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So why are people calling Infinite edgy?

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So in the Infinite trailer topic... I keep seeing people and in some cases the same people constantly gush over infinite. At first I thought people were mocking him and to be fair a lot are.

But I've noticed many here and elsewhere are being dead serious.

People love infinite because he's edgy.

I have asked why many times. Others have asked why. Nobody has explained why other than people taking the piss.

Currently the only clues I have based on some reaction posts are as follows.

* He has claws.

* He is red and black.

* He has a scary voice.

* His theme tune is somewhere between noise and sorta tolerable to listen to... but includes lyrics that are scary and make him sound mean so it gets a pass.

* He's faster than Sonic.

And... I don't get it. How is that edgy? We've had red and black clawry villains before with scary voices. Nobody called them edgy.

So... can someone who thinks that infinite is edgy please explain why?

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4 minutes ago, TheBlueGuardian said:

I think Infinte is quite edgy, from what I saw in the trailer he can stop time, manipulate dimensions, be faster than Sonic, manipulate people, has an epic theme, and be a general badass, is there any more for me to say?

That's...Not being edgy... That's just being overpowered.

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3 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

So in the Infinite trailer topic... I keep seeing people and in some cases the same people constantly gush over infinite. At first I thought people were mocking him and to be fair a lot are.

But I've noticed many here and elsewhere are being dead serious.

People love infinite because he's edgy.

I have asked why many times. Others have asked why. Nobody has explained why other than people taking the piss.

Currently the only clues I have based on some reaction posts are as follows.

* He has claws.

* He is red and black.

* He has a scary voice.

* His theme tune is somewhere between noise and sorta tolerable to listen to... but includes lyrics that are scary and make him sound mean so it gets a pass.

* He's faster than Sonic.

And... I don't get it. How is that edgy? We've had red and black clawry villains before with scary voices. Nobody called them edgy.

So... can someone who thinks that infinite is edgy please explain why?

Those traits are indeed not necessarily associated with being edgy. However, they are associated with Shadow, who has a reputation for being edgy. They're also associated with Black Doom and the Black Arms, which if nothing else are generally accepted as an attempt by Sonic Team to be edgy. Ergo, Infinite is edgy. That and Infinite is comparatively darker and edgier when compared to the Deadly Six and Eggman's current interpretation.

Granted, I don't think Infinite is really all that edgy, but I suppose that was an attempt at explaining the logic.

Also, at the expense of looking quite dumb, I thought people who thought Infinite was edgy generally didn't like his edginess, thinking that it makes it hard to take Infinite seriously and/or likening it to something from dredges of the Adventure era. Can you elaborate on that a bit?

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Because it's a transparent marketing ploy, using a fake concept to appear dangerous, while being devoid of any proper character or nuance.

It's the tonal opposite of the 'moe-blob' cliche, where instead of making interesting characters that are appealing, second-rate anime shows instead fill their casts with generic cute highschool girls.

They fall into the basic role of doing cute things and appealing to the adolescent male fantasy, just as characters like Infinite (at first glance) fall into the basic role of looking dangerous and appealing to the teenage male power fantasy.

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Just now, Mad Convoy said:

Can you elaborate on that a bit?

Well I've not said that so I'm not sure I can... But in reply to this and to @TheBlueGuardian's post. We know nothing about the character yet he has all these ridiculous over powered abilities to make him seem simple.

It makes me almost nostalgic for when I played with action figures and I thought that I had to make 1 figure (normally a terminator or predator figure) a super powered being of absolute destruction which usually wiped out all my other figures when all I had to do was make him a threat.

Since the 3D games became a reality. The threat was a series of events which led to a catastrophic event. But you could still defeat what appeared to be the big bad. Chaos you could beat. Shadow you could beat. It made sense.

Now the big bad has become the effective monster of the week. The all powerful being that can destroy everything just because powers can make something threatening.

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Just now, Stasis said:

I'm actually getting fed up with the term 'edgy'. 

Can we just rename the series Sonic the Edgehog and be done with it?

Honestly, we should be waiting til the game releases and we can actually see Infinite in action before determining if he's edgy or not. Mephiles is a prime example. If you looked at his design, you'd just see Crystal Shadow, then cut to the game, and he's doing nothing but talking about grimdark shit, and trying to kill Sonic constantly.

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2 minutes ago, Alienrun said:

I'm curious Mayor D...what is YOUR defenition of Edgy?! :/

I don't really like using that word and try to avoid it.

I've always found people tend to use it to kinda describe something that they find cool and 'not kiddy', most of the time it's because they don't want people laughing at them for liking a thing.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Well I've not said that so I'm not sure I can...

You did say that in the opening post of this topic. Here's the quote.

26 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

People love infinite because he's edgy.

I have asked why many times. Others have asked why. Nobody has explained why other than people taking the piss.

This is the part I would like some elaboration on, given that my experience with reactions to Infinite's supposed edginess has been that people don't like edge.

Though I do side with the "edge is overly vague" camp.

