Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I don't mind Shadow stirring shit up as long as it actually makes sense, and actually contributes to something interesting.

Issue 6 was the perfect way to handle this kind of shit-stirring Shadow, because Shadow had a leg to stand on when he wanted to eliminate Eggman. Eggman has hurt and tortured untold millions, if not billions post Metal Virus, We might not have agreed with Shadow, but we can understand, and see where he's coming from, and where the conflict with Sonic is arising from. 

When Sonic and Shadow fought there, it made logical sense, and provided an interesting narrative point to the plot that it had been lacking at that point. Shadow was darker, crueller, and harsher, but he had a legit reasonable reason for stirring shit up, a reason that directly tied into the plot and added a viewpoint that directly challenged Sonic at his core of a character. A viewpoint that Sonic literally wrestled with during the Metal Virus arc. 

True, I don't think Ian stuck the landing. I'm still of the opinion I think it would've been interesting if Sonic was driven over the edge and nearly infected Eggman either consciously, or unconsciously for everything he did, but the intent was there. Ian also didn't really touch the landing at all for it, given the crappy "I'll stop you no matter what Eggman!" conclusion that Sonic comes to, but #32 is really lacking in general.

But then you get stuff where Shadow's just stirring up shit for no fucking reason, and it leads to horrible shit happening. How he gets infected in the Metal Virus arc is still the core example of poor writing on Shadow's part, where this pragmatic, logical person literally allows himself to be infected and turned one of the most dangerous weapons imaginable for Eggman because "uh muh ego, and uh fuck sonic".

There was no other reasoning for it, and we know for a fact there isn't, because Ian originally had a far better explanation written up that not only made sense from Shadow's viewpoint of logical thinking and doing what he feels is right, but plays into his origins and abilities, and SEGA just stepped in to say "No, Shadow has to be a dick, he has to antagonise everything Sonic says for the sake of it". 

There's a vast difference between stirring up shit for the hell of it with no point whatsoever, and having a valid reason to stir shit up, and call the heroes out on their actions. 

[Shadow Chaos Control]

1 minute ago, The Deleter said:

Don't worry guys at least I don't have it as bad as this guy lmao

 

This synopsis of SA2 is not what I remeber. ROFL. 

Shadow loved Maria, like a sister, but was not in love with her. 

Robotnik turning into Tails, Hahahahahaha!

[The Deleter]

Yeah I get the dislike for the moments like in the zombot arc. A lot of it can feel like it's contrived like that, and that's what you want to stray from when writing a story.

Moments like these aren't comparable at all in my opinion, though. It's one line that has the same effect as a less prickley choice of words in synopsis, but falls on a distinct side of Shadow's portrayed disposition. Is it unlikable? Sure. Is it as offensive as the zombot example? Heeeeell no, and the fact that it's focused on, when again, we have Shadow going out of his way to catch Sonic as he's falling in the previous issue before this one, chastizing him in a less aggressive and more banter-driven manner for it. It's taking the microscope to a few select moments than the entire picture, and that's completely stupid. Why get hung up on one aspect of Shadow that's always been a part of him to the point where we unironically shout "VEGETA SHADOW" from the rooftops every time the previews drop?

[Kuzu]

35 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

That's not my logic. And they were both planning on taking on Starline together until the distraction was used lol, not like Shadow cooperating with Sonic and his friends is unheard of in general

His trauma is what gave him his cynical and distanced disposition (as well as his hate that fueled him yes lol) as compared to his curious/hopeful perspective before the ARK events, that's the only thing it factors into. He's always been a pretty introspective, existential guy tho lmao

 

Yea, and he's willing to put his baggage aside to get things done as we literally saw in SA2. Why is it now suddenly a problem for him to cooperate when he's done so in the past?

Jesus fucking Christ man, I'm not asking for a lot. Is it really too much to ask for a character to behave in a way that's consistent and not forced for the sake of plot convenience? I feel like you're being intentionally obtuse about this. 

