Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

She... was never the commanding officer. 

Yes, she is.

She is the de facto leader of Team Dark and the one that usually gives the team orders that even Shadow follows a number of times.

Just because she not as powerful as the Ultimate Lifeform and has no hard control over him does not invalidate this, especially when the relationship between them is that Shadow is given more autonomy and trust to the point that Rouge is more a friend to him than a boss. The games themselves (which post-Reboot Archie follows) made that clear the moment she jumped in and physically stopped Shadow and Omega from fighting and got them to work together instead, and given that leaders of teams tend to be the ones with more intel to direct the group, that in itself says a lot on who’s in charge even if Shadow’s the main face of the group—much the same way the Freedom Fighters were with Sally being in charge instead of Sonic.

[DabigRG]

4 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I removed your other post both for one-word spam and also insulting another member. Don't do it again.

Oh, sorry about that. Both of them.

In the former case, I thought it would've been fine as long as it was part of a greater post with multiple, more detailed replies.

6 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

I’m so-so on his portrayal of Tails mostly because it’s kind of hard to get a handle on what he’s supposed to be sometimes. I remember not really liking him in The Tails Adventure because he seemed like he was being portrayed as this hyper confident, super realized, could-do-no-wrong, is completely perfect and unshaken version of himself that kind of felt like it was trying too hard to make him like a mini-Sonic, except not as mean, nerdier, and more refined.

It's kind of like the polar opposite of the kind of Tails that would cover in fear of Chaos 0. Rarely, polar opposite portrayals work out well for me. That’s why I love Tails in Boom as much as I do though I’ve explained why plenty of times by this point.

Yeah, that sounds about right. (But "Super realized?")

It was not only a Universe with Tails, Sidekick to Sonic the Hedgehog, in the starring role, but it was also an adaptation of his own obscure spinoff game of the same name, which had him take on an entire armada led by long lineage, the heir of which was something of a rival for him. The pressure is thus on to play up the fact that this is Tails' big movement in the sun.

Also keep in mind that, in addition to his usual connection to Sonic, Preboot!Tails had already done and been through quite a bit of out there stuff over the course of the comic. So in a way, it made sense that the Kukkus wouldn't be that much of a worrying point for him.

6 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 It's funny because I remember Ian even responding to the criticism that people didn't really like that Rouge was just "Team Mom" for Team Dark, saying criticism like that is why he had the forums around. It seemed like he was willing to try and give her a shot at a different portrayal so who knows.

Yeah, I remember that too. It must've been nice to get such specific/constructive feedback regarding how he writes a game character.

Though when you think about it, it's possible that he also wasn't anywhere as comfortable with writing Rouge when he did as he was with the other characters.

[RedFox99]

33 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Though when you think about it, it's possible that he also wasn't anywhere as comfortable with writing Rouge when he did as he was with the other characters.

Why do you suppose? Would it be due to her more... adult design?

[Dash Speed]

2 hours ago, Conquering Slay-bell Storm said:

Yes, she is.

She is the de facto leader of Team Dark and the one that usually gives the team orders that even Shadow follows a number of times.

Just because she not as powerful as the Ultimate Lifeform and has no hard control over him does not invalidate this, especially when the relationship between them is that Shadow is given more autonomy and trust to the point that Rouge is more a friend to him than a boss. The games themselves (which post-Reboot Archie follows) made that clear the moment she jumped in and physically stopped Shadow and Omega from fighting and got them to work together instead, and given that leaders of teams tend to be the ones with more intel to direct the group, that in itself says a lot on who’s in charge even if Shadow’s the main face of the group—much the same way the Freedom Fighters were with Sally being in charge instead of Sonic.

Rouge has never been the leader, it's either Shadow or all of them as a vocal group of leaders. She stopped Shadow and Omega because in heroes......just because, but Shadow is the one getting the team to follow his path in story mode.

[Cuz]

32 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Rouge has never been the leader,

but Shadow is the one getting the team to follow his path in story mode.

Yeah no, Rouge is the only thing holding that team together in Heroes. Without her, Shadow and Omega would fly off in their own lone wolf directions. The dynamic might be different now that Shadow has worked through his amnesia, but until he managed that team Dark needed Rouge to be a team at all.

[Dr. Detective]

17 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Rouge has never been the leader, it's either Shadow or all of them as a vocal group of leaders. She stopped Shadow and Omega because in heroes......just because, but Shadow is the one getting the team to follow his path in story mode.

When it comes to Shadow, that's actually not true.  He wasn't getting them to do anything, in any of those scenes really. I think he said "Let's go" a few times but that's it.

