Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[SSF1991]

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Again, how many of those people have read Archie Comics post SGW? I'm gonna assume the majority of those coming to the conclusion.

Well, yeah. It's Sonic comics. A lot of them were Archie Sonic fans. And the post-SGW has been argued as one of the best eras of Archie Sonic. They moved to IDW because, well, more Sonic comics. Why is that a bad thing, and how does that ruin their interpretations? This isn't an interpretation that people have been pulling out of their ass, people have explained why they think it's Sally and they're very fair reasons. Being an Archie Sonic fan has nothing to do with it.

 

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Again, this comic isn't trying to replicate the Archie Comics.

No one said it is. How did you even get this from a character interpretation?

 

9 minutes ago, Ini Miney Jovahexeon said:

And they certainly aren't trying to antagonize Archie fans. Intrigue, mystify and get people talking? Sure.

I wouldn't go far as to say they're "trying to antagonize Archie fans", but I do think this character reveal hasn't been executed well.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

The people working on the comics should have noticed that it looked like Sally in the first place, if they really wanted to reveal a character that wasn't related to Sally. Again, there's this many fans that are nearly certain it still is her, yet it's totally reasonable to assume creative team themselves could all just miss the resemblance completely? If it's not Sally, then nobody should have believed it was in the first place. But they did, which means if it's an entirely unrelated character, IDW either fucked up in a way beyond believability, or is trying to get the Archie crowd in by leading to believe that it's Sally, which would backfire royally. I don't see what other explanation there is for this.

[Shadowlax]

3 minutes ago, Ini Miney Jovahexeon said:

Same reason Sticks was such a big deal prior to Boom getting off the ground. New characters tend to get more and more people talking. Regardless of the context. It suggests a shaking up to the norm to have a new character possibly be added to the fold or new continuity.

Sticks didn't have a teaser reveal

She wasn't that  big of a deal either, she wasn't even playable in the first thing they released. " hey new character" and that was about it

[Diogenes]

Jesus christ are people seriously thinking the character is intentionally designed to look like Sally just to trick people? They're teasing a new character to promote a new comic, which is entirely reasonable, and the head in silhouette looking vaguely like an existing character's does not mean this is some sort of trick. Y'all are being ridiculous.

[Celestia]

It'd been said before but I think it bears repeating now: if they don't want to--or perhaps can't, for whatever reason--use the DiC characters, they should be upfront with it. I know, I know, they "don't want to lose the diehard Archie fans!" but that's...going to happen anyway if those characters don't show up???

For the record other than...this whole situation, I'm still really really excited for this, lol. Looks like a fun time, can't wait to see what the creative team does in the long run, I like Sonic and this is a Sonic, etc.

EDIT: Also while there is a resemblance, I...kinda think people are seeing what they want to see there. That's all I'm gonna say on the "omg they're trying to trick people" matter. Well, bye.

[GentlemanX]

There were people that thought Sticks was Marine, but that comparison is like apples and oranges with the situation we've got right now. No one was expecting or hoping Marine would be in Boom. Whether the Freedom Fighters were going to be in IDW has been a sticking point since this was announced.

[SSF1991]

1 minute ago, GentlemanX said:

Whether the Freedom Fighters were going to be in IDW has been a sticking point since this was announced.

It hasn't helped that IDW has been avoiding the question for months.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

35 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

I wouldn't go far as to say they're "trying to antagonize Archie fans", but I do think this character reveal hasn't been executed well.

I'm referring to those accusing this whole bit of being a bout of antagonism. That's just silly.

33 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Sticks didn't have a teaser reveal

Your point being?

33 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

She wasn't that  big of a deal either

Well that notion is quite contrary to what actually went down when she was revealed as a new main character along with the usual 4 in the show. Despite already having a face to actually see (and even then, people were speculating on her being Marine) that didn't stop word of mouth here and there, and speculation was through the roof on countless aspects surrounding her.

