Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[DabigRG]

11 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Does it even apply to IDW Sonic? Wasn't there that guy who made Whisper's wispon?

 

11 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I think he was less of an "inventor" and more of a "blacksmith".

I completely forgot about that.

4 hours ago, StaticMania said:

I'm glad Tangle is only superficially like Amy, there may have been a problem

Too bad Tangle is rather what you see is what you get. Guess I just assumed she either modified it herself or that the Wisps can indeed enter any Wispon they want.

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Sonic has inspired almost every character in the series, its not really out of the realm of possibility that he continue to do that. I think you're looking at things that aren't actually there, and conflating things about Amy that hasn't actually happened? Amy's never had a moment like Tangle had in Issue 24, ever. So how can you call her "stealing Amy's moment" when when it was never a thing Amy ever did!!!?? So basically, you dislike Tangle for "stealing" things from Amy in spite of the fact that Amy herself never did any of that stuff to begin with. 

This is the same faulty logic fans use when they say shit like "Shadow stole Knuckles' role as Sonic's rival". Bottom line is, Tangle is a realized version of the type of character you see Amy as and that bothers you. I get it, but it is what it is to me. Tangle is an original character that the writers can actually do things with, while Amy will always be limited by what Sega allows. It's not really fair to blame Tangle for "stealing" anything because it was never something that was stolen? 

Like, characters can play similar roles in a narrative and yes, sometimes other characters will play that role better. Its how writing works, things will progress and get better over time. In a couple of years, there might be another character who does Tangle's role better. 

That was more or less Amy's thing, though, particularly in 06 and Unleashed.

 

It's honestly about characterization more than role, which both characters are actually kinda light on.

37 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Amy in Sonic 06, when told Sonic would cause the end of the world. 

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Amy in Unleashed, when the planet seemed utterly doomed. And after Sonic saved it.

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Tangle when Sonic blames himself for the Metal Virus. 

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Yeah, Amy has totally never done anything like that before. Tangle's words were absolutely not the exact things Amy would say, and should've been able to say to Sonic.

 

 

Looking at it again, I think the main difference is that Amy is primarily full of hope in the moments while Tangle comes across as tougher. Dare I say, "a REAL kick butt female"  Sonic character? Hahahakillme 

 

11 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Does it even apply to IDW Sonic? Wasn't there that guy who made Whisper's wispon?

 

11 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I think he was less of an "inventor" and more of a "blacksmith".

I completely forgot about that.

4 hours ago, StaticMania said:

I'm glad Tangle is only superficially like Amy, there may have been a problem

Too bad Tangle is rather what you see is what you get. Guess I just assumed she either modified it herself or that the Wisps can indeed enter any Wispon they want.

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Sonic has inspired almost every character in the series, its not really out of the realm of possibility that he continue to do that. I think you're looking at things that aren't actually there, and conflating things about Amy that hasn't actually happened? Amy's never had a moment like Tangle had in Issue 24, ever. So how can you call her "stealing Amy's moment" when when it was never a thing Amy ever did!!!?? So basically, you dislike Tangle for "stealing" things from Amy in spite of the fact that Amy herself never did any of that stuff to begin with. 

This is the same faulty logic fans use when they say shit like "Shadow stole Knuckles' role as Sonic's rival". Bottom line is, Tangle is a realized version of the type of character you see Amy as and that bothers you. I get it, but it is what it is to me. Tangle is an original character that the writers can actually do things with, while Amy will always be limited by what Sega allows. It's not really fair to blame Tangle for "stealing" anything because it was never something that was stolen? 

Like, characters can play similar roles in a narrative and yes, sometimes other characters will play that role better. Its how writing works, things will progress and get better over time. In a couple of years, there might be another character who does Tangle's role better. 

That was more or less Amy's thing, though, particularly in 06 and Unleashed.

 

It's honestly about characterization more than role, which both characters are actually kinda light on.

37 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Amy in Sonic 06, when told Sonic would cause the end of the world. 

