Jump to content
Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

 

LEAST fave
Sonic IDW 3,
Rough and Tumblr just aren't that engaging to see nor do they seem like interesting characters

 

They were mainly meant to be a pair of ruffian villains for the heroes to fight from time to time, with this introduction basically treating them as those bandit type characters you see in some anime.

With that said, one of the few problems I did have with this one is the fact that the two do seem a little interchangeable characterization-wise.

20 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

they remind me of the Deadly Six. (not a good thing)

 

I do get Zazz and a small bit of Zavok vibes from them, yes.

20 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

also the art is a bit lackluster in this issue. I cant really tell what it is, but it feels stiff. 

 

 

It kinda looks like an odd, licensed book based off Sonic Advance style art to me. 

There's also the fact that some of colors are either rather flat like markers or oddly shaded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

LEAST fave
Sonic IDW 3,
Rough and Tumblr just aren't that engaging to see nor do they seem like interesting characters , they remind me of the Deadly Six. (not a good thing) also the art is a bit lackluster in this issue. I cant really tell what it is, but it feels stiff. 

 

 

I think the problem is it's the first time Jen has inked her own work for a Sonic Comic so we got that weird bold inking. I honestly felt the art itself flowed pretty good from panel to panel and I'm fully in the minority here but I loved Heather's colors. They're so bright and vibrant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I think the problem is it's the first time Jen has inked her own work for a Sonic Comic so we got that weird bold inking. I honestly felt the art itself flowed pretty good from panel to panel and I'm fully in the minority here but I loved Heather's colors. They're so bright and vibrant.

Oh, I liked the brightness and generally style, too.

There were just a few moments where it looked it a little...sketchy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Oh, I liked the brightness and generally style, too.

There were just a few moments where it looked it a little...sketchy.

I hope she does her inks better in the annual or get an inker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

Can anyone pick anything out of this Bumblekast?

Dammit, I keep forgetting to listen to the episodes past Infinity War.

Also, that's Kyle? Huh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Play Smash!

Someone asked about dinosaur anthros and proxies of Archie characters.

Interestingly Starline (like Tangle and Whisper) was designed around a game mechanic, and is apparently one part of a trio that would make that game mechanic influence more apparent when they show up..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Play Smash!

Someone asked about dinosaur anthros and proxies of Archie characters.

Interestingly Starline (like Tangle and Whisper) was designed around a game mechanic, and is apparently one part of a trio that would make that game mechanic influence more apparent when they show up..

I skimmed to that part, and you're right! In fact, he stated that those two other characters were meant to debut alongside Starline, but due to revisions, they had to be put on the back-burner for now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Play Smash!

Someone asked about dinosaur anthros and proxies of Archie characters.

Interestingly Starline (like Tangle and Whisper) was designed around a game mechanic, and is apparently one part of a trio that would make that game mechanic influence more apparent when they show up..

Yeah, while the specific characters may be gone, the character archetype remains. Like Dr. Zachary. Finitevus, Ix, and Starline all come from that basic idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Yeah, while the specific characters may be gone, the character archetype remains. Like Dr. Zachary. Finitevus, Ix, and Starline all come from that basic idea.

Even better is that they still remain distinct despite the similarities and inspirations from one another.

Ix and Finitivus, for example, are both albino echidnas with great knowledge and power, and while they also have similar personalities, they have different agendas.

Ix wants to bring his Civilization back and re-start his world conquest, essentially more like Eggman but main for his people and has actual experience in ruling. Finitivus wants world destruction, “clensing it with fire” due to his disgust at how it’s become and seeks it to be reset.

Then their methods they go about matching with each until they diverge since they do a lot of manipulation involves their goals.

You can put these them in the same room and they’ll still differ among themselves due to their goals alone despite their similarities, but they still fit the same general character outline.

Starline seems to be more associated with Eggman than independent like Ix and Finitivus tho given that they care less about Eggman in their plans. Seems to almost add the spirit of an Egg Boss as well to set him apart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Even better is that they still remain distinct despite the similarities and inspirations from one another.

It's almost like they were created for three different continuities & purpose and that the things they have in common are rather common tropes.

