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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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2 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

When do you think we can get a second book? (Universe or Classic Sonic)

Probably 2 years in with the Main book. I hope they let it 2nd book be similar to Universe.

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Whew, finally caught up after being offline almost all week and surprisingly not much new. So I guess I can make my comments short then...

First up is this

On 7/20/2018 at 12:17 PM, Marco9966 said:

Official picture for Whisper:

37585461_10215576969564557_7014539582804

which I was actually expecting to show up at SDCC so no surprise there. Looking at Whisper though I feel she is a bit over-designed for a sonic anthro but it works really well with her mask as long it's down so I'll give it a pass for now. Also, between her being a wolf, having a wispon that can use multiple types of wisps, and talk about her using Forces Avatar pieces in her design leaves me wondering if she's going to be a proxy to the Avatar which I actually would kind of like. Seeing how the comics will adapt the Avatar is one of the things I hoping will be done sooner rather than later, though I won't get my hopes up since that usually backfires for me.

On the issue 7 spoilers

Spoiler

I don't mind the Sonic Heroes direction too much as it actually works to give Sonic a foe to fight and forces for Eggman to reclaim once he's done playing at being Mr. Tinker. My only problem is I prefer Metal's normal design almost indescribably way more than his Neo design so having to deal with that will be a down point for me. That is if the spoilers are legit so I could be worrying about nothing in the end, but knowing my luck...

 

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1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Also, between her being a wolf, having a wispon that can use multiple types of wisps, and talk about her using Forces Avatar pieces in her design leaves me wondering if she's going to be a proxy to the Avatar which I actually would kind of like. Seeing how the comics will adapt the Avatar is one of the things I hoping will be done sooner rather than later, though I won't get my hopes up since that usually backfires for me.

 

To entertain this line of thought for a bit, I think she could be part of small trend to have different aspects of the Avatar represented by different characters. Tangle really only has the Audience Surrogate thing, while Whisper has the design, clothing, and equipment aspects incorporated. And Lanolin possibly not withstanding, there may later be a character that represents the timid civilian perspective down the road. 

With all that said, no, I doubt that is actually the intent. In fact, they will most likely just use Buddy the Wolf if they need to reference him.

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Spoiler
4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Neo metal sonic > original

I disagree. He feels over-designed and cluttered design-wise and personality he no longer feels like Sonic which to me at least is an important aspect of what makes Metal so enjoyable.

 

6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To entertain this line of thought for a bit, I think she could be part of small trend to have different aspects of the Avatar represented by different characters. Tangle really only has the Audience Surrogate thing, while Whisper has the design, clothing, and equipment aspects incorporated. And Lanolin possibly not withstanding, there may later be a character that represents the timid civilian perspective down the road. 

This is a fairly intriguing line of thought and makes me wonder if  some artists squeezing in their OCs as background characters is in response to the door opened by Forces to do so, i.e; putting your character officially into Sonic's world. Even considering that though, considering Forces' ending with the Avatar heading off to pretty much do what Sonic is doing at the beginning of the IDW comic, I really want to actually see the IDW world version of Buddy/Gadget/Partner/Aibou/Rookie. Admittedly though I'd be pretty happy just getting the default promotional wolf since that's what I went with, but just having them introduced into the world would really help my immersion and belief that we are following up Forces.

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5 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:
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I disagree. He feels over-designed and cluttered design-wise and personality he no longer feels like Sonic which to me at least is an important aspect of what makes Metal so enjoyable.

 

I really want to actually see the IDW world version of Buddy/Gadget/Partner/Aibou/Rookie.

I have a completely different opinion, I don't wanna see that at all, as it defeats the purpose of Forces in the first place, to make US create OUR own character. Why would we wanna see a version of Buddy that is not ours in the comics?

Buddy's mission is complete and he finished the war. The end.