 

35 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Well, yeah. It's Sonic comics. A lot of them were Archie Sonic fans. They moved to IDW because, well, more Sonic comics. Why is that a bad thing, and how does that ruin their interpretations? This isn't an interpretation that people have been pulling out of their ass, people have explained why they think it's Sally and they're very fair reasons. Being an Archie Sonic fan has nothing to do with it.

Did I ever say this was bad thing or suggest they didn't explain why? No I didn't. My point is that it could very well just be a bout of fans familiar with the shape seeing what they want to see.

I mean, assuming these aren't even geared towards the fans of the Archie comics, is it really that wrong to assume it's not Sally and that it's not meant to give the audience they're actually aiming for that inkling? Not even saying that's the case for sure, but the hostility towards it is extremely unnecessary and comes off as a bit trigger happy. Heck, if it turned out to be the case, I'd be there with you guys and I'm not even a fan of Archie Comics Sonic.

 

34 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

The people working on the comics should have noticed that it looked like Sally in the first place, if they really wanted to reveal a character that wasn't related to Sally.

Why? Why and how were they supposed to know that a particular silhouette of a character who's actual appearance we haven't even seen yet would get certain people to think that they're dicking with them over a character from a comic line that IDW doesn't even have much relation to (hence SEGA jumping the Archie ship or legal matters to IDW in the first place)?

 

34 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

If it's not Sally, then nobody should have believed it was in the first place.

Don't even get me started on all the theories surrounding Infinite that existed based off of his shadows in marketing. By that logic, no one should've believed he was Tails or fucking Blaze at some point. :U

 

34 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

But they did, which means if it's an entirely unrelated character, IDW either fucked up in a way beyond believability, or is trying to get the Archie crowd in by leading to believe that it's Sally, which would backfire royally.

Am I just ignorant or something? Because I legit, do not see what they're doing morally wrong in this picture.

[Celestia]

3 minutes ago, Ini Miney Jovahexeon said:

Am I just ignorant or something? Because I legit, do not see what they're doing morally wrong in this picture.

Erm...I don't think anyone is arguing they did something morally wrong, just that they messed up by (intentionally or not) designing a character that has a kind of familiar silhouette and hyping up said silhouette, particularly when they've yet to answer whether or not certain characters can be used again. I think that's a fair stance based on what we've seen so far.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Erm...I don't think anyone is arguing they did something morally wrong, just that they messed up by (intentionally or not)

Again, referring to the accusations of antagonism on the page prior.

[goku262002]

Great so the first arc of this new series and were jumping into a....Forces adaption?! gross.

We already had our Forces tie-in comics why muddle the new comic with it?

Damn it Forces go away already or get better with mods.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Ini Miney Jovahexeon said:

Am I just ignorant or something? Because I legit, do not see what they're doing morally wrong in this picture.

Well, no. There isn't. When it comes to what I hypothesize this situation to be it's nothing morally compromising at all. They should be allowed to design their characters however they want. Admittedly, it does seem a little scary that people are this mad just because it looks like her and the idea that it might not be her is ushering in rhetoric this harsh. I just don't think it's usually a good idea to lead up to the reveal of characters with silhouettes period. I just think it's silly. Adding onto the fact that it looks a bit like her makes the way this was done just a tad bit more sloppy. That's really it for me though.

Maybe it's harder for me to grasp the big deal because I don't care one way or another about Sally. I don't like her but if she's in it, I'll live. 

I dunno. I'm trying to imagine myself in a situation like this and I'm having trouble visualizing an example of this that would make me this livid. I'm mostly trying to get into the mindset behind the outrage so I can sympathize a bit more really.

I understand caring about the execution of this and the idea that it might not be her but I feel like I'd mostly be a little stern about the method used here and not much else, even if it was a character (or characters) I wanted to see return. Like Bocoe and Decoe. 

[SSF1991]

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I'm referring to those accusing this whole bit of being a bout of antagonism. That's just silly.

