Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[IWriteAlright]

I'm going to post this here and in the shadow thread if you all don't mind. Occasionally we all miss details that could elaborate on a lot, this is one of them. Out in the open

 

While this is about shadow this could also provide context for various other issues that may pop in future, now that we know who's possibly giving direction about certain things. I remember the period where creams robo buddy had very strange rules around him despite going virtually unused to this day outside of promotional art. Along with the issues knuckles has with his island, and the possibly removed two worlds issues. Some speculate that some of these things may be at the behest of a SOA that doesn't care about the time and care put in by SOJ. But this seems like it may just be a case, one that if you are aware of sega's history is very common, of SOJ being completely out of touch and not understanding what people want. But suggesting they know better anyway.

Thought it may provide some interesting discussion going forward when sega comes up

 

[CertifiedNobody]

15 minutes ago, IWriteAlright said:

I'm going to post this here and in the shadow thread if you all don't mind. Occasionally we all miss details that could elaborate on a lot, this is one of them. Out in the open

 

While this is about shadow this could also provide context for various other issues that may pop in future, now that we know who's possibly giving direction about certain things. I remember the period where creams robo buddy had very strange rules around him despite going virtually unused to this day outside of promotional art. Along with the issues knuckles has with his island, and the possibly removed two worlds issues. Some speculate that some of these things may be at the behest of a SOA that doesn't care about the time and care put in by SOJ. But this seems like it may just be a case, one that if you are aware of sega's history is very common, of SOJ being completely out of touch and not understanding what people want. But suggesting they know better anyway.

Thought it may provide some interesting discussion going forward when sega comes up

 

Another reason I'm glad Sonic Team is back in America. Not everything made in America is great but Sega Of America seems more in-touch with what Sonic fans want, and most of the American projects like the movie, comics, Mania, Twitter Takeovers, and the Dreamcast/Dark Age games feel less "safe" and more interesting.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Man people just love any excuse they can get to go "man fuck those japanese", right? You're really going from "the best Shadow content lately is the Japanese exclusive story written online" to "those Japanese don't know what they're doing" at the drop of a dime because SoJ got mentioned? Boy, can't let go that Tom Kalinske got told to take a hike 30 years ago because he was the genius and the techniques used by SoA were the perfect ones and truly there was nothing wrong that wouldn't crash after a few years because they were toy-selling, immediate-result-at-cost-of-duration techniques seen in a dozen other fad toys in America!

[Wraith]

30 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Another reason I'm glad Sonic Team is back in America. Not everything made in America is great but Sega Of America seems more in-touch with what Sonic fans want, and most of the American projects like the movie, comics, Mania, Twitter Takeovers, and the Dreamcast/Dark Age games feel less "safe" and more interesting.

The "Dark age" games were primarily made by/for Japan. Sonic Adventure's stylistic shakeups were part of a push to make Sonic more popular at home, and the "Sonic Team USA" that developed SA2 was a small team from Japan.

The modern games you guys don't like are written here, and personally, I find stuff like the twitter takeover, the movie, and Boom to be inline with that. Shallow humor and trendchasing at the expense of what makes the characters and world of Sonic unique.

[Soniman]

Sega of America and Japan have  both shown various ways in how they don't understand their own franchise be it America's hackneyed watered down writing and interpretations (hamstringed by Japan's idiotic mandates not helping) or Japan's inability to simply make a good game anymore. Both are doing their part to make this series feel as flat and uninteresting as it is currently rest assured. 

There's virtually no synergy and one side screws over the other consistently so no one is really happy. I'm just happy half decent stuff like the comics, mania and occasional animation is allowed to even exist in a environment like this 

[Wraith]

There are people that understand Sonic all over the world, so I don't tend to lock his success to a specific culture or region anymore. The SoJ that gave us those classic games hasn't existed in well over a decade so I don't tend to expect much from them. You only need to do a casual runthrough of Sonic Forces to see how much their understanding of Sonic as a game has decayed.

At the same time, I don't think the solution is to make the franchise something it isn't, so I've never been able to get as excited by "W"s like the movie as everyone else. Every time I see people pondering Boom's potential as a POLISHED Jak and Daxter clone I wince a bit, and if shows like AOSTH, SATAM, the OVA and X had "questionable" characterization of Sonic, the film completely destroys it. They got cheered on for it by the very same fanbase that's been analyzing his body language in Sonic Colors for the past 10 years, too.

Strange times. "At least there's Mania." Or..at least there was Mania, anyway.

All this time, these comics have been a bright spot for me. They don't always "get it". But they're enthusiastic about the original games in a way that's genuine. You can't ask for much more than that these days.

