Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[DabigRG]

Recently getting back in the stride, here's stuff from the Fifth Anniversary of Bumblekast (they actually did post/record on it apparently, but forgot)

Spoiler

 

Chao running black market as merchants. Impressionable species gain traits exposed to money and get into shady stuff.   Heavy machinery wizard did it though there is a school. Works like busy box

Best Darkwing villain Taurus Bulbs new episode Meta commentary fanservice while building own almost like they wanted to do Darkwing instead of Ducktales
Wasn't big fan of Steelbeak. Bond villain in superhero show Jaws aspiring to be Blofield sucker for evil twin in Negaduck 

Think Chaotix could appear in Classic miniseries hard to say because Classic is new brand. Parallel dimension. If he could put h as Chaotix design with modern sensibilities  Wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work since modern is far better established  fairly confident guess. That said not expecting anytime soon as cast will be very tight   He hopes they mine Classic stuff for Witchcart, Battlelord, and even honey but not in reverse. Heard Chaotix are the version with classic not counting. Kinda want but kinda like being smaller compared to balloon modern.  Agreed Hooligans should

Part games lore wanted to expand  
There are specifics that got no at time but may have been approved later like reboot weren't to show allowed younger characters but could use Classic remember when even that didn't work so did blend for Sonic and kept Eggman in Shadow. Follow up on Infinite and Phantom Ruby.  Remember that Cream and Omega were off limits once.  Second two hidden palace or wood zone. Focus to move forward

Wouldn't mind freedom fighters come back and is open to a lot of options

Favorite of Babylon rouges. Work best as unit even if jet is star favorite storm because love big right hand palooka trope because just fun  wave is most interesting. Mother hen approach but not much older  both are older than leader and wish that would be interesting to explore. Jet is okay but kinda vanilla rival who won't accept victory unless own talents but not a ton to him after. It would he nice if what came before like why he's leader  girl beyond faster than Sonic good for racing but not as characters. Touched upon what he wants in Metal virus as they  need more pizazz and feel they'd be better as antagonists for extra spice 

Kyle wants f zero back even if gx but hd.  Star fix as games that haven't been as good wonder why MegaMan is dormant  Ian wants sky's of acardia more kid Icarus 

Sonic boom comic other version of characters pitch episode for some but like Chaotix and Rouge.  Comics never went far  boom Vector for example couldn't be pitched since it would've stolen thunder   

Whisper is standoffish like sticks super hermit sneaky with no dialogue  everyone out to get her called 
Sprites from phone game in place if Wisps
Tangle would be exact same character with redesign

Sonic CD timeline no official word on when take place with Sonic 2   not ton of continuity mostly fun adventure episodic 
Enjoyed episode 2 Metal was lackluster aside from controlling metal.  Music wasn't offensive tracks for fun combo moves 

Issue 9 shadows reason for going to angel island was to fight neo metal on own terms because that's the absolute depth of him these days

Kyle like Batman compared to Superman depends but games are definite yes
Like core idea of Batman but books haven't drawn him in in long time n in part because taken way to serious grim and oversexualized want cup of tea wish there was more of brave an f bold.but animated series hit sweet spot of what should be.  

Opinion on Batman 
Joker can be fun archnemesis when play up difference of brooding quite  compassion. Vs colorful sociopathy but played out so much. When there were three jokers as seperate incarnations was too much   so ubitious to point that Harley has grown into own character   but gained Punchline as knockoff even if she has fans and her only options are not Harley or to become Harley again    He gets why he is Charismatic moneymaker but he's the Wolverine of DC that needs break.   

For while Bruce was alterego while dedicated to mission which is interesting but getting away from fun.  Mask of phantasm was premier story because treated as character was the poingant scene of him at his parents graves because he feels being batman means he won't get to be normal again

Archie Sonic time limit on super or ultra never specified super lated as long as needed because no fight ended without ex machina or Sonic giving up pier.    Ultra was shortlived only once aside overhauled story he did.   