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Edgy seems to be nebulous of a term, if anything a negative connotation. Before I started digging for definitions, I always figured "edgy" meant a combination of brooding, over-dramatic, paired with 'intense' music like metal-core or screamo, arrogant, Mary-suish, associated with dark colors and blood red because blood is intense...

...that's about it, really. Being incredibly 'intense' and 'dark,' having an irreverent and condescending personality, possessing comparatively ridiculous abilities and powers; all of it to the point to where it becomes difficult to take seriously. Shadow, for instance, is a bit of a tragic, dark character teetering on the edge of... edgy (Oh dark the darkness that dozes in the dusk lol), but it wasn't until his titular game where he came in guns literally ablazing fighting grotesque monsters and swearing like a sailor to dark metal music in a destroyed city with his troubled flashbacks of his best friend dying did it really solidify his place as an 'edgy' character: it went over the top.

Infinite goes over the top. In addition to his off-kilter and 'intense' design choices, he possesses ridiculous abilities (in the context of the series, anyway) that make him "better" than the main cast somehow, his theme song not only sounds punkish, but the lyrics talk about how he's all powerful and has a pained past. Compare that to the relatively cute but cool blue hedgehog with bright red sneakers, the squeaky voiced fox and the usual villain who's big, clownish and has a comical mustache and builds robot lady bugs, I think he can stand alongside Shadow as an edgelord.

tl;dr: a lot of it is perception and comparison, but Infinite is a pretty intense and dark looking character with an over-the-top presentation rivaled only by that picture of Shadow with a giant machine gun in an exploding city.

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Personally I was mostly just throwing it out as a minor gag.

Edgy for me is honestly irrelevant as long as I feel the character or concept is interesting and it does these things well enough.

That being said, edgy based on what I see tends to be something used when it's targeted at something that is supposed to be darker and more mature, but due to a lack of understanding of what exactly darker and more mature is (usually leans towards characters or scenarios where tough morally grey choices are made and beliefs are heavily challenged and put under scrutiny in an imperfect flawed world where people's motives aren't always purely black and white, although they do exist) instead comes off as juvenile, over the top dark and dark for it's own sake (gore, sex, swear words for the sake of appearing mature rather than doing so because it's a character quirk or it's just a normal thing, murder for the sake of appearing dark, etc.).

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12 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

I don't really like using that word and try to avoid it.

I've always found people tend to use it to kinda describe something that they find cool and 'not kiddy', most of the time it's because they don't want people laughing at them for liking a thing.

 

If you yourself can't define it then the word serves no purpose to you no? Like...how can ANY of our defenitions feel satisfactory to you when the core problem is that you don't like having the word thrown around in the first place?

Noone is entitled to give you an objective defenition, just take our subjective analysis on why some of us think Infinite is "Edgy", learn from it and take your leave!

I really can't think of a better solution! This seems like a classic case of making a situation more complex than it actually is lol

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Whether or not someone likes using a word in particular has no bearing on the issue of defining what the word is to achieve understanding. I myself hate the term "edgy," because I don't think it's particularly helpful in discourse about the narrative and characters due to the way it's been thrown around at everything and anything any given fan can find distasteful.

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As ridiculous as this might sound, Shadow is the only character I would consider "edgy", more specifically his portrayal in Sonic Adventure 2.

He was a "brave and heroic hedgehog". An anti-hero. An equal rival to Sonic and played by his own rules.

Image result for shadow sa2 gif

 

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Just now, Alienrun said:

Like...how can ANY of our defenitions feel satisfactory to you when the core problem is that you don't like having the word thrown around in the first place?

Well you could try offering one so those of us who don't get why people are using that word can get some understanding of it?

Isn't that how people learn things they don't know? By asking and getting some form of an answer?

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I particularly don't understand why Infinite is considered edgy. Not only have we not seen much of in in action other than the trailer, but so far, he hasn't acted that edgy. and to me, no, having a "scary" voice does not mean he is edgy, nor does looking the way he does mean he is necessarily edgy. I believe he has to do more than that to prove that he is indeed edgy.

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Despite it being a throwaway joke these days, edgy used to just mean that it defies conventional norms and societal expectations.  This can be a good thing.  Sonic himself was at one point an example of this.  Shadow being edgy by basically being evil Sonic was arguably tolerable and even likable in SA2.  Batman: The Animated Series is still considered one of the greatest cartoons of all time, and it was born of the "darker and edgier" craze of the 90's.  The problem is that the 90's made such a thing out of it, that it's become akin to disco.  It's retrospectively considered a weak point of that era.

These days, I think people tend to use it in place of words and phrases like "pretentious," "try hard," or "poser-ish" particularly as it pertains to people and things of rebellious nature.  Things that are controversial on a surface level but not backed up by anything substantial to actually warrant it  Bonus points if the personalities and motivations of the characters turn out to be shallow, petty, or indicative that it was written by or for an outraged teenager (a group not particularly well known for their exceptional long-term decision making).  Say, for example, DC's New 52 initiative that cranks the unnecessary violence meter up to a 11, but doesn't really have good writing, relatable characters, or any kind of interesting social commentary or introspective analysis.  The use of violence is to display said violence as a selling point, rather than what it means in the context of the narrative.  Telltale's Batman, while an otherwise good series, is another good example where the retelling of Bruce's origin story is so laughably over-the-top that it kind of undermines that we're supposed to care about the deaths of the characters, not which body part they lose in the process.

