Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[SBR2]

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Does anyone think we'll see Infinite in IDW? It's clear Sega has plans for him at the moment, otherwise they'd just let Flynn use him, but does that seem like a permanent situation or could we see him get the treatment Flynn gave Zavok and get a better version of Infinite?

Ian was recently asked if Infinite was dead on Bumblekast and just responded "*sigh* I don't know man" so I doubt it. 

[DabigRG]

I apologize for not following up following up on my Tierlist just yet--actually have been working on the explanations bit by bit but time constraints have forced me to only do like one character a pop and  stop for hours or chunks of day at a time. Not that they're particularly long--I wanted to focus my thoughts into a single paragraph or two to summarize the characters performance and their effects. 

But since Edgy inevitably started up again, there are two things I can say about:

1. I actually came across an unfinished rant about him(and for some reason Tangle) from a year ago. Not much to say other than it was funny to find it when I did.

2. Still generally the least enjoyable aspect of this comic on both fronts and Chao Racing did nothing to help.

[Red Hot Jack]

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I believe the Infinite theme was used in the Sonic Rangers demo according to focus tester leaks, which is interesting at the very least

Meh, if the leaks are true, it's still a placeholder music, I think, and even then I have my doubts.

You know what? I have no idea about Infinite... as you guys said according to Ian, he's off-limits, Sega didn't want him used at all in the comic, he's either dead or ??? No idea, but usually they let the "dead" characters appear only in flashback, this could be why Black Doom was mandated out of Shadow Fall saga in Archie but still managed to appear in flashback, Ian said he wanted Infinite in a flashback in issue 1 for the Forces panel since season 1 is right after Forces... and SEGA refused to have him at all.

Then there is Tomoya Ohtani (composer) who teased some time ago, "I wonder if we will see Infinite again".

He's either dead or they have plans for him in the games.

I'm sure he's not even forgotten, he appears in various bits of merch, so there might be plans after all. But this is just speculation.

[CertifiedNobody]

2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Ian was recently asked if Infinite was dead on Bumblekast and just responded "*sigh* I don't know man" so I doubt it. 

I don't mean at the moment, but maybe in a few years or something.

[thumbs13]

5 hours ago, Razule said:

It could mean they have plans to bring him back, or they consider him "dead" like Eggman Nega.

Nega didn't die at the end of Rivals 2, he just got trapped in the Ifrit dimension iirc.

 

[Kaotic Kanine]

To chime in on IDW's treatment of the game cast, I overall find it to be satisfactory. 

Though, admittedly, I don't have much to say about the characters that aren't Amy and Cream  But I can note that Blaze is way better than in both Archie continuities. As much as I find her overrated, I don't deny Blaze's badassery, yet throughout Archie she was frequently knocked out cold and held captive: literally spending an entire issue in one arc inside a cage to that end. In IDW though, Blaze debuted kicking serious ass alongside Sonic and then being the MVP in the Battle for Angel Island. Omega is also a lot more in-character here than in Archie while maintaining some of the better "eccentric-ness" from Archie (such as wanting a mouth to bite at things). And the Babylon Rogues are much more in-line with how they were in the games than Archie, being merely arrogant jerks with some noble qualities (compare that with their being complicit in the obliteration of an entire castle to get at the Babylon Garden in Archie).

With regards to Amy... Well, okay, my feelings on Amy in IDW had always been more contentious than satisfied. She was perfectly fine in her debut, showcasing her passion, badassery, and admiration for Sonic. But even in that issue, Amy was highly insistent on having Sonic re-join the Resistance (which, let's be real, is only slightly better than her badgering him to marry her) and a lot of her dialogue and mannerisms came off more like Sally than the actual Amy. Though that would've been fine if the former bits were at the forefront for the rest of Amy's appearances in IDW, but instead the comic doubled down on the Sally-esque traits: having Amy be focused on plans and tactics when she had always been more of a "act first, think later" hero (not unlike Sonic himself), spend considerable time cataloguing resources while everyone else were doing things that were much more in-character for them, and then becoming one of those falling to doubt and despair as the Metal Virus worsened under her leadership. The latter being an exceptionally sore point for me since one of Amy's core characteristics is her intense energy and optimism; she's not someone who gets overwhelmed and become doubtful or despaired easily at all, yet IDW would go on to have Amy ask Cream how she manages to stay upbeat and hopeful! That would be like Sonic asking Tails how he keeps his cool and be free-spirited, it's so mind-boggling. I've been dissatisfied with Evan's stories thus far, but I will forever praise her for writing Amy as the go-getting, passionate, and optimistic girl who doesn't miss a chance to flirt with Sonic (but still being a responsible and powerful heroine). From Chao Racing to present, IDW!Amy is a lot fucking better and much more accurate to her character than before, and without having her be the butt of jokes/overshadowed by Sally like Reboot!Archie did. But I'm still going to question why Amy wasn't like that from the very beginning. 

Cream's treatment, on the other hand, was highly satisfactory from beginning to end. Those familiar with me ought to know I hated how Cream was treated in Archie, more specifically in the Reboot continuity, for reasons too long to write out. So I was not expecting much from IDW, especially since Cream was made to miss out on the "Neo Metal Sonic Saga". But Cream's treatment in her overdue debut, and since then, was a very welcomed 180 from how it was in Archie. Like, sure, Cream still didn't get to fight in her debut (though 100% justified by the Zombots being fatal to touch) but her accomplishments from past games and merits as a character were acknowledged, with Sonic the Hedgehog himself calling Cream a brave hero with great potential. And Cream not only went on to be one of the characters with greater focus in the Metal Virus Saga, providing a lot of compelling emotional scenes that made her lots of fans, but Cream got to showcase those heroic merits of hers in the fight against Zeena in the climactic battle to end the Metal Virus, as well as standing up to Zavok and participating in the battle against Eggman shortly after. After all those years of getting cucked hard by Sally in Archie, IDW finally allowed Cream to flourish as a character: to show off her action credentials and emotional depth, which got people to care about her. And that is what I wanted out of Cream in Archie, dear folks who questioned my outrage towards that books treatment of her. And for delivering on that, IDW has my favor.

Although, "Chao Races and Badnik Bases" did screw up big by pretty much advertising Cream as a major player, only to be no more significant than she was in Archie (seriously, how do you have a Chao-centric story and have Cream be a minor character? May as well have Espio as a supporting character in a ninja-centric story...). And let's just say, after that arc, I'm really hoping Gemerl doesn't tag along in the next story to feature Cream  But I'll still give IDW more merit over Archie for actually doing Cream justice overall. 