  Hide contents

 

Amy in Unleashed, when the planet seemed utterly doomed. And after Sonic saved it.

  Hide contents

 

Tangle when Sonic blames himself for the Metal Virus. 

  Hide contents

Yeah, Amy has totally never done anything like that before. Tangle's words were absolutely not the exact things Amy would say, and should've been able to say to Sonic.

 

 

Looking at it again, I think the main difference is that Amy is primarily full of hope in the moments while Tangle comes across as tougher. Dare I say, "a REAL kick butt female"  Sonic character? Hahahakillme 

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

34 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

I thought I remember Ian saying something along the line of "comic need to reflect stuff introduced in-game" in one of the recent Bumblekast...but I don't want to listen through them again so...*shrug*. Still, I doubt Sega would go out of their way to import a character from an on-going series as part of the main cast only to retcon/change the core part of said character.

“Reflecting” the games is not the same as being the games—Archie Sonic heavily reflected the games more and more as Ian took over and even more so when the reboot occurred. But it still wasn’t the games.

Even if it’s more mandated to reflect the games more closely, I would expect the same for IDW in that it’s kept separate as well, especially given that it has elements that even the games never bothered with: Super Neo Metal Sonic, anyone? Warp Topaz? And don’t get me started on the Metal Virus.

 

34 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

Another problem for Mimic is given how the recent Sonic games work, it's gonna be hard to give him the focus he needs when he's Whisper's archenemy. He has almost zero interaction with the main cast and he's not exactly a good fighter, at least in Sonic game standard. He's more fit for the comic than a speed-based platformer, and a mini-boss (I imagine a "find the real one" type of minigame) rather than an actual Sonic boss.

If Mimic were to be brought into the games, I’m not sure how they’d pull of his betrayal and antagonism to Whisper without going much the same route. But ability-wise, it’s not so difficult to buff him to make him a decent match much like how they did Sally with wrist mounted laser swords to fight with.

[Sega DogTagz]

Smithy was presented as more than a blacksmith. On top of developing all of the teams weapons, he's also the one who developed the masks each team member wore, which doubled as a Wisp translator - (Something Tails struggled with back in Colors). Whisper referred to him as a genius.

Sega broke their own taboo on mechanics/techies anyway. DoDonpa was presented as being on a whole nother level beyond both Tails and Eggman when it came to building vehicles and energy generation. And that's before we are left to ponder what kind of tech he has that allowed him to both time travel to reach out to Silver and jump dimensions to locate Blaze. 

 

[DabigRG]

17 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Does it even apply to IDW Sonic? Wasn't there that guy who made Whisper's wispon?

Kkk

It's honestly about characterization more than role, which both characters are actually kinda? Hahahakillme

[DabigRG]

6 hours ago, Kuzu said:

These are all extremely superficial comparisons and I feel like you're reaching quite a bit to make a point. Like Wraith said, you could literally rewrite the scene to feature Amy, but that's not the point. Any character could have been written for that scene.  It's a Tangle moment because it takes place in her hometown and she's keeping on a brave face because she knows that she's literally about to die. 

You're so focused on the similarities between the characters and completely ignoring their differences; besides the fact that she's not in-love with Sonic, Tangle is a much more physically orientated fighter, she's not as emotionally mature as Amy and prone to literal claustrophobia when confined in small spaces. 

There a plenty of differences between the characters, so I don't understand why you're so laser focused on a single moment and conclude that they're exactly the same character.

Pretty sure the crux of Kanine and Skull's complaint is how Amy wasn't able to be characterized the way she used to for a while and so Tangle's similar moment jumped out to them as, "Now wait just a minute here...!"

It's less them being the same type of character overall and more taking issue with one getting a moment to shine that the other was being denied(including the previously discussed scene with Cream), which ended up looping to the question.

6 hours ago, Kuzu said:

It makes no logical sense whatsoever. It's like if I said because Espio, Rouge, and Blaze have similar color schemes, they are therefore the same character. 