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Yeah I believe Whisper is an expy for the Avatar, there are multiple things you mentioned that make it seem like the case, and I don't mind if they add a personality to her, the Avatar is a Forces exclusive feature, but they can make actual characters based off that.

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Just now, Drifting Jack said:

Yeah I believe Whisper is an expy for the Avatar, there are multiple things you mentioned that make it seem like the case, and I don't mind if they add a personality to her, the Avatar is a Forces exclusive feature, but they can make actual characters based off that.

They can take inspirations from different character elements here and there to make new characters to pay homage to the game.

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1 minute ago, Ernest-Panda said:

I’d have thought they’d be allowed to use Buddy/default-red-wolf-guy?

If they ever do that then they should have had the avatar be the red wolf by default and uneditable, and not someone we can create as we want.

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26 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

If they ever do that then they should have had the avatar be the red wolf by default and uneditable, and not someone we can create as we want.

But the red wolf was the character they used in all the promo material, including the reveal trailer.

Ergo, they could say “red wolf is the avatar’s canon form”.

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32 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

If they ever do that then they should have had the avatar be the red wolf by default and uneditable, and not someone we can create as we want.

But then we wouldn't really have the selling point of the game.

Not everything has to be strictly ironclad, Paul.

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51 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

I have a completely different opinion, I don't wanna see that at all, as it defeats the purpose of Forces in the first place, to make US create OUR own character. Why would we wanna see a version of Buddy that is not ours in the comics?

Buddy's mission is complete and he finished the war. The end.

Hmm, I guess it's more a matter that narratively if the games are cannon to the IDW comics but not the other way around then the existence of the rookie is a given and they are free to explore that however they want. Me personally though, not addressing it would just start to rub me the wrong way after too long since their involvement helped turn the tide of the conflict regardless of how cheesy that is.

An alternative way to look at it, consider that there are plenty of people out there who are glad to share their avatar creations regardless of whether or not that actually gels with someone else's viewpoint of the avatar. Even take MMOs like FFXIV where everyone is the singular Warrior of Light for example which is even more impossible in regards to the narrative. So, to put it simply, I'd like to see the character that is officially used by IDW to fill the avatar role in Forces. Though, to be fair, just a mention with a anonymous shadow would solve my desire to at least have their existence and role acknowledged. Though, considering their ability the question of why they aren't mentioned more often might come up which would work if played as kind of a tongue-in-cheek recurring inside joke that kind of breaks the fourth wall by acknowledging that the fans can't put their character directly in the comic. Though now I'm rambling so I hope my viewpoint hasn't been lost...

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10 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Hmm, I guess it's more a matter that narratively if the games are cannon to the IDW comics but not the other way around then the existence of the rookie is a given and they are free to explore that however they want. Me personally though, not addressing it would just start to rub me the wrong way after too long since their involvement helped turn the tide of the conflict regardless of how cheesy that is.

An alternative way to look at it, consider that there are plenty of people out there who are glad to share their avatar creations regardless of whether or not that actually gels with someone else's viewpoint of the avatar. Even take MMOs like FFXIV where everyone is the singular Warrior of Light for example which is even more impossible in regards to the narrative. So, to put it simply, I'd like to see the character that is officially used by IDW to fill the avatar role in Forces. Though, to be fair, just a mention with a anonymous shadow would solve my desire to at least have their existence and role acknowledged. Though, considering their ability the question of why they aren't mentioned more often might come up which would work if played as kind of a tongue-in-cheek recurring inside joke that kind of breaks the fourth wall by acknowledging that the fans can't put their character directly in the comic. Though now I'm rambling so I hope my viewpoint hasn't been lost...

The avatar is mentionned in issue 1, Sonic says "I knew someone who makes good use of this wispon".

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He no longer feels like sonic. What in the world.  neo is the exact same 5hing as metal outside having a Cape and a white streak on his head and his ability to talk. He still wants to prove he's better than sonic, and neo doesnt always run into walls

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4 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

The avatar is mentionned in issue 1, Sonic says "I knew someone who makes good use of this wispon".

