Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[dudebro1993]

20 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Since a certain bog has been back, I guess I can segueway off of it for an important question: how do we feel about the comic's treatment of the game characters throughout these three years of IDW?

 

I'm gonna be honest, the majority of characters are boring or completely awful (Shadow). Sonic is a failed comedian. Tails is a bit better than in Forces but nothing interesting. Amy is now the dullest character ever, at least as a stalker she was interesting. Knuckles is MIA. Rouge is good but always attached to Shadow same with Omega. Cream is fine I guess. I never cared about the Chaotix so no opinion on them. 

[StaticMania]

When you think about it, aren't all quippy heroes failed comedians?

Or when you put even more thought into it, aren't all quippy heroes the most successful comedians because they almost always get the desired reaction from the villains?

[dudebro1993]

13 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

When you think about it, aren't all quippy heroes failed comedians?

Or when you put even more thought into it, aren't all quippy heroes the most successful comedians because they almost always get the desired reaction from the villains?

You have a point there. I'm just saying from my perspective Sonic isn't funny at all, I can't remember the last time I smiled at one of Sonic's jokes. 

[StaticMania]

16 minutes ago, dudebro1993 said:

You have a point there. I'm just saying from my perspective Sonic isn't funny at all, I can't remember the last time I smiled at one of Sonic's jokes. 

Probably never, since he never made jokes before

[dudebro1993]

34 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Probably never, since he never made jokes before

He's been making jokes since Sonic Unleashed. Awful jokes, but still jokes. 

[SkullPirateMike]

He's been making jokes as long as he's had a voice. "Look, it's a giant talking egg!" "Talk about low-budget flights!" etc.

[StaticMania]

One liners are very funny

[SkullPirateMike]

On 9/5/2021 at 1:12 PM, MetalSkulkBane said:

I don't care if Shadow looses from time to time. But if he MUST be a smug asshole self-assured of his perfectness now, let him live up to this hype, even a little. There is nothing worse than jerk who keeps saying "I don't need help" and then keeps messing up.

Sometimes I wonder if some people played a different Sonic series where this isn't who he's always been since his very first appearance lol. I just think back on Sonic Battle, where's he all "I don't need your help" and then passes out from his injury and Rouge has to carry him back to her house. Or Sonic 06 where he needs Rouge and Omega to rescue him from the future because he was too impulsive to go through the portal, leaving him trapped.

I've seen how quickly this thread gets derailed any time Shadow shows up, so this is the last I'll say about it, but I think Shadow's done a lot more than you say he has in IDW. He did help defeat Neo Metal after he messed up, he evacuated a lot of people before he became a zombot, and I haven't read it yet, but isn't he the one who rescues Clutch's Chao? It just always seems like it's never enough. People won't be happy until Shadow is the star of the book, and every plotline ends as soon as he arrives. It's weird. I guess that's what he gets for being such a popular character.

[CertifiedNobody]

2 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Sometimes I wonder if some people played a different Sonic series where this isn't who he's always been since his very first appearance lol. I just think back on Sonic Battle, where's he all "I don't need your help" and then passes out from his injury and Rouge has to carry him back to her house. Or Sonic 06 where he needs Rouge and Omega to rescue him from the future because he was too impulsive to go through the portal, leaving him trapped.

I've seen how quickly this thread gets derailed any time Shadow shows up, so this is the last I'll say about it, but I think Shadow's done a lot more than you say he has in IDW. He did help defeat Neo Metal after he messed up, he evacuated a lot of people before he became a zombot, and I haven't read it yet, but isn't he the one who rescues Clutch's Chao? It just always seems like it's never enough. People won't be happy until Shadow is the star of the book, and every plotline ends as soon as he arrives. It's weird. I guess that's what he gets for being such a popular character.

I think people want to see more of Shadow's soft, heroic side that's always been there underneath the surface, since archie leaned into it more than the games have. The writing in IDW has kinda emphasized his grouchy, introverted aspects and overconfidence, which isn't always as appealing, even if it has it's how he's portrayed in some games, especially the ones from the Pontaff era.

