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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread


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7 minutes ago, Pengi said:

In Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, they revealed that Paper Mario is a separate world from regular Mario.

They once said that Yoshi's universe is separate from the Mushroom Kingdom: https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/11/20/yoshis-woolly-worlds-burning-questions.aspx

 

Donkey Kong also takes place in a seperate universe from Mario's as of Mario and Rabbids confirming things.

 

1 hour ago, Tomboyish Mermaid said:

It is a very complicated concept. I mean, Mario also doesn't have two Mushroom Kingdoms, where he and his friends always jump from one to the other, it is just one. Why can't Sonic just also have one consistent world? 

Mario operates on the "no consistency rule". The mushroom kingdom changes shape and size according to the game it takes place in. You could have the "Mushroom World" from Mario Bros 3, coexisting in the same universe as the Mario Odyssey world. Or you could have the mushroom kingdom change shape between the New Super Mario Bros games.

Frankly, Mario doesn't give a damn about what is consistent except for the most generic details. So people really don't give a damn about the many, MANY, MANY, narrative plot holes and inconsistencies between games. The most we ever got in the mainline games was people getting creeped out by realistic human beings in Odyssey.

 

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6 hours ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Frankly all they need to do to make travel between the two worlds not look arbitrary is just make use of the warp rings again, like Archie and the movie. While thay doesn't solve inconsistencies like Angel Island and such, it's still a quick solution that does make sense. 

If they're gonna make travel between them so seamless, make use of the whole warp ring concept and show seamless interdimensional travel between the worlds. 

They do. Pretty sure Ian's outright said they use rings, too. Just in the games, Sega specifically asks for that to not be shown, presumably out of a feeling that it'd complicate things.

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39 minutes ago, Pengi said:

In Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, they revealed that Paper Mario is a separate world from regular Mario.

They once said that Yoshi's universe is separate from the Mushroom Kingdom: https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/11/20/yoshis-woolly-worlds-burning-questions.aspx

 

I don't think either of those things are exactly equivalent to the Two Worlds scenario or even the Classic/Modern split.

Paper Jam's parallel universe scenario was likely just a plot device invented to make the crossover make sense. I highly doubt it's ever going to be brought up again. Color Splash, the very next Paper Mario game released post-Paper Jam, included characters and elements from games like Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker and even Mario Kart, so it's not like any restrictions have been introduced in the way that there were for Sonic's Classic/Modern split.

As for Yoshi, it's kinda hard to argue he inhabits a literal separate universe given how the games featuring Baby Mario are very blatantly presented as prequels.

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21 minutes ago, Domino said:

Paper Jam's parallel universe scenario was likely just a plot device invented to make the crossover make sense. I highly doubt it's ever going to be brought up again.

So it'll be brought up as often as Sonic games bring up the fact that there's two worlds.

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2 hours ago, Pengi said:

In Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, they revealed that Paper Mario is a separate world from regular Mario.

They once said that Yoshi's universe is separate from the Mushroom Kingdom: https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/11/20/yoshis-woolly-worlds-burning-questions.aspx

 

Which definitely comes off as a retcon, considering:

image.png.d42f90e37e7c2aca7d58fbb6531da69a.png

Since "you" were in Super Mario Bros. Not since "your alternate non-paper counterpart" was in Super Mario Bros.

At the time the old Paper Mario games were made, "Mario" and "Paper Mario" were considered the same entity - simply presented in a different style.

Paper Jam's premise has the same problems as Sonic's "two worlds" - both contradict previously established things about the series and both ultimately make less sense than just having a single unified world.

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Miyamoto said he considers the Mario characters to be like actors who just perform whatever they're given to suit the game best. For something that's always been loose, that's okay, but it seems like lately Sonic Team wants to have it both ways. Changing up everything based on what they wanna do at the time while also stubbornly trying to keep all the more complex lore that they set up by constantly acknowledging it, it doesn't work.

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9 minutes ago, Natie said:

Miyamoto said he considers the Mario characters to be like actors who just perform whatever they're given to suit the game best. For something that's always been loose, that's okay, but it seems like lately Sonic Team wants to have it both ways. Changing up everything based on what they wanna do at the time while also stubbornly trying to keep all the more complex lore that they set up by constantly acknowledging it, it doesn't work.