[The Deleter]

3 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Yea, and he's willing to put his baggage aside to get things done as we literally saw in SA2. Why is it now suddenly a problem for him to cooperate when he's done so in the past?

Because their end goals are no longer the same? They disagree on what needs to be done right then and there, and he went out of his way to say it. That's not baggage, that's a decision made off of differing perspectives and past contention in the comic.

The decisions he makes may be inherently built off of that baggage, but that doesn't change the fact that those are still his decisions at the end of the day.

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I'm just gonna leave this here.

Shadow

That was an interesting conversation. A bit weird,but neat nonetheless.

 

3 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I'm completely serious. I do not understand his appeal and never will. He's just not an interesting character to me and ok maybe self absorbed was too harsh but I really have never felt like he cares about anything but Maria. 

It always felt more like he only protects Earth because he was told to not because he wants to or cares about the people of the planet. 

I just honestly don't get how Shadow obtained this view of being a true caring hero who has a strong bond with Rouge and Omega.

He was told or rather reprogrammed to activate the protocol to destroy the world in the first place. And when everyone made it clear they'd do whatever it takes to stop it, he honestly didn't care--he just stood aside since his job was done anyway. Not to mention he went out of his way to save Rouge when the Emeralds likely would've been fine anyway. And that's when he thought humanity needed to be punished.

 

Plus, again 06. And the beginning of Heroes for that matter.

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

You know what, I'm not doing this. I refuse to give this more attention than it deserves so I'm gonna talk about something that's actually worth my time.

The 4th issue of Bad Guys drops tonight and we got two more previews for it. 

 

Does Eggman not know that Zavok can take over his machines...unless he planned for that. 

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

You know what, I'm not doing this. I refuse to give this more attention than it deserves so I'm gonna talk about something that's actually worth my time.

The 4th issue of Bad Guys drops tonight and we got two more previews for it. 

 

Does Eggman not know that Zavok can take over his machines...unless he planned for that. 

I think he just intends to stay out of range and blast him from above.

 

What nice meme faces Mimic, congrats!

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, The Deleter said:

Because their end goals are no longer the same? They disagree on what needs to be done right then and there, and he went out of his way to say it. That's not baggage, that's a decision made off of differing perspectives and past contention in the comic.

The decisions he makes may be inherently built off of that baggage, but that doesn't change the fact that those are his decisions.

Then what is the problem with just telling Sonic "I got this, you go handle the mansion"? Why does there need to be a conflict of any kind when there's nothing it adds to the story? Its a conflict for the sake of having a conflict, and that's not interesting in the slightest. 

[The Deleter]

4 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Then what is the problem with just telling Sonic "I got this, you go handle the mansion"? Why does there need to be a conflict of any kind when there's nothing it adds to the story? Its a conflict for the sake of having a conflict, and that's not interesting in the slightest. 

I disagree when that alternative you suggest is no different from the buddy-buddy, no problems, everyone gets along world that is modern Sonic storytelling where every character and their individual thoughts take a backseat to keeping the plot moving forwards. Forces was hella boring because all the characters were blank slates who agreed with each other on what to do. I'm not saying Shadow being brash and blunt like this is a writing masterpiece that adds a million times more intrigue to the story, but compared to just being another bit player who could be replaced with anyone else for the same effect? Sure it's more interesting lmao

Though, again, that isn't exactly demanded of Shadow here. He could have said that and his IDW characterization would still be there to enjoy. I just, again, don't have much of a problem with it being there in the first place.

[Kuzu]

16 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

I disagree when that alternative you suggest is no different from the buddy-buddy, no problems, everyone gets along world that is modern Sonic storytelling where every character and their individual thoughts take a backseat to keeping the plot moving forwards. Forces was hella boring because all the characters were blank slates who agreed with each other on what to do. I'm not saying Shadow being brash and blunt like this is a writing masterpiece that adds a million times more intrigue to the story, but compared to just being another bit player who could be replaced with anyone else for the same effect? Sure it's more interesting lmao

Though, again, that isn't exactly demanded of Shadow here. He could have said that and his IDW characterization would still be there to enjoy. I just, again, don't have much of a problem with it being there in the first place.