[Leebo4]

6 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

To chime in on IDW's treatment of the game cast, I overall find it to be satisfactory. 

Though, admittedly, I don't have much to say about the characters that aren't Amy and Cream  But I can note that Blaze is way better than in both Archie continuities. As much as I find her overrated, I don't deny Blaze's badassery, yet throughout Archie she was frequently knocked out cold and held captive: literally spending an entire issue in one arc inside a cage to that end. In IDW though, Blaze debuted kicking serious ass alongside Sonic and then being the MVP in the Battle for Angel Island. Omega is also a lot more in-character here than in Archie while maintaining some of the better "eccentric-ness" from Archie (such as wanting a mouth to bite at things). And the Babylon Rogues are much more in-line with how they were in the games than Archie, being merely arrogant jerks with some noble qualities (compare that with their being complicit in the obliteration of an entire castle to get at the Babylon Garden in Archie).

With regards to Amy... Well, okay, my feelings on Amy in IDW had always been more contentious than satisfied. She was perfectly fine in her debut, showcasing her passion, badassery, and admiration for Sonic. But even in that issue, Amy was highly insistent on having Sonic re-join the Resistance (which, let's be real, is only slightly better than her badgering him to marry her) and a lot of her dialogue and mannerisms came off more like Sally than the actual Amy. Though that would've been fine if the former bits were at the forefront for the rest of Amy's appearances in IDW, but instead the comic doubled down on the Sally-esque traits: having Amy be focused on plans and tactics when she had always been more of a "act first, think later" hero (not unlike Sonic himself), spend considerable time cataloguing resources while everyone else were doing things that were much more in-character for them, and then becoming one of those falling to doubt and despair as the Metal Virus worsened under her leadership. The latter being an exceptionally sore point for me since one of Amy's core characteristics is her intense energy and optimism; she's not someone who gets overwhelmed and become doubtful or despaired easily at all, yet IDW would go on to have Amy ask Cream how she manages to stay upbeat and hopeful! That would be like Sonic asking Tails how he keeps his cool and be free-spirited, it's so mind-boggling. I've been dissatisfied with Evan's stories thus far, but I will forever praise her for writing Amy as the go-getting, passionate, and optimistic girl who doesn't miss a chance to flirt with Sonic (but still being a responsible and powerful heroine). From Chao Racing to present, IDW!Amy is a lot fucking better and much more accurate to her character than before, and without having her be the butt of jokes/overshadowed by Sally like Reboot!Archie did. But I'm still going to question why Amy wasn't like that from the very beginning. 

Cream's treatment, on the other hand, was highly satisfactory from beginning to end. Those familiar with me ought to know I hated how Cream was treated in Archie, more specifically in the Reboot continuity, for reasons too long to write out. So I was not expecting much from IDW, especially since Cream was made to miss out on the "Neo Metal Sonic Saga". But Cream's treatment in her overdue debut, and since then, was a very welcomed 180 from how it was in Archie. Like, sure, Cream still didn't get to fight in her debut (though 100% justified by the Zombots being fatal to touch) but her accomplishments from past games and merits as a character were acknowledged, with Sonic the Hedgehog himself calling Cream a brave hero with great potential. And Cream not only went on to be one of the characters with greater focus in the Metal Virus Saga, providing a lot of compelling emotional scenes that made her lots of fans, but Cream got to showcase those heroic merits of hers in the fight against Zeena in the climactic battle to end the Metal Virus, as well as standing up to Zavok and participating in the battle against Eggman shortly after. After all those years of getting cucked hard by Sally in Archie, IDW finally allowed Cream to flourish as a character: to show off her action credentials and emotional depth, which got people to care about her. And that is what I wanted out of Cream in Archie, dear folks who questioned my outrage towards that books treatment of her. And for delivering on that, IDW has my favor.

Although, "Chao Races and Badnik Bases" did screw up big by pretty much advertising Cream as a major player, only to be no more significant than she was in Archie (seriously, how do you have a Chao-centric story and have Cream be a minor character? May as well have Espio as a supporting character in a ninja-centric story...). And let's just say, after that arc, I'm really hoping Gemerl doesn't tag along in the next story to feature Cream  But I'll still give IDW more merit over Archie for actually doing Cream justice overall. 

He would need to tag along with cream since she is a young girl who would probably only get hurt without proper help if she goes on one of the adventures

[SkyHorizon]

6 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

To chime in on IDW's treatment of the game cast, I overall find it to be satisfactory. 

Though, admittedly, I don't have much to say about the characters that aren't Amy and Cream  But I can note that Blaze is way better than in both Archie continuities. As much as I find her overrated, I don't deny Blaze's badassery, yet throughout Archie she was frequently knocked out cold and held captive: literally spending an entire issue in one arc inside a cage to that end. In IDW though, Blaze debuted kicking serious ass alongside Sonic and then being the MVP in the Battle for Angel Island. Omega is also a lot more in-character here than in Archie while maintaining some of the better "eccentric-ness" from Archie (such as wanting a mouth to bite at things). And the Babylon Rogues are much more in-line with how they were in the games than Archie, being merely arrogant jerks with some noble qualities (compare that with their being complicit in the obliteration of an entire castle to get at the Babylon Garden in Archie).

With regards to Amy... Well, okay, my feelings on Amy in IDW had always been more contentious than satisfied. She was perfectly fine in her debut, showcasing her passion, badassery, and admiration for Sonic. But even in that issue, Amy was highly insistent on having Sonic re-join the Resistance (which, let's be real, is only slightly better than her badgering him to marry her) and a lot of her dialogue and mannerisms came off more like Sally than the actual Amy. Though that would've been fine if the former bits were at the forefront for the rest of Amy's appearances in IDW, but instead the comic doubled down on the Sally-esque traits: having Amy be focused on plans and tactics when she had always been more of a "act first, think later" hero (not unlike Sonic himself), spend considerable time cataloguing resources while everyone else were doing things that were much more in-character for them, and then becoming one of those falling to doubt and despair as the Metal Virus worsened under her leadership. The latter being an exceptionally sore point for me since one of Amy's core characteristics is her intense energy and optimism; she's not someone who gets overwhelmed and become doubtful or despaired easily at all, yet IDW would go on to have Amy ask Cream how she manages to stay upbeat and hopeful! That would be like Sonic asking Tails how he keeps his cool and be free-spirited, it's so mind-boggling. I've been dissatisfied with Evan's stories thus far, but I will forever praise her for writing Amy as the go-getting, passionate, and optimistic girl who doesn't miss a chance to flirt with Sonic (but still being a responsible and powerful heroine). From Chao Racing to present, IDW!Amy is a lot fucking better and much more accurate to her character than before, and without having her be the butt of jokes/overshadowed by Sally like Reboot!Archie did. But I'm still going to question why Amy wasn't like that from the very beginning. 

