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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread


Dejimon11

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16 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I actually wonder if world building new locations that will never affect anything from the games would be a problem.

I'm sure they can make self-contained locations. But establishing more about the wider world like the UF, GUN, or Animal Society might step on SEGA's toes, even if they have no plans to do it themselves.

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11 minutes ago, Slashy said:

It is what the games have operated on most of the time. Hell in the history of the franchise the only media to be heavily serialized was the comics as even Sonic X was primarily made up of monster of the week plots even in the Metarex arc (though heavily downplayed).

Sure the games might be so self-contained now that they may as well exist in continuites but let's not pretend that there was any real attempt at an ongoing plot pre-Colors beyond Shadow's story.

I agree, but Shadow was the breakout star of that era for a reason. His story was the only major thorough line connecting those games together and made investment for players to keep buying more games to see what happens next.

 

Hell, Sonic X's third season, the one with the season long story arc, is generally considered to be the best one.

 

Episodic storytelling is perfectly fine mind you, but I think there's a general expectation from the readers and writers to make a more serialized story.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

I agree, but Shadow was the breakout star of that era for a reason. His story was the only major thorough line connecting those games together and made investment for players to keep buying more games to see what happens next.

The thinnest of connective threads, executed terribly. Anyone who thought they were getting in on a "serialized epic" because of that made a big mistake.

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2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

That and I think that's just how Western comics are published. They have to keep readers invested to buy the next issue on a monthly basis. Hence why almost every issue ends in cliffhanger. Its by design.

Because there’s going to be somebody to say it, that’s mostly an American comics thing. The European Disney comics more specifically the Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck stuff all have their own self contained stories and people can jump in at any point. There’s also Asterix as well.

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3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The thinnest of connective threads, executed terribly. Anyone who thought they were getting in on a "serialized epic" because of that made a big mistake.

Shadow is divisive for a reason.

 

Still, consistency is somewhat infamously something the Sonic series struggles to maintain, so it goes both ways.

 

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43 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The thinnest of connective threads, executed terribly. Anyone who thought they were getting in on a "serialized epic" because of that made a big mistake.

I never said it was good. Just that it kept people invested. 

We're 30 years into this series dude, you should be well aware of what Sonic fans are willing to put up with to get their fix.

39 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Because there’s going to be somebody to say it, that’s mostly an American comics thing. The European Disney comics more specifically the Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck stuff all have their own self contained stories and people can jump in at any point. There’s also Asterix as well.

Figured as much. American comics are designed to go perpuity yet keep reader interest.

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2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Hell, Sonic X's third season, the one with the season long story arc, is generally considered to be the best one.

 

By who? 😅

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6 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I mean the comic is structuring itself like the games, so its pretty relevant imo.

Last I checked, the games sidelined most characters not named Sonic or Tails away from most of the action, didn’t prioritize storytelling, and threw development out the window. So there’s some pretty heavy differences between how the games and the comics structure themselves.

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1 hour ago, SkyHorizon said:

By who? 😅

A lot of people genuinely like Sonic X. Most of the time they’re usually talking about the Japanese version not 4kids dub

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28 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Last I checked, the games sidelined most characters not named Sonic or Tails away from most of the action, didn’t prioritize storytelling, and threw development out the window. So there’s some pretty heavy differences between how the games and the comics structure themselves.

Sonic & Tails are literally the most consistently appearing characters in the book, just like in the current games; Knuckles has been MIA after the first story arc aside from a cameo at the end of the Metal Virus saga, and Amy is only NOW the center of her own arc after playing a supporting role for most of the series. And everyone else kind of just comes in and out as needed. 

And like, I don't think I need to tell you about whole shitstorm surrounding how Shadow is written in this book that fans are still complaining about to this day. 

Like, there's certainly greater effort on part of the creators and none of this is saying that IDW hasn't been putting in work despite its mandates, but I can't really say that its on the same level as what Archie was doing pre or post-reboot. 

 

To put it simply; Archie felt like a world that Sonic just so happened to live in along with the rest of the cast, not every single major event revolved around him even if he was deeply involved and sometimes, he was completely irrelevant. 