[Sonictrainer]

Cover A for Imposter Syndrome #1

[Kuzu]

Sonic is a franchise that's so at odds with itself most of the time that its kind of asinine to pin his successes one region or another, but fans are going to cling to whatever fits in line with their preferences regardless of how contradictory it is, hence why fans will be like "Fuck Iizuka" (and by extension, SOJ) one week, but then felliate Shiro Maekawa because he makes everyone into stock Shonen archetypes that people loved as kids. People hate American Sonic, but oops, Americans made Mania, the movie and the like so they're cool.

 

Sonic isn't one consistent thing from one region and everyone's got their own interpretations and preferences as far as its concerned, even among the creative staff who work on him.

 

 

So I thinks its stupid to try and pin the series down like that, but this fanbase is so desperate for any Sonic product to be good, they'll do as much mental gymnastics as possible to justify things and turn it on it next week.

[IWriteAlright]

1 hour ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

Man people just love any excuse they can get to go "man fuck those japanese", right? You're really going from "the best Shadow content lately is the Japanese exclusive story written online" to "those Japanese don't know what they're doing" at the drop of a dime because SoJ got mentioned? Boy, can't let go that Tom Kalinske got told to take a hike 30 years ago because he was the genius and the techniques used by SoA were the perfect ones and truly there was nothing wrong that wouldn't crash after a few years because they were toy-selling, immediate-result-at-cost-of-duration techniques seen in a dozen other fad toys in America!

To speak for  myself i'm not saying this. For example, I do think the best shadow content was a story written online thats story's shadow is still not as good as he once was. I still hold my opinions that whoever is in charge of some of the characterizations , like shadow being weird , sonic being boring weird restrictions around knuckles ect. are bad no matter where they come from. This is just provide context because people were previously speculating all sorts of things.
Some people speculated that the mandates weren't even real and Ian flynn and Evan Stanley were lying. It isn't because SOJ got mentioned, its because the writer of the book said in plain English the mandates that he get for this specific thing is from this place. That's it, doesn't mean anymore or less than that besides how we feel about and a lot of people aren't fond of aforementioned mandates.

That doesn't mean I think the west is some bastion of sonic understanding either. They were the ones who orchestrating sonic boom. If you are aware of why sonic boom came into existence, that sonic was no longer popular in the west, comes from a misunderstanding of what was going on at the time and now.  Not to mention as mentioned above that sonic boom was derivative and uninteresting as all get out. Not just games to , I'm actually not fond of the meme-ier elements they take to on twitter. I don't like that they twitter referenced the shadow/kill la kill meme because that anime sexualizes underage individuals and assault , and they saw fit to reference this. I don't like the parasocial relationship the twitter takes with its audience , and the individual community mangers too. I personally think its unhealthy and has let young people to defend bad actions like letting Colors Ultimate out in the state that it was where as it had a glitch that could cause seizures
No one is saying " screw the Japanese " no one said this no one implied this

However they get their directions on this thing from japan, this isn't great. This company has a history of occasionally being out of touch and disregarding things and that might be happening again. That's it.

And I don't think anyone here was thinking about Tom Klinske or had thought about him for quite some time.

35 minutes ago, Wraith said:

There are people that understand Sonic all over the world, so I don't tend to lock his success to a specific culture or region anymore. The SoJ that gave us those classic games hasn't existed in well over a decade so I don't tend to expect much from them. You only need to do a casual runthrough of Sonic Forces to see how much their understanding of Sonic as a game has decayed.

At the same time, I don't think the solution is to make the franchise something it isn't, so I've never been able to get as excited by "W"s like the movie as everyone else. Every time I see people pondering Boom's potential as a POLISHED Jak and Daxter clone I wince a bit, and if shows like AOSTH, SATAM, the OVA and X had "questionable" characterization of Sonic, the film completely destroys it. They got cheered on for it by the very same fanbase that's been analyzing his body language in Sonic Colors for the past 10 years, too.

Strange times. "At least there's Mania." Or..at least there was Mania, anyway.

All this time, these comics have been a bright spot for me. They don't always "get it". But they're enthusiastic about the original games in a way that's genuine. You can't ask for much more than that these days.

Question, are not fond of the films characterization of sonic? Or are you saying that it is better at it " Destroyed " it ?

[Wraith]

5 minutes ago, IWriteAlright said:

 

Question, are not fond of the films characterization of sonic? Or are you saying that it is better at it " Destroyed " it ?

I do not like Sonic's characterization in the movie. I don't think it understands anything about what makes the character appealing and it doesn't even make much sense in it's own right.

[Kuzu]

I'm kind of conflicted about Movie!Sonic; he doesn't really resemble his video game self at all, but I can't say with confidence that Sonic's game personality would be all that appealing on the big screen.