Cream's treatment, on the other hand, was highly satisfactory from beginning to end. Those familiar with me ought to know I hated how Cream was treated in Archie, more specifically in the Reboot continuity, for reasons too long to write out. So I was not expecting much from IDW, especially since Cream was made to miss out on the "Neo Metal Sonic Saga". But Cream's treatment in her overdue debut, and since then, was a very welcomed 180 from how it was in Archie. Like, sure, Cream still didn't get to fight in her debut (though 100% justified by the Zombots being fatal to touch) but her accomplishments from past games and merits as a character were acknowledged, with Sonic the Hedgehog himself calling Cream a brave hero with great potential. And Cream not only went on to be one of the characters with greater focus in the Metal Virus Saga, providing a lot of compelling emotional scenes that made her lots of fans, but Cream got to showcase those heroic merits of hers in the fight against Zeena in the climactic battle to end the Metal Virus, as well as standing up to Zavok and participating in the battle against Eggman shortly after. After all those years of getting cucked hard by Sally in Archie, IDW finally allowed Cream to flourish as a character: to show off her action credentials and emotional depth, which got people to care about her. And that is what I wanted out of Cream in Archie, dear folks who questioned my outrage towards that books treatment of her. And for delivering on that, IDW has my favor.

Although, "Chao Races and Badnik Bases" did screw up big by pretty much advertising Cream as a major player, only to be no more significant than she was in Archie (seriously, how do you have a Chao-centric story and have Cream be a minor character? May as well have Espio as a supporting character in a ninja-centric story...). And let's just say, after that arc, I'm really hoping Gemerl doesn't tag along in the next story to feature Cream  But I'll still give IDW more merit over Archie for actually doing Cream justice overall. 

Mixed feelings on that. On Omega, I disagree, I think he was more fun in Archie, but I'm totally fine with IDW, I guess it's just that he had a few more "funny" moments.

For Cream, though, I totally share your opinion: I didn't like that much how she was portrayed in Archie, while in IDW she was perfect.

[Kaotic Kanine]

4 hours ago, Leebo4 said:

He would need to tag along with cream since she is a young girl who would probably only get hurt without proper help if she goes on one of the adventures

Except Cream had gone on many adventures before Gemerl even existed and canonically never got hurt in them. In fact, if we take her gameplay as fully canon, Cream is the one who brought all the hurt to Eggman lol But regardless, Cream already has a protector in the form of Cheese, who manages to do that job without stealing page-time and contributions from Cream (such as, say, delivering the finishing blow on Zeena or fighting Clutch's badniks). And, of course, it's highly doubtful we'll get any true "solo adventures" for any of the characters in IDW. And in those cases, I'd rather Cream go on adventures with Amy, Tails, or Whisper without Gemerl forcing himself in and taking up whatever dynamic Cream could have with those characters. Which is exactly what he did in "Chao Races and Badnik Bases": that story was the first time in a long time Cream went on an adventure with Amy again, and the very first time she tagged along with Rouge at all. Yet we didn't get much of Cream's dynamic with either one because of Gemerl butting in and taking up much of Cream's attention and/or speaking on her behalf. 

4 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

Mixed feelings on that. On Omega, I disagree, I think he was more fun in Archie, but I'm totally fine with IDW, I guess it's just that he had a few more "funny" moments.

For Cream, though, I totally share your opinion: I didn't like that much how she was portrayed in Archie, while in IDW she was perfect.

Admittedly, I have to re-examine Archie!Omega to really compare and contrast the two. But I do recall Omega being a trigger-happy loon who loves destruction for the sake of destruction in Archie, to the point of falling in love with Blaze due to her pyrokinesis. And sure, that's humorous lol But I place greater value on characters being in-character for adaptations, and fact is Omega is not some emotional character who craves destruction for the fun of it in the games. He's always been a logical character who displays very little emotion beyond absolute hatred for anything involving Eggman due to resentment from being disused in favor of "worthless consumer models", and reserves his immense firepower for those things and anything else that gets in his way (such as Team Sonic when they encountered each other in Lost Jungle). Sure, it's not much, and I certainly advocate for adding more to characters if it benefits them, such as my desire for Cream to have more "fight" in her so she would stop coming across as useless in adventures (but at least that has basis in the games and even Sonic X). But they practically changed Omega into a completely different character in Archie, and I can't approve that. IDW, on the other hand, strikes a good middle-ground in being accurate to Omega's character but having more personality that provides humor ("Is this a robot? ... Was it created by Eggman? ... Destroy all Eggman robots! Nature and origin are irrelevant!"). 

Glad you agree on Cream, though. Not gonna lie, I still don't understand why so many people were (and still are) quick to defend Reboot Archie's treatment of Cream when it's objectively terrible. Like, imagine if Blaze was made to join the main cast (rather than being a major but rarely appearing character) but for three entire years was denied from doing anything substantial as a main character because another main character (who always got more than their fair share of spotlight) denied them for stupid reasons, despite Blaze's vocal desire to help out in fights and go on missions. And the few times she actually gets to take any action or do something useful, it's undercut by the story focusing on the other characters (such as how Cream lead the rescue of the Freedom Fighters from that ambush but her effort went unacknowledged by the other characters in favor of focusing on and cheering up a sobbing Sally). I don't think I need to tell you that Blaze fans would be furious and most would agree that's a terrible use of a character. But because that shit was being done to Cream, it's A-OK  

[Kuzu]

I honestly don't mind Gemerl and I think Flynn is building off what was established in Sonic X and Sonic Battle as the basis of their dynamic in IDW.

But its a dynamic not present in the games at all, so I get why its somewhat jarring for them to take this direction now.

[Kazhnuz]

I don't see much change in Cream treatment in IDW and Archie Post-Reboot, as TBH in both the idea is "people that have responsibilities toward Cream don't want to see her hurt", and that I think that in post reboot we would have got a moment where the role of "protector/protected" are reversed, as it's a pretty common tropes. So for me, it was kinda the same idea, except that we got to it sooner in IDW. That's why after that we are back in the roles where Gemerl protect her (it's even stronger in a way in IDW, as it's Gemerl entire purpose), and that Shadow was shown a disproving the idea of getting Cream in such a place in CR&BB. So for me the only "real" diff is that she got a story about her at one moment, which didn't happens yet in Archie Post-Reboot.