Espio, Rouge, and Blaze play very different roles and have more fundamental noticeable differences in how they behave, react, and prioritize; same thing goes for Rough, Tumble, and Starline compared to Bean, Bark, and Snively, who appear to play the same role but with considerable differences in every regard that matters.

By contrast, Tangle is so much like Sonic superficially and Amy where it counts that it's doubtful she'd be able to truly stand out beyond having more clout in previous games anymore than she does among the other comic originals when it comes to what stories can be told with her.

 

And ultimately, Tangle's main problem within the comic has always been that she's never really been able to do much of anything to influence a story on her own merits.

 

 

[Kuzu]

But like you just said, they're superficial comparisons. There are fundamental differences too, which was my entire point.

Tangle and Amy have two entirely different functions and roles, even if they do have some overlap, but that's literally inevitable because this series already has so many recurring characters to begin with.

 

Amy doesn't have a hometown she's trying to defend, Amy is a bit more thoughtful about her actions, and she doesn't have to put on a show of bravdo. Nothing Tangle has done applies to Amy beyond an extremely superficial level, and at that point, you could apply that to literally every character.

 

Like I said, y'all are looking for something that's not there. If you're annoyed at Tangle for having traits you associate with Amy then I don't really know what to say. I've never really associated anything from Tangle with Amy. They're two characters who have a few similarities but ultimately have two different niches.

Now if the annoyance is more because Amy rarely fulfills her niche, then that's understandable but that doesn't have much to do with Tangle.

[Kazhnuz]

Amy and Tangle are similar, but like Shadow, Knuckles, Silver (initially) and Blaze are similar (kinda-introverted serious character focused on a "mission" and that personnalities can lead to fight with Sonic). On a broad sense they have similar elements, but it's the details of their personnalities that create their identities, and that make in a similar scene, each would give a different flavour to the scene.

Tangle got a moment that Amy could get. But to be fair, Tails could have got this moment too (IIRC, when he got a similar moment in Archie, wasn't Amy AND Tails the one doing it ?). Heck, even Cream in some context could get "angry" at Sonic and do the pep talk (add on the top a reference to how he saved his mother). In a different style, Sally would do it in a setting where she is here. Even rivals character could do it, again in a different style. Doing pep talk and being enthusiast about Sonic isn't only Amy's thing, and a lot of character can have this role, nearly any kind character that have some kind of link to Sonic. Tangle gave this quite common role in her own way, and Amy had her own plotline (becoming head of resistence, and understanding it's not for her - which is certainly an accident, but an happy one, it's nice having a character in a story for kids having this lesson) instead of being a part of Sonic's plotline.

Here, the fact that give a different flavour if Tangle says it and if Amy says it is that Tangle is quite more "rash", and that she doesn't have a crush on Sonic (it doesn't make it better or worse, but it changes the perspective of the action). So I don't think Tangle really stole anything from Amy, she just had a role that is common with her. In other condition, Amy could have done a similar pep-talk. Maybe such a situation will happen (it had happen in the Mecha Sally arc), maybe not.

 

( And I would say the whole idea of a *character* stealing a scene to another is strange to me, but that's another story )

[MetalSkulkBane]

I guess it's kinda character starvation? You know, like getting angry when your favorite character doesn't get into Smash, so you point at someone who *stole* his spot. Or accusing Omochao of stealing a slot from Cream in Team Racing. Personally I understand the feeling one could have, but ultimately the only logical course of action is to accept it and move on.

I was angry that Shadow went down as a angry jerk, rather then martyr. And then Vector had pretty much what I wanted from Shadow. And I understand Flynn's logic: he can't give exactly the same "death" to every character, gotta keep things varied. So in a way I could accuse Vector of stealing Shadow cool scene.
But nah, that's just silly. Shadow has no emotional relation to Charmy. Would not give that touching little nod to Espio. Scene just worked better for Crocodile, no matter how much i would prefer otherwise.