Archie editorial vs Sega interference.   House of card was gonna be long and in depth.   Genesis story.  Birthday bash was mandate as birthday introduces scourge.   Darkest Storm was told to wrap things up  30 something plot points.    Monkey Khan and Iron Dominion was joke pitch for springboard to get what he really wanted with Death Egg & King Naugus but Mike liked it a lot and thought it was most interesting when it was meant to be do bad he'd laugh    Universe had to be four issues for trae some shortened have been interesting challenge git most together but some could've been adjusted    regular wasn't as tightly but kept in mind for overarching idea if year.    Silver 25 was mandate instead of what he wanted(pretty sure he  means Endangered Species) so he just did DBZ story with dark Enerjak eventually Tracy have first concept of Cyborg  and got him excited.   World unit was battle with editor Paul direction pacing and utilization of ideas. Even stuff above editor head. Couldn't touch extra until final third. Doesn't should've been let go but overall good experience    Mike tonight how to write comic Paul challenged him in creative ways vin was chill.  Joe is cool and wish had more time. David has delightfully come up with very creative solutions when run into issues.  Riley will some be editor  glad to have worked with all

With Blazes morality, would she sacrifice Sonic for world if she really did know in 06.  Story is mess tht doesn't sink well partly due to poor localization.  ,Not sure where she would call on trigger.   Scene where she speculates on blue hedgehog, the original word  could be blue or naive connotation that she wondering it was Silver but nuance lost.   Maybe she would have stepped in    Then again I  Rush  she was very eager to dance on Eggman and Nega's ashes   When Sonic said it's a bit too far and she fought him to do it anyway.  Hard to say due to her having killer edge but not being heartless

Can Shadow still go super yes as far as he knows and don't see redone it would be off table especially with super silver getting approved.
Shadow has lot of attention in him whenever in comics and can't see them making him lesser than Sonic in any conceivable way

 

 

[SnooPigu]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Recently getting back in the stride, here's stuff from the Fifth Anniversary of Bumblekast (they actually did post/record on it apparently, but forgot)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Chao running black market as merchants. Impressionable species gain traits exposed to money and get into shady stuff.   Heavy machinery wizard did it though there is a school. Works like busy box

Best Darkwing villain Taurus Bulbs new episode Meta commentary fanservice while building own almost like they wanted to do Darkwing instead of Ducktales
Wasn't big fan of Steelbeak. Bond villain in superhero show Jaws aspiring to be Blofield sucker for evil twin in Negaduck 

Think Chaotix could appear in Classic miniseries hard to say because Classic is new brand. Parallel dimension. If he could put h as Chaotix design with modern sensibilities  Wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work since modern is far better established  fairly confident guess. That said not expecting anytime soon as cast will be very tight   He hopes they mine Classic stuff for Witchcart, Battlelord, and even honey but not in reverse. Heard Chaotix are the version with classic not counting. Kinda want but kinda like being smaller compared to balloon modern.  Agreed Hooligans should

Part games lore wanted to expand  
There are specifics that got no at time but may have been approved later like reboot weren't to show allowed younger characters but could use Classic remember when even that didn't work so did blend for Sonic and kept Eggman in Shadow. Follow up on Infinite and Phantom Ruby.  Remember that Cream and Omega were off limits once.  Second two hidden palace or wood zone. Focus to move forward

Wouldn't mind freedom fighters come back and is open to a lot of options

Favorite of Babylon rouges. Work best as unit even if jet is star favorite storm because love big right hand palooka trope because just fun  wave is most interesting. Mother hen approach but not much older  both are older than leader and wish that would be interesting to explore. Jet is okay but kinda vanilla rival who won't accept victory unless own talents but not a ton to him after. It would he nice if what came before like why he's leader  girl beyond faster than Sonic good for racing but not as characters. Touched upon what he wants in Metal virus as they  need more pizazz and feel they'd be better as antagonists for extra spice 

Kyle wants f zero back even if gx but hd.  Star fix as games that haven't been as good wonder why MegaMan is dormant  Ian wants sky's of acardia more kid Icarus 

Sonic boom comic other version of characters pitch episode for some but like Chaotix and Rouge.  Comics never went far  boom Vector for example couldn't be pitched since it would've stolen thunder   

Whisper is standoffish like sticks super hermit sneaky with no dialogue  everyone out to get her called 
Sprites from phone game in place if Wisps
Tangle would be exact same character with redesign

Sonic CD timeline no official word on when take place with Sonic 2   not ton of continuity mostly fun adventure episodic 
Enjoyed episode 2 Metal was lackluster aside from controlling metal.  Music wasn't offensive tracks for fun combo moves 

Issue 9 shadows reason for going to angel island was to fight neo metal on own terms because that's the absolute depth of him these days

Kyle like Batman compared to Superman depends but games are definite yes
Like core idea of Batman but books haven't drawn him in in long time n in part because taken way to serious grim and oversexualized want cup of tea wish there was more of brave an f bold.but animated series hit sweet spot of what should be.  

