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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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21 hours ago, Jack the Shadow said:

- He says Honey is likely restricted to the Classic canon as well (I'm sure she'll be in the next Classic game though)

Um, why?  Honey never made it into the final version of any Classic game, up until hackers revealed her and then she was made playable in a rerelease, and that was a spin-off.  I do not expect Classic Sonic to get spin-off games these days, because most people who prefer it to Modern Sonic do so because it's limited to just what existed before Sonic Team started experimenting with other gameplay styles.

4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

The things they do with the black arms prove that not only is the concept fine, provides a pretty interesting story and perspective for shadow and could be brought back in the games and done well.

 

4 hours ago, silvereye27 said:

I guess it is a shame that Sega is determined to bury parts of the past that failed, when a lot of it could work under a new writer.

They have the same attitude towards gameplay experiments that weren't executed quite right, which really sucks.

4 hours ago, StaticMania said:

The concept doesn't have to be fine, plenty of bad ideas can be "made" into something that works.

The Black Arms conceptually are stupid, Archie comics just made them interesting enough to overlook that.

Well, quite a lot of things in this series are stupid concepts if one starts to think of them.  Or at least, many aren't especially original.  Also, I think Black Doom is the only part of the Black Arms I find truly stupid due to his combination of lame motives with unconvincing pretense of righteous indignation, and the clumsy retcons to the backstory to bring him in.  Absent those bits, the worst the Black Arms would be is generic.  Maybe not a source of interesting characters, but at least a different sort of personality-less mook than we usually get in the games.

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Okay issue #13

First thing: Windmill Village (wait, didn't Tinker build it recently?), Barricade Townand Elder Scruffy. Boy Flynn suddenly retconned bunch of names on things we seen in Year One.

Obviously that's a plus, I just hope the locations will have some visual flare as well. Maybe Barricade Village will stay as a big fort, Windmill Village could have some machines from Tinker, etc. That would be cool

As for story

Spoiler

Core of the story is Year One standard: cute art, cute interactions, smashing small threats. Apparently next issue will be Starline (neat) and Metal Sonic... I love the dude, but isn't just a little early? Come on Flynn, you just repeated Rough & Tumble.

Highlight of the issue is Tails throwing projectile back. That should give you the idea how story looks.

Other than that:
- Amy now leads "Restoration". Ironically it's much better name than "Resistance". Like people said, it's not a bad idea. I just hope she's not becoming Sally 2.0.
- I like where things with Starline are going. I'm guessing when this arc is over he will be completely disappointing with Eggman's methods and quits his job. It goes slowly, but.
- My second call: This not-robotization is what ruined Silver's future. After all our future hedgehog mentioned water and metallic plants. Only question what will happen to animals and machinery. (BTW, metal animals make me thing of those spooky skins from Sonic Heroes)

Spoiler

image.png.5399f8cd2bec336f5457f2bd2a8937e5.png,

 

 

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Oh I freaking loved my boy in this one. That sly face he gives off multiple times is just precious. I get old school cartoon from that grin. They also did Rough and Tumble better here than their introduction where they felt one note. Feels like issue 3, but done much better.

Spoiler

 

Positives

-My son is MVP and really gets to show what he can do if given the proper chance. The way he went all RDJ Shelock Holmes was brilliant. Calculating trajectory for perfect catch and throwing that gas bomb right back

-Sonic hoping Mr. Tinker is still around, but not ruling out the obvious. The complete opposite of the Colors scenario where Tails for some reason doesn't believe an evil plot and Sonic is sure about it. This time Tails is sure about it, and Sonic is too but really hopes it's not that. I really like this humanity to Sonic. The heart of gold that isn't shown much lately.

-Tumble...or was it Rough...whatever. The big guy made himself stand out more by showing his sensitivity for lacking a tail, and his anger at Tails having two of them while he doesn't get one no more. The way he also cries and coddles the robot one, and then acts like smashing Sonic is ok is both hilarious and a way to show a softer-ish side to him.