But yes, I agree. :smile: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

It's almost like they were created for three different continuities & purpose and that the things they have in common are rather common tropes.

But yes, I agree. :smile: 

I mean, that’s kinda what I was emphasizing because I like that kind of distinction that makes them less like Expies. It makes the continuity irrelevant as they’re more independent of that—you can put them all in one place and they’ll still play within those strengths and purposes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I mean, that’s kinda what I was emphasizing because I like that kind of distinction that makes them less like Expies. It makes the continuity irrelevant as they’re more independent of that—you can put them all in one place and they’ll still play within those strengths and purposes.

Even better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so this point I'm about to make is more or less irrelevant and might have been covered at this point by someone else, but I've been having some irked feelings in regards to the Sonic and Shadow scenario back in the early bits of IDW Sonic (Issue 6 methinks it was?), especially in regards to Sonic's counterargument to Shadow wanting to off Eggman.

Now being frank, Sonic winning the argument by default is to be expected since Sonic can't ever be allowed to lose face or lose a fight, and freedom and mercy is great and all that, and I doubt Shadow would ever be allowed to be in a scenario where his more brutal philosophy would be seen in the right without some major concessions or some kind of backlash attached to it, especially since plenty of people would whine about it being too dark and edgy despite the fact that it would be a logical route to consider in a number of cases.

That said, it honestly feels like a false equivalence to say that Shadow's attempt to destroy the planet was somehow the same as Eggman's attempts to conquer the world in the past, and thus Eggman should be allowed to go free since he no longer remembers anything about his past evil self (and if the recent comics are any indicator, DOESN'T want to go back to being that), for a number of reasons:

1) Difference in motivations.

While it's admittedly a bit ambiguous as to how responsible Shadow is for his actions in SA2 (at least in regards to the whole killing all of humanity, and how much of it was Gerald reprogramming his mind and how much of it was Shadow's own desire), it's at least clear that he committed his actions for the sake of vengeance for his loved ones. It was over the top and extreme to be sure, but it was at least something that could be interpreted in a sympathetic light.

Eggman is unambiguous in his desire to conquer and force everyone to love him (OR ELSE) in a world spanning empire, and everyone who denies him this is to be eradicated. There MIIIGHT be a sympathetic element in that he MIGHT be a lonely man at his core, and his narcissism is just him trying to get the love he desperately craves or something, but it's only hinted at best and generally never impacts the majority of his decisions otherwise.

2) Difference in what the characters do and feel about it.

Shadow after his plan is enacted and the ARK plummets seems to have some sense of regret or resignation about what's about to happen, but isn't willing to do anything about it until he's convinced that what he's doing is the opposite of his dead friend's desires, and that he's been manipulated by his creator. He ultimately tries to fix his mistake.

Eggman...tries to take over the world later on after he fails his current plan, and almost never reflects on his actions and the aftermath of the damage he causes, showing a lack of care about what happens except how it impacts his ego.

3) Difference is how the characters change because of it.

Shadow is ultimately trying to atone or at least try to live up to Maria's true desires, even if his methods are far from perfect and sometimes unnecessarily brutal.

Eggman doesn't give a fuck and keeps on being gleefully evil with only occasionally sparks of self-awareness or regret about something, and it's usually narcissistic in some fashion.

 

And even NOT taking the above aside, it's still a bothersome element just by the simple fact that JUST BECAUSE EGGMAN CANNOT REMEMBER RIGHT NOW AND IS GOOD RIGHT NOW AS MR. TINKER, DOESN'T MEAN HE CAN'T POTENTIALLY REVERT BACK OR END UP BEING FAKING IT ALL ALONG. Both Sonic and Shadow had good points on paper, but it's all brushed aside for the sake of making Sonic in the right (and ignoring how dickish it is for Sonic to bring up Shadow's faux pas the way he did), and resulting in a rather hollow resolution.