I see. Still, I don't think it's fair to act like IDW hasn't been creating hype for this reveal, when they have.

 

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Did I ever say this was bad thing or suggest they didn't explain why? No I didn't.

You didn't have to say it. You keep using it as a point to delegitimize their interpretations.

 

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My point is that it could very well just be a bout of fans familiar with the shape seeing what they want to see.

I think you underestimate how much of the Sonic fanbase knows about Sally. Hell, I remember 10 years ago when I first joined the Sonic community. I knew nothing of the comics at the time, but it sure didn't take long for me to hear about the existence of Sally and the Freedom Fighters. And this comes from someone who, at this time, didn't know that games like Sonic Heroes and Sonic 06 existed (don't ask, I was really out of touch with Sonic back then lol). I knew of Sally before I knew of Sonic Heroes. That's how widespread she's known in the Sonic community. Of course, my story may be a special case, considering the whole Sonic Heroes thing I mentioned, but still. The point is, Sally's very well known. you don't have to read the comics to know who she is and what she looks like. It has nothing to do with "seeing what they want to see". The shape is legitimately similar to Sally. Again, there's a legitimate reason why people feel that way.

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is it really that wrong to assume it's not Sally and that it's not meant to give the audience they're actually aiming for that inkling?

No, but I also don't think it's right to just delegitimize the Sally interpretation as essentually bias, either. Which is the point I'm making. Both sides have made legitimate cases for their interpretations, be it Sally or a new character. And with this many people thinking it's the former, IDW's in a bit of a pickle here. And it hasn't helped that they have dodged the question of the Freedom Fighters for month. And that they've been hyping up this reveal for almost a week. We won't know for sure until tomorrow.

 

[Meta77]

If it's Sally give me my pink no pants Sally from my youth lol. This is exciting maybe it's her maybe not. I'm hyped either way. I'll probably be at work during reveal

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

On 1/23/2018 at 10:43 PM, SSF1991 said:

I see. Still, I don't think it's fair to act like IDW hasn't been creating hype for this reveal, when they have.

Never suggested they haven't. Hype is natural to come with a new character. The fact that some folks ended up speculating it to be Sally is more a coincidence, or at least that's what it seems to be more than anything else if you ask me.

On 1/23/2018 at 10:43 PM, SSF1991 said:

You didn't have to say it. You keep using it as a point to delegitimize their interpretations.

No, that's just you assuming the worst from me I'm afraid. I never even claimed it's not Sally, just that this isn't something meant to mess with Archie Comic fans in a negative manner like many are suspecting. And we don't even know if this character even resembles Sally past a shadowy silhouette.

Interpret all you want, but don't insist the worst on a company off a silhouette.

On 1/23/2018 at 10:43 PM, SSF1991 said:

I think you underestimate how much of the Sonic fanbase knows about Sally.

Remember how I specified POST SGW earlier. Because if I had to compare that silhouette to any incarnation of Sally, that's the only one that comes to mind for me, and even then, I'm not really seeing it.

My point was never that the Sally was supposedly obscure to the fanbase, but that from my perspective, the best means of knowing that look of hers is from the Archie comics run, especially those specific proportions. And again, that's just my perspective. There's really no  one objective way to look at this, so don't be surprised if just as many people don't see where the others are coming from.

On 1/23/2018 at 10:43 PM, SSF1991 said:

No, but I also don't think it's right to just delegitimize the Sally interpretation as essentually bias, either.

I'd ask that you not try and misconstrue my original points as such then, please. Everything involving this is bias. That goes without saying. My point is that some people are running a bit too wild with the idea that because it allegedly  resembles Sally, this is all just a middle finger to the old comics line. :U

[Kellan]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I dunno. I'm trying to imagine myself in a situation like this and I'm having trouble visualizing an example of this that would make me this livid.