What kind of logic is this "It's ok to have shit writing versus boring writing", how about you work to have good writing? Or if you wanted character conflict, then maybe make it feel organic to their personalities and an actual part of the narrative. @Ryannumber1Santa already outlined how Ian was able to accomplish this  way back in Issue #6, so there's already precedent for it in this book. So no, there's literally no reason to force a conflict between characters just for the sake of having a conflict.  If you can't think of a believable reason for two characters to be opposed, then don't derail them just to do it.  That's the easiest way to devalue both characters to the audience. Derailing your characters just for the sake of the story is not how writing works. 

There's nothing organic or interesting about how Shadow has been written; he's a jackass to people he has no particular reason to be towards, and he never learns his fucking lesson and keeps doing the same shit constantly. And no, I'm not going to accept it because you found him "boring" before, that's on you, and you don't fix that by assassinating his character. Just accept that maybe you just don't like the character for who he is and just move on. 

 

And honestly, I'm kind of tired of this. So I'm gonna reserve judgement until the full issue is out and give Evan the benefit of the doubt. But my expectations are pretty low to be honest. 

[The Deleter]

5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

What kind of logic is this "It's ok to have shit writing versus boring writing", how about you work to have good writing? Or if you wanted character conflict, then maybe make it feel organic to their personalities and an actual part of the narrative. @Ryannumber1Santa already outlined how Ian was able to accomplish this  way back in Issue #6, so there's already precedent for it in this book. So no, there's literally no reason to force a conflict between characters just for the sake of having a conflict.  If you can't think of a believable reason for two characters to be opposed, then don't derail them just to do it.  That's the easiest way to devalue both characters to the audience. Derailing your characters just for the sake of the story is not how writing works. 

There's nothing organic or interesting about how Shadow has been written; he's a jackass to people he has no particular reason to be towards, and he never learns his fucking lesson and keeps doing the same shit constantly. And no, I'm not going to accept it because you found him "boring" before, that's on you, and you don't fix that by assassinating his character. Just accept that maybe you just don't like the character for who he is and just move on. 

 

And honestly, I'm kind of tired of this. So I'm gonna reserve judgement until the full issue is out and give Evan the benefit of the doubt. But my expectations are pretty low to be honest. 

I disagree that it's shit writing. I disagree that it's derailing the character. And I especially disagree with it devaluing the character when it actually respects where he came from rather than the (head)canon that the fanbase has assigned his character. Not much else to say outside of that tbh.

You don't have to accept that lmao but I certainly don't want to see the portrayal trampled for such a one-sided witch hunt that always happens in this comic/IDW Twitter.

I did move on years after I knew the buddy buddy version of Shadow was here to stay due to fan demand. Now it's back and I'm perfectly fine with it lmao

And yes, the full issue will have more moments that'll showcase Shadow. I doubt they'll all go over in the exact opposite manner as this line did, but it should be worth reading at least.

[Kuzu]

 

Quote

You don't have to accept that lmao but I certainly don't want to see the portrayal trampled for such a one-sided witch hunt that always happens in this comic/IDW Twitter.

Maybe its because fans of the character don't like arbitrary changes that don't make sense and are only there due to executive mandates. That might have something to do with it. 

But whatever man, you and some other people apparently like this new version of Shadow so they accomplished their goal I guess.  Have a nice night. 

[thumbs13]

I feel like Shadow's appearances are just the writers testing the waters on how much they can actually do with the character, and his role will change with that. 

But as for this issue, I totally expect this to be revealed that Shadow had planned everything out beforehand to justify his behavior.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

1 hour ago, thumbs13 said:

I feel like Shadow's appearances are just the writers testing the waters on how much they can actually do with the character, and his role will change with that. 

But as for this issue, I totally expect this to be revealed that Shadow had planned everything out beforehand to justify his behavior.