That being said, I have no idea why Infinite is considered "edgy" either.  He just looks like Generic Cartoon Villain to me.  No different than Spooky from Pac-Man World 2.

latest?cb=20140507030123

 

The annoying thing is, the use of "edgy" as a derogatory term isn't an invalid criticism.  Hollow characterization and overtly-simplistic themes are bad writing.  That doesn't mean the work in itself is inherently bad.  Sometimes we need simplistic little pleasures in our life.  Sometimes I just want to watch cute characters be cute, sometimes I just want to watch people punch each other.  Doesn't need a particularly complex series of reasons to justify it.  It's just fun.  There's nothing inherently wrong with that.  It just means that work isn't likely to top Shakespeare anytime soon.

The problem is that ever since Forces was revealed during the 25th anniversary presentation last year, I feel like the term has been used to describe anything that... well, has a plot.

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Given the mixed replies on this topic alone, I think I figured out what the problem is...

We all have different definitions of the same word! Up to this point though, I never considerded that a problem, because when someone says "X character is Egdy" its not the word I harp on, but rather the context in which the word is being used. I may not know EXACTLY what the person means when they say edgy, but I have enough of a general idea that I can make my own conclusions on what's being said.

With that being said though, I have never seen the word edgy being used in a 100% serious manner/an analytic discusion amongst "analysts" if you will. The term Edgy (at least to me) is used in a jokingly way to make fun of something for trying too hard to be cool in an over the top way that doesn't seem self aware of it doing so.

For example if someone says Cloud from FF7 is edgy they don't mean that literately, because he is actually a well developed character and thus the term doesn't mean anything, what they mean is that he comes off as edgy and thus is an easy target to make fun of. (Similar to how non sonic fans are quick to label Sonic as being straight up cocky or an asshole who doesn't care about anything).

In contrast, saying Ebony "Enoby" Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way from the infamous Harry Potter fanfic known as "My immortal" is probably the easiest target for being unironicaly "Edgy" (and a mary sue to boot!) She angsts a lot, wears goth clothes, is a vampire but not entirely, is always depressed and listens to goth music and is fully aware of the stereotype of being goth.

Now what makes Ebony Edgy and not just a dark character? (besides being over the top about it?) Well its cause the author herself was basically using Ebony as a self insert for her Harry Potter fanfic, and it was very clear by the quality of said fanfic that she was (at the time anyways) a teen goth going through those same motions. (Granted Dante from DMC might have been a better example, but even that's debatable)

Its the same reason why "Crawling in my skin" and "Wake me up inside" are considered edgy, but actual metal songs are today are usually left alone, because music nowadays is more self aware of that sort of thing. 

Its why people say Shadow is edgy because he "comes off" as being that kind of character, even if his development is different. Mephilis, by default falls under this distinction easier! Seeing how Infinite looks an awful lot like mephilis and seems to be playing a very similar role...its not hard to make the connection of why people Infinite is edgy!

(Heck, people call Ryuko from Kill La Kill Edgy simply because she looks similar to Shadow and has a similar backstory...but her actual character has more time to devolop as that might  not be the initial word you'd think to call her otherwise.)

TL;DR Edgy is more of a cultrual word than a literal one, it lives off of how people use it and evolves just like any other word. Similar to how the word "meme" means something very different than 10 or even 20 years ago! What's expected of the word has changed and thus how people compare it to other words has changed also!

Hopefully that makes more sense lol, tell me if there is something I missed! :D

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I would say the root definition of the word is something along the lines of "defying social norms for shock value". But how it's actually being used is a few steps removed from that.

One step removed is "being an asshole because you think that's cool". Something like, saying offensive things, feeling you're justified because you're "telling it like it is", and thinking you're a rebel free from society's control because of it. This is where "edgy" starts to become an identity and not just descriptive of an action. They see being separate from the mainstream as being superior so they cultivate an appearance, a way of speaking, a way of acting around that. Wear a trenchcoat because it's mysterious and strange. Wear a lot of black because you know the truth and the truth is dark. Buy a katana because knowing the real truth means you might have to stab a dude (or so you like to pretend).

Another step removed, which is about where the current usage lies, is in aping the image of the above. The Sonic series doesn't actually have anything transgressive to say. These are video games for children. But they want that "cool" factor, so they copy the style of the supposedly-transgressive asshole. So they make an "evil Sonic" who's black and red all over (the associations with darkness and blood being fairly straightforward) and has a tragic backstory so you know his feelings are Very Serious. And then they give him a gun and have him curse a bit, because those are things for Adults who are Mature and Cool.

And so, Infinite. Infinite's got the color scheme down, obviously. He's got the pretension down, mocking Sonic for being a "savior", implying that he'll kill him without much effort. And they don't present this as just talk, they show him as powerful enough to kick Sonic's ass, it legitimizes his style. And of course his theme is...I mean, wow. All about how he's so strong and dangerous and dark and how he knows The Truth...it's really not subtle.

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