-Sonic and Tails ripping off Rough and Tumbles gimmick as a taunt was funny. Helps the Skunk Bros are very expressive.

-Eggman is genuinely creepy here. I haven't felt this about him in a long time either. I still hate he came back so soon, but I can't deny I like how evil he is, but with his own charm.

-Eggman's plan being...actually really good. Biological warfare is a pretty powerful trick. Bolstering his own numbers with innocence, and then having them spread said virus is as they said, genius. It's something difficult to fight back against as well.....so long as they don't don't have Tails as an instant reverse switch. Like in Lost World.

Middle feeling

-Starlight....kinda. I'm hesitant to really say this is a negative. I just don't get him. I get a weird feeling we're either getting the turn tables of villain using Eggman/betraying him, or a hard suck up without much else. I like the angle they are taking with him, but I guess I'd like more of a read on him.

Negatives

-While I enjoyed this issue, it still is basically the same formula for year 1. Even leaves Tails with the same reason for staying behind. So we can have Sonic team up with one character, leave them behind, then rinse repeat for the next one.

-We build up Tumble being enraged at Tails for having two tails. We show how sensitive a subject it is to him. But then Sonic is fighting him.....kinda feels like they got the wrong matchup....or shoulda had the other skunk have this issue. I mean why set up such a comedic interaction...have the big one call dibs to go after Tails because of his insecurity....and then we don't follow through....it's not that big a deal, but it is kinda baffling.

 

 

 

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I really did not like this issue. 

Spoilers:

Spoiler

 

The new kind of robotization looks interesting but the story doesn't; 

Eggman seems to be careless as usual,having learned nothing from his past defeats;

Starline seems to be way smarter than Eggman yet for some reason works for him instead of being his own villain;

Let's not talk about Rough and Tumble;

Sonic seemed to be upset as the fans that the status quo was already restored with Eggman and even pointed out how this whole situation was a repeat of issue 1. If they know that it's the same thing, why doing it anyway? 

 

Mod edit: Added spoiler tags

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No break time necessary, this is a Sonic series, there's no time to slow down. Conflict is interesting.

True conflict, why are the animals named after their actual names? That's not how that works.

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I'm bored of Sonic adventures with his friends, I want to see him work with his rivals or alone so we can see his own goals and development. Amy is just Hedgehog sally and rough and tumble are fodder villains sonic would spin dash to sub atomic oblivion if he wanted to but lowers himself to fighting them with eggmanesqe anticipation.

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Well I was entertained at least with this issue and was honestly the most entertained I've been to date with Rough and Tumble. Their embarrassingly corny antics are really growing on me and I hope they'll continue to do so without getting stale. I almost feel like they are going to end up being the Team Rocket of the IDW run and I'm honestly okay with that.

Plot wise it's a slower start than I was hoping for honestly but I think it's better balanced than issue 1 just due to having more than Sonic's perspective played off of.

1 hour ago, Redbluethunder5 said:

Sonic seemed to be upset as the fans that the status quo was already restored with Eggman and even pointed out how this whole situation was a repeat of issue 1. If they know that it's the same thing, why doing it anyway? 

I actually though it was a nice parallel as it helped play to Sonic's desperate desire to hope that "Mr. Tinker" is alright while having to face the reality that it likely is Eggman. If you recall, the big mystery of the first half of year one was who was pulling the strings and if it was actually Eggman or not with things being similar enough to his work but just off enough to create doubt. The fact that the exact same thing is happening again is used more to throw Sonic off balance with our insight to the story allowing us to anticipate Sonic's reactions based on it not being a fake Eggman this time. To me at least it was part of why Sonic commented on the similarities, an attempt to show the audience that Sonic is unsettled by this whole scenario. Could it have been done better? Probably, especially since the apparent use of the parallels and highlighting of them confused you instead of cluing you in to how it is affecting Sonic.

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Without going into spoilers, but it really feels like this series isn't interesting in building a solid foundation of the world.

