Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Riggo]

I think there’s a bit of misconception about what counts as “filler”. Obviously, the definition can vary between people, but generally filler accomplishes nothing and/or is invalidated later. It’s something you can skip without losing anything. Filler =/= slow. Issue #12 isn’t something I’d call filler, it was a cool down period, which are pretty essential in writing if you want good pacing, Going from super intense action to super intense action leaves your audience with little time to breathe, and the opposite leaves them bored.

I’m not gonna claim to be a master writer or anything even remotely beyond “okay”, but when you’re writing, you generally want to slow down at each “threshold” of your story. For example, before the climax of Year 1, we got issue #9, which consisted of mostly character interaction before the story dove straight into the action for two issues. The same will presumably be the case toward the end of Year 2 as well—that’s just basic plot structure.

Even within individual issues this is generally how it works. Before the final confrontation there’s always a quick breathing period.

[Marco9966]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

What is motivating them?

What motivates Starline?

[Kuzu]

6 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I mean that it doesn't feel all that important to know these things. We're probably not going to be here too much and it feels like fluff to me. I don't get why this is such a big deal. They could have called it Windmill Hill Zone and it'd have the same effect. 

Also I'm sorry if it sounded like I was saying "don't criticize the book" I only meant that I was shocked at all the "It's meh" "Not much of an improvement" type posts because I thought it was really good and a strong start to year 2. If you think it wasn't that's fine its just kind of a surprise to me that it's getting a mostly negative response on here.

 

It's not even negative; its lukewarm if nothing else. Tepid, etc etc.

Like I said, if all you care about are character interactions and good art, fine. But a story needs more than that to garner interest beyond the fans

 

3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

What motivates Sarline?

Hell if I know, but I guess admiration?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Just now, Marco9966 said:

What motivates Sarline?

Having his name misspelled. He’s been called Starly, Starla, Starling, Sterling. And he’s mad. Oh so mad. He will have his vengeance by allying with Eggman, whose real name Robotnik has been called Buttnik, and who Eggman was an insult for years on end until he took it for his own.

 

That was a joke btw.

[SBR2]

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

What motivates Sarline?

He wants to be an evil doctor like Eggman...this has literally already been established.

Tangle is arguably the only character who maybe doesn't have a full motivation but even then the first year spent a good amount of time showing she likes to help and now wants to actually work at being a hero.

[Shadowlax]

I would like ... to say I enjoyed this comic. In isolation. I thought it was quite good, in fact a much better version of issue 6 in terms of concept and pacing and the fight. People doing battle somewhere while eggman or the true villain at the time is figuring out greater plans. Simple premise executed in a nice way

 

With context however, I do have a few issues . Mainly it feels very samey, even if it is done well.

35 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Here's the thing, this isn't a continuation of Archie. It's an entirely new storyline that takes place in a different universe.

So yea, you kind of need to establish your setting and characters to garner interest.

Because then it begs the question on why care about anything that's going on besides the art being pretty. If you aren't already a fan of Sonic, then this book isn't giving you much reason to stick around 

That's not saying the book is bad right now, but its painfully mediocre and by the books. There's nothing really interesting or gripping unless you're already a Sonic fan and just love character interactions. But good storytelling needs way more than just that.

I can't find myself disagreeing with this, that said maybe this is all newer and younger fans of sonic need? I have no clue

16 hours ago, StaticMania said:

The concept doesn't have to be fine, plenty of bad ideas can be "made" into something that works.

The Black Arms conceptually are stupid, Archie comics just made them interesting enough to overlook that.

I don't think they are stupid at all. I think they are kinda implemented poorly, but generally they are a pretty neat idea and if there's ever a 3d reboot , will be the one that's leaned on more

[Kuzu]

14 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I can't find myself disagreeing with this, that said maybe this is all newer and younger fans of sonic need? I have no clue

Here's the thing; you want to give kids a reason to stick around read every month. Have them garner interest in the world and ask questions.

A book that's just good art and witty dialogue will get boring real fast, even t younger viewers. 

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Here's the thing; you want to give kids a reason to stick around read every month. Have them garner interest in the world and ask questions.

A book that's just good art and witty dialogue will get boring real fast, even t younger viewers. 

While I'm inclined to agree there are and were plenty of shows/comics ect with little to no continuity whatsoever , about adventure, comedy or whatever that def work for people.

[StaticMania]

They don't lack continuity, the stories they tell are more episodic though. But even so, there's still world building...unless it's 100% comedic, then it doesn't matter.