Ooh, let me try. I’m going to assume (possibly incorrectly), that you liked Sonic Heroes, based on how much you like Charmy Bee. Imagine if they announced a sequel to Heroes, but they only confirmed that Teams Sonic, Rose, and Dark would be returning. And any time someone asked about the Chaotix, they were only given nothing answers, which lasted for months. And then they made a big deal about revealing the next team, and the silhouette seems to intentionally resemble the Chaotix.

Now, wouldn’t you feel misled if it wasn’t?

[GentlemanX]

12 minutes ago, Ini Miney Jovahexeon said:

Again, referring to the accusations of antagonism on the page prior.

I guess here's my problem in a nutshell.

The silhouette looks like Sally. While some claim it doesn't, there are clearly enough people here and elsewhere that see Sally there that at the very least someone who's job it was to hype this character should have realized it would be seen as Sally. If the silhouette is in fact Sally, then it does exactly what it's supposed to do and gets people that know and want that character to appear excited for the announcement she's being included in the new comic. If the silhouette is in fact not Sally, then it gets that same audience excited only to bait and switch them with a new character.

If that was done unintentionally, it seems negligent that IDW would not pay enough attention to their promotional material to realize this possibility and prevent confusion and false hype amongst the fan base. Again, it's their job to do this and do this right. If that was done intentionally, then IDW is purposefully leading on potential readers which seems... incredibly unprofessional at best.

I don't think IDW is so unprofessional that they would lead on potential consumers. But I don't think IDW is so ignorant of the fanbase they're trying to reach that they would make such an easy mistake in how they were building interest in their new property. That seems just as unlikely. So I don't know the answer, but... it's a lose-lose either way. 

[Korke]

@Ini Miney Jovahexeon I won't use the quote tool because this method of multiple little quote parts is a real pain to set up, lol

I don't think they are having any kind of malice, but let's be frank, every single one who's working in the comic had already been in Archie's staff for years and years, except for Hughes. They would notice the resemblance just like the ones who used to read the book just did.

As for Sticks, that was not a valid comparison, she was just placed in the game and the show with no reveal, much less that "who is that pokémon" kind of teasing.

It is unfair to judge that people are only seeing things they want to see because most people are just following logic. If the shape did not had the eyelashes, everyone would be sure it was a Ray comeback. If the shape had a tall tail, everyone would get divided by a Blaze or Honey image. It just makes no sense they would make this "who is that pokémon" game when said pokémon doesn't even exist yet.

...I don't recall any other characters which species could have such long tail.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

22 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

So I don't know the answer, but... it's a lose-lose either way. 

I honestly don't see it that way. I'm of high regard to the possibility that it is what they say it is. A new character to get people excited for a new comic line. The similarities just seem too vague to go on the crusade a few fans have over this dark figure. I mean, we don't even know the physical details of him/her. I'd rather not condemn a character as a jab at the audience before I even see the character for real. That kind of thought pattern is it too needlessly pessimistic.

Look, like I said before, if such turns out to be the case, then let 'em have it, but don't be this presumptuous. Because chances are, it's not what one particular group of fans wants so of course they're going to be upset.

And hey who knows, maybe suspicions of it being Sally are right and those folk might get what they're pining for. Who knows? Just don't maul each other over what you can't even see for real yet.

[MetalSkulkBane]

I really wish we all took a nap until we see this character, then start to complain.

But I'm a restrained guy like that... plus I'm really sleepy right now.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Kellan said:

Ooh, let me try. I’m going to assume (possibly incorrectly), that you liked Sonic Heroes, based on how much you like Charmy Bee. Imagine if they announced a sequel to Heroes, but they only confirmed that Teams Sonic, Rose, and Dark would be returning. And any time someone asked about the Chaotix, they were only given nothing answers, which lasted for months. And then they made a big deal about revealing the next team, and the silhouette seems to intentionally resemble the Chaotix.

Now, wouldn’t you feel misled if it wasn’t?

Hmm. There are a lot of things about the standing of the game series that I have to ignore to consider this situation viable or possible but taking it at surface level... I can't really say that I would... mostly because it actually would be the Chaotix.

