Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

That's a pretty wild exaggeration. There's lines they're not going to cross, but there's still room for some disagreement with Sonic. I think it'd be entirely reasonable for, say, Shadow to be more proactive about stopping Eggman's schemes, hunting down and destroying his bases and such, compared to Sonic's purely reactive approach. 

Fair enough, but personally for me, it doesn't really mean a whole lot if it ultimately goes nowhere. At best, we probably just get a couple of cool-looking Sonic vs. Shadow fights. Its reasonable for Shadow to be more proactive than Sonic, but I think you should also think about the end goal of that. 

[Diogenes]

It doesn't even necessarily need to drive them into conflict. Sometimes we have a story where Eggman reveals some grand plan and Sonic and co go stop it, sometimes we get a story where Shadow and co hunt him down and wreck his shit before it becomes a public event. It "goes" the same place the series as a whole goes, infinitely into the distance.

[Endy]

sonic would probably be fine with eggman being sent to jail. but like, light hearted cartoon jail. I don't trust the comic not to make the subject of jailing Eggman bizarre and overly weighty 

I can not decide for myself if the fact this comic has maximum security prisons with little Sonic style guys running around in riot gear is hilarious or frustrating to watch

[shdowhunt60]

I don't know if it's just because I tend to lean conservative on this sort of issue or not, but I personally have no issue with Sonic taking this sort of position. He's clearly appealing to his own sense of virtue ethics rather than the consequentialist stance characters like Shadow and Espio are taking.

Which I mean, that makes sense for Sonic as a character, he's very much the "do what you believe is right" kind of personality. The problem I have is that at no point has the comic let that pay off in a positive way. Instead, it just highlights it as just causing a vicious repeating cycle over and over again, because at no point do any of these characters Sonic just sort of catches and releases seek any path of redemption.

It's becoming kind of exhausting at this point, and something seriously needs to change. We can't continue to treat Sonic like he's just wrong all the time, and that's never going to change. Either he needs to abandon his sense of virtue ethics, and start doing what other people are suggesting where they just trying to jail Eggman et. al., or the comic needs to go the other way and prove that, yes, sticking to your sense of virtue isn't always the easiest path, but it will eventually pay off and you will be the better person for it.

[Razule]

The pay off would be a villain redeeming themself. That won't be any of the SEGA characters, and most IDW-original villains are probably going to stay villains, but maybe someday. Even if only one in ten villains turn out to not be that bad, it'll prove Sonic's point. I.. suppose.

[Zaysho]

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

I think if they had ended it with "I didn't kill or imprison you and you turned out fine" that would have wrapped the subject in a neat little bow. Shadow's existence is proof that Sonic is correct. They could just remind us of that and cap it off there.

iirc, Sonic kind of did do this when he got Shadow to stand down the first time, didn't he? I feel like first appearance Shadow is handled very differently from how he is for the rest of the book. He's way less in his own head and is much more expressive about what he thinks, not nearly as ego driven and more about doing something for the greater good even if the situation is too murky with the nature of Tinker.

I almost feel like this book had to step back immediately and blur things just to make the whole thing look like Sonic's fault. He didn't even have a week from finding Tinker and fighting Metal Sonic before Starline, someone he (nor anyone else) couldn't have know about, came into the picture.

 

I think it's fine to question Sonic's approach and his generally lax nature; having him doubt himself and mull over other perspectives is fine, the book tried to do that much during the last arc even if I felt it was a weak subplot, and I think his response to Zavok is perfectly in-character and suitable because Sonic's confidence doesn't stay shaken for long. I think it's just the nature of this book holding it back from feeling like meaningful exploration of his character, which the games at this point treats as a paragon that everyone relies on.

[SkyHorizon]

1 hour ago, Zaysho said:

iirc, Sonic kind of did do this when he got Shadow to stand down the first time, didn't he? I feel like first appearance Shadow is handled very differently from how he is for the rest of the book. He's way less in his own head and is much more expressive about what he thinks, not nearly as ego driven and more about doing something for the greater good even if the situation is too murky with the nature of Tinker.

 

I agree, it was a nice way of characterizing Shadow, especially because you could agree or not with him but you have to admit that he had a point.