For me, the character that got the most changes without being a known character affected by SEGA (unlike Gemerl, Omega and Shadow) is Rouge. And I'm happy that she got a more "playful" personality than in Archie, she have a lot of gold moments.

[SkyHorizon]

14 minutes ago, Kazhnuz said:

I don't see much change in Cream treatment in IDW and Archie Post-Reboot, as TBH in both the idea is "people that have responsibilities toward Cream don't want to see her hurt", and that I think that in post reboot we would have got a moment where the role of "protector/protected" are reversed, as it's a pretty common tropes. So for me, it was kinda the same idea, except that we got to it sooner in IDW. That's why after that we are back in the roles where Gemerl protect her (it's even stronger in a way in IDW, as it's Gemerl entire purpose), and that Shadow was shown a disproving the idea of getting Cream in such a place in CR&BB.

 

Cream in Archie-Reboot was mostly sidelined just because. Cream in IDW participated in the organization of the Resistance, cheered Amy, convinced Whisper not to shoot Eggman, ... even without fighting she had a lot of good moments (she even fought Zeena).

 

1 hour ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Admittedly, I have to re-examine Archie!Omega to really compare and contrast the two. But I do recall Omega being a trigger-happy loon who loves destruction for the sake of destruction in Archie, to the point of falling in love with Blaze due to her pyrokinesis. And sure, that's humorous lol But I place greater value on characters being in-character for adaptations, and fact is Omega is not some emotional character who craves destruction for the fun of it in the games. He's always been a logical character who displays very little emotion beyond absolute hatred for anything involving Eggman due to resentment from being disused in favor of "worthless consumer models", and reserves his immense firepower for those things and anything else that gets in his way (such as Team Sonic when they encountered each other in Lost Jungle). Sure, it's not much, and I certainly advocate for adding more to characters if it benefits them, such as my desire for Cream to have more "fight" in her so she would stop coming across as useless in adventures (but at least that has basis in the games and even Sonic X). But they practically changed Omega into a completely different character in Archie, and I can't approve that. IDW, on the other hand, strikes a good middle-ground in being accurate to Omega's character but having more personality that provides humor ("Is this a robot? ... Was it created by Eggman? ... Destroy all Eggman robots! Nature and origin are irrelevant!"). 

 

You may have a point, but Games-Omega IS a trigger-happy character. remember his famous sentence: "crush-maim-destroy"?

[StaticMania]

"In-Character" for E-123 Omega would be being a trigger happy loon for Eggman only and being a regular logical robot everywhere else.

And that just doesn't sound very interesting, it also doesn't sound interesting to focus on being "in-character" when you're writing an adaptation where it's you doing you're own take on what's already there.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Read Issue 43, and to be honest, Zeti Hunt has to be one of the lamest arcs yet, in my opinion. This was being hyped up as some intense arc where Zavok stops playing games and starts using psychological warfare on Sonic. The 'hunt' lasted one issue, and the 'psychological' aspect was literally the Zeti saying they'd attack one place, then they attack another. Whoop.

I'll leave the comments on 'Starline usurping another plot in the last issue' because that's probably just a me problem, but in general, this has just felt so...nothing. The Zeti were already wearing thin in IDW and this arc has done absolutely nothing to endear me to them any further - apart from Zavok pulling some smart moves on Sonic (him smashing the spindash right into a wall was pretty rad). Apart from that, the arc has just been another standard Sonic VS Deadly Six fight, and Sonic dominated them for most of the fight. It's kind of pathetic just how badly they were being solo bodied until Zavok stepped in. I honestly just wish this arc had been Sonic & Tails having to go and try to hunt the Zeti down piece by piece - giving us small set-pieces of what they attempt to do solo, and the like. 

The one shining aspect of the issue was easily Tails. I really liked the stuff with him and Sonic working together, fighting using Sonic's skills, and sneakily resorting back to his tricks again. The fist-bump at the end was a nice touch too. Other than that, bleh.

[dudebro1993]

57 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Read Issue 43, and to be honest, Zeti Hunt has to be one of the lamest arcs yet, in my opinion. This was being hyped up as some intense arc where Zavok stops playing games and starts using psychological warfare on Sonic. The 'hunt' lasted one issue, and the 'psychological' aspect was literally the Zeti saying they'd attack one place, then they attack another. Whoop.

I'll leave the comments on 'Starline usurping another plot in the last issue' because that's probably just a me problem, but in general, this has just felt so...nothing. The Zeti were already wearing thin in IDW and this arc has done absolutely nothing to endear me to them any further - apart from Zavok pulling some smart moves on Sonic (him smashing the spindash right into a wall was pretty rad). Apart from that, the arc has just been another standard Sonic VS Deadly Six fight, and Sonic dominated them for most of the fight. It's kind of pathetic just how badly they were being solo bodied until Zavok stepped in. I honestly just wish this arc had been Sonic & Tails having to go and try to hunt the Zeti down piece by piece - giving us small set-pieces of what they attempt to do solo, and the like. 

The one shining aspect of the issue was easily Tails. I really liked the stuff with him and Sonic working together, fighting using Sonic's skills, and sneakily resorting back to his tricks again. The fist-bump at the end was a nice touch too. Other than that, bleh.

I agree. I also don't like the Deadly Six; they never pose a threat. Like you said, they nearly were defeated by just Sonic! Like I said in a previous post: they've become the Sonic version of Team Rocket: to be used as cannon fodder. 

Hopefully the new characters coming will be a bigger threat to Sonic.

[Kaotic Kanine]

7 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

I don't see much change in Cream treatment in IDW and Archie Post-Reboot, as TBH in both the idea is "people that have responsibilities toward Cream don't want to see her hurt", and that I think that in post reboot we would have got a moment where the role of "protector/protected" are reversed, as it's a pretty common tropes. So for me, it was kinda the same idea, except that we got to it sooner in IDW. That's why after that we are back in the roles where Gemerl protect her (it's even stronger in a way in IDW, as it's Gemerl entire purpose), and that Shadow was shown a disproving the idea of getting Cream in such a place in CR&BB. So for me the only "real" diff is that she got a story about her at one moment, which didn't happens yet in Archie Post-Reboot.

That's... A very good point. I had actually been feeling that Gemerl was coming off like the 'new Sally' in IDW (with his "It's too dangerous" line from Issue 26 being the exact thing Sally told Cream one too many times), and this perfectly explains why  I guess Cream is just not allowed to not have a single character needlessly bodyguarding her, ordering her not to get involved, and stealing spotlight/contributions from her (characters that aren't Cheese, I should emphasize). 