Also ya know, Movie!Sonic is actually allowed to emote like an actual person.

 

 

So I dunno. I'd say he's good for what he is, but not really an accurate portrayal of Sonic.

[Soniman]

There's so many portrayls of this character I wasn't opposed to a more "vulnerable" version that eventually grows into the character we know. I don't dislike that Sonic but I definitely want to see him more in line with what we're familiar with (well WERE familiar with given the games aren't great at it either) in the sequel 

[IWriteAlright]

Ok. I view him more favorably. He seems interesting and vulnerable to me. But even so I understand why some might think that way, and there are qualms that I have with the characters presentation. For me how his powers manifest themselves bother me. But thank you for clarifying @Wraith

I agree that while the comics aren't perfect, they are mostly trying some things I wish they would try a bit harder or at all, but they are trying which is more than a lot these days. But, I think this is a bit unfair to the film? I believe the film is actually trying. While yes the first films entire plot seems ripped from the pages of every buddy cop fish out of water scenario from the past 30 years down to the same use of the front facing sitting down in a car whilst drying scene. That was dictated by people above the created process and despite all this managed to get out something that while unlike what sonic was before managed to create something that was genuinely appealing , worked for kids and most importantly for myself, felt like something the character genuinely needed.

As stated above, sonic gets to feel and emote and that's interesting! He's been missing that, and I personally think the same is going to happen to whoever else shows up. I don't think liking this is contradictory or hypocritical as you and someone others have implied, its speaking to something the sonic series has needed for quite some time. Change that isn't based on removing things, or replacing things but rather adding things that fill the holes in stories/characterization ect. Even on a gameplay level I think that's why mania resonated with so many it felt like something that had been missing.

I think the film is trying and I don't think the people who dislike sonic colors but like the film have some selective bias, but rather see the film had been trying something that worked. Because it was born despite all the issues it had out of people who wanted to create something interesting rather than just remove things. Because that's what a lot of sonic colors was, the removal of a great many things.

I suppose the point to this is , sometimes it isn't about making sonic what it is, but about making it what it could be. And I think personality wise, the film version of him is something to aspire to.

In before the second movie is bad and terrible all of the characters are awful and I regret writing all of this

 

[Wraith]

I don't really have anything to add here except that I disagree.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Seems more like you guys are getting old, and can’t take alternate takes very easily from how you remembered years ago. It’s alright, it a hurdle all of us go through every once in a while.

[Empire88]

1 hour ago, Sonictrainer said:

Cover A for Imposter Syndrome #1

Seems like it will be connecting covers as the artwork looks cutoff on the right with water (I am guessing from Kit).

[Mauro Fonseca]

Sonic emoted just fine in Adventure, Adventure 2, X, Unleashed, Secret Rings, etc. Movie Sonic isn't "Finally, Sonic's allowed to emote!", it's Hollywood-esque "We have to flatten everything into the most digestible understood shape possible, and people only understand a character's emotions if the character is acting in this specific way that the thousand other movies we make already show characters emoting like". It's exactly the same kind of flattening of nuance that turns Tails into Jimmy Neutron (he's a kid and smart!) or Knuckles into a moron who can't read (he's strong and gullible thus stupid as a door!) except praised because a lot of the fanbase seems to feel they're consuming something more grown up if characters are openly going "I AM CRYING" and announcing their emotions for ease of understanding.

[Wraith]

22 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Seems more like you guys are getting old, and can’t take alternate takes very easily from how you remembered years ago. It’s alright, it a hurdle all of us go through every once in a while.

You can scroll down on this very board and see me arguing for more alt universe Sonic content. I've been a big fan of the OVA since I was a kid. I've defended Sally's right to exist multiple times from the most strict 'jp Sonic scripture only' people on this board. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not against alternate interpretations.

I'm against Sonic being more like everything else. That's it.

What I'm seeing instead is the same snarky pushback I get when I scrutinize Colors, Or Boom, or the Twitter takeovers, or whatever Sonic thing is popular with mainstream critics/social media but mysteriously doesn't have any staying power.

You guys got giddy that you had a good show dog. You saw Sonic gain a couple of shreds of that mainstream acceptance you all want so badly and settled. I don't care what anyone thinks so I'm not going to do that. I'm going to call a spade a spade.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

13 minutes ago, Wraith said:

You can scroll down on this very board and see me arguing for more alt universe Sonic content. I've been a big fan of the OVA since I was a kid. I've defended Sally's right to exist multiple times from the most strict 'jp Sonic scripture only' people on this board. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not against alternate interpretations.

I'm against Sonic being more like everything else. That's it.