[Kuzu]

And like I said, I get that. People are starved to see their favorite characters do anything significant, particularly since they've been neglected for so long.

But that still doesn't justify trying to twist logic and accuse other characters of "stealing moments". 

I'm not trying to tell people how they should feel, because I know its easy to form an emotional attachment to your favorite characters and get frustrated when they don't get the chance to shine you think they deserve, but jeez lol, relax its not that serious. 

Amy is literally having a starring role in this arc right now, so just wait and see what happens with her.

[Wraith]

I don't even "get it" in that case because Amy has gotten more focus than most SEGA characters in this book.

[Mauro Fonseca]

re:functions- smithy is dead. pretty sure that helps with "don't make other inventors that will clutter and overshadow tails and eggman".

dodonpa is shown to be entirely focused on cars, just like how wave is to extreme gear. again not overshadowing tails and eggman, who're universal in application.

 

edit: forgot to add this is just my guess from seeing how things are placed. if you want a frame of reference for "don't have multiple characters" etc etc, compare to egmont's rules on disney comics where ludwig von drake can't be used because they consider gyro gearloose already fits his role (nevermind that's not quite true)

[MetalSkulkBane]

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I don't even "get it" in that case because Amy has gotten more focus than most SEGA characters in this book.

There is a fine line between quantity and quality.

Remember Archie Reboot? Sonic used to drag army of friend on every adventure and often they did nothing worth noting. Take Tails. Aside for very beginning and Championship, can anyone tell me what he did? Memorable scene, cool moment, being useful? He had plenty of screen time.

Meanwhile Omega had only 3 SU arcs with Shadow, Knuckles, Amy, Rouge and Eclipse having more focus than him. But he still stole the show by dialogue and action.

So in IDW while Amy had plenty Screentime, she had little Awesometime. Personally i could point few things I enjoyed, but only issue 2 was "highlight" of her character.

I mean, she beat a lot of badniks, but so what? What loser in this comic didn't got to destroy a single badnik... oh right, Shadow.

[Wraith]

7 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

There is a fine line between quantity and quality.

Remember Archie Reboot? Sonic used to drag army of friend on every adventure and often they did nothing worth noting. Take Tails. Aside for very beginning and Championship, can anyone tell me what he did? Memorable scene, cool moment, being useful? He had plenty of screen time.

Meanwhile Omega had only 3 SU arcs with Shadow, Knuckles, Amy, Rouge and Eclipse having more focus than him. But he still stole the show by dialogue and action.

So in IDW while Amy had plenty Screentime, she had little Awesometime. Personally i could point few things I enjoyed, but only issue 2 was "highlight" of her character.

I mean, she beat a lot of badniks, but so what? What loser in this comic didn't got to destroy a single badnik... oh right, Shadow.

This has been a problem with a few characters but not Amy imo. To me she's been great so I guess I'll just agree to disagree.

[Kuzu]

Character stans are almost never satisfied man. Tails literally gets a starring role in every arc and you still have some people saying he's "neglected".

It's such a subjective issue that's different for everyone. Some people are satisfied when their favorite just shows up, while others want them to pretty much be on the same level of stardom as Sonic.

[Kaotic Kanine]

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Pretty sure the crux of Kanine and Skull's complaint is how Amy wasn't able to be characterized the way she used to for a while and so Tangle's similar moment jumped out to them as, "Now wait just a minute here...!"

It's less them being the same type of character overall and more taking issue with one getting a moment to shine that the other was being denied(including the previously discussed scene with Cream), which ended up looping to the question.

 Yes! This is the gist of my complaint. Thank you, RG.