Of course, IDW is at least a little better since Cream did get her own story (as you and SkyHorizon acknowledged) and got compelling focus during MVS, whereas she her only "role" in Shattered World was to be Sky Patrol's waitress and Sally's mentee (even though such a role belongs to Amy). And another improvement is that Gemerl is actually proven wrong for his behavior regarding Cream and acknowledged in Issue 27 that he did need Cream's help against Zeena, and again in Issue 36 when Cream saved his ass from a bunch of Badniks. But Sally was never shown to be in the wrong or argued against with regards Cream, and didn't even acknowledge Cream saving everyone's ass after she lead them into an ambush. So, though Gemerl still really needs to butt out of Cream's affairs, at least he learns not to underestimate Cream (if that's the correct term) while Sally never did. 

8 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

You may have a point, but Games-Omega IS a trigger-happy character. remember his famous sentence: "crush-maim-destroy"?

It's actually "Annihilation, Charge, FIRE!"  But I get your point. I actually just re-looked up Omega's lines in Heroes and he was indeed quite eager to destroy things in general. I guess my real issue with Archie!Omega was that he was more "emotional" than the actual character is? Like, aside from the intense hatred and rage for Eggman and his other robots, Omega expresses no emotion and is apathetic to pretty much everything aside from Shadow and Rouge. He certainly isn't the type of character to ever develop romantic feelings for someone (even if that crush is a joke) and I don't think Omega would even be "swayed" by Cream's cuteness and tears to hold back on harming her, among other things. The only exceptions in the games are when Omega reassures Rouge about Shadow possibly being real, instead of an android, in Heroes and expressing regret at being the one to seal Shadow in the future of 06, but tellingly those moments were only with the two characters Omega remotely considers friends. Otherwise, Omega is as cold and unfeeling as you'd expect from a literal killing machine. Which can still provide some humor, such as Omega's snarking at the Egg Pawns being destroyed by fruit in Lost Jungle.

[StaticMania]

30 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Which can still provide some humor, such as Omega's snarking at the Egg Pawns being destroyed by fruit in Lost Jungle.

Heroes is probably the only time it'll ever provide humor in the games

Which is a point for Sonic Heroes

But not so much a point for his character if they ever decide to use him again

[Kazhnuz]

Mmh, in TSR also IIRC Omega was kinda humoristic, no ?

8 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

So, though Gemerl still really needs to butt out of Cream's affairs, at least he learns not to underestimate Cream (if that's the correct term) while Sally never did. 

I would say that it's not that they're underestimating her. It's normal to be afraid that a child get hurt, even if we believe in them. And TBH even Sonic do that, in the official Sonic Channel story. It's a common reaction, and part of Cream's character. And in a way, the Metal Virus stories give Gemerl, and kinda show WHY they are afraid. The very (and certainly only xD) thing that frightened Gemerl happened. Cream got hurt. Badly :')

I would say that after what happened, if Gemerl started to protect less Cream, it would be kinda strange xD So in a way, for me it's simply kinda how Cream is characterized, and how the character work.

[IWriteAlright]

If i'm being honest, I can barely remember a lot of the characters from tsr. Besides really bad stuff or specific bits people looked up to discuss character changes.

@Ryannumber1gamer
It isn't just you. Starline hasn't earned this, and if he doesn't do something spectacular, this is going to feel really limp. Starline should have been built up slower over a longer period of time.

[Wraith]

There's no time in four issues for Sonic and Tails to hunt down six characters

I think the only way for this arc to be interesting would have been to take advantage of the situation they created with Zavok's mindgame. Have Tangle and Whisper catch the six without the help of Tails's device, since we've never really seen them have to deal with an enemy that strong before. Sonic's beaten the six enough times that there's nothing interesting about him engaging with them again, and, wouldn't you know it, he beats them pretty soundly once he and Tails get there. Tangle and Whisper can't even take shots from behind the door without getting floored(???).

Right now I'm not really sure what the point of this arc was besides throwing Tails fans a bone and solving the "problem" of the Deadly Six still being on-world. Maybe it'll make sense later.

 

[DabigRG]

As Professor Calamitous syndrome continues to vex me in various areas, I guess I ought to comment on a few things 

On 9/7/2021 at 4:04 PM, StaticMania said:

Sonic games need more cutscenes

Perhaps. I think the cutscene lengths are about the same, but the actual story content and sometimes context has been generally lacking.

Lost World is the biggest offender of this issue for obvious reasons, while Forces got around it somewhat thanks to the Star Fox filter overlays as well as the premise being artificially big enough.

On 9/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, SkullPirateMike said:

 

It sounds like Shadow got a lot of development in Archie, and it sounds like that development was good! I'm not knocking it! People want it back for a reason! But that's an alt-universe Shadow, and IDW Shadow hasn't had that development. It sounds like a big part of Shadow's development in Archie was tied to time he spent with Cream. Has he ever even spoken to Cream in the games? Even in his own game Amy's the one conversing with Cream in the one stage she appears (as a collectible item) in.

Uh, no?

I could be forgetting little bits, but Shadow and Cream still have yet to really interact outside of like two covers.

On 9/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, SkullPirateMike said:

Like I said, I don't know Archie Shadow. I know Shadow from the games and Sonic X, and IDW Shadow is him. The only time I've seen Shadow be portrayed inconsistently from this was in Free Riders, where he was more like a Team Rocket member (which was a strange choice, since the Babylon Rogues already kinda fill that role).

 

From what I recall seeing of Free Riders, Jet was a bit more laid-back and respectable of the competition in that game. So maybe they felt the need to compensate by having the conflict come from elsewhere?

On 9/7/2021 at 1:18 PM, dudebro1993 said:

Eggman has regressed since SA2, he nearly killed Sonic! He's been useless since then, never a threat. 

 

On 9/8/2021 at 1:31 AM, Meta77 said:

Eggman in the games has not been a real or let me say FELT like a threat since the adventure games and 06. In the comics IDW has painted him as something id like to see in the games. Pretty evil with moments of funny

Define threat

On 9/7/2021 at 1:18 PM, dudebro1993 said:

 

They ruined Silver by making him a pathetic fanboy of Whisper. I hate how they made him goofy, it's so childish. He turned from a badass to a simp in the comics.

Well he is a naive hedgehog with an appreciation for the simple things in life

[dudebro1993]

27 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

 

Define threat

Well he is a naive hedgehog with an appreciation for the simple things in life

Like in actually coming close to killing Sonic. In SA2 Sonic only survived because of the plot. The closest he's been a threat was maybe in the Zombot arc.