People's issues are more so how he acts and less what he does.

[SkullPirateMike]

2 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I think people want to see more of Shadow's soft, heroic side that's always been there underneath the surface, since archie leaned into it more than the games have. The writing in IDW has kinda emphasized his grouchy, introverted aspects and overconfidence, which isn't always as appealing, even if it has it's how he's portrayed in some games, especially the ones from the Pontaff era.

Ah, is that what it is? If he was portrayed differently in Archie and people are wanting him to be like that, I get it. We didn't have Archie here, I've never really read it, so I have no idea how Shadow was in it. I'm just seeing IDW Shadow be basically identical to game Shadow and wondering why people are upset. But for people who were reading Archie, they probably saw him in the comics way more than they did in the games, so it makes sense that'd end up being their main perception of him.

[SBR2]

3 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Sometimes I wonder if some people played a different Sonic series where this isn't who he's always been since his very first appearance lol. I just think back on Sonic Battle, where's he all "I don't need your help" and then passes out from his injury and Rouge has to carry him back to her house. Or Sonic 06 where he needs Rouge and Omega to rescue him from the future because he was too impulsive to go through the portal, leaving him trapped.

I've seen how quickly this thread gets derailed any time Shadow shows up, so this is the last I'll say about it, but I think Shadow's done a lot more than you say he has in IDW. He did help defeat Neo Metal after he messed up, he evacuated a lot of people before he became a zombot, and I haven't read it yet, but isn't he the one who rescues Clutch's Chao? It just always seems like it's never enough. People won't be happy until Shadow is the star of the book, and every plotline ends as soon as he arrives. It's weird. I guess that's what he gets for being such a popular character.

FUCKING THANK YOU!

...Sorry it's just so rare to see someone who thinks the same as me in this.

Like for real when has Shadow ever not been the way people are upset he is in anything that isn't the Archie comic? 

[StaticMania]

21 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Like for real when has Shadow ever not been the way people are upset he is in anything that isn't the Archie comic? 

In every game before Free Riders...

[SBR2]

9 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

In every game before Free Riders...

Not...really. He's kinda always been a grump ass loner.

[StaticMania]

12 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Not...really. He's kinda always been a grump ass loner.

Yes, but he was a grumpy loner who barely emotes...

Which is more interesting obviously.

[IWriteAlright]

6 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Sometimes I wonder if some people played a different Sonic series where this isn't who he's always been since his very first appearance lol. I just think back on Sonic Battle, where's he all "I don't need your help" and then passes out from his injury and Rouge has to carry him back to her house. Or Sonic 06 where he needs Rouge and Omega to rescue him from the future because he was too impulsive to go through the portal, leaving him trapped.

I've seen how quickly this thread gets derailed any time Shadow shows up, so this is the last I'll say about it, but I think Shadow's done a lot more than you say he has in IDW. He did help defeat Neo Metal after he messed up, he evacuated a lot of people before he became a zombot, and I haven't read it yet, but isn't he the one who rescues Clutch's Chao? It just always seems like it's never enough. People won't be happy until Shadow is the star of the book, and every plotline ends as soon as he arrives. It's weird. I guess that's what he gets for being such a popular character.

People enjoy shadow in archie pre and post reboot. I think the issue people with shadow isn't that they want him to be the star. More so, they don't really know who he is. His actions have no clear motivations outside of something very immediate and don't overall make sense. Its beyond impulsive, its erratic. And no one of his " helping " has any meaning without properly understanding why he's doing those things.

I think another big issue as juvenile as it may be  , but this is a series for children, shadow hasn't looked good the entire book and if you aren't actually useful people might not want you around. What moments that might be triumphant are taken away from him.  You and some other's might want some in depth shadow arc about failure, but most people don't care about that they just don't like how shadow has looked and want him to look cool.  Before you get into anything deep you actually need to sell the audience on the character. And both writers due to their familiarity have taken shortcuts , unfortunately this shadow is very unfamiliar and it might benefit everyone to start from ground 0.