I'm sorry. I guess this example is hard to think through. If I saw the silhouette of a three man team that looked like a crocodile, a chameleon with a horn on his face, and a bee wearing a helmet and they were refusing to acknowledge it was the Chaotix, I'd probably find that hilarious. Literally it could be no one else. Their character designs are too specific. I could at least envision a typical animal OC with the silhouette that Sally has. 

And if it turned out to be bootleg versions of the Chaotix that would just fry the circuits of my brain. I wouldn't be able to comprehend in what realm of reality doing something like that would make sense. At least, here I see the line of logic even if the execution is sloppy. 

Plus, even if I felt misled, that's already an emotion I can sympathize with. It's just to the level of being as mad about it that I struggle a bit. Of course, I'd be disappointed by the situation you posed but...

Perhaps if Vector and Espio were confirmed but Charmy wasn't and they dicked me around with a silhouette of him but it turned out to be Brendan Fraser, star of the Mummy and some other films. I'd get mad by that but that would be an intentional exclusion of a character that would and should be there otherwise, since there's no TV show or old comic continuity angle necessary to work through with him. Though, that kind of happened when it came to the recent Olympics. Charmy was still in the game but only Vector and Espio had playable bits. Well, Espio kind of only had one event. I didn't buy the game regardless so it doesn't even matter. Who cares about the Olympics...

Honestly, after Forces I can't get too excited about characters showing up in the games period really...

It might actually be a pleasant distraction if it turned out to be Brendan Fraser, star of the Mummy and some other films. 

I mean I don't hate Brendan Fraser, star of the Mummy and some other films. I enjoyed his role as the Security Guard who got fired after he made the Water Tower fall after catching Daffy in Looney Tunes Back in Action.

... I'm sorry. I guess the answer's no. 

[Diogenes]

Just now, Kellan said:

Ooh, let me try. I’m going to assume (possibly incorrectly), that you liked Sonic Heroes, based on how much you like Charmy Bee. Imagine if they announced a sequel to Heroes, but they only confirmed that Teams Sonic, Rose, and Dark would be returning. And any time someone asked about the Chaotix, they were only given nothing answers, which lasted for months. And then they made a big deal about revealing the next team, and the silhouette seems to intentionally resemble the Chaotix.

Now, wouldn’t you feel misled if it wasn’t?

That's not really an equal comparison when this is an entirely separate comic and not a sequel of any sort so there's no default assumption that the character even exists in the continuity, and there's no actual reason to think they've intentionally made the silhouette look like Sally when the only features that can really be clearly identified are all pretty generic Sonic character features, compared to the Chaotix having some of the most unique designs in the series.

2 minutes ago, Korke said:

It just makes no sense they would make this "what pokémon is that" game when said pokémon doesn't even exist yet.

You're (almost certainly) not supposed to guess who it is. You're supposed to speculate and discuss to build interest and hype, to keep the comic in your mind and to spread it to other people, so that more people will maybe buy it. There's no mystery here, it's about as basic as marketing/advertising gets.

[SSF1991]

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Never suggested they ahven't.

Except you did:

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That's their own fault. kek. Ya'll can't go after them IDW folk for hype you yourselves created out of a shadowy unrecognizable shape! XD

So yeah. You said fans created the hype. Not IDW.

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The fact that some folks ended up speculating it to be Sally is more a coincidence

It's not a "coincidence". Again, there is a legitimate case that people have for coming to this interpretation. I keep saying this, but you keep dismissing these interpretations as if people saying it just because.

 

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No, that's just you assuming the worst from me I'm afraid.

You keep calling their interpretations "coincidence" and "people seeing what they want to see". That's not an assumption. That's a conclusion I drew from things you bluntly said.

 

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I never even claimed it's not Sally,

From the same exact post I linked earlier:
 

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Besides, I'm not seeing it. My first thought was that it's a lamb. :U

Maybe to someone who wants Sally back. For me and others, it's a new character. That's all. No big weight to it or nothing.