Regarding Silver, I don't like the goofy version of him. i preferred him in Sonic 06.

[Red Hot Jack]

It's fair. I still prefer him being a dorky hero than yet another edgy rival, he was pretty bad at that too. Another interesting thing is Silver is overpowered, I'm not okay with that but I guess it comes in handy when he's a hero, like during the Metal Virus.

As for this arc, I agree, it's so boring just like the arc before, sadly, I preferred the Zeti in the Metal Virus too, they were handled better, yeah they may have killed quite a bit here but still no major damage to Sonic and the Restoration. You guys want more simple plots but IMO the main story is a lot more interesting, Belle/Eggman/Starline for me, that's what I think, the Deadly Six were left in the world for no reason, it's redundant to have them back already just to do nothing with them. I would rather take the girls in camping arc to be honest, that sounds like a fun adventure with nice interactions like the Chao Races arc.

[DabigRG]

On 9/8/2021 at 9:48 PM, Kaotic Kanine said:

To chime in on IDW's treatment of the game cast, I overall find it to be satisfactory. 

Though, admittedly, I don't have much to say about the characters that aren't Amy and Cream  But I can note that Blaze is way better than in both Archie continuities. As much as I find her overrated, I don't deny Blaze's badassery, yet throughout Archie she was frequently knocked out cold and held captive: literally spending an entire issue in one arc inside a cage to that end. In IDW though, Blaze debuted kicking serious ass alongside Sonic and then being the MVP in the Battle for Angel Island. Omega is also a lot more in-character here than in Archie while maintaining some of the better "eccentric-ness" from Archie (such as wanting a mouth to bite at things). And the Babylon Rogues are much more in-line with how they were in the games than Archie, being merely arrogant jerks with some noble qualities (compare that with their being complicit in the obliteration of an entire castle to get at the Babylon Garden in Archie).

With regards to Amy... Well, okay, my feelings on Amy in IDW had always been more contentious than satisfied. She was perfectly fine in her debut, showcasing her passion, badassery, and admiration for Sonic. But even in that issue, Amy was highly insistent on having Sonic re-join the Resistance (which, let's be real, is only slightly better than her badgering him to marry her) and a lot of her dialogue and mannerisms came off more like Sally than the actual Amy. Though that would've been fine if the former bits were at the forefront for the rest of Amy's appearances in IDW, but instead the comic doubled down on the Sally-esque traits: having Amy be focused on plans and tactics when she had always been more of a "act first, think later" hero (not unlike Sonic himself), spend considerable time cataloguing resources while everyone else were doing things that were much more in-character for them, and then becoming one of those falling to doubt and despair as the Metal Virus worsened under her leadership. The latter being an exceptionally sore point for me since one of Amy's core characteristics is her intense energy and optimism; she's not someone who gets overwhelmed and become doubtful or despaired easily at all, yet IDW would go on to have Amy ask Cream how she manages to stay upbeat and hopeful! That would be like Sonic asking Tails how he keeps his cool and be free-spirited, it's so mind-boggling. I've been dissatisfied with Evan's stories thus far, but I will forever praise her for writing Amy as the go-getting, passionate, and optimistic girl who doesn't miss a chance to flirt with Sonic (but still being a responsible and powerful heroine). From Chao Racing to present, IDW!Amy is a lot fucking better and much more accurate to her character than before, and without having her be the butt of jokes/overshadowed by Sally like Reboot!Archie did. But I'm still going to question why Amy wasn't like that from the very beginning. 

Cream's treatment, on the other hand, was highly satisfactory from beginning to end. Those familiar with me ought to know I hated how Cream was treated in Archie, more specifically in the Reboot continuity, for reasons too long to write out. So I was not expecting much from IDW, especially since Cream was made to miss out on the "Neo Metal Sonic Saga". But Cream's treatment in her overdue debut, and since then, was a very welcomed 180 from how it was in Archie. Like, sure, Cream still didn't get to fight in her debut (though 100% justified by the Zombots being fatal to touch) but her accomplishments from past games and merits as a character were acknowledged, with Sonic the Hedgehog himself calling Cream a brave hero with great potential. And Cream not only went on to be one of the characters with greater focus in the Metal Virus Saga, providing a lot of compelling emotional scenes that made her lots of fans, but Cream got to showcase those heroic merits of hers in the fight against Zeena in the climactic battle to end the Metal Virus, as well as standing up to Zavok and participating in the battle against Eggman shortly after. After all those years of getting cucked hard by Sally in Archie, IDW finally allowed Cream to flourish as a character: to show off her action credentials and emotional depth, which got people to care about her. And that is what I wanted out of Cream in Archie, dear folks who questioned my outrage towards that books treatment of her. And for delivering on that, IDW has my favor.

Although, "Chao Races and Badnik Bases" did screw up big by pretty much advertising Cream as a major player, only to be no more significant than she was in Archie (seriously, how do you have a Chao-centric story and have Cream be a minor character? May as well have Espio as a supporting character in a ninja-centric story...). And let's just say, after that arc, I'm really hoping Gemerl doesn't tag along in the next story to feature Cream  But I'll still give IDW more merit over Archie for actually doing Cream justice overall. 

 

On 9/9/2021 at 11:40 AM, Kazhnuz said:

I don't see much change in Cream treatment in IDW and Archie Post-Reboot, as TBH in both the idea is "people that have responsibilities toward Cream don't want to see her hurt", and that I think that in post reboot we would have got a moment where the role of "protector/protected" are reversed, as it's a pretty common tropes. So for me, it was kinda the same idea, except that we got to it sooner in IDW. That's why after that we are back in the roles where Gemerl protect her (it's even stronger in a way in IDW, as it's Gemerl entire purpose), and that Shadow was shown a disproving the idea of getting Cream in such a place in CR&BB. So for me the only "real" diff is that she got a story about her at one moment, which didn't happens yet in Archie Post-Reboot.

For me, the character that got the most changes without being a known character affected by SEGA (unlike Gemerl, Omega and Shadow) is Rouge. And I'm happy that she got a more "playful" personality than in Archie, she have a lot of gold moments.

 

On 9/9/2021 at 9:02 PM, Kaotic Kanine said:

That's... A very good point. I had actually been feeling that Gemerl was coming off like the 'new Sally' in IDW (with his "It's too dangerous" line from Issue 26 being the exact thing Sally told Cream one too many times), and this perfectly explains why  I guess Cream is just not allowed to not have a single character needlessly bodyguarding her, ordering her not to get involved, and stealing spotlight/contributions from her (characters that aren't Cheese, I should emphasize). 