I think more people will be more willing to indulge in who this version of shadow is, once he gets a story where we can get a firm grasp of why he does what he does as well as storie(s) that let him look cool and succeed.

On a final note, I think shadow is such a hot topic ( pun intended ) is because he's touched so many. That's a good thing! It means he was an effective character.  But, because the rest of the book is generally good and in some ways a bit boring  there isn't much to talk about. I myself have not been a fan of the last couple arcs but its so fine, that there isn't much to talk about. I guess I don't like the plot point about sonic finishing off his opponents popping up but that's it really.  Its very strange to have a sonic thing just be regularly competent. Even Archie would be subject to editors having bad ideas, but outside of shadow its just... a decent comic book.

Now if we can move past shadow for one moment. I actually would like to talk about the eventual movie tie book. The book is about tails while that is interesting it makes me think the film itself tails wont really get that much of an introduction. Which is fine , tails a bit of simplistic character but it makes me think it might mostly be about sonic and knuckles ( again pun intended ). I wonder if they introduce new echdinda lore, and I wonder because it will be completely isolate from kenny p could it be used actually? I believe the films may have a greater effect on the franchise than any external material before it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Ah, is that what it is? If he was portrayed differently in Archie and people are wanting him to be like that, I get it. We didn't have Archie here, I've never really read it, so I have no idea how Shadow was in it. I'm just seeing IDW Shadow be basically identical to game Shadow and wondering why people are upset. But for people who were reading Archie, they probably saw him in the comics way more than they did in the games, so it makes sense that'd end up being their main perception of him.

They saw a Shadow that they felt was a better continuation of who he said he would be after ShTH and 06, one following the wish of Maria and Gerald Robotnik to protect the world and give them something to be happy for.

And sure, he’s still a grump in Archie as well, but his actions there are more well meaning and he’s not above asking for or giving help to others.

Basically, he’s more chilled out and less obnoxious. He still makes some assholish decisions, but they actually carry weight to them as to understand why he takes them even if it’s not the ideal solution.

For instance, during the Shadow Fall series, when a Black Arms super soldier lands on Angel Island and puts the Master Emerald at risk in the middle of the Dark Gaia crisis, he takes the action of taking the Master Emerald away to a safer location—which is against Knuckles’s wishes as the guardian of said Emerald and Island despite the threat posed to them. As a result, they start beating each other’s brains out across the entire island over how to best protect the Master Emerald.

Basically, Shadow more often than not has a point in Archie, and even if he’s not always in the right, he’s not doing it out of any sense of pride. 

Or to sum it up more succinctly, Archie!Shadow generally puts the whole arrogant, “I’m the Ultimate Lifeform” shtick behind him and settles on becoming a more pragmatic protector of Mobius instead. Not that he’ll take kindly to someone mocking him as the Ultimate Lifeform, but he knows there’s more important things to him in Archie than being the Ultimate Lifeform. And that’s why he’s a lot more liked there than he usually is anywhere else.

In IDW, that part has been ditched in favor of a more arrogant Shadow who would rather fight a zombot swarm out of pride than doing the sensible thing and avoiding the fight so as not to get infected. He’ll listen to others in Archie, not so much in IDW.

[SkullPirateMike]

9 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

In IDW, that part has been ditched in favor of a more arrogant Shadow who would rather fight a zombot swarm out of pride than doing the sensible thing and avoiding the fight so as not to get infected. He’ll listen to others in Archie, not so much in IDW.