While that's fair, Miyamoto isn't the only one in charge of making Mario games anymore. Miyamoto's preferred "zero continuity" outlook on Mario isn't always what other directors stick to. Koizumi tends to put a lot more story and direct callbacks to other games, such as Pauline in Odyssey directly referencing the events of Donkey Kong and

Spoiler

Bowser reliving memories of all the times Mario defeated him - showing clips from various other games - when he's captured near the end.

All this is to say, Mario has continuity sometimes. It depends a lot on who's in charge of the game and how much they care about Miyamoto's preferred ideal for the series.

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At least Mario has consistent core. He will always live in Mushroom Kingdom, we know Toads live in there, we know Bowser lives is a neighbor in some lava scary castle, Koopa and Goomba live there too.

Sonic lives... well he travels. Sometimes there are humans around, sometimes mobians, sometimes only little animals.

1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

At the time the old Paper Mario games were made, "Mario" and "Paper Mario" were considered the same entity - simply presented in a different style.

Paper Jam's premise has the same problems as Sonic's "two worlds" - both contradict previously established things about the series and both ultimately make less sense than just having a single unified world.

Retcons always will leave some errors. That's kinda nature of rewriting the past.

But there is "ups, in Spider-Man #43 we casually  mentioned his parents had a bakery, but now in #99 we introduce them as dentists"

And then there is "So Joker was faking insanity all this time. Also Alfred was Batman's imaginary friend."

Some holes are easier to forgive than the other, you know?

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For me it's complicated mostly because they are in some sort of "inbetweening" where it's there and not there at the same time. If they simply choose one concept and added the stuff to go from one world to another, it wouldn't make a universe really complicated or convoluted (I mean "places are divided into two main big places and characters have a mean to go from one to another" isn't exactly quantum physics).

For the moment it's even a non-subject as they don't seems to want to aknowledge anything for their world, so it's mostly zero-world. And that's why I hope for the human world to appear in IDW. First to get humans/GUN/etc, and then for something to at least be akwnoledged in an actual narrative media. (And I still hope for a salty Sonic asking why they didn't help with Eggman invasion and a GUN official saying that they were protecting their own world, because I kinda miss a bit the "amoral" side of GUN, they felt a bit too much "good two shoes" in ArchieSonic Post-SGW).

But if they decide to use one-world, I wouldn't care that much either. In both case they'll be slight retcon and explainaiton to do so eh, it's the same either way.

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7 hours ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Donkey Kong also takes place in a seperate universe from Mario's as of Mario and Rabbids confirming things.

I’ve not played that one yet. How was it handled? 

I thought that game was set in an “imaginary” universe, like Smash Bros?

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6 minutes ago, Pengi said:

I’ve not played that one yet. How was it handled? 

I thought that game was set in an “imaginary” universe, like Smash Bros?

Just a dimensional warp due to a glitch. The game then says we're in another dimension. 

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1 hour ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Just a dimensional warp due to a glitch. The game then says we're in another dimension. 

I thought they meant a different dimension from the normal human inventor lady in the prologue, not that Donkey Kong and Mario occupy separate dimensions.

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I gotta be honest while I am against the two worlds I do feel the people place way too much importance on Sonic's continuity. Yeah we had the Death Egg Saga and Shadow's story arc but for the most part Sonic's adventures are largely episodic. I make this statement a lot but even Unleashed with it's epic scale can be summed up with "Eggman's doing something. Go stop him".

I'm not saying Sonic stories can't have continuity or can't be deep just that I personally don't think there's a problem with the episodic approach.

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45 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I thought they meant a different dimension from the normal human inventor lady in the prologue, not that Donkey Kong and Mario occupy separate dimensions.

The glitch happened in the Mario universe. [timestamped ]

 

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Wow, Ian's tease sure sent us on a bunch of tangents these last few pages.

So I guess we'll just have to wait and see what he means, eh? How long do you think that'll take? The Encyclospeedia's release this November? Some later issue of the IDW comic? The next game?

...Maybe it'd be better to not hold our breaths on this.