Of course, IDW is at least a little better since Cream did get her own story (as you and SkyHorizon acknowledged) and got compelling focus during MVS, whereas she her only "role" in Shattered World was to be Sky Patrol's waitress and Sally's mentee (even though such a role belongs to Amy). And another improvement is that Gemerl is actually proven wrong for his behavior regarding Cream and acknowledged in Issue 27 that he did need Cream's help against Zeena, and again in Issue 36 when Cream saved his ass from a bunch of Badniks. But Sally was never shown to be in the wrong or argued against with regards Cream, and didn't even acknowledge Cream saving everyone's ass after she lead them into an ambush. So, though Gemerl still really needs to butt out of Cream's affairs, at least he learns not to underestimate Cream (if that's the correct term) while Sally never did. 

It's actually "Annihilation, Charge, FIRE!"  But I get your point. I actually just re-looked up Omega's lines in Heroes and he was indeed quite eager to destroy things in general. I guess my real issue with Archie!Omega was that he was more "emotional" than the actual character is? Like, aside from the intense hatred and rage for Eggman and his other robots, Omega expresses no emotion and is apathetic to pretty much everything aside from Shadow and Rouge. He certainly isn't the type of character to ever develop romantic feelings for someone (even if that crush is a joke) and I don't think Omega would even be "swayed" by Cream's cuteness and tears to hold back on harming her, among other things. The only exceptions in the games are when Omega reassures Rouge about Shadow possibly being real, instead of an android, in Heroes and expressing regret at being the one to seal Shadow in the future of 06, but tellingly those moments were only with the two characters Omega remotely considers friends. Otherwise, Omega is as cold and unfeeling as you'd expect from a literal killing machine. Which can still provide some humor, such as Omega's snarking at the Egg Pawns being destroyed by fruit in Lost Jungle.

The only real change with Cream in this comic is that there's simply more space within the cast and universe for her to do stuff.

Archie always had the double-edged sword of being this big expansive world with a greater collection of characters, lore, continuities, and themes than the already eclectic games did and so there was inevitable conflict regarding what material could get attention, when, and how much. And given that one of the bigger requests and incentives for the reboot was redefining the world with expansive minutiae to reclaim that feeling and set up stories to tell once they got the chance, that arguably made things simpler as well as denser with the pros and cons of each.

Next, similar to half the reason Rouge was more antagonistic for much of preboot, there was also the incentive to do things with the relatively new to the spinoff(for reasons with interesting implications) Cream that the games themselves had sorta but not really devoted time into it with her unique character type. Her main draw is being the sheltered baby sister of the cast who is nonetheless eager to learn more about the world and has the potential to be a great heroine someday, thus making her tagging along with the other more experienced heroes a natural source of character dynamics and even conflict. And in a move that just made sense, the latter was naturally facilitated through her relationship with Sally, who--though more proactive and action oriented than before--was still a selfless and neurotic character at heart. Thus, we had the plot point about her looking after Cream while her overprotectiveness unintentionally caused her frustration when she naturally wants to do more to help. This was actually a pretty good side arc for their characters that was clearly paced with how the Unleashed Adaptation would concluded in mind.

But unfortunately, along with the debates and conflicts of interest that would be had with this aspect, there were two or three other problems that ended up hampering and arguably squandering the potential of that arc: the afformentioned crowdedness, the page space(citation needed), and World's Unite.

As mentioned before, Cream being the one to save everyone ended up going relatively unremarked upon both in the issue itself and afterwards in favor Sally realizing she almost got everyone killed and a few subsequent stories with them generally seemingly going ahead without acknowledging that one happened. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I seen the recall that page base was something of an issue around this General time frame with stores going from something like 24 pages to 22 after a certain point?

Well whatever the case, there was a finite amount of space per issue and with all that tended to go on in them, there was sometimes little space to let little moments that didn't immediately progress the current story or set up the next one breathe and so things like Sally thanking or apologizing to Cream didn't get to happen on panel. This actually something the backup stories were better about doing--since they weren't the main event more often than not, they were usually used for more character driven stories of less intensity and so a story or two where Cream discusses her progress with Sally would've been a good fit for that. Perhaps, given the likelihood of it being after Control(or whatever the story was called--man I need to read my Archie comics again someday), the incident where Cream mobilized the other sidekicks & Big to save everyone from the E-Series trio could come up during it as an example of just how capable she is when given the opportunity. And for bonus points, you could even have Amy, Rotor, or whoever vouching for her due to their own close connection or ability to see the bigger picture in mind, which would end with Sally realizing their right and promising to try loosening up on her going forward so as not to stifle her development.

And while I admit that my memory of stories with them afterwards is a little hazy, the next time the issue significantly came up in continuity was the Apotos battle with the Darka Gaia Titan. Now the Dark Gaia Monsters were generally played up as being a bit more dangerous than Badniks iirc and so it makes some degree of sense that Cream would end up being told to sit that one out with Rotor in universe; of course, our of universe, it was pulling double duty in that it already had Knuckles and the Werehog along for the ride and so there wasn't much room for the more support oriented Cream to shine in a knock out GoW brawl. And instead, it pulled triple duty in having Cream having the floor to voice her frustrations, with the seemingly not opposed Rotor assuring her that her day will come soon. 

But then World's Unite happened, seriously throwing off the already gradual pacing to the side and disrupting the story almost entirely. Cream in particular got hit hard by this as, in addition to the evolution her own arc being halted, she now had to share space with Eggman, Wily, Xander, Gemerl, the Light Robot Masters, Tempo, Sticks, Fastidious, Comedy, the Maverick Hunters, Silver, and many other Sega & Capcom heroes. And when they were up against Sonicman, M'eggaman, the Deadly Six, almost every Maverick, and finally a superpowered Sigma, there was no way she was gonna have much more significance than bringing forth the Chaos Emeralds.

And for better and for worse, this sudden executive detour would have lingering effects on all of the books: once the main book got going again, complaints from the fanbase, possibly within Archie, and for all we know even Sega resulted in them hitting the fast forward button to wrap up the Shattered World Crisis in 275. On the bright side, this meant Cream got to get involved in the action and even head a major plot point in the finale after being benched for much of the arc; but it also came at the cost of never really resolving her differences with Sally on panel and so it feels almost as unearned as it is sudden. I believe it was the Chun-Nan story with the Shijin Warriors where this(as well as Cream and maybe Sally in general) first came into play post crossover and it's unceremonious nature was immediately jarring: after being told to sit out for much of the arc, we jump into a story into a story involving Silver Sonic, Conquering Storm, the Yurashia Egg Army, and the Dark Gaia Phoenix as the opposing sides of the fights. And Cream is just... allowed to be active amongst all this with no worries and even encouragement instead from Sally? Ok

 

 

As for IDW, well, Chao Races and Badnik Bases unfortunately brought back those inherent issues in tandem with it's biggest problem or two as an arc.