Here's the thing, though... He had listened to Sonic earlier, and in his mind at that moment, listening to Sonic was what caused the current situation. So it made perfect sense that he wouldn't, in that moment. He regretted it later, but Shadow's actions in the zombot arc were all in service of Sonic's character arc through the whole book up til now - questioning whether he was right to give Eggman a second chance. That's still the overarching plot, it's even brought up again in the newest preview pages. It's Sonic's book, not Shadow's, and Shadow's part in it is there to serve Sonic's. He's the counterpoint to Sonic's actions, and the nagging doubt in Sonic's mind. And it's been done pretty well, imo.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

13 minutes ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Here's the thing, though... He had listened to Sonic earlier, and in his mind at that moment, listening to Sonic was what caused the current situation. So it made perfect sense that he wouldn't, in that moment. He regretted it later, but Shadow's actions in the zombot arc were all in service of Sonic's character arc through the whole book up til now - questioning whether he was right to give Eggman a second chance. That's still the overarching plot, it's even brought up again in the newest preview pages. It's Sonic's book, not Shadow's, and Shadow's part in it is there to serve Sonic's. He's the counterpoint to Sonic's actions, and the nagging doubt in Sonic's mind. And it's been done pretty well, imo.

I mean, he still had a point regarding Eggman...but then again, so did Sonic. And the Blue Blur had a laundry list of examples to make his case.

I don’t think anyone is faulting him on that part compared to him not listening to Sonic when the Zombots started overpowering him—Sonic tells him to run to hold off the Metal Virus infection, and he decides to stay and fight because he’s not a coward. If this was Archie, regardless of him regretting letting Eggman go, he would’ve heeded the bigger problem of being infected and listened to Sonic regardless.

Of course, if you still wanted to keep the above scenario of him staying to fight the Zombots, then they would’ve been better off making a note on him thinking he might be immune (and being shocked that he isn’t) rather than because he didn’t want to look weak and cowardly. (Or by letting Ian keep the original scenario he had in mind)
 

Even so, in Archie he’s not as prone to holding such resentment as he did during cases like the Metal Virus. It’s that bit of his character that I’ve noticed makes him more divisive in this setting. Doesn’t help that Sega haven’t been consistent.

It’s just a matter of people being jarred by two different takes on the game setting.

[Red Hot Jack]

15 hours ago, dudebro1993 said:

I'm gonna be honest, the majority of characters are boring or completely awful (Shadow). Sonic is a failed comedian. Tails is a bit better than in Forces but nothing interesting. Amy is now the dullest character ever, at least as a stalker she was interesting. Knuckles is MIA. Rouge is good but always attached to Shadow same with Omega. Cream is fine I guess. I never cared about the Chaotix so no opinion on them. 

Are we reading the same comic book? I'm not getting that impression to be honest. I respect the opinion obviously but I disagree. In fact the character writing is possibly the best part of the book.

Sonic doesn't look like a comedian unlike the games or Boom. He looks like a compassionate hero who gives too many second chances to his villains. And treats his friends respectfully.

Shadow is very flawed and of course is derailed by mandates, a bit of a different character I think but still recognisable overall.

Tails is not a coward, he is optimistic but cautious and smart. 

Amy is still a fangirl, probably the best written character here, because her passion is moderated by other qualities, she is indepedent, plus a real responsible heroine who is tired and stressed and needs a break.

Silver is a goofy optimistic overpowered hero, who saved Sonic's butt plenty of times.

Eggman is an egomaniac, a childish mastermind who doesn't build his plan carefully.

Vector is a heart of gold hero. And so are Charmy and Espio, really loyal to each other.

Rouge is queen, sassy, flirty, apparently a dumb beauty but actually smart.  A bit of a babysitter to Shadow and Omega.

Knuckles is MIA I agree, but still stubborn,  easily angry, and loyal to Angel Island. 

Omega retains his wrecking personality, Blaze is still perfectly written too.

Cream is a real heroine, very brave and kind. I actually don't like her outside of IDW eh. Gemerl is a bit of a dick I have to say.

Orbot and Cubot are great as well. 

Zavok is another gem here, he is real brutal, smart, tactical, and powerful. I also liked Zeena.

Metal Sonic of course is a silent killer machine and a minion with no personality,  I can't say much but Neo was a great villain IMO.

And this is just how they handle the games cast. Comic originals is another batch of wonderful characters.