Really, I don't care who the leader was all too much. The only reason I know they intended Rouge to be the leader was because of the old Sonic Heroes site they made for the game. I don't know if it can still be found in the Wayback Machine or whatever. Probably not but there it listed all the teams and who the leader was for each of them. When I was a kid, I assumed all the speed characters were by default, but when I went to the site and saw the Leader signal next to Vector and Rouge I was like "Oh yeah. This is probably decided by who they are as characters and not by whose in the speed formation."  I probably should have gathered that Vector was the leader just from paying attention to the cutscenes but I was like 9 or 10 years old at the time. It was harder to pay attention at that age. I guess I was just too taken by how cool their designs were as well. 

[Shadowlax]

There was a response here to the leader stuff, but its whatever. Not feeling to argue over that. I don't think having intel makes you a leader it makes you a strategist at best, but if you think rouge is the leader, that's cool. I think its pretty clear she's following shadow around, and that's also cool. We can agree to disagree and just be chillboys. 

[Shadowlax]

nevermind

 

 

[Cuz]

Feeling that way myself. I'll just leave a few of my counter points and be done.

If you consider Team Dark to of started in Sonic Heroes: Shadow, by virtue of literally just waking up from a coma, is in no shape to be leading team dark until after he's had his brou-haha with Black Doom. Shadow's also not the type to command people, he'd sooner see it done himself.

and Rouge is far more than just intel, she was conceived to be Knuckles rival after all. She's a well-rounded character (in the appropriate sense).

I consider them equal partners by '06.

 

[Shadowlax]

The rouge rivaling knuckles thing is another reason why i'm not fond of team dark

Her as a character has a dynamic that isn't really used much because she's often stuck as support for shadow as a character. Her being a spy thief treasure hunter, its one of the reasons why I think team dark should go their seperate ways because each one is much better characters when interacting with others and creating new dynamics. 

[Red Hot Jack]

Honestly, I like them both as Team Dark because they work together so well, their interactions are fun too, they are such a great team, and individually because I love their interactions with other characters as well, like Rouge & Knuckles, Rouge & Amy, Shadow & Amy, Sonic & Shadow, Shadow & Knuckles. Also, now that I think about it, Rouge had some great writing in Shadow Fall and Total Eclipse, she was sort of the voice of reason for Team Dark, but also funny and playful as she should be, with her interactions with Knuckles and Relic. So I trust Ian with her character, however she should be seen outside of Team Dark too.

Edit: We may be getting the solicits tomorrow, perhaps? It's the third Wednesday of the month, I checked that the March solicitations were released on the third Wednesday of December (20th). So it's possible.

[Marco9966]

Do you think the solicits are for tomorrow??

[DaddlerTheDalek]

6 hours ago, Cuz said:

Yeah no, Rouge is the only thing holding that team together in Heroes. Without her, Shadow and Omega would fly off in their own lone wolf directions. The dynamic might be different now that Shadow has worked through his amnesia, but until he managed that team Dark needed Rouge to be a team at all.

This. Rouge is the leader of Team Dark. There is no doubt IMO.

[BlueSky]

6 hours ago, Dr. Jack said:

Edit: We may be getting the solicits tomorrow, perhaps? It's the third Wednesday of the month, I checked that the March solicitations were released on the third Wednesday of December (20th). So it's possible.

4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Do you think the solicits are for tomorrow??

There was like 4 Wednesdays in total for December, now we have 5 for this month. I'd go with what was stated earlier as the estimated day.

[Marco9966]

I can't wait! I think I'm gonna do a marathon of SA1-SA2-Heroes-Riders-Unleashed-Colors-and so on to help me wait!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

11 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Rouge has never been the leader, it's either Shadow or all of them as a vocal group of leaders. She stopped Shadow and Omega because in heroes......just because, but Shadow is the one getting the team to follow his path in story mode.

Okay, dude. I’ve seen your posts, and I’m letting you know right now that I’m not interested in arguing against blind Shadow fanboyism.

And I say this as a huge Shadow fan myself.

[Marco9966]

I agree Rouge is the leader!

Shadow is not much of leader, nor Omega. But Rouge is!

[Dash Speed]

7 hours ago, Dr. Jack said:

Honestly, I like them both as Team Dark because they work together so well, their interactions are fun too, they are such a great team, and individually because I love their interactions with other characters as well, like Rouge & Knuckles, Rouge & Amy, Shadow & Amy, Sonic & Shadow, Shadow & Knuckles. Also, now that I think about it, Rouge had some great writing in Shadow Fall and Total Eclipse, she was sort of the voice of reason for Team Dark, but also funny and playful as she should be, with her interactions with Knuckles and Relic. So I trust Ian with her character, however she should be seen outside of Team Dark too.

Edit: We may be getting the solicits tomorrow, perhaps? It's the third Wednesday of the month, I checked that the March solicitations were released on the third Wednesday of December (20th). So it's possible.