Amy's most famous moments in the games, outside of glomping hedgehogs, were her heartfelt speeches to Gamma and Shadow in SA1 and SA2; getting them to see the error of their ways (or more accurately for Gamma, to develop empathy for the Critters and start thinking for itself rather than blindly obeying Eggman) and managing to get them to switch sides from evil to good. And Amy's thing has always been encouraging others and keeping hopes up in the face of despair, as well as having the utmost faith in Sonic, as displayed in the linked videos. So needless to say, I've been wanting for Amy to have such moments again. Especially with Sonic since, for as much as everyone complains about Amy needing to be away from Sonic, she doesn't actually have that many interactions with him to begin with. Let alone ones as meaningful as her moments with Gamma and Shadow, which is confounding for a character who is more-or-less the female counterpart to Sonic himself, is a main cast member alongside him, and is his love interest (even if mostly one-sided).

Reboot!Archie had the perfect opportunity for such a moment when Sonic was flipping out from transforming into the Werehog for the first time but Amy just had to share that event with Sally, who of fucking course had to hog most of the moment and leave Amy with bit parts at best. So then Issue 24 comes around with Sonic at his lowest: feeling defeated and exhausted for the first time, blaming himself for the whole thing and not being able to protect his friends, and who's the character who raises his spirits with heartfelt words about his good intentions and knowing he'll save the day in the end? Not the character who has delivered such words to different characters in past games, but by another fucking canon foreigner who is insanely new. So you can kind of see where my outrage is coming from. 

And yeah, Amy's moment with Cream in Issue 22 also annoyed me for a similar reason; Amy should've been the one reinvigorating Cream's hopes and spirits, not the other way around. That's the dynamic they had in Heroes and Sonic X, and works with their respective characteristics. Unlike Skull, however, I don't blame Cream for that moment playing out as it did. Rather, I am angry with Ian Flynn for having the moment play out like that, in major part due to him characterizing Amy as a Sally-esque figure getting beaten down by the burdens of leadership rather than the plucky girl who maintains hope in even the direst circumstance that she always was. 

Quote

There a plenty of differences between the characters, so I don't understand why you're so laser focused on a single moment and conclude that they're exactly the same character. It makes no logical sense whatsoever. It's like if I said because Espio, Rouge, and Blaze have similar color schemes, they are therefore the same character. 

1. I am not blind to the fucking differences. I'm aware that there are differences between Tangle and Amy. I'm pointing out that there are more similarities than differences that go beyond personalities and calling out that one moment as the straw that broke the camel's back, for reasons I detailed above. 

2. Oh, now who's reaching quite a bit to make a point? Comparing my issue with Tangle's many similar characteristics to Amy's own with "These characters have similar color schemes, therefore they are all the same"? I've fucking pointed out why Tangle is a little too similar to Amy: 

-Both are fangirls of Sonic who lived mundane and boring lives before getting caught up in an adventure with him. 

-Both became inspired from that aforementioned experience to become adventuring heroes, for both thrills and desire to help people. 

-Both are highly energetic and passionate girls with the frequent tendency to glomp others (much to their discomfort), running about enthusiastically, and rousing spirits. 

-Both are the more physically-oriented fighters of the female characters. Cause let's not forget that Amy wields a god damn hammer, and has utilized it for some serious acrobatics. What part of that is less physical than Tangle's stretchy tail and own acrobatics? 

That's a bit further than "similar color schemes". And if you're gonna be like that to me, then consider all the respect I have for you to be gone. 

I will concede that Tangle's role is very much different from Amy's, and she is a great deal wackier. Thing to keep in mind is that Amy's characterization from the Adventure Era, wherein Amy's role went beyond just "girl who chases Sonic" to "Average girl out to become her own hero", is my preference for her. And Tangle seemed to be taking over that role while Amy was being fitted into Sally's role. 

But, I should stress again, I'm not blaming Tangle herself for this. I'm not claiming she stole from Amy nor twisting logic to that end (at least, not consciously trying to do that). All my issues with Tangle lie with the writers and the writing, at why they decided to let events play out like this and shit. I want to like Tangle, and honestly I think I'd have no issue with her if she wasn't most prominent when Amy was seemingly being made into the new Sally. Like, if Amy was characterized how she was in SA1/Heroes/Unleashed in IDW from the get-go while Tangle's character was intact, I'd see the differences more and take no issue. But things didn't play out like that and so I took issue. 