This is the mandates in full force I'm afraid as well as Ian Flynn's attempts to focus on the story above all else. It also doesn't help that he really can't world build with the whole mentality that the games are cannon to IDW where solid world building and structure has been nonexistent for quite some time. As an unfortunate result this comic is going to be fully carried entirely by the characters and narrative which will hurt matters only more since a lot of the characters don't have enough to them to make us want to invest in them enough for the book to be carried that way. It's really a case of this book really working best for you if your expectations are a meager " just want to see the characters well written and entertaining" scenario. It's kind of a shame, but since that is already about where my expectations are I'm mostly able to enjoy myself so far.

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3 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

This is the mandates in full force I'm afraid as well as Ian Flynn's attempts to focus on the story above all else. It also doesn't help that he really can't world build with the whole mentality that the games are cannon to IDW where solid world building and structure has been nonexistent for quite some time.

Bull-friccking-excrement

image.png.86f376aafed2773e9f84f1205ad20eff.png

Behold Zootopia Diamond City, one of biggest metropolis on the Whatever-Name Planet. Its futuristic technology makes it constant target of Eggman attacks. And remember those tiny rockets in Sonic Adventure 1 stages? City is filled with them for easy transport.
It's biggest company WarpTech is largely responsible for manufacturing Wispons (we're not making it clear if they invented the concept, just in case). Rouge the Bat dreams of breaking into their vault, but that's because they secretly evil and she wants to prove it.
Also the city if famous for it's chill dogs, another reason why some want to visit here and certain doctor wants to nuke it.

THERE. In two minutes I  just made up location for IDW.
Is it in contradiction to games? Not really
Could any of cities in issues 1-4 be replaced with it? Yes
And is it's very existence any different from Windmill Village by Status Quo rules? I believe not.

Every Sonic game just creates new place with zero connections to past (South Island, Soleanna, Lost Hex, etc). IDW can do the same and everything will be just fine.

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10 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Every Sonic game just creates new place with zero connections to past (South Island, Soleanna, Lost Hex, etc). IDW can do the same and everything will be just fine.

That's the idea scenario and I would personally prefer it, but based off of everything I've heard involving the IDW run so far I'm not willing to believe I'll see anything so in depth until Year Three at the earliest if we're lucky. As a result I'm just keeping my expectations and hopes for the comics low right now until I see evidence of change and since we've actually gotten some town names and even a name for the village elder of Windmill Village it's not like there is no precedent. Just right now I find I can enjoy the comics more by keeping my expectations as low as possible. 

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3 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Did I read the same issue you guys did because I'm freaking excited at where this is going? There's a genuinely cool threat set up with the Metal Virus, The action was great and I love the idea Tumble is sensitive about his lack of a tail, there's great characterization throughout I just don't see what's not to like.

Also I love that giving the towns and the Elder a name adds absolutely nothing. We know their names now. Yay.

Metal virus is being done better than roboticization in SatAM, Idk, probably for the experiment and rules part. Not only it feels more into the nature vs tech concept Sonic has. Ian added World Building immediately... Wow. Talk about gotta go fast. I don't like when he tries to please everyone. That's not how it should work but I guess this was needed. We are also back at having less characters... Dang, because people asked for that.

Anyway my favorite parts were the Eggman side, I love how the Doctor was written, but Sonic as well with his dialogues and him acting quite smart. It was an okay issue, actually, nothing spectacular but it sets up things pretty well. Plus we have Eggy now. It was like Issue 1 and 3 combined, but somehow it felt better... Was it just the art? Doubt it.

 

Well as for criticizing the comic, it's fine and you know that, but you know what I also have to say: I already explained this book's different approach, it couldn't be more different than Archie, so why people expect that? I dunno. And complain that it's just story? Really? This is no longer a comic for hardcore Sonic fans trying to put the tiniest Easter Eggs. I'm actually surprised Sega approved all of this stuff, considering this has more mandates than ever. I'm sorry to say it because I think it's rude. But if story heavy isn't for you, read the Archie comics which are full of continuity and world building, plus the Freedom Fighters are starring, there are over 400 issues of that including mini-series, specials and Universe. Those will please you because they are not for casuals.