[Shadowlax]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

They don't lack continuity, the stories they tell are more episodic though. But even so, there's still world building...unless it's 100% comedic, then it doesn't matter.

You are not incorrect yeah. I infact made the same argument when voicing my gripes with the sonic boom cartoon, so I do agree it needs something. But I guess, I know I agree, but I wonder if general audiences do? I guess only time will tell

[Dejimon11]

18 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

While I'm inclined to agree there are and were plenty of shows/comics ect with little to no continuity whatsoever , about adventure, comedy or whatever that def work for people.

The difference is this comic is about continuity and heavily references stuff that fans specifically will get. 

[Red Hot Jack]

48 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Just answering basic questions like Who, What, When, Where, Why and How would improve things.

It's not like I want an exposition dump on the world and characters, but building some of these things up would help investment.

Who are these characters?

What is motivating them?

When is all of this taking place?

Where in the world is it taking place?

Why is it happening?

How is it happening?

No XD

Okay when is it happening, but the lack of mystery is actually that's bugging me. The only thing we don't know is who Starline is and where he's from, his motives. I'm sure It'll be revealed next issue but I'm not sure I want that. I want more mystery and then answers because THAT is what keeps me coming back.

You are right, good characters and well written ones aren't enough alone. Needs more story, but there is one and it's Eggman and Starline's plot.

I would say there are positive opinions overall, on facebook, reddit, discord, people liked the issue. So I'm rather content as well by the reactions. And I do think kids are enjoying the book... Maybe, in fact it's the adults who are criticizing it. Nothing wrong with that though.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Dejimon11 said:

The difference is this comic is about continuity and heavily references stuff that fans specifically will get. 

yeah but what if they are just that?

[Kuzu]

I will praise one thing; Ian knows how to make Eggman truly frightening without changing a thing about him.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

56 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I will praise one thing; Ian knows how to make Eggman truly frightening without changing a thing about him.

I think it's because Ian understands how to underplay Eggman's nature to make it far darker through implication. 

SEGA has him literally as a giant goofball ham, and either has him too ineffective whilst playing up the haminess, or has to completely change the moment and Eggman's personality to actually represent him as "evil". Lost World for example has him needing to switch between cowardly running for his life, and then full-on deeply serious "As long as I can strangle the life out of a Zeti, I'm good" mode. It's still alright, Eggman is one of the better written characters of the series of course, but you can tell when there's meant to be a tonally goofy Eggman moment, and a deeply serious "evil moment".

Eggman in the comics is written a lot more like Dr. Neo Cortex from Crash Twinsanity, which intermixes both modes a lot more to play up both goofy, and full on evil Eggman. The games never has a moment where Eggman's goofy nature, and often times - childish ways of looking at things is used for a proper darker effect. Twinsanity for example has a moment where Crash looks like he's about to do a mini-game before Cortex out and out shoots the giver of the game, steals his maguffin, and out and out states that he's an evil scientist, what did they expect?

It works because Cortex just did something properly bad, even if in the player's favour, but then his goofy side has to come into play to point out the silliness of the scenario. Both Archie and IDW play around with this kind of Eggman a lot. 

This isn't a primarily IDW thing, but I still think the best example is this:

The ending of Scrambled fully went on this whole idea of Eggman being goofy, but also scarily confident, competent, and probably the scariest fact - able to think on his feet and employ his genius for last minute plans much like Sonic can work on impulse. It's all shown off perfectly at the end when Eggman has done something pretty horrifying, making a robotic double of Snively, using the fake to trick one of the few people who actually likes Snively to work for Eggman in his empire, and then locks Snively up on a deep dark corner of the Death Egg to wither away while being forced with the knowledge that his best wasn't enough, and no one will ever save him.

But then Eggman also treats the entire situation like some kind of kids game, like hide & seek or tag, gleefully mocking Snively for throwing his best shots at him, and still not doing enough, being also revealing Snively helped him plow through GUN's forces, and recapture some kind of control over the world, before leaving him alone in this dark room simply saying "Thanks for Playing". In my opinion, it's the perfect encapsulation of Eggman's nature, and a perfect combo of both sides. Yeah, Eggman is a giant ham, yeah he acts like a child, yeah he overacts and whatever else, but he's also a very efficient genius - not just mechanically, but methodically as well, capable of bending situations to his favour and employing last minute plans to his advantage, and when both sides cross over, it works to some pretty damn chilling effect. 