Opinion on Batman 
Joker can be fun archnemesis when play up difference of brooding quite  compassion. Vs colorful sociopathy but played out so much. When there were three jokers as seperate incarnations was too much   so ubitious to point that Harley has grown into own character   but gained Punchline as knockoff even if she has fans and her only options are not Harley or to become Harley again    He gets why he is Charismatic moneymaker but he's the Wolverine of DC that needs break.   

For while Bruce was alterego while dedicated to mission which is interesting but getting away from fun.  Mask of phantasm was premier story because treated as character was the poingant scene of him at his parents graves because he feels being batman means he won't get to be normal again

Archie Sonic time limit on super or ultra never specified super lated as long as needed because no fight ended without ex machina or Sonic giving up pier.    Ultra was shortlived only once aside overhauled story he did.   

Archie editorial vs Sega interference.   House of card was gonna be long and in depth.   Genesis story.  Birthday bash was mandate as birthday introduces scourge.   Darkest Storm was told to wrap things up  30 something plot points.    Monkey Khan and Iron Dominion was joke pitch for springboard to get what he really wanted with Death Egg & King Naugus but Mike liked it a lot and thought it was most interesting when it was meant to be do bad he'd laugh    Universe had to be four issues for trae some shortened have been interesting challenge git most together but some could've been adjusted    regular wasn't as tightly but kept in mind for overarching idea if year.    Silver 25 was mandate instead of what he wanted(pretty sure he  means Endangered Species) so he just did DBZ story with dark Enerjak eventually Tracy have first concept of Cyborg  and got him excited.   World unit was battle with editor Paul direction pacing and utilization of ideas. Even stuff above editor head. Couldn't touch extra until final third. Doesn't should've been let go but overall good experience    Mike tonight how to write comic Paul challenged him in creative ways vin was chill.  Joe is cool and wish had more time. David has delightfully come up with very creative solutions when run into issues.  Riley will some be editor  glad to have worked with all

With Blazes morality, would she sacrifice Sonic for world if she really did know in 06.  Story is mess tht doesn't sink well partly due to poor localization.  ,Not sure where she would call on trigger.   Scene where she speculates on blue hedgehog, the original word  could be blue or naive connotation that she wondering it was Silver but nuance lost.   Maybe she would have stepped in    Then again I  Rush  she was very eager to dance on Eggman and Nega's ashes   When Sonic said it's a bit too far and she fought him to do it anyway.  Hard to say due to her having killer edge but not being heartless

Can Shadow still go super yes as far as he knows and don't see redone it would be off table especially with super silver getting approved.
Shadow has lot of attention in him whenever in comics and can't see them making him lesser than Sonic in any conceivable way

 

 

 

He just made Shadow look lesser than Sonic in the metal virus arc. Plus lost to two major villains so far, thus making him the weakest version of Shadow so far in any continuity.[/spoiler)

[DabigRG]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:26 PM, SnooPigu said:

  Hide contents

He just made Shadow look lesser than Sonic in the metal virus arc. Plus lost to two major villains so far, thus making him the weakest version of Shadow so far in any continuity.[/spoiler)

Not really.

Shadow would've been capable of burning off the Virus just as well as Sonic hadn't he decided continued fighting and jumped right in between a bunch of them--which is what Sega preferred over him simply using the Ring Inhibitors to protect himself, mind.

 

Also, who did he lose to exactly? 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

An interesting tidbit about Shadow from the new Bumblecast (timestamped):

In short, SEGA have now stated that Shadow's motivation is only to find strong enemies to fight. That's it. He's no longer proactive about stopping threats, he only cares about if those threats can provide him a fight, and if Eggman is defeated, Shadow will deem that it is no longer worth his time/effort dealing with Eggman, as he's weak.