The rest of the book he was an insufferable egomaniac (thx SEGA).

[Wraith]

3 hours ago, Zaysho said:

 

I almost feel like this book had to step back immediately and blur things just to make the whole thing look like Sonic's fault. He didn't even have a week from finding Tinker and fighting Metal Sonic before Starline, someone he (nor anyone else) couldn't have know about, came into the picture.

 

and also, since this is the game continuity it means that no one else contributes to solving these problems in any meaningful way and hasn't since heroes/sth. how much do "other perspectives" matter when shadow and espio weren't around the last four or five or six times something bad happened, and probably won't be around the next time? even during forces he was spinning his wheels until sonic came back and started putting a dent in things again. sonic and tails completely contained all that shit basically on their own without anyone getting hurt.  if you want to talk shit you gotta start pulling your own weight, faker. 


anyway. bad subplot. we can talk about something else now. been a while since i surgeposted. she's good.

[SkyHorizon]

12 minutes ago, Wraith said:

and also, since this is the game continuity it means that no one else contributes to solving these problems in any meaningful way and hasn't since heroes/sth. how much do "other perspectives" matter when shadow and espio weren't around the last four or five or six times something bad happened, and probably won't be around the next time? 

Well, you can always say that "they were doing things not showed in the games". As a comparison, think to the Black Arms Arc during the Unleashed adaptation in the Archie canon. I don't think your argument really has a leg to stand on.

[D.K.]

vague, non-committal handwaves to deeper themes are something i think the comic in general has an issue with.

it's less that they're trying to find depth that isn't there. more like they're finding that depth but they know SEGA's gonna slap them on the wrist if they dig it up, so they just kinda stand there pointing at it like "hey this status quo's pretty unhealthy huh" "haha yep"

[IWriteAlright]

13 hours ago, Wraith said:

I think if they had ended it with "I didn't kill or imprison you and you turned out fine" that would have wrapped the subject in a neat little bow. Shadow's existence is proof that Sonic is correct. They could just remind us of that and cap it off there.

And shadow could respond. "And I left infinite live and you know what happened next." Because despite how much its detached itself, it is a follow up to forces.

7 hours ago, SkyHorizon said:

I agree, it was a nice way of characterizing Shadow, especially because you could agree or not with him but you have to admit that he had a point.

The rest of the book he was an insufferable egomaniac (thx SEGA).

Flynn talks about on his podcast how after issue 6 it feels like things had changed with shadow. There could have been a genuine direction change with shadow between that period. He often talks about how sega can just change their mind. Although there's an argument to be made those mandates were already in place, that argument was just agreeable with what they wanted shadow to be.

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

and also, since this is the game continuity it means that no one else contributes to solving these problems in any meaningful way and hasn't since heroes/sth. how much do "other perspectives" matter when shadow and espio weren't around the last four or five or six times something bad happened, and probably won't be around the next time? even during forces he was spinning his wheels until sonic came back and started putting a dent in things again. sonic and tails completely contained all that shit basically on their own without anyone getting hurt.  if you want to talk shit you gotta start pulling your own weight, faker. 


anyway. bad subplot. we can talk about something else now. been a while since i surgeposted. she's good.

This post for example. I know this person is goofing but it brought up a good point.

In the sonic channel story recently , which is written be fellow who overseeing the characterizations in the games and the comics itself who I guess we can call the " lore master" , shadow is actually doing things in the background and helping people in the background. Shadow is pulling his own weight, and if that's the context of the character his unwillingness to listen to people and his frustrations with them make sense. He's essentially being batman in the background saving people from huge threats they wont notice with no credit and he wants to do things his way because he sees them to be more effective. This would make his negative response to sonic before he gets zombiefied extremely justified because it wouldn't be a moment of just listening to someone else, it would be a be a moment where he decided to put his methods aside and it didn't work so he doubled down.  Doesn't make the execution good or make shadow being zombiefied a good plot point, but its understandable. Possibly even more justified that is demonstrated very clearly that eggman and shadow are very different people and their ability to reform isn't comparable. Maybe surge and kit may make for better arguments though considering the shared background all 3 of them have and given ian's hints, may have similar horrifying upbringings.