So, again, you claim you didn't say something, but here's a post where you did. And even then, in the same post I'm replying to you on, you imply it's not Sally:

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And we don't even know if this character even resembles Sally past a shadowy silhouette.

You seem to have this assumption that everyone who thinks it's Sally has a confirmation bias of some kind. Why? There have even been people that don't like Sally that think there's a similarity to her.

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Remember how I specified POST SGW earlier. Because if I had to compare that silhouette to any incarnation of Sally, that's the only one that comes to mind for me, and even then, I'm not really seeing it.

And that's fine. You're not the only person that thinks it wasn't Sally. And I did say that there's a legitimate case for it to not be Sally as well. But, again, both sides have legitimate cases. I'm just acknowledging that both sides have a point. A legitimate point. That's all.

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My point was never that the Sally was supposedly obscure to the fanbase, but that from my perspective, the best means of knowing that look of hers is from the Archie comics run, especially those specific proportions. And again, that's just my perspective.

But by stating that people would only know what she looks like from reading comics, you're implying that her looks are obscure because only some people would recognize her.

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There's really no  one objective way to look at this, so don't be surprised if just as many people don't see where the others are coming from.

There's a big difference between "I dont see where people are coming from" and "I think the other side are just seeing what they want to see". One is an acknowledgement that not everyone will agree with you, and the other is a conclusion that came from absolutely nowhere.

 

40 minutes ago, Ini Miney Jovahexeon said:

I'd ask that you not try and misconstrue my original points as such then, please.

Then don't call Sally interpretations "coincidences" and "people seeing what they want to see". And definitely don't blame people for being hyped by a company that is creating it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

26 minutes ago, Kellan said:

Ooh, let me try. I’m going to assume (possibly incorrectly), that you liked Sonic Heroes, based on how much you like Charmy Bee. Imagine if they announced a sequel to Heroes, but they only confirmed that Teams Sonic, Rose, and Dark would be returning. And any time someone asked about the Chaotix, they were only given nothing answers, which lasted for months. And then they made a big deal about revealing the next team, and the silhouette seems to intentionally resemble the Chaotix.

Now, wouldn’t you feel misled if it wasn’t?

This comparison...does not work on a plethora of reasons. Many of which have already been mentioned.

First off, the Chaotix have much specific figures and whatnot to them, especially with them being some of the more uniquely shaped of characters. If the silhouettes matched up with them, that'd be a stronger case to say it's just them from the get go.

Sally's shape on the other hand, overlaps with characters to the point where that could be even Tiara Bobwinski for all we know. Hence why many people aren't seeing what others are seeing and it's highly doubtful this is all some ploy to tease or mislead fans intentionally as opposed to just naturally hyping up a new character.

[BlossomHaze]

5 hours ago, Polkadi said:

I see people saying why cancel the Sonic the Hedgehog Archie comics, only to do what looks like the same with with IDW?

Well, there was nothing wrong with the comic itself. It was just working with Archie that was so utterly painful. The company is obviously incompetent, writers are coming out of the woodwork to sue to claim their work, so much wild bullshit happened because Sega wasn't tight enough, and it obviously wasn't working as well as they wanted it to.

So this is more the case of moving to a more competent comic book company, and starting anew. They can make a new Sonic comic formula, or stick to the old, it's really just a case of "get me away from that company please."

In a way, it's another reboot of the Archie comics, without any of the Archie.

As much as I loved the Archie comics, I'd say this is a good summary of how I feel about it, too. I wasn't too happy with the older writers coming out to sue to claim their work forcing Archie staff to reboot the series in a sense (though, I do understand why people sued; contracts are important!), but fresh starts aren't always a bad thing and as I've already expressed before I'm incredibly excited to see where this goes, especially with Ian at the helm. I hope to have a portfolio put together to get myself an art job in the Sonic comic industry, too, haha.