Fun isn' something I generally want to depict Team Dark unless it's gameplay mechanics. The point of the team is their the opposite of the quirky lighthearted antics that team sonic embodies and are more pseudo adult in their own style. That's the issue I had with Ian, he made team dark to much of a follower of the crowd as a lightheaded portrayal of the team.

[Dee Dude]

I thought it was obvious Rouge was head of Team Dark...

Sure, it can be a tad easy to mistake Shadow for the position if you were younger like me, but throughout Heroes, Rouge formed the team, did most of the talking, planning, and pretty much been telling Shadow and Omega to do things her way while neither of the latter cared lol.

Omega is the obvious brute while Shadow is the quiet loner who’s in his own solitary mind.

[Dash Speed]

11 hours ago, Cuz said:

Yeah no, Rouge is the only thing holding that team together in Heroes. Without her, Shadow and Omega would fly off in their own lone wolf directions. The dynamic might be different now that Shadow has worked through his amnesia, but until he managed that team Dark needed Rouge to be a team at all.

I'e played all the games, and Shadow has never derfered to rouge on a hiarcheal level of command. following orders based on intell isn' the same as being someone' subordinate, since Shadow still does what he wants. Rouge holds the team together how exactly? Imma need some official citations from the profiles please, she' definitely the heart of the group, but Shadow and Omega are still unaffiliated with her as far as non gun agent issues go. Which is all the time.

7 minutes ago, Dee Dude said:

I thought it was obvious Rouge was head of Team Dark...

Sure, it can be a tad easy to mistake Shadow for the position if you were younger like me, but throughout Heroes, Rouge formed the team, did most of the talking, planning, and pretty much been telling Shadow and Omega to do things her way lol.

Omega is the obvious brute while Shadow is the quiet loner who’s in his own solitary mind.

Sonic Team thinks of Shadow of the head of team dark. Rouge is the intell. Like Tails is the planner and the brains of Sonic, Amy and Knuckles, which by your logic comes off as leadership.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Dash, when was your last post you didn't talked/mentioned Shadow?

He listened to her in "Treasure Team Tango" for start. (until he stopped, but that's beside the point) Total Eclipse she was pretty much in charge as well.

If you count only games, look at start of Heroes. She made Omega and Shadow calm down, she made then talked things out, she convinced them to be a team. She's not a real leader like Gun Commander, Sally Acorn or even Vector, but it's clear she's the one usually taking initiative, which ipso facto, makes her a leader.

[RedFox99]

3 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Dash, when was your last post you didn't talked/mentioned Shadow?

He listened to her in "Treasure Team Tango" for start. (until he stopped, but that's beside the point) Total Eclipse she was pretty much in charge as well.

If you count only games, look at start of Heroes. She made Omega and Shadow calm down, she made then talked things out, she convinced them to be a team. She's not a real leader like Gun Commander, Sally Acorn or even Vector, but it's clear she's the one usually taking initiative, which ipso facto, makes her a leader.

Wait so what does de facto mean?

[Dash Speed]

7 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Dash, when was your last post you didn't talked/mentioned Shadow?

He listened to her in "Treasure Team Tango" for start. (until he stopped, but that's beside the point) Total Eclipse she was pretty much in charge as well.

If you count only games, look at start of Heroes. She made Omega and Shadow calm down, she made then talked things out, she convinced them to be a team. She's not a real leader like Gun Commander, Sally Acorn or even Vector, but it's clear she's the one usually taking initiative, which ipso facto, makes her a leader.

Uncannon wise, she was the leader uncannonwise, where shadow wasn't written as sharp or on edge like his games portrayal.

I got nothing on the heroes scene, shadow must have still had the incentive to trust her despite losing his memories.

[BlueSky]

29 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Uncannon wise, she was the leader uncannonwise, where shadow wasn't written as sharp or on edge like his games portrayal.

Ohh, uncannon-firing's funny.

I just wonder, a casual question, what do you consider being canon considering this conversation-running-in-circles here anyway?

Just keep in mind, there isn't "the almighty canon" and "all the uncanon" as in generally speaking, there's simply just many canons. Like, comics have their own canons, Boom has its own, etc.

Trust me, accepting different canons existing somewhat alongside to each other makes life a lot less blood-pressure-driven one.

[MetalSkulkBane]

37 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Wait so what does de facto mean?

"De facto" = in practice. Something wasn't planned/said out loud, but in reality is.

"Ipso Facto" - in logical conclusion, x proves y.

Similar phrases, but not always exchangeable.

"Superman can lift plane, ipso facto, a car shouldn't be a problem"

"Batman is de facto leader of Justice League" Here ipso facto could been used, if there was argument first. "Batman always comes up with a plan, making him..."