IDW by comparison feels like the entire setting revolves around Sonic; the villains` plans are centered around him, and Sonic is the one who handles every major problem that shows up, and is generally the centerpiece of the heroes who comes up with the plans and directs everyone's actions. Which is exactly how the games are nowadays. 

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Sonic the game series has always tried to have it both ways. They reference the previous games and Sonic's growing stable of allies to appease long term fans but all that ever does is draw attention to how little they actually care about the details. They don't actually commit to clean breaks like Zelda, they don't pay off long running threads in new titles like Metroid, and they don't play it loose enough for Sonic to be a 'Mickey Mouse' type of character that can do whatever he wants without any expectations like Mario. It's a weird in-between that doesn't actually make anyone happy.

The comic is going for serialized storytelling because that's what the team knows how to do and that's what the expectation is for the book.
 

 

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41 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Sonic & Tails are literally the most consistently appearing characters in the book, just like in the current games; Knuckles has been MIA after the first story arc aside from a cameo at the end of the Metal Virus saga, and Amy is only NOW the center of her own arc after playing a supporting role for most of the series. And everyone else kind of just comes in and out as needed. 

And like, I don't think I need to tell you about whole shitstorm surrounding how Shadow is written in this book that fans are still complaining about to this day. 

Like, there's certainly greater effort on part of the creators and none of this is saying that IDW hasn't been putting in work despite its mandates, but I can't really say that its on the same level as what Archie was doing pre or post-reboot. 
 

And yet the comics aren’t sidelining the other characters not named Sonic and Tails, are prioritizing storytelling, and have a degree of development on other characters beyond tired clichés like teamwork and friendship.
 

Sonic and Tails are often assisted by others than just themselves. Knuckles may be on a bus, but we’re still seeing action from characters like Amy and Shadow. The effort in storytelling is leagues more structured and fleshed out than that of what the games have put out since arguably Colors. And we see layers to these characters psychology that doesn’t get touched on as much from the games—from Sonic’s moral code, to Whisper’s trauma at the loss of her comrades.

It may not be Archie, but it still stands out from how the games are structured.
 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

 

And yet the comics aren’t sidelining the other characters not named Sonic and Tails, are prioritizing storytelling, and have a degree of development on other characters beyond tired clichés like teamwork and friendship.
 

Sonic and Tails are often assisted by others than just themselves. Knuckles may be on a bus, but we’re still seeing action from characters like Amy and Shadow. The effort in storytelling is leagues more structured and fleshed out than that of what the games have put out since arguably Colors. And we see layers to these characters psychology that doesn’t get touched on as much from the games—from Sonic’s moral code, to Whisper’s trauma at the loss of her comrades.

It may not be Archie, but it still stands out from how the games are structured.
 

 

 

I mean, the main point I wanted to make is that I wish it wasn't more like the games as they are now. It's completely fine for what it is, but it feels like Sega of Japan's meddling is holding this series back from better things...that we have seen in Archie lmao. 

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20 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I mean, the main point I wanted to make is that I wish it wasn't more like the games as they are now. It's completely fine for what it is, but it feels like Sega of Japan's meddling is holding this series back from better things...that we have seen in Archie lmao. 

In all fairness, SoJ probably is holding it back. It could certainly do a helluva lot more than it currently is.

But it’ll take Paramount levels of negotiations to get something more than what we have now.

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I am going to say something that I have said in other communities, but I will say it here. Sonic should be handled like Doctor Who, mainly the classic era or 9,10  13 runs. I am fully aware how weird this sounds but it actually sounds less weird when you think about it, hell it has some similarities with Post-Reboot Archie, but with very few rules.

For the unintiated the Doctor goes to new locations with companions in his time and space traveling device the TARDIS and goes to some random time and place, encounters some kind of problem ,solves it, and leaves.

This approach makes perfect sense for Sonic who is a vagabond, and Tails who loves to travel around in his Tornado.

I think this approach might be the best way to accommodate many fresh ideas with new locations, characters, and mythology. Team Sonic and occasionally Eggman serve a vital role on giving us something familiar while the stories regularly delve into the unfamiliar. With a focus on each arc being self-contained with locations and characters that are designed not to define or change anything about the brand there is a very real chance that more things can get through the approval process.