What I'm seeing instead is the same snarky pushback I get when I scrutinize Colors, Or Boom, or the Twitter takeovers, or whatever Sonic thing is popular with mainstream critics/social media but mysteriously doesn't have any staying power.

You guys got giddy that you had a good show dog. You saw Sonic gain a couple of shreds of that mainstream acceptance you all want so badly and settled. I don't care what anyone thinks so I'm not going to do that. I'm going to call a spade a spade.

I wasn’t directing that post at you, Wraith…

Edit: Adding more to this, the same snarky push back you get when scrutinizing Colors or Boom is the same snarky pushback that’s been going on for years prior to that when shit like “Green Eyez” went mainstream beyond the fandom.

So again, a case of people getting old and not taking these alternate takes the way they used to remember them. Not really anything you haven’t already seen before that you’re calling out now.

[Soniman]

31 minutes ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

Sonic emoted just fine in Adventure, Adventure 2, X, Unleashed, Secret Rings, etc. Movie Sonic isn't "Finally, Sonic's allowed to emote!", it's Hollywood-esque "We have to flatten everything into the most digestible understood shape possible, and people only understand a character's emotions if the character is acting in this specific way that the thousand other movies we make already show characters emoting like". It's exactly the same kind of flattening of nuance that turns Tails into Jimmy Neutron (he's a kid and smart!) or Knuckles into a moron who can't read (he's strong and gullible thus stupid as a door!) except praised because a lot of the fanbase seems to feel they're consuming something more grown up if characters are openly going "I AM CRYING" and announcing their emotions for ease of understanding.

Dick measuring over which version of the wise cracking blue Hedgehog you prefer like this never leads to anything good.

Like chill out. No one is dumb or shallow for enjoying one of the 20 versions of this character you didn't. I don't even see that many people championing movie Sonic as the paragon of what the character should be nor is it used as a way to decry how he's been portrayed in the past and Hollywood "finally got it right", people just enjoyed it for what is was and moved on. Some liked the more vulnerable take on the character some did not. Some like the more aloof Sonic in X some did not. Some like Sonic being a massive dick bag in fleetway and some did not, Some like the deadpan snarky Sonic in Boom some did not, I can go on but you get the point. 

[Kuzu]

Gotta love the barely concealed contempt for the "normies" for "ruining" Sonic being expressed here.

I don't exactly gell with public opinions either, but Sonic being popular with the mainstream isn't a bad thing, unless you think a series gaining that type of reputation and recognition is a bad thing for not catering to the often specified tastes of a fandom that can barely agree on what this series even is anymore. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Gotta love the barely concealed contempt for the "normies" for "ruining" Sonic being expressed here.

Kuzu, when has this fandom ever concealed its contempt for “normies?”
 

Or rather, when new things attract new fans? It’s been that way since Shadow started gaining ground as a character.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Cover A for Imposter Syndrome #1

Okay, seeing their designs side by side, I can see why Surge has the colors she does.

49 minutes ago, Mauro Fonseca said:

Sonic emoted just fine in Adventure, Adventure 2, X, Unleashed, Secret Rings, etc. Movie Sonic isn't "Finally, Sonic's allowed to emote!", it's Hollywood-esque "We have to flatten everything into the most digestible understood shape possible, and people only understand a character's emotions if the character is acting in this specific way that the thousand other movies we make already show characters emoting like". It's exactly the same kind of flattening of nuance that turns Tails into Jimmy Neutron (he's a kid and smart!) or Knuckles into a moron who can't read (he's strong and gullible thus stupid as a door!) except praised because a lot of the fanbase seems to feel they're consuming something more grown up if characters are openly going "I AM CRYING" and announcing their emotions for ease of understanding.

Woah, scathing hot takes we got hear!

Like, I know what you're talking about, but wow that was a burn

[Kuzu]

19 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Kuzu, when has this fandom ever concealed its contempt for “normies?”
 

Or rather, when new things attract new fans? It’s been that way since Shadow started gaining ground as a character.

I know I'm old because goddamn I'm so tired of this shit lmao. 

[Meta77]

Sonic with different takes is always a good thing as it helps a series from getting stale. Sort of like having Eggman for a boss EVERY single game. BUT at the same time you get bad takes with the good. The "dark ages" as some call it. I just say the adventure era days were fun. But most of that came from SOJ but sega being sega likes to constantly try new things regardless if good or bad. Say for instance of the story. Like that sonic takeover? Well be prepared if in the future that comedy is what the games consist of in the future. Sort of like Teen Titans Go. Sort of like with how Forces turned out. It should have been a war story or like the zombot arc with the stakes at the end. But never ONCE in that game did you ever feel like you had lost or were losing. Stages were so bright and colorful I would have thought eggman simply said he conquered the world rather than doing anything.