[SkullPirateMike]

5 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Of course, if you still wanted to keep the above scenario of him staying to fight the Zombots, then they would’ve been better off making a note on him thinking he might be immune (and being shocked that he isn’t) rather than because he didn’t want to look weak and cowardly. (Or by letting Ian keep the original scenario he had in mind)

Wait, that is what happened, isn't it? I remember him saying he can't be infected by it because he's the Ultimate Lifeform, then being shocked when he realised he was infected? Him refusing to run wasn't exactly because he didn't want to look weak, but because he misunderstood what Sonic had meant by it, he clarified that during the epilogue.

[Kuzu]

Shadow should be at a point where he is more focused on fulfilling Maria's wish of protecting the planet, as per the ending of his game and Sonic 06 and this was how he was written in pre and post reboot Archie. He could still be arrogant and condescending, but he was about his business of protecting the planet.

His problem in IDW is that they've all but ignored that, so now he's just arrogant and condescending with an extremely vague motivation of fighting for the sake of fighting. He's divisive now because it feels like his character has regressed and has no real direction, and its ridiculous because the same author had established a solid motivation for him in the previous book.

 

Obviously this is because Sega have other ideas on how the character should be interpreted, but as I said, they have no real idea or direction on who the character is supposed to be beyond an occasional angry rival for Sonic. This is why Flynn is frustrated  because he understands the type of character Shadow should be, but Sega just doesn't care.

 

I'm guessing Sega doesn't want Shadow to be too wrapped up in his backstory and to stand on his own as a character, but his backstory is such an integral part of his character and without it, he's honestly just an angrier Sonic.

[SkullPirateMike]

5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Shadow should be at a point where he is more focused on fulfilling Maria's wish of protecting the planet, as per the ending of his game and Sonic 06 and this was how he was written in pre and post reboot Archie. He could still be arrogant and condescending, but he was about his business of protecting the planet.

His problem in IDW is that they've all but ignored that, so now he's just arrogant and condescending with an extremely vague motivation of fighting for the sake of fighting. He's divisive now because it feels like his character has regressed and has no real direction, and its ridiculous because the same author had established a solid motivation for him in the previous book.

I guess I interpreted him wanting to make Eggman pay for his crimes, trying to evacuate people from the city to save them from the virus and trying to stop Starline and rescuing Clutch's Chao as part of him protecting the planet. I honestly don't understand the distinction. Is it because he didn't make a grand speech about how he's doing it for Maria or something? Like, he's out there doing heroic deeds, and we know his motivation for doing those is his promise to Maria... do we need to be reminded every few issues or something? I'm geniunely baffled by the discourse. Baffled!

This is why, to me, it comes across that people just want Shadow to be an invincible, infallible god who shows up and saves the day every few issues. Because most of the things people are asking for are there, just not enough, apparently. It sounds like the Shadow people want would make it a very boring book.

[charmsb]

I'm thinking an "IDW Shadow" topic is in order at this point lol.

[SkyHorizon]

4 minutes ago, SkullPirateMike said:

I guess I interpreted him wanting to make Eggman pay for his crimes, trying to evacuate people from the city to save them from the virus and trying to stop Starline and rescuing Clutch's Chao as part of him protecting the planet. I honestly don't understand the distinction. Is it because he didn't make a grand speech about how he's doing it for Maria or something? Like, he's out there doing heroic deeds, and we know his motivation for doing those is his promise to Maria... do we need to be reminded every few issues or something? I'm geniunely baffled by the discourse. Baffled!

This is why, to me, it comes across that people just want Shadow to be an invincible, infallible god who shows up and saves the day every few issues. Because most of the things people are asking for are there, just not enough, apparently. It sounds like the Shadow people want would make it a very boring book.

Uhm... no? 

 

From issue 36 (just an example)

Sonic: You and I are the only ones with the speed to catch up with the avalanche (saving thousands of people)

Shadow: Not interested.

 

Lol, heroic deeds my ass... And you're, I quote, "baffled" that people think Shadow has some writing problem? Seriously?

[charmsb]

We're talking about a comic hedgehog we can discuss it with civility, jeez. No condescending statements or remarks are needed.