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I'd bet on the Encyclospeedia being first to give us an answer. IDW takes... tiiimeee.... and we are nowhere near the end of this new arc. 

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Its probably the Encyclospeedia since he's the one writing it (with SEGA supervision), and its looking to be the Sonic series, "Hyrule historia" that SEGA will probably treat as gospel. 

Good to just get it all written down on a hard format for once instead of scattered in interviews. 

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Since it's been a while, how do you suppose "Toothpaste Snively" is going to affect things when he comes for Belle's...whatever it is he's after?

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2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Since it's been a while, how do you suppose "Toothpaste Snively" is going to affect things when he comes for Belle's...whatever it is he's after?

Toothpaste Snively??.... Oh.... hahahahaha. 

To be honest, I really have no idea what they were even going for with that last arc or what Starline is even doing at the moment. I'm braindead on the matter. 

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1 hour ago, charmsb said:

Toothpaste Snively??.... Oh.... hahahahaha. 

To be honest, I really have no idea what they were even going for with that last arc or what Starline is even doing at the moment. I'm braindead on the matter. 

Yeah last arc did feel a bit… messy/less tight rounding up at the end. 
 

Starline is, presumably, still doing something weird with those two chambers and/or something weird with Tails’ DNA or whatever else he can get from that fur sample he swiped. I do enjoy Starline as a villain so can’t wait to see what he’s been up to. Until then we have to go through the Zeti arc which I don’t think is a bad thing, but after this I think I’d like to see a little less of the zeti for a while and more of the other villains.
 

I wonder what Rough and Tumble are up to now.

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Maybe Starline wants to use whatever material Belle is made out of to create his own superpowered furry army.

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5 hours ago, charmsb said:

Toothpaste Snively??.... Oh.... hahahahaha. 

To be honest, I really have no idea what they were even going for with that last arc or what Starline is even doing at the moment. I'm braindead on the matter. 

Yeah...

Are you referring to Bad Guys or Chao Racing?

3 hours ago, caitash said:

Yeah last arc did feel a bit… messy/less tight rounding up at the end. 
 

That's probably cause it just dropped most of what the arc was originally about to fit him, Sonic & Tails, and ultimately Shadow in.

3 hours ago, caitash said:

Starline is, presumably, still doing something weird with those two chambers and/or something weird with Tails’ DNA or whatever else he can get from that fur sample he swiped. I do enjoy Starline as a villain so can’t wait to see what he’s been up to.

He's mainly trying to get his two enforcers (and likely his repurposed colleagues) operational before making a major moves on his own.

3 hours ago, caitash said:

Until then we have to go through the Zeti arc which I don’t think is a bad thing, but after this I think I’d like to see a little less of the zeti for a while and more of the other villains.
 

At this point, yeah, we could use something different and more productive. 

Maybe it's time for Eggman to make a proper comeback as well.

3 hours ago, caitash said:

I wonder what Rough and Tumble are up to now.

I am curious to know what they're gonna do at this point. They weren't too keen on working with other villains after the way Eggman, Starline, and Zavok treated them and they aren't really big plan types either. 

2 hours ago, Razule said:

Maybe Starline wants to use whatever material Belle is made out of to create his own superpowered furry army.

Huh. I suppose that makes sense, given she's just a glorified tinker toy.

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Kip the Capybara is the very first “classic”-only character created since the classic-modern split was cemented in 2017. In the same story, Nite the Owl appears, and has the exact same appearance as his modern counterpart for some reason. Some of the extras in the comic do look like Shogakugan characters, but the only western character to be referenced directly was Arms from AOSTH/MBM. Is there some kind of rights issue, or are they saving these references for later?

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Can someone please explain how Sonic's world being

 

a peaceful place with no conflict aside from threats related to Eggman

is good world building?

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1 hour ago, Slashy said:

Can someone please explain how Sonic's world being

  Hide contents

a peaceful place with no conflict aside from threats related to Eggman

is good worldbuilding

?

Spoiler

This is based on the game world, and we've never seen any conflict caused by something not related to Eggman. Aside from the Black Arms, but that was the human world. Or the Battle Birds, but that's classic canon. And we've been trapped on the animal planet, which has had a lot less building, so.. not much to work with right now.

 

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