But of course now Amy is being characterized to how she normally is in IDW, and since then have started to warm up to Tangle. I was really just agreeing with DabigRG when he pointed out how Tangle comes off like "another Amy" more than not, then you dismissed my response, and things escalated from there. 

[CertifiedNobody]

8 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Sega broke their own taboo on mechanics/techies anyway. DoDonpa was presented as being on a whole nother level beyond both Tails and Eggman when it came to building vehicles and energy generation. And that's before we are left to ponder what kind of tech he has that allowed him to both time travel to reach out to Silver and jump dimensions to locate Blaze. 

 

The rules only apply to licensed media like the cartoons or comics. Sonic Team and other game devs can pretty much do whatever they want.

[SkyHorizon]

6 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

-Both are fangirls of Sonic who lived mundane and boring lives before getting caught up in an adventure with him. 

-Both became inspired from that aforementioned experience to become adventuring heroes, for both thrills and desire to help people. 

You are also describing Tails with a description this bland.

 

7 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

-Both are highly energetic and passionate girls with the frequent tendency to glomp others (much to their discomfort), running about enthusiastically, and rousing spirits. 

 

When I read this, I see Tangle, certainly not Amy.

 

7 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

-Both are the more physically-oriented fighters of the female characters. Cause let's not forget that Amy wields a god damn hammer, and has utilized it for some serious acrobatics. What part of that is less physical than Tangle's stretchy tail and own acrobatics? 

 

Hyper-specific description and completely unrelated to their personality, that's precisely like saying "they have the same color scheme". And it also describes Honey the Cat.

 

Honestly, you're trying way too hard, it's getting ridiculous...

[Kuzu]

 

26 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

 Yes! This is the gist of my complaint. Thank you, RG.

Amy's most famous moments in the games, outside of glomping hedgehogs, were her heartfelt speeches to Gamma and Shadow in SA1 and SA2; getting them to see the error of their ways (or more accurately for Gamma, to develop empathy for the Critters and start thinking for itself rather than blindly obeying Eggman) and managing to get them to switch sides from evil to good. And Amy's thing has always been encouraging others and keeping hopes up in the face of despair, as well as having the utmost faith in Sonic, as displayed in the linked videos. So needless to say, I've been wanting for Amy to have such moments again. Especially with Sonic since, for as much as everyone complains about Amy needing to be away from Sonic, she doesn't actually have that many interactions with him to begin with. Let alone ones as meaningful as her moments with Gamma and Shadow, which is confounding for a character who is more-or-less the female counterpart to Sonic himself, is a main cast member alongside him, and is his love interest (even if mostly one-sided).

Reboot!Archie had the perfect opportunity for such a moment when Sonic was flipping out from transforming into the Werehog for the first time but Amy just had to share that event with Sally, who of fucking course had to hog most of the moment and leave Amy with bit parts at best. So then Issue 24 comes around with Sonic at his lowest: feeling defeated and exhausted for the first time, blaming himself for the whole thing and not being able to protect his friends, and who's the character who raises his spirits with heartfelt words about his good intentions and knowing he'll save the day in the end? Not the character who has delivered such words to different characters in past games, but by another fucking canon foreigner who is insanely new. So you can kind of see where my outrage is coming from. 

And yeah, Amy's moment with Cream in Issue 22 also annoyed me for a similar reason; Amy should've been the one reinvigorating Cream's hopes and spirits, not the other way around. That's the dynamic they had in Heroes and Sonic X, and works with their respective characteristics. Unlike Skull, however, I don't blame Cream for that moment playing out as it did. Rather, I am angry with Ian Flynn for having the moment play out like that, in major part due to him characterizing Amy as a Sally-esque figure getting beaten down by the burdens of leadership rather than the plucky girl who maintains hope in even the direst circumstance that she always was. 