The " cowards run I win" line in retrospect after chao bases really feels like Ian struggling to understand his motivations and to reconcile shadow in his story rather than anything tangible from sega. Because even during CBB as flawed as shadow is in it, his desire to take down starline is still is built in a desire to take down what he sees as the bigger threat because sonic explained to shadow, starline was the cause off eggman returning to his former personality.

We and when I say we and when I say we I think I am including Ian Flynn in this , may have misinterpreted the direction " he seeks out strong foes " and they meant " He wants to get to the root of the issue and solve it ". I don't personally don't think it was a different characterization, I think he's been the same way the entire book the writers are starting to get more used to what that entails. Doesn't mean all his mandates are good, but this sort of thing is very much a corporate game of telephone.

I guess my point is, he may not be as egotistic as we assumed he was, he may just be a pragmatist to a fault. Which I suppose is how he's always been , if you ignore all the other parts of the character they shaved off.

On sonic himself, he just isn't that deep? And that's a problem for everyone?

Sonic is a mascot of Sega a corporation. Even though mascots largely are a non entity in corporate association and they might do better to just let sonic be a character like his film adaptation, this is how they choose to present the character. And because of that he doesn't dwell on things too much which doesn't make for that deep of a character. Which is fine. But, it doesn't allow for plot points that rely on introspection to work well. The character doesn't change or consider anything so it ultimately ends up meaning nothing.

On the flipside, maybe he should do some introspection and that's fine and ok and Sonic not doing this is also a problem? Doing introspection and occasionally being thoughtful aren't character traits, they are just being. Sonic failing to do this robs himself of characterization, rather than defining his character. And may also be making his game incarnation increasingly culturally irrelevant , given the kinds of introspection and vulnerability children media characters do and have these days. Even sonic himself in his movie, a much better character he's been in quite sometime. Sonic walking the corporate line is only relevant to sega no one cares about sega in relation to sonic outside of their ability to make things. Yes, some fans go to far about how they want sonic think deeply, and yeah maybe Ian should go another direction with the narrative. But I do think its an issue how sonic handles things, because it makes him the most boring character in the book with his name on it.

 

 

[Red Hot Jack]

Spoiler

Pros and Cons:

+ Not much of the Zeti, they are done for now, they have been used as much as they could

+ Belle's tragic story is revealed in full and it is quite sad and lonely, makes sense now that she is the way she is

+ Her confrontation with Starline was intriguing as he took her father away from her, it was needed IMO

+ The panels of Sonic letting go of the villains were hinting at something maybe? Not sure but I hope so

+ The Chaotix did something useful in the arc, finally!

- The reveal was dragged out and split between this issue and Test Run finale

- It was called Zeti Hunt but the 6 didn't do much or cause enough mess

- Too many characters overall and little time to focus on most of them, like Tangle and Whisper or Eggman

Overall I liked it, a lot, not the part about the Zeti but the thing in the preview was also cool 

As for the morality discussion, I think this is the matter: Sonic letting go of the villains and setting them free as well as hoping for Eggman to redeem itself, will not lead to anything probably, but I do believe the key here is Belle. 

This isn't a spoiler. Sonic let Mr. Tinker live and he created Belle, Eggman will never be redeemed but the writers got him to create something good, Belle is the hope something good can come from the mad Doctor. It's the only way they can make sense of this plot for me.

I really don't mind her anyway, she has a particular story and a... curious design, but I kinda like her, she's goofy and insecure like me, so I can relate to her, but she's also fragile, sensitive and a bit weak, which I don't really like, it makes sense for her to be this way but I'm not sure how her personality can fit into a Sonic book, that is supposed to be full of action and adventure, but she definitely brings in emotion.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Finally, #44.

"kill/spare" dilemma
I'm a bit tired of it, but this is good way to end it. Even if you don't agree with Sonic, it's hard to not respect his position. So I guess it was necessary, otherwise last "chapter" would be Metal Virus, not exactly perfect conclusion. I'm satisfied and more than ready to move on.