This formula fits the series so well that in some ways I am surprised it hasn't been done before, though Prime seems to be hinting at doing something like it.

Spoiler

 

 

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13 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

In all fairness, SoJ probably is holding it back. It could certainly do a helluva lot more than it currently is.

But it’ll take Paramount levels of negotiations to get something more than what we have now.

I think the whole Penders debacle scared them and made them way less open to differing interpretations. Which I get, but Ian and Evan I feel respect the series enough to stay within familar territory while giving something unique. Ian in particularly stayed very close to Mega Man's origins but managed to flesh out the original setting in a way the games never did.

That's what I want from a Sonic comic; to take what's generally ignored in the games and build on it. I actually liked how the book gave an explanation on why the real Metal Sonic wasn't around and I wish started from scratch so it could do the same for the other games. 

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8 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I am going to say something that I have said in other communities, but I will say it here. Sonic should be handled like Doctor Who, mainly the classic era or 9,10  13 runs. I am fully aware how weird this sounds but it actually sounds less weird when you think about it, hell it has some similarities with Post-Reboot Archie, but with very few rules.

For the unintiated the Doctor goes to new locations with companions in his time and space traveling device the TARDIS and goes to some random time and place, encounters some kind of problem ,solves it, and leaves.

This approach makes perfect sense for Sonic who is a vagabond, and Tails who loves to travel around in his Tornado.

I think this approach might be the best way to accommodate many fresh ideas with new locations, characters, and mythology. Team Sonic and occasionally Eggman serve a vital role on giving us something familiar while the stories regularly delve into the unfamiliar. With a focus on each arc being self-contained with locations and characters that are designed not to define or change anything about the brand there is a very real chance that more things can get through the approval process.

This formula fits the series so well that in some ways I am surprised it hasn't been done before, though Prime seems to be hinting at doing something like it.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I'd be up for them trying this but the structure you're pitching means that anyone that's not Sonic, Tails or Eggman wouldn't appear much at all. I'm not sure if the Sonic fandom as it is now would tolerate that. This book is some of the only content the extended cast gets now.

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2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'd be up for them trying this but the structure you're pitching means that anyone that's not Sonic, Tails or Eggman wouldn't appear much at all. I'm not sure if the Sonic fandom as it is now would tolerate that. This book is some of the only content the extended cast gets now.

Honestly if I was going to commit to it I would expand the core cast and add Amy and Cream as core members.

And a 5th member that would be a wild card. If SEGA let me I would throw in Vanilla just to justify Cream constantly traveling the world. The core cast would need to be highly flexible given all the plots they would he thrown into. I would like Knuckles there too but SEGA doesn't want him too active.

Team Dark, Chaotix, and Team Resistance would be recurring characters.

 

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1 minute ago, Slashy said:

Honestly if I was going to commit to it I would expand the core cast and add Amy and Cream as core members.

And a 5th member that would be a wild card. If SEGA let me I would throw in Vanilla just to justify Cream constantly traveling the world. The core cast would need to be highly flexible given all the plots they would he thrown into. I would like Knuckles there too but SEGA doesn't want him too active.

Team Dark, Chaotix, and Team Resistance would be recurring characters.

 

I mean, if you're gonna add Cream, you kind of need to actually give her a relationship with Sonic lol. That's one of the biggest pitfalls about that character, she has no...real dynamic with Sonic...or Tails for that matter. 

 

Good luck trying to convince the fanbase for not using guys like Knuckles and Shadow tho.

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Five characters feels like too many to me. I think the book had a good thing going introducing Tangle as a sort of "new reader" surrogate and would probably make it about the three of them (Sonic, Tails and Tangle. Two characters that are familiar with heroism and one that's new.) traveling together. Amy has a way of finding Sonic so she could show up sometimes, Knuckles has a way of getting roped into things, everyone else would be used sparingly since I want to prioritize new adventures.

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3 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I mean, if you're gonna add Cream, you kind of need to actually give her a relationship with Sonic lol. That's one of the biggest pitfalls about that character, she has no...real dynamic with Sonic...or Tails for that matter. 