1. I am not blind to the fucking differences. I'm aware that there are differences between Tangle and Amy. I'm pointing out that there are more similarities than differences that go beyond personalities and calling out that one moment as the straw that broke the camel's back, for reasons I detailed above. 

2. Oh, now who's reaching quite a bit to make a point? Comparing my issue with Tangle's many similar characteristics to Amy's own with "These characters have similar color schemes, therefore they are all the same"? I've fucking pointed out why Tangle is a little too similar to Amy: 

-Both are fangirls of Sonic who lived mundane and boring lives before getting caught up in an adventure with him. 

-Both became inspired from that aforementioned experience to become adventuring heroes, for both thrills and desire to help people. 

-Both are highly energetic and passionate girls with the frequent tendency to glomp others (much to their discomfort), running about enthusiastically, and rousing spirits. 

-Both are the more physically-oriented fighters of the female characters. Cause let's not forget that Amy wields a god damn hammer, and has utilized it for some serious acrobatics. What part of that is less physical than Tangle's stretchy tail and own acrobatics? 

That's a bit further than "similar color schemes". And if you're gonna be like that to me, then consider all the respect I have for you to be gone. 

I will concede that Tangle's role is very much different from Amy's, and she is a great deal wackier. Thing to keep in mind is that Amy's characterization from the Adventure Era, wherein Amy's role went beyond just "girl who chases Sonic" to "Average girl out to become her own hero", is my preference for her. And Tangle seemed to be taking over that role while Amy was being fitted into Sally's role. 

But, I should stress again, I'm not blaming Tangle herself for this. I'm not claiming she stole from Amy nor twisting logic to that end (at least, not consciously trying to do that). All my issues with Tangle lie with the writers and the writing, at why they decided to let events play out like this and shit. I want to like Tangle, and honestly I think I'd have no issue with her if she wasn't most prominent when Amy was seemingly being made into the new Sally. Like, if Amy was characterized how she was in SA1/Heroes/Unleashed in IDW from the get-go while Tangle's character was intact, I'd see the differences more and take no issue. But things didn't play out like that and so I took issue. 

But of course now Amy is being characterized to how she normally is in IDW, and since then have started to warm up to Tangle. I was really just agreeing with DabigRG when he pointed out how Tangle comes off like "another Amy" more than not, then you dismissed my response, and things escalated from there. 

I still don't see it man, so I'm just gonna agree to disagree since this is clearly more important for you than it is for me.

[Wraith]

wrt "what would IDW characters add to the games" Sonic team develops gameplay concepts first with narrative being secondary, so Tangle's worth to the games can't be judged entirely on how unique of a personality she is. You have to think about how they might impact the playing experience too, from either a protagonist role or a secondary one.

[Empire88]

23 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

The rules only apply to licensed media like the cartoons or comics. Sonic Team and other game devs can pretty much do whatever they want.

Yes. A lot of the rules are just so licensed products don't get out of hand and things stay in focus. For a licensed product they don't want them to have Sonic to have an origins story for example because SEGA want to be the one to do it. 

[CertifiedNobody]

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

wrt "what would IDW characters add to the games" Sonic team develops gameplay concepts first with narrative being secondary, so Tangle's worth to the games can't be judged entirely on how unique of a personality she is. You have to think about how they might impact the playing experience too, from either a protagonist role or a secondary one.

Aren't all of them designed from a gameplay perspective anyways?

[Kuzu]

Well Tangle and Whisper certainly are designed from a gameplay perspective.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Kiiiiinda.

I mean, Whisper would be fun to play, but not in fast pace platformer like Sonic. I think we had enough experience proving that guns don't work too great in Sonic. Even in Forces they just kinda a gimmick.

Whisper is more of a Mega Man.

[FlameStream]

Well, there is a side in the community that thinks things would benefit from being a slower game. But admittedly, it would be a game with less Sonic.

[Sonictrainer]

New cover for IS