 

On 9/9/2021 at 3:37 PM, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Read Issue 43, and to be honest, Zeti Hunt has to be one of the lamest arcs yet, in my opinion. This was being hyped up as some intense arc where Zavok stops playing games and starts using psychological warfare on Sonic. The 'hunt' lasted one issue, and the 'psychological' aspect was literally the Zeti saying they'd attack one place, then they attack another. Whoop.

I'll leave the comments on 'Starline usurping another plot in the last issue' because that's probably just a me problem, but in general, this has just felt so...nothing. The Zeti were already wearing thin in IDW and this arc has done absolutely nothing to endear me to them any further - apart from Zavok pulling some smart moves on Sonic (him smashing the spindash right into a wall was pretty rad). Apart from that, the arc has just been another standard Sonic VS Deadly Six fight, and Sonic dominated them for most of the fight. It's kind of pathetic just how badly they were being solo bodied until Zavok stepped in. I honestly just wish this arc had been Sonic & Tails having to go and try to hunt the Zeti down piece by piece - giving us small set-pieces of what they attempt to do solo, and the like. 

The one shining aspect of the issue was easily Tails. I really liked the stuff with him and Sonic working together, fighting using Sonic's skills, and sneakily resorting back to his tricks again. The fist-bump at the end was a nice touch too. Other than that, bleh.

Yeah, this Arc is actually a bit too middle of the road for what all it was cracked up to be. Like I know this is something I've complained about with this comic for quite some time, but this does hit on at least three variations of that.

Flynn teased near the end of year two that the daily sex being out and about was going to be relevant in the future and then year three was announced to be mostly smaller lower stakes stories that seemed to be more apt to feature less action-oriented characters. The framework by itself seemed to be the appropriate thing to do after the heaviness of the metal virus as well as a fertile ground to please fans of the various casts of characters that both the games and the comic has to play with now. And given that the Zeti on mixed up bunch of baddies with a wide variety of individual abilities, quirks, and mindsets, you would think that them showing up as potential antagonists in such smaller scale stories would have been an effective way to both provide a variety of smaller scale stories with the cast and give each of them more time to shine or maybe be fleshed out like Bad Guys did for Zavok. 

Secondly, as I also complained about it with the most recent issue, Zeti Hunt really doesn't take advantage of its premise, most of it's notable players, and even its title by the end. Ignoring how their attacking the Restoration Base is a bit much for a bit, you're absolutely right that the story quickly devolved into yet another Unbreakable Bond versus Deadly Six story, which we already had in Lost World and possibly to greater effect. Meanwhile, the Chaotix and Team Jewel--the two supporting teams with more to gain and or lose in this arc--didn't really get to do much of anything when this really should have been their story. Again Zavok and Master Zik versus Vector and Jewel in a game of strategy and wits would have been much more satisfying, interesting, and unpredictable compared to a straightforward brawl we ended up with here. Sure the former two, Tails, Zazz, and maybe Zeena got some good moments out of this and that shot of Sonic showing up to the fight was cool, but outside of that there wasn't much of note. Also going back to the beginning with Sonic, Eggman, and Zik here, wouldn't have been more autonomous for the story to be about the city trying to get back together on one side of the story with the heroes and a man trying to track them down and stop that from happening? The Band would get back together in the end of course but that could have led to a lot more interesting scenarios, encounters, and again interactions as a result.

And finally the conceit Season as well has been sorta bogus thus far given how Chao Races basically aborted its Team BetaRose story to shove in Shadow and Starline has practically been the REAL villain of most arcs: the Zeti and especially Clutch have been little more than decoys who either act as simple distractions for the real intrigue or seemingly change characterization before disappearing for the story entirely. We've had some nice moments during the first half of a child races, the camping out story between the IDW girls will probably be a kinda fun bit of enlightenment, and Kit & Surge sort of promise to at least bring something new to the table going into the milestone, but the year of a as a whole has been average thus far.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Ironically, I'd argue that the whole push to throw Starline in as the 'secret final boss' of these arcs magnifies an issue Ian has ALWAYS had with his writing. He's always had pacing issues with trying to push things into four issues per arc - and these arcs are arguably even worse because he's now trying to push the actual story into THREE issues, while holding onto a fourth issue for Starline, and even Evan fell into this pitfall. These stories, despite having potential end up puttering out into the bare minimum because they can't even get a full arc to breath, mainly because they have to dedicate an issue to shoving Starline in haphazardly. 

So here's our big supposed Zeti arc that's supposed to be a big game-changer where the Zeti decide enough is enough and will have no mercy on Sonic, and it gets relegated to THREE issues - one of which had to be dedicated solely to the 'hunt' part of the arc, and even at that - several pages per issue ALSO has to be taken out to set up Starline for the final issue as well. So our big Zeti Hunt frankly could probably be closer to two issues and some change, with their psychological angle being literally 'they think we attack here but we attack HERE instead", and the big 'we're not playing games anymore' fight being literally 'lets destroy this world for the umpteenth time' and Sonic kicking all of their asses single-handedly until Zavok decides to stop standing around. 

It's honestly really frustrating. You can argue that this is set-up for Imposter Syndrome and Issue 50 all you like, and I'd still argue this is poor pacing that's ruining arcs with genuine potential to give Starline an (IMO, of course) unearned 'big threat' status by #50. I don't dislike the ideas they want to go with Starline, I think the idea of Eggman lackey who's disenchanted with him and wants to rise above his failures is good, but I honestly think the execution has been, and continues to be bad. He's not really displayed or showcased any attributes that make him better than Eggman, he doesn't make much, if any improvements to his plans and schemes, and he does a lot of silly things, and we're mostly just TOLD that he's improving, when really it feels more like luck and the Tri-Core saving his tail every time. 

I just thinks it's really lame that other villains have to suffer for the sake of Starline's set-up. The Zeti's big arc involves them having even more bare basic motivations than their initial intro to IDW (Wanting to enslave the Zombots and use them for a variety of personality-based goals VS just wanting to destroy the planet for the hell of it), and putting up even less of a fight for most of it than previous fights involving them, and their attempt to make the Zeti appear intelligent comes off as ridiculously stupid as well for how basic their scheme is. It just feels heavily rushed and basic.