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The funny thing is, even as easy as it is to be critical of the IDW run so far I'm still enjoying myself. I also agree that 13 feels like a mix of 1 and 3 which is ironically kind of funny just because of the 1 and 3 in 13 😁

On the topic of world building and lore though, I'm honestly kind of surprised by the different effect having a couple of names has on my perspective of the comic so far. Just having a name suddenly adds so much more weight to me that's it kind of surprising, especially since I'm typically someone who doesn't always need names to sell me the story. I wonder if it has to do with the way I perceive Ian Flynn's writing style as well as his strengths with world building and tying plot threads together.

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I don't mind it. Just don't focus on that, focus on the characters. And I do agree with you. We should keep expectations low...

Champions is always brought up but, remember that arc was more about the fun and not so much about World Building...

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14 minutes ago, Jack the Shadow said:

Well as for criticizing the comic, it's fine and you know that, but you know what I also have to say: I already explained this book's different approach, it couldn't be more different than Archie, so why people expect that? I dunno. And complain that it's just story? Really? This is no longer a comic for hardcore Sonic fans trying to put the tiniest Easter Eggs. I'm actually surprised Sega approved all of this stuff, considering this has more mandates than ever. I'm sorry to say it because I think it's rude. But if story heavy isn't for you, read the Archie comics which are full of continuity and world building, plus the Freedom Fighters are starring, there are over 400 issues of that including mini-series, specials and Universe. Those will please you because they are not for casuals.

This is the second time you've trotted out this lame response because people inevitably draw comparisons to the previous comic--which is actually valid. The books reads the same and sharing the creative team brought certain expectations (such as Ian's penchant for establishing his worlds). This isn't even about the Freedom Fighters or something, people really just want more of what's in this one because they saw a pretty basic fucking baseline from the same writer already. This isn't hard.

We had this shit in the Archie thread and I was one of the idiots who perpetuated it but I realized it was wrong. If you can't be bothered to engage what people are saying then don't bother making posts like this telling people how to feel or telling them to go read the comic that isn't even available to them anymore. I've just about had it with this sort of thing.

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54 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

This is the second time you've trotted out this lame response because people inevitably draw comparisons to the previous comic--which is actually valid. The books reads the same and sharing the creative team brought certain expectations (such as Ian's penchant for establishing his worlds). This isn't even about the Freedom Fighters or something, people really just want more of what's in this one because they saw a pretty basic fucking baseline from the same writer already. This isn't hard.

We had this shit in the Archie thread and I was one of the idiots who perpetuated it but I realized it was wrong. If you can't be bothered to engage what people are saying then don't bother making posts like this telling people how to feel or telling them to go read the comic that isn't even available to them anymore. I've just about had it with this sort of thing.

I just think it's a not reasonable way to criticize stuff and yeah, it's a lame argument "it's not the old book" and such comparisons. I'll stop though, I'll leave the current state of the thread to you mods since it's your job. Mine is to defend the comic since I like it, but I can do it in better ways. I also didn't want to resort to the "read Archie instead" but if that's what they like, it's more of a suggestion than being rude.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Also I love that giving the towns and the Elder a name adds absolutely nothing. We know their names now. Yay.

Hey! This right here, it actually means something to some people.

 

Now if I could actually tell you what it meant, then that'd be even more something.

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I really liked this issue. I might explain myself more later if I have the time, but overall I don’t have much negative to say.

Though, as far as the naming of things goes—the lack of names was never something I really took issue with in Year 1, so I can’t say this issue really “fixed” anything there for me. (Though I do find it to be kind of funny that we’ve gone from “names are useless trivia and are ultimately unnecessary” to “name everything”.) And I don’t mind their inclusion by any means—the presence of them makes it feel like more of an actual world—but the names themselves don’t matter to me.

At most, I thought it was kind of weird that Tangle’s village and Scruffy were never named in Year 1 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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