Had to go back and read it and boy did I misread that line. For some reason I felt like it was an equivalent line to the one from the one Unleashed boss fight since the weapon of choice was the cube hammer and it was at a time when I was really having Amy's hammer and use of it as part of her character being forced down my throat so I might have been projecting. Conversely, it also shows how difficult it can be to use a throw-a-way line in a way that is easy to remember and serves as an acknowledgement. Perhaps had he been told to just pull the trigger on the Burst Wispon I might have better made the connection at the time. Thanks for pointing it out, though it doesn't satisfy my curiosity for how the IDW version of the Avatar would play, but that's just me.

Spoiler
8 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

He no longer feels like sonic. What in the world.  neo is the exact same 5hing as metal outside having a Cape and a white streak on his head and his ability to talk. He still wants to prove he's better than sonic, and neo doesnt always run into walls

I feel that asides from at the end when he reverts and is questioning why he can't beat Sonic he just doesn't seem right. Instead of a cocky and cool character with Sonic's body language and mannerisms but without the heart instead I am presented with with a T-1000, melodramatic evil overlord style character who even turns into a monster of the week with almost no semblance to himself or what he is a copy of. To be fair though, like Sonic he is relying on Sonic's friends to beat his counterpart so there are still some things that could work but the execution leaves me feeling like there was something wrong. Even today I can still easily feel the disappointment I felt when I first got to the Final Story of Heroes and didn't get to fight "Metal Sonic". Call me strange or delusional if you want, I'm used to it, but to me Metal is at his best when he takes everything that Sonic is from mannerisms to ability and turns it back on Sonic. It gets even better for me when I consider just how larger than life Sonic's abilities are typically presented making Sonic's battles against himself so much more engaging and thrilling since no one can really step in and save Sonic directly (Mania Adventures notwithstanding) forcing him to give it everything he has to come out on top.

 

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4 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

First up is this

which I was actually expecting to show up at SDCC so no surprise there. Looking at Whisper though I feel she is a bit over-designed for a sonic anthro but it works really well with her mask as long it's down so I'll give it a pass for now. Also, between her being a wolf, having a wispon that can use multiple types of wisps, and talk about her using Forces Avatar pieces in her design leaves me wondering if she's going to be a proxy to the Avatar which I actually would kind of like. Seeing how the comics will adapt the Avatar is one of the things I hoping will be done sooner rather than later, though I won't get my hopes up since that usually backfires for me.

Ah, that's what was bothering me. She isn't bad, but I couldn't figure out why I wasn't ookay with her as Tangle. 

All the detail in her clothes and accessories (plus the two-colored patch over here eyes) was a bit too much.

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That ...besides a finger wag and being fast metal is not that similar to sonic outside the ova. He uses energy beams. Electric dashes. Can fly, uses a giant machine in mania. Can transform into a more aggressive monster like form in choatix and mania. Again outside few examples does he fully act like sonic

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Neo Metal Sonic is among the worst designs to ever hit this series, alongside Mephiles.  He's overdesigned for the sake of looking "XTRA KOOL".

metal.thumb.jpg.c7536f98eb3a187009d0a0cf0eb60c50.jpg

Metal Sonic is just that: a metal Sonic.  Every feature of his is representative of a feature on Sonic.  Even his turbine is a stand-in for Sonic's peachy stomach.  All other details are just "he's a robot" stuff.

neometal.thumb.png.3904a28604bda580f849867ea64829df.png

NEO Metal Sonic...what even happened here.  His head is now as large as the rest of his body, for some reason, and his ears have been turned red because...yellow wasn't KOOL enough, I guess?  He has also applied some lovely white eyeliner because Shadow gave him some makeup tips.  His spines are LONGER than his arms and legs.  The bolts holding his mouthplate on are now spikes, because SPIKES ARE KOOL.  He is now dressed (???) like some kind of wizard, with pointy shoes (XTRA KOOL spikes included) and his simple arms and legs are now large sleeves and pant legs.  Best of all, he is wearing a studded belt with a butt cape and what appears to be a...robe tie or loin cloth?  There are other weird design choices here that aren't really offensively bad but just confusing like the white stripes on everything or the oversized turbine engine.