 

Good luck trying to convince the fanbase for not using guys like Knuckles and Shadow tho.

Shadow wouldn't go around to random civilizations to ever come across the kind of conflicts that Team Sonic would.

Knuckles is only not present because I don't think SEGA wants him tagging along on random adventures. The Master Emerald needs to be at stake for him to bother.

Cream is a tagalong friend the only possible limitation is her being a six year old who seems to want to make sure to be home before supper.

The only thing I would beg for SEGAs approval is to let me do more with Vanilla. Though the biggest thing I would want for her to be is a historian/culture expert because it would be too much even for Tails to expect him to be familiar with all of that.

 

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6 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Shadow wouldn't go around to random civilizations to ever come across the kind of conflicts that Team Sonic would.

Knuckles is only not present because I don't think SEGA wants him tagging along on random adventures. The Master Emerald needs to be at stake for him to bother.

Cream is a tagalong friend the only possible limitation is her being a six year old who seems to want to make sure to be home before supper.

The only thing I would beg for SEGAs approval is to let me do more with Vanilla. Though the biggest thing I would want for her to be is a historian/culture expert because it would be too much even for Tails to expect him to be familiar with all of that.

 

We're talking about a fandom that throws a fit any time their fan favorites aren't on screen in almost every arc; like I said, it's an uphill battle, not with Sega, but just generally getting fan approval. I like it though, it's fresh. 

To be honest, five is the magical number for main characters tbh, especially in an action-adventure series; you get 10 different character dynamics and potential story arcs focusing on different configurations, and everyone has their own unique dynamic with each other. The Classic "Five Man Band"

That said, as mentioned, that means shunting off the rest of the recurring supporting characters to keep things focused on our group. To be honest, I think Sega only considers Sonic and Tails as the actual core characters of the series nowadays, but there's only so much you can pull from only two characters as the central focus. 

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6 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Shadow wouldn't go around to random civilizations to ever come across the kind of conflicts that Team Sonic would.

He would actually. That's why they conveniently end up in the same place so often. He's a wanderer, like Sonic. His new "search for strong opponents" motive gives him even more of a reason. 

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4 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

We're talking about a fandom that throws a fit any time their fan favorites aren't on screen in almost every arc; like I said, it's an uphill battle, not with Sega, but just generally getting fan approval. I like it though, it's fresh. 

To be honest, five is the magical number for main characters tbh, especially in an action-adventure series; you get 10 different character dynamics and potential story arcs focusing on different configurations, and everyone has their own unique dynamic with each other. The Classic "Five Man Band"

That said, as mentioned, that means shunting off the rest of the recurring supporting characters to keep things focused on our group. To be honest, I think Sega only considers Sonic and Tails as the actual core characters of the series nowadays, but there's only so much you can pull from only two characters as the central focus. 

The other alternative that might be more popular is to keep Sonic, Tails, Amy and define every season by who else joins the group.

It could be one major bit of continuity that rings true with each season and also force certain characters to suddenly be way more important. Like say one season adds Rouge to the group and then every story in that season has Rouge.

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4 minutes ago, Razule said:

He would actually. That's why they conveniently end up in the same place so often. He's a wanderer, like Sonic. His new "search for strong opponents" motive gives him even more of a reason. 

Shadow's thing is that he never really sticks with a group for too long and just opts to do his own thing. Especially nowadays when they seem to have committed to him just being a loner. I could see him showing up sporadically to play a major role, but I can't see him being around full time without something forcing him there. 

1 minute ago, Slashy said:

The other alternative that might be more popular is to keep Sonic, Tails, Amy and define every season by who else joins the group.

It could be one major bit of continuity that rings true with each season and also force certain characters to suddenly be way more important. Like say one season adds Rouge to the group and then every story in that season has Rouge.

I think that would go over much better, though you'd probably still have some people raising eyebrows of where's Knuckles. For better or worse, Sega generally market the four them as the main characters even if that never reflects the games or media. 

 

I'm down for just the group find and adventuring new lands though; maybe the occasional visit to old locations to keep that familiarity. 

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