He is a Master Planner, I mean he manipulated Robotnik and Rogue into Gerald’s (and Black Doom’s) plans of destruction.  

[Zaysho]

I want to give the IDW team the benefit of the doubt. As fucking unlikable and annoying this rendition of Shadow is, especially after coming off of Ian writing a version of the character in Archie for ten years that ultimately made me a fan of him more than anything Sega produced in the same span of time, I like to believe Evan and Ian know that this version of Shadow doesn't sit right with a lot of people. And I can't think of two writers that know how to direct him better than them within whatever restrictions they have.

There have been bright spots with this characterization, particularly his debut, when he acknowledged his failure during the Metal Virus arc, when he chased after Eggman when Omega was taken and only stopped because Metal kicked his teeth in, even saving the Chao and his reaction to even finding them. It's just that it's buried under a pile of shit right now that needs to get sorted out. I like to think there's a very slow-burn (because lol monthly comics) plan to course correct him without Sega throwing a wrench into their pitches. How long that's gonna take, who knows since this book loves to drag its feet, but hopefully in the end they stick the landing.

Though if they can't... well, I'd rather they just stop writing him at this point. Not like Sega hasn't already done that.

[Razule]

I assume that either Shadow is confronting Starline directly in order to give Rouge and Tails time to free themselves, or he thinks he's so cool that he can beat Starline and then help them. Maybe their way of getting around the mandate is having Shadow secretly have good intentions, but he has to do it in the least likeable way possible?   

[Sega DogTagz]

Shadow is known to only explain his motives after-the-fact from time to time, so I'm willing to give these preview images the benefit of the doubt.

Spoiler

Honestly, not knowing if Starline had planted any other subtle messages into Rouge or Tails, Shadow leaving them tied up would allow him to safely deal with Starline without having to worry about one of his allies stabbing him in the back or bringing harm to themselves. Kind of leaving them on the sidelines for their own protection. I could see Shadow admitting to that after all this is over.

 

 

[Leebo4]

Spoiler

So the final issue of bad guys is out and Starline now looks to throw away his obsession with proving himself to Eggman wants to take over he world for himself but I doubt he can really pull it off, he only really won through sheer luck and hasty last minute decisions than any genius on his parts, he maybe mroe self aware of his flaws than Eggman but he has a long way to go to become a credible rival considering from the previews he was unprepared for shadow simply pushing him off the roller coaster in the next issue of the main book

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Bad Guys #4,,, eh.  Not that great,

But it gave me a theory about Sonic 36 and Shadow

Spoiler

We still don't know who are Starline's mysterious enforces in the tubes.

What we do know is that he planned to kidnap Rouge and Tails and brainwash them to work for him... as his enforcers perhaps?

The thing in the tube might be a new Metal series, or something similar. Maybe Starline needs a person to be a base for those guys.

And while Tails and Rouge are all good, Shadow is 1) Stronger 2) More evil-ish 3) Let's face it, prone to brain manipulation. From Gerald through Black Doom to Shattered Crystal, it happens often to him.

I wonder if something like this was Stanley's plan of redeeming Shadow. If it was Flynn then my theory is needlesly complicated, but Even is more into curveballs.

Still, I'm probably wrong.

Anyway back to issue. I was curious how Flynn with resolve few things and the answers were mostly the easiest way to go about it.

Spoiler

They way Starline escapes his crew is laughably easy. He doesn't even fight Zavok or Mimic. Just beats the skunks.

The way team dissolves is fairy unimpressive. They just kinda do.

And climax is Eggman bombing the place. With most characters already gone from the story, Again, no confrontation between him and Starline, not exactly real fight with Zavok. It needed a bit more flair.

On specific characters
Mimic finally does something worthwhile by calling Eggman to base. It's flawed logic (you're afraid they'll reveal your secrets to Eggman so you want to dispose of them...by calling Eggman), but whatever, it's something. But not much.

Rough and Tumle do what they do best, canon fodder. Not many jokes this time, but I guess we need to focus on rest.