Zeti
It's just epilogue issue for them. They leave and are implied to be gone for a while. It's a little weird that they don't go to, you know, friccking jail, but whatever. Overall it was a okay story for them, but it was slightly filler-ish. Not much was accomplished or learned. Best I can say is that Zavok got decent fight when he spend a little to much time in Metal Virus and Bad Guys just sitting. Maybe Flynn just needed another little adventure to fill out space for Road to 50. IDK, it's good enough, not great.

Chaotix
Sorry, their role is barely bigger than a cameo. Kinda wish this story had Chaotix OR Tangle/Whisper, not both (preferably former, Tangle has previous and upcoming arc). But I suppose it's nothing to loose sleep over.

Belle/Starline
Spoilers I guess?

Spoiler

We learn rest of Belle's story, not that there is much of it. Mostly filling few gaps and few sad tones. But sad is all I ever got form her. I'm still not fond of her and I'm a bit annoyed next arc is still about her.

And Starline uses her code to program loyalty into his Imposters. Science is a bit far fetch, but it's very in chracters, trying to avoid Eggman's biggest mistakes.

In conclusion, completely "fine" ending to "fine" arc.

Now riddle me this: is Belle flock of hair wood as well? If so, shouldn't it never ever move?
 

[dbzfan7]

Before I finish the chapter this is the best server/forum boot image lol

Spoiler

 

[KingMario05]

51 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Before I finish the chapter this is the best server/forum boot image lol

  Hide contents

 

When you've told the trolls to quit their bullshit one too many times:

[Wraith]

I really enjoy this issue but I've basically enjoyed every time they've given us another piece of the Belle puzzle. Really like how the Belle/Starline stuff is progressing personally.

[Kuzu]

Yea, I actually liked this one more than the last one. More character focused and it actually progressed the plot.

[charmsb]

I liked this frame a lot and the 3 seconds of Chaotix action but other than that I am still quite bored by Belle's story line. I never got to know her as a character outside "I like fixing things also Mr. Tinker made me" and so I really don't care that she's sad or whatever. They should've let her cook for a bit and then did this arc.

[StaticMania]

Considering what happened, I'm not sure her just being around would've  made this any better...

Way to prove her right though, A+

[MetalSkulkBane]

Hey I just realized that Starline has speed, strength and jumping that is not flying.

Does that means he's Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings at a single bound! ?

Now if only he could be mistaken for a plane...

[CertifiedNobody]

As a massive Transformers fan, seeing the Matrix Of Leadership on Starline's shelf was a nice surprise. Unless he's the next Prime I'm going to just assume it was an early attempt at controlling the Warp Topaz.

[charmsb]

21 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

As a massive Transformers fan, seeing the Matrix Of Leadership on Starline's shelf was a nice surprise. Unless he's the next Prime I'm going to just assume it was an early attempt at controlling the Warp Topaz.

Look at what Dr. Starline is saying in the panel, too. Wonder who on the team is a Transformers fan.

[Dr. Mechano]

Maaan, I really want the residual nice part of Eggman - the part of his subconscious that created the "Mr. Tinker" persona to begin with - to still have some shred of compassion, however fleeting, for Belle.

I don't know how much "goodness" Sega would allow IDW Eggman to display, so I'm not getting my hopes up too much, but it'd be so amazing if he swooped in and protected Belle from another villain or something. Might brush it off as "Ho ho, no one damages my brilliant work" so there's some plausible deniability that it's just Eggman praising himself, but there's just enough ambiguity that it could be read as him genuinely caring about Belle too.

[Razule]

I don't know why I like the stories that are mostly characters standing around talking to each other more than action-driven stuff.

Belle isn't the most interesting character by herself, but there's a potential dynamic she could have with Eggman. We could see a side of him that's never been explored before. Or at least, I don't think it has been? I haven't seen everything Sonic. 

Her and Tinker having such a deep bond when she probably existed for a few weeks or months is a bit weird to think about, but it makes sense considering that's her entire lfe.

[Dr. Mechano]

5 minutes ago, Razule said:

We could see a side of him that's never been explored before. Or at least, I don't think it has been? I haven't seen everything Sonic.

He acted somewhat paternal to Bokkun in X (both in the anime and the comic), but not to the same extent as the brief snippets of what we've seen of Mr. Tinker and Belle. Bokkun was still mostly treated as a henchman, even if Eggman doted on him at times.