Now that said, there is a way I think it could have been resolved that would have at least satisfied both parties and still moved the plot along in a natural manner: Put the village where he's staying at under discreet surveillance by the Chaotix. This solves a few points that I've seen pop up in some other forum poster's reviews of the current story arcs:

1) Gives Mr. Tinker the chance to live his life peacefully (and since he apparently does remember who he was, but didn't want to return to that life), but keep an eye on him in case he shows signs of Eggman returning, or it turns out he was faking all along.

2) Reduces the amount of characters needed to focus on for the Angel Island Arc, thus allowing for more focus on the remaining cast and to expand on the OCs like Tangle and Whisper.

3) Ensures that the Chaotix are allowed to still have a relevant role while also putting more emphasis on their strengths, and also possibly allowing for interaction with Mr. Tinker before the kidnapping.

4) Allows for a more seamless transition to Dr. Starline and the Rough and Tumble kidnapping, and their attempt to bring Eggman back.

 

3 & 4 in particular are important, because having the Chaotix at the village would allow for them to be developed separate from the big Resistance group in Battle Arc, and would allow them a chance to show more of their personalities when trying to keep an eye on Eggman, perhaps even come to realize that Mr. Tinker does remember but genuinely doesn't want to return to his evil self, allowing for character depth and exploration. Thus, once the Rough and Tumble duo attempt to kidnap him, there's a personal element to the whole thing as the Chaotix don't want to see a good person twisted back into evil.

Plus, it would also allow for a separate series of fights to occur, such as the Chaotix vs Rough and Tumble, allowing them to show off more of their abilities without being lost in the chaos of the battle against Metal Sonic. Then things could wrap up on their end with Dr. Starline making his debut and helping to defeat the Chaotix and kidnap Eggman, which the Chaotix would then either inform the main Resistance group about what happened before attempting to give chase, or Vector deciding to try to find where Starline took Eggman to using their team's detective skills out of anger, wounded pride, and personal concern for Mr. Tinker, thus again adding a personal element by the Chaotix feeling shame in their failure to guard him, and also allowing them to show off their best traits as unconventional detectives. And it ultimately adds an element of tragedy since they'll ultimately fail and Eggman will return.

I know this is a really late thing, but it's just something I need to get off my chest. It's too late for such a thing to happen now, but it's just my two cents.

What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

2) Difference in what the characters do and feel about it.

Shadow after his plan is enacted and the ARK plummets seems to have some sense of regret or resignation about what's about to happen, but isn't willing to do anything about it until he's convinced that what he's doing is the opposite of his dead friend's desires, and that he's been manipulated by his creator. He ultimately tries to fix his mistake.

Eggman...tries to take over the world later on after he fails his current plan, and almost never reflects on his actions and the aftermath of the damage he causes, showing a lack of care about what happens except how it impacts his ego.

That's the point, though. Sonic didn't just kill Shadow even though he was a bad guy trying to kill everyone, and Shadow ended up switching sides and becoming a force for good. And Sonic thinks even Eggman can be similarly redeemed, while Shadow denies the possibility, even though he himself went through it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

That's the point, though. Sonic didn't just kill Shadow even though he was a bad guy trying to kill everyone, and Shadow ended up switching sides and becoming a force for good. And Sonic thinks even Eggman can be similarly redeemed, while Shadow denies the possibility, even though he himself went through it.

 

To be frank though, that was more because they had bigger problems to deal with and we never exactly established where Shadow vanished to after the fight against Sonic until he showed up again for Amy to talk down. And frankly by the time time Shadow met up with Sonic again he had swapped sides so there wasn’t much reason for them to continue fighting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

 

To be frank though, that was more because they had bigger problems to deal with and we never exactly established where Shadow vanished to after the fight against Sonic until he showed up again for Amy to talk down. And frankly by the time time Shadow met up with Sonic again he had swapped sides so there wasn’t much reason for them to continue fighting.

Or, maybe, it is actually part of Sonic's basic worldview to not kill people?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Or, maybe, it is actually part of Sonic's basic worldview to not kill people?

Yeah it’s his worldview. So? Shadow didn’t exactly broadcast his true intentions until it had practically already been achieved, so while there was animosity due to the whole Shadow/Sonic mixup, their animosity was more irritation and eventual begrudging respect for each other.