Zavok gets to do disappointingly little, which is sad because what we got isn't bad. The way he mocks Starline or barely gets out of the base (walking with Egg Pawn like two drunken buddies). I just wish he got a bit more impressive finale.

With leaves Starline. I suppose whole point of this series was to see him grow from Eggman fanboy to his own villain. It's just... isn't Eggman fanboy what made him interesting? What new he brings to the table without it?
IDK, time will tell (with is kinda infuriating. "Did you liked the story you just read?" "Apparently I will know later"). Seeing his transformation was decent, but not jaw dropping good.
The plus of IDW OCs is that they can change, yes, but to balance things out their story must go slowly/

So I'm left with very mild opinion on this series. I don't love it or hate. It's just sorta there. Kinda hoping next mini series can be about Sega character.

[LeviTheGreat]

18 hours ago, Ryannumber1Santa said:

  Hide contents

Oh lord, this is blatant character assassination at this point. I genuinely am starting to feel bad for the Shadow fans who've been forced to witness their favourite character reduced to this jackass discount Vegeta expy.

 

Exactly!!!!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Might be a long stretch, but given how Sega does seem to pay attention to what the fans say to a certain degree, if you guys rage enough and tell Sega to get off the writers’ back on Shadow then they might get the message.

Just a thought.

[Kuzu]

18 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Might be a long stretch, but given how Sega does seem to pay attention to what the fans say to a certain degree, if you guys rage enough and tell Sega to get off the writers’ back on Shadow then they might get the message.

Just a thought.

People have been complaining about this long before IDW, if they haven't changed their minds yet, there's no guarantee they're going to any time soon. For better or worse, we're stuck with this version of Shadow for the foreseeable future.

 

Gotta agree that Bad Guys ended on a bit of an anticlimax, but I'm used to that from Flynn at this point. For what its worth, it accomplished what it set out to do, and hey, we have an actual Rogues Gallery now so that's something to look forward to. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

12 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

People have been complaining about this long before IDW, if they haven't changed their minds yet, there's no guarantee they're going to any time soon. For better or worse, we're stuck with this version of Shadow for the foreseeable future.

Brah, you know it takes Sega a number of years before they catch on.

I’m not saying it’ll be a quick change, but if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that perseverance does go a long way. And I should know that after still being around longer than most here.

 

[Kuzu]

That's why I said for the foreseeable future. And even if they do eventually change, the damage will have already been done for it to matter.

Its kind of like what happened to Knuckles, in that nobody takes his character seriously anymore out of meme material.

[The Deleter]

41 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Might be a long stretch, but given how Sega does seem to pay attention to what the fans say to a certain degree, if you guys rage enough and tell Sega to get off the writers’ back on Shadow then they might get the message.

Just a thought.

Before that happens it's far more likely SEGA will lax off on the mandates themselves. They obviously brought them into play to standardize the characterizations of Shadow and whoever else across all branches of media, in a "Paper Mario can't have toads with different body designs" for the sake of series homogeny kind of way. Once they've got this, the TV show, the movies, and whatever else they have planned, they'll have accomplished what they set out to do in the first place in terms of brand consistency, and probably will back off from how strictly they demand portrayals. Look at Sonic X; they didn't have any problem with that series developing him further than what he was originally, even though he had to be exactly as he was in SA2 when he was introduced.

[Kuzu]

9 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Before that happens it's far more likely SEGA will lax off on the mandates themselves. They obviously brought them into play to standardize the characterizations of Shadow and whoever else across all branches of media, in a "Paper Mario can't have toads with different body designs" for the sake of series homogeny kind of way. Once they've got this, the TV show, the movies, and whatever else they have planned, they'll have accomplished what they set out to do in the first place in terms of brand consistency, and probably will back off from how strictly they demand portrayals. Look at Sonic X; they didn't have any problem with that series developing him further than what he was originally, even though he had to be exactly as he was in SA2 when he was introduced.

His first appearance in Sonic X was the SA2 adaptation soooo... 

Outside of that, most of his major appearances were in the third season.