Opinions are opinions man, but I'm hard pressed to see how anyone could think this looked cool.  It looks like someone told me to draw a cool Sonic robot when I was 14.

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As far as the avatar goes, I think its in a similar position shadow's in in regards to forces. Where it feels like someone said to just not address that. And unlike shadow, its pretty easy to do because its a vague concept and could be anyone and the story of sonic forces could function with out an avatar so its totally fine. I guess they didn't want people upset that the avatar represented didn't represent the one they had made, or something like that. And with the avatar surrogate around you would kinda have to make it the default main character for a time and maybe they didn't want the focus off the sonic characters again. I dunno just speculation on my part. 

Shadow on the other hand is kinda weird even though its similar because he exists? The comic with him in it , upon reflection kinda seems like a bunch of people told Ian " Hey you can't reference shadow being in forces, at all even the weird plot hole where he's gone. And he can't reference him being in forces, you can't have people reacting to him in a forces like situation. Also sonic and shadow gotta fight in it "  And every single aspect of that comic is weird, and makes it feel like it doesn't matter. I would argue the situation with the avatar is a bit better in that regard. 

Both of these situations though make me feel like , the comic isn't gonna start mattering till we get past this " forces kinda just happened " phase

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*Neo Metal*

His ears have been altered to match his eyes so red and silver remain the prominent highlights up top. His turbine now sticks out as the only yellow anywhere on his design. The robe remains the main thing I like about his design, it summarizes his role in Heroes as not a functional combatant like his traditional form but a scheming emperor.

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2 hours ago, Jambone said:

Neo Metal Sonic is among the worst designs to ever hit this series, alongside Mephiles.  He's overdesigned for the sake of looking "XTRA KOOL".

metal.thumb.jpg.c7536f98eb3a187009d0a0cf0eb60c50.jpg

Metal Sonic is just that: a metal Sonic.  Every feature of his is representative of a feature on Sonic.  Even his turbine is a stand-in for Sonic's peachy stomach.  All other details are just "he's a robot" stuff.

neometal.thumb.png.3904a28604bda580f849867ea64829df.png

NEO Metal Sonic...what even happened here.  His head is now as large as the rest of his body, for some reason, and his ears have been turned red because...yellow wasn't KOOL enough, I guess?  He has also applied some lovely white eyeliner because Shadow gave him some makeup tips.  His spines are LONGER than his arms and legs.  The bolts holding his mouthplate on are now spikes, because SPIKES ARE KOOL.  He is now dressed (???) like some kind of wizard, with pointy shoes (XTRA KOOL spikes included) and his simple arms and legs are now large sleeves and pant legs.  Best of all, he is wearing a studded belt with a butt cape and what appears to be a...robe tie or loin cloth?  There are other weird design choices here that aren't really offensively bad but just confusing like the white stripes on everything or the oversized turbine engine.

Opinions are opinions man, but I'm hard pressed to see how anyone could think this looked cool.  It looks like someone told me to draw a cool Sonic robot when I was 14.

I think and still think this is a cool design. Which would one fear most seeing a figure standing on top of  a tower in a lighting storm neo with his cape and glow or chubby original metal. He looks good and plays outside the :safe: zone of lets keep metal basic cause well i can not think of why they would not change a design every now and again. it be like asking eggman to use the same mech every game instead of changing them up to you know meet the situation at hand. And the spikes being up is not a big deal if anything make them yellow and they remind me of super sonic cause you know his quills also point up and no one bats a eye (though its more for a dragon ball call out)

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