him proactively trying to stay one step ahead of Sonic, but most of the time it's spent treating him as PURELY a joke.

Contrast this with the Adventure games and to a much lesser extent, Unleashed. In the former two, he's being proactive and showing that while he might be someone to laugh at or with, he's also extremely capable of immense competence and cunning to counter it. This doesn't show up as much in Unleashed, but it is there to a lesser extent. Yes it is true that he DOES get usurped at the end, but for the bulk of those games he's the focus and main enemy, and he does well with what he's given. Also those usurpers usually tended to be being far beyond his power tier or had agendas that he could not have possibly known about, so it's not like it's entirely his own fault.

 

Basically put, in the games where he's supposed to be the big bad, he's consistently never SHOWN living up to that credential, making him appear far more inept than he could potentially be.

[Wraith]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

By all means, I agree with this. I just hate the idea there shouldn't be any other villains allowed aside from Eggman. In the context of this game alone, yea I'd prefer Eggman to be the sole bad guy. But in the context of wanting an actual Rogues Gallery, there's nothing wrong with Eggman not being the central villain all of the time.

Well, yeah, the general sentiment here isn't "Eggman should be the bad guy all the time." but "They should have just let eggman have this one." I've been a fan of the idea of a rogue's gallery for a while , but they picked the wrong time to start trying for one again.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Fuckin'...just a couple of years ago, even, everyone was complaining about how Eggman would always get screwed out of being the actual final boss. Chaos, the Biolizard, Metal Sonic, Black Doom, Solaris, Dark Gaia. And then we finally get just a couple of games where the series' main villian finally gets to be the actual big threat again, and we're already sick of it?

I can't speak for anyone else but I can't really be sick of it because I never really bought it personally. That was mostly because of the writing though. In Unleashed he was great but aside from that, I couldn't take a single lick of him seriously in Colors, much less see him as a threat. Same with Generations. Lost World wrote him a lot better until the end where they lazily shoved him in as the final boss because they heard through the grapevine that that's what everyone wants. It's not even like I would have minded him being the final boss in that game but it needed to feel a bit better than what they did with that rushed ending. 

Ultimately, I do like seeing Eggman be the big bad again in some instances. I haven't even fully given up the idea that he could still be when it comes to this game really. But it's not going to mean anything if I don't feel he's being treated like a threat or if it comes off as though the writers are just doing it to appease the people complaining about it.

Maybe it satisfied some people but my reaction was always just "Meh.. whatever..." because that's how it felt like the stories were treating it to me.

And wanting Eggman to be the big bad again also doesn't mean I instantly hate it whenever he's not. I absolutely love the idea of making Eggman a wild card in the game's narrative. That's actually one of my favorite things about him in the third season of Sonic X._{^{And Shadow the Hedgehog if I'm being completely honest.}}

Really, I'm fine with alternating him as the main villain. I probably won't give a shit if I feel the story is good. Hopefully I'll enjoy it regardless.

 

[Indigo Rush]

1 minute ago, Azure P said:

so a blue hedgehog speeding at mach speeds whilst having attitude of a 'cool dude' is not fitting that description? To me, that describes Sonic perfectly in his debut in the 90s.

Hah, I made you explain yourself.

Make a topic about it, and we can talk about it more. Otherwise, we're done.

[Azure P]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Hah, I made you explain yourself.

Make a topic about it, and we can talk about it more. Otherwise, we're done.

Edgy.

 

But yeah. As Ratcicle King mentioned. Just because some one or some thing is edgy, doesn't make it inherently bad.

[MudHunter]

Despite Infinite being edgy, I still think that the game will have a baldy mcnosehair type of story so I'm not really worried about it being like Sonic 06/ShTh again.

[redhellc]

I don't want to deviate the conversation much.

But just for curiosity, and I don't know if someone has talked about this before, I'm not the only one that sees a a japonese Kyubi inspired design in Infinite?

  

[Meta77]

39 minutes ago, Yeow said:

Sonic 2006 didn't even crack one million units at the end of its fiscal year. The Platinum (Family) Hits label it got is absolutely meaningless to its actual sales numbers. The notion that Sonic 2006 sold well in spite its quality is a myth.

Does not matter the game has sold over 2 million combined with xbox and ps3