[DabigRG]

Sooo, how did Tumble connect nevermind control that new "tail"...?

Also, gotta appreciate the obvious backpedaling they did with the "worldbuilding." Sincerely and humorously.

19 hours ago, silvereye27 said:

I guess it is a shame that Sega is determined to bury parts of the past that failed, when a lot of it could work under a new writer.

To be fair, Mephiles is definitely less them deeming him a failure and more the high conditional stakes that were built into him. They themselves likely have little issue with him so much as just honoring what they did for the most part.

He was unlockable in Runners, for example.

[Heckboy]

I still maintain that Ian goes too far with Eggman's "darkness". Game!Eggman has his moments but 99% of the time he's cruel in a hands-off sort of way. Like he won't shoot Sonic point-blank but instead jettison him into space in an exploding escape pod. Whereas Ian's always written him more as an edgy Joker-type. "Yeah he's goofy but at the drop of a hat he'll fucking kill/torture you with his bare hands." Not to say that this is an invalid take on him, since it would work in some settings (i.e. SatAM or pre-SGW Archie where Eggman is Hitler-tier), but in a games-based world it kind of fucks up their more lighthearted dynamic since it begs the question, "If Eggman is so cruel why doesn't Sonic just try to take him out permanently instead of laughing him off constantly?" This issue wasn't that severe but it's pushing it imo. The way Ian writes Eggman is more how I'd prefer to see Eggman Nega written if he ever shows up.

Though I guess Forces happened in this universe so whatever.

 

[DabigRG]

19 hours ago, StaticMania said:

The concept doesn't have to be fine, plenty of bad ideas can be "made" into something that works.

This be truth.

19 hours ago, StaticMania said:

 

The Black Arms conceptually are stupid

They are?

14 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Um, why?  Honey never made it into the final version of any Classic game, up until hackers revealed her and then she was made playable in a rerelease, and that was a spin-off. 

So, she was playable in a Classic spinoff.

10 hours ago, dbzfan7 said:

Oh I freaking loved my boy in this one. That sly face he gives off multiple times is just precious. I get old school cartoon from that grin. They also did Rough and Tumble better here than their introduction where they felt one note. Feels like issue 3, but done much better.

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Positives

 

 

-Tumble...or was it Rough...whatever. The big guy made himself stand out more by showing his sensitivity for lacking a tail, and his anger at Tails having two of them while he doesn't get one no more. The way he also cries and coddles the robot one, and then acts like smashing Sonic is ok is both hilarious and a way to show a softer-ish side to him.

Middle feeling

-Starlight....kinda. I'm hesitant to really say this is a negative. I just don't get him. I get a weird feeling we're either getting the turn tables of villain using Eggman/betraying him, or a hard suck up without much else. I like the angle they are taking with him, but I guess I'd like more of a read on him.

Negatives

 

-We build up Tumble being enraged at Tails for having two tails. We show how sensitive a subject it is to him. But then Sonic is fighting him.....kinda feels like they got the wrong matchup....or shoulda had the other skunk have this issue. I mean why set up such a comedic interaction...have the big one call dibs to go after Tails because of his insecurity....and then we don't follow through....it's not that big a deal, but it is kinda baffling.

 

 

 

Spoiler

+. Rough is the little gray-blue one, Tumble is the big beige one.

=. I think he's supposed to be a little of both--obviously intended to eventually branch off with his own thing, but for now is genuinely interested in working with Eggman himself.

-. It's likely because Sonic kinda wanted to step in anyway to cover Tails since Tumble had that hammer block thing. And out of universe, they probably didn't have this exact encounter [all the way] planned when they originally designed them and just wanted to squeeze the gag in when they did notice the opportunity. Also, Rough pretty much looks like an evil Tails anyway.

 

 

9 hours ago, Redbluethunder5 said:

I really did not like this issue. 

Spoilers:

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The new kind of robotization looks interesting but the story doesn't; 

Eggman seems to be careless as usual,having learned nothing from his past defeats;

Starline seems to be way smarter than Eggman yet for some reason works for him instead of being his own villain;

 

 

Mod edit: Added spoiler tags

Really now?

I wouldn't say careless/smarter so much as arrogant/wiser.

[StaticMania]

18 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

They are? 

Indeed.

I'd rather see this side of Eggman be the one interacting with Sonic and Friends as they fight, while with his new lackeys he's ever so slightly more affable...and actually showing them why he's the genius that he supposedly is.