Eggman has consistently shown a complete lack of remorse for his actions, hence why I don’t blame Shadow for thinking attempting to redeem him is pointless. I will acknowledge that Sonic isn’t the type of guy to kill others intentionally, so him conflicting with Shadow made sense, but my issue is how he tries to make Shadow and Eggman’s cases seem the same, when the above nuances I mentioned make a world of difference between the two, and thus it feels like a false equivalency.

i will note that Shadow did jump the gun at attacking Mr. Tinker, but this just ties back to my point about Shadow trying to do the right thing but often being too brutal or too extreme in his methods. It’s also why I mentioned everything else after the point you quoted; that was supposed to be a compromise between their views while still driving the plot forward. It gives Mr Tinker the chance to be redeemed of Eggman (satisfying Sonic’s view), while still ensuring that Eggman isn’t just being let off scot-free (satisfying Shadows side of things).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Riggo said:

Also, on Sonic’s “no-kill” policy—he really didn’t hesitate when killing King Arthur.

That's because SEGA is so inconsistent with his personality. One game is "Oh yeah! We're the Sonic Heroes!" to "Can't always be the hero every time!" It's so annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Or, maybe, it is actually part of Sonic's basic worldview to not kill people?

Sonic Has seen shadow canonically murder people and things. I think it was the whole memory thing

I do think there's a good story to mine where sonic doesn't want shadow to murder a guy , but shadow kind of has to murder a guy. ( that's where I think the eclipse thing was gonna go in the last book ). I just don't think this was done well... or really needed to be done at all. All in all the story doesn't matter and has no effect on how shadow handled things in the next fight...

 

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

That's the point, though. Sonic didn't just kill Shadow even though he was a bad guy trying to kill everyone, and Shadow ended up switching sides and becoming a force for good. And Sonic thinks even Eggman can be similarly redeemed, while Shadow denies the possibility, even though he himself went through it.

There's a difference here, and why the argument is bad is well. Its the reverse situation. Shadow was being manipulated with his memories, once that ended he reverted to who he was, which is generally a good dude, but kind of an asshole.Heck even when shadow lost his memories he was still a generally ok dude.  Eggman is on the opposite end of the spectrum, one knock on the head and he's back to business.

I don't think those things are comparable because shadow literally was being manipulated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

And even NOT taking the above aside, it's still a bothersome element just by the simple fact that JUST BECAUSE EGGMAN CANNOT REMEMBER RIGHT NOW AND IS GOOD RIGHT NOW AS MR. TINKER, DOESN'T MEAN HE CAN'T POTENTIALLY REVERT BACK OR END UP BEING FAKING IT ALL ALONG. Both Sonic and Shadow had good points on paper, but it's all brushed aside for the sake of making Sonic in the right (and ignoring how dickish it is for Sonic to bring up Shadow's faux pas the way he did), and resulting in a rather hollow resolution.

Both characters fully understood the stakes. Sonic pondered several times during the course of the issue if it was possible for the original Robotnik to bleed through and return to his evil ways. Sonic even assured Tinker at the end of the issue that he would be checking in on him - which was an obvious lampshade that he was going to keep tabs on the doctor to make sure he wasn't bluffing.

I think the part that you are missing, is that is all of that inflection is beside the point. To Sonic, It doesn't matter that there is a possibility for Tinker to revert. It doesn't matter how much pain and suffering he has caused over the years. Sonic has always acted in the moment. And at the moment, with what he was seeing and on the intuitions of Vector (who is undoubtedly one of the sagest characters in the series when it comes to hunches) - Tinker was not a threat.

Bringing up Shadows tribulations wasn't a dick move. It was a reminder that peoples past don't have to dictate their future. Sonic's flipped enough enemies into friends to know that, and its precisely why Shadow eventually relented.

 

And for all your talk of the narrative bending over backwards to make Sonic right... you do realize that his decisions will inevitably backfire right? The second Tinker becomes Eggman again, Shadow will come out smelling like hotel soap. In the long run - Sonic will be the one in the wrong, and he will be 100% okay with that, as should we.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.