As a result of this, Ian has also stated he intends to take a break writing Shadow because at this point, there's only so much he can rationalise. 

God, you can hear the defeat in Ian's voice. This should really be the ultimate example that Ian doesn't have a problem with Shadow, and he doesn't really want to write him like this, he likes Shadow, and he's just been handed a very, very raw deal by SEGA, and he has to work with what he's got, but even at that, there's only so much he can take. 

It's frustrating too, given this directly contradicts the narrative arc that kicked off the Metal Virus arc, which was Shadow deciding to be proactive and stopping Eggman there and then before he could attempt to cause more havoc if/when he gets his memory back. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Look, I can forgive Ian’s blunders on the account that when he and his team isn’t leashed up like this, they can write a damn good Shadow.

We’ve seen them do that in Archie. It’s just ridiculous that they want Shadow to be a 2-dimensional caricature of Vegeta. Like damn, never thought they’d all but outright say Shadow is essentially Sonic Vegeta.

I wish Ian luck on finding some way to make this better in practice, because Sega isn’t doing him any favors. This is like a prelude of what would happen if Ian wrote for the games—which might be better than other portrayals, but falls short of better stories we’ve seen.

[StaticMania]

16 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

As a result of this, Ian has also stated he intends to take a break writing Shadow because at this point, there's only so much he can rationalise. 

That's entirely fair...

17 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

...he only cares about if those threats can provide him a fight, and if Eggman is defeated, Shadow will deem that it is no longer worth his time/effort dealing with Eggman, as he's weak.

This right here makes no sense...

[Rabbitearsblog]

Seriously, is SEGA ever going to let up on Shadow?

[Red Hot Jack]

My only proposal is, if he has no reason to exist, is either kill him off again or make him a villain with a new reason. Not just... have him disappear.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 minute ago, Jack-al said:

My only proposal is, if he has no reason to exist, is either kill him off again or make him a villain with a new reason. Not just... have him disappear.

That makes sense.  If SEGA really wants to go this route with Shadow, then just turn him into a villain again.  Maybe that's what SEGA really wants...who knows...

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Turning Shadow into a villain once again is just doing the same exact thing of ignoring his character development, and making him ridiculously out of character, that isn't remotely a good alternative, it's just repainting the current shit situation we have with him.

[Red Hot Jack]

The thing with Shadow is he is an evolving character, how do you keep him relevant and developed after 20 years in a simple franchise with light story? What they want is keeping his role of edgy rival , which misses the point of the original character, similar thing happened with Tails, Amy, there is a general idea of how these characters are, they want to keep things static and simple... no one likes that. It does kill development. Of course I don't expect development in this series, its 30 years old and constantly reinventing itself, the comic suffers in particular because it has better writing and is more story heavy, hence it shows Sega limitations, restrictions and contradictions. 

I hope they acknowledge the issues and figure out a new direction.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Turning Shadow into a villain once again is just doing the same exact thing of ignoring his character development, and making him ridiculously out of character, that isn't remotely a good alternative, it's just repainting the current shit situation we have with him.

To be honest, I also don't want Shadow to become a villain again.  I loved his character development throughout the games and even in the Archie Comics and it's a shame that SEGA suddenly wants to wash all that development away to make him a moody character again.  It just seems like SEGA wants to turn Shadow into a villain again based on their mandates and I feel sorry for Ian that he can't write Shadow the way he wanted to because of SEGA's mandates. What will it take to make SEGA change the mandates regarding Shadow's characterization?

[StaticMania]

22 minutes ago, Jack-al said:

It does kill development.

It doesn't...

It's impossible for characters to not develop without limiting them to small roles where they do the same thing over and over.

[MetalSkulkBane]

For now I'm giving up on Shadow as character, I just want to see him doing something cool. I know it's shallow, but I won't get more anyway.

All his story needs is create new antagonist that Shadow will have to battle. If you want to give Shadow personality,  don't focus on morals but on "what it means to be strong" or something like this.

Simple idea: most dangerous game homage. Someone captures several Sonic characters and wants to hunt them like un-mobian animals. Shadow is one of them and wants to beat him. Let him have bigger role in victory.

Done. Not the best story ever, but best story we can get in this climate.