[Dr. Detective]

Good lord, Ian Eggman is just as ruthless as ever. Extended scenes of torturing little animals. Truly horrific. 

I do tend to forgive the more ruthless nature of his version of Eggman considering how well written it is. If he were to ever start writing for the games, I'd probably opt for it to be toned down a bit but he works it well.

Yeah, I'm still enjoying this. I thought the issue was funny. Despite the interactions between Rough and Tumble, my boy Tails was the highlight here. His reactions and the way he handled himself was comedic in a way that felt like it appropriately knew how to utilize his standing as a little nerd.

I mean, you just know little algebra calculations are going off like fireworks in his head everytime he gets something thrown at him.

[SBR2]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Good lord, Ian Eggman is just as ruthless as ever. Extended scenes of torturing little animals. Truly horrific. 

I do tend to forgive the more ruthless nature of his version of Eggman considering how well written it is. If he were to ever start writing for the games, I'd probably opt for it to be toned down a bit but he works it well.

I don't know it's not too different from the games. Eggman is a destructive madmanwho doesn't really care about the damage he causes. I mean he's been cramming animals into robots since day one so I don't think this is that far off.

[DabigRG]

8 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

Rouge the Bat dreams of breaking into their vault, but that's because they secretly evil and she wants to prove it.

...But mostly she just wants to rob them.  

8 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

It's biggest company WarpTech is largely responsible for manufacturing Wispons (we're not making it clear if they invented the concept, just in case).

I'm sorry, what now?

7 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

The comic still feels so empty, compare this to champions arc, where Ian was allowed to use any location and character he wanted, 

To be fair, this mostly takes place in random original locales that are isolated for the most part, whereas Archie's reboot mostly used areas from Unleashed aside from Meropis.

Wait, is that a thing?

7 hours ago, SBR2 said:

 

Also I love that giving the towns and the Elder a name adds absolutely nothing. We know their names now. Yay.

 

7 hours ago, Jack the Shadow said:

Ian added World Building immediately... Wow. Talk about gotta go fast. I don't like when he tries to please everyone. That's not how it should work but I guess this was needed. We are also back at having less characters... Dang, because people asked for that.

 

I kinda have to wonder if he really wasn't gonna name them until he actually decided to reuse them here. And threw Barricade Town in while he was at it because he knew it was an overall concern.

Not that there's anything wrong with that--it is an improvement. My only little note is that Barricade Town probably could've had a more clever name, but ah well. This is the series with Chemical Plant Zone, after all--it's an older meme, but it checks out sir.

 

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

I don't know it's not too different from the games. Eggman is a destructive madmanwho doesn't really care about the damage he causes. I mean he's been cramming animals into robots since day one so I don't think this is that far off.

The way it's being presented both here and especially in the Archie books is far more upfront with the brutality behind what he's doing. The games take steps to ensure that he doesn't have scenes of outright torture or individual scenes of him gleefully punishing someone in an excessive manner. I remember one of his goons back in the Archie days being paralyzed for failing him and he was locked away while at the same time being made fully aware of what was going on around him. He couldn't speak. He couldn't move. However, he was still cognitively present. And Eggman just sent Orbot and Cubot to lock him away with little evil sparkles in their eyes. He's really damn ruthless. 

I like it.

But, I do feel like it would need a bit of a simmer down should he ever move onto the games. Perhaps not exceedingly so, but just enough so that he doesn't come off quite as extreme. I actually wouldn't mind having a scene like what we saw with the Metal Virus in the games, personally though. 

In something like Lost World, he was just shoving the animals into the robots via conveyor belt. It's definitely not the same as what was being portrayed here. And if it was, it wasn't shown to us. 

I'm not complaining about it. This is more of an observation. I love the way Ian writes Eggman. I love the way Ian writes villains period. The games could stand to use more of his characters.

[DabigRG]

4 hours ago, Riggo said:

 

At most, I thought it was kind of weird that Tangle’s village and Scruffy were never named in Year 1 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Same here, exactly.

[StaticMania]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

In something like Lost World, he was just shoving the animals into the robots via conveyor belt. It's definitely not the same as what was being portrayed here. And if it was, it wasn't shown to us.  

What's happening here is like the exact same thing as roboticization, the games in no way can convey the same type of process through any lens as it is a plot point in Adventure that they do just pop out of the robot. Although...in a way, animals actually being the battery for Eggman's robots is technically worse, the games will never focus on that aspect obviously.

Also the design the animal took after turning kinda reminds me of the metal forms in Sonic Heroes multi-player.