[SBR2]

I'm just going to be a jerk here and say maybe they shouldn't have brought Shadow back in the first place. Even putting aside my own feelings for the character and what I feel he represents they clearly have no idea what to do with him and maybe it'd have been better for him to be a single game character like Tikal.

[MetalSkulkBane]

1 minute ago, SBR2 said:

I'm just going to be a jerk here and say maybe they shouldn't have brought Shadow back in the first place. Even putting aside my own feelings for the character and what I feel he represents they clearly have no idea what to do with him and maybe it'd have been better for him to be a single game character like Tikal.

He was good in in Sonic Battle and Sonic 06 of all games. And few smaller tittles. And you know, Archie Sonic after Flynn took over.

Shadow promised Maria to be protect people of Earth. Earth is in danger every Tuesday. It's EXTREMELY easy to find him stuff to do.

[Rabbitearsblog]

I'm honestly surprised that Ian is still around this series, despite the many mandates he was forced to go through all of these years.  First, he had to deal with the mandates with Archie Comics and now IDW.  It makes me wish that SEGA had no control whatsoever over the comics.

[SBR2]

9 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I'm honestly surprised that Ian is still around this series, despite the many mandates he was forced to go through all of these years.  First, he had to deal with the mandates with Archie Comics and now IDW.  It makes me wish that SEGA had no control whatsoever over the comics.

Honestly most of the Mandates are just common sense things the fandom has blown entirely out of proportion. 

[Kuzu]

44 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I'm just going to be a jerk here and say maybe they shouldn't have brought Shadow back in the first place. Even putting aside my own feelings for the character and what I feel he represents they clearly have no idea what to do with him and maybe it'd have been better for him to be a single game character like Tikal.

You may as well say this about literally every character that's not named Sonic. The cast have lacked direction for a long time now, it's only apparent with Shadow because his whole character was built on having a full story arc. 

 

 

 

[Rabbitearsblog]

3 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

You may as well say this about literally every character that's not named Sonic. The cast have lacked direction for a long time now, it's only apparent with Shadow because his whole character was built on having a full story arc. 

 

 

 

I agree that Shadow's character is a bit more problematic because he's probably the first Sonic character (well, maybe next to Knuckles) to have a fully fleshed out backstory  and that probably didn't bode well for SEGA if they have to maintain the relevancy of these characters for many years.  I mean, there are many ways to keep Shadow relevant, but taking away his backstory is not one of them.

[Kuzu]

Every answer I get about this situation is just a copout in my opinion; "Killing him off" "Turning him into a villain" "Turning him one-dimensional" etc etc. 

You know how you write Shadow better, you take the parts that people like and just enhance that. People overcomplicate these things. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Jack-al said:

The thing with Shadow is he is an evolving character, how do you keep him relevant and developed after 20 years in a simple franchise with light story?
 

By making new stories and challenging Shadow’s morals and strengths as a character—it’s what every work of fiction does with a dynamic character.

It’s not hard, it’s not impossible, it just that Sega keep blocking any opportunities to let that occur and come up with dogshit excuses over why that’s the case because they think that’s a solution to whatever shallow problem they or someone else had.

The same shit with why they came up with Two Worlds and the Classic/Modern divide, honestly.

[Kuzu]

A huge hole in this whole argument is, and it's probably the simplest answer to this; Sega simply doesn't consider Shadow that important of a character anymore. A well written, and fully realized Shadow is a character who arguably has more relevance to the series than Sonic himself, and we can't have that after all. So Shadow's stuck playing second fiddle as "edgy the hedgy" because Sonic is the only one who's allowed to be the hero anymore,

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

A well written, and fully realized Shadow is a character who arguably has more relevance to the series than Sonic himself,

In what sense?

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

In what sense?

With the lone exception of SA2, most of Shadow's later appearances give him more precedence in the plot over Sonic himself. It was in fact a subtle joke at the time that Sonic himself was a secondary character in his own series as Shadow was the one who was actually doing plot relevant stuff, while Sonic was just fighting Eggman as usual without even being aware of the bigger plot at hand. Sonic Battle, Sonic Rivals, and Sonic 06 are games that specifically come to mind here. 

 

Kind of hard to balance two characters with damn near the same exact moveset and all.