Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Shaddy Zaphod]

18 minutes ago, Ini Miney Jovahexeon said:

This comparison...does not work on a plethora of reasons. Many of which have already been mentioned.

First off, the Chaotix have much specific figures and whatnot to them, especially with them being some of the more uniquely shaped of characters. If the silhouettes matched up with them, that'd be a stronger case to say it's just them from the get go.

Sally's shape on the other hand, overlaps with characters to the point where that could be even Tiara Bobwinski for all we know. Hence why many people aren't seeing what others are seeing and it's highly doubtful this is all some ploy to tease or mislead fans intentionally as opposed to just naturally hyping up a new character.

But the thing is, enough people believe it looks like Sally that it's not a crack theory or anything, and it's probably enough that the people producing the comics should be able to see that putting a similar version of what is easily the most recognized instance of that design (regardless of whether it's similar to any other characters) under a silhouette and making everyone talk about who it is might be misleading. I don't think most of anyone actually believes they're being fucked with, but it totally feels that way because of the level of obliviousness it would take for something like this to happen doesn't line up with what we know about the people actually making these comics. I mean, Ian Flynn loves Sally to the point where he was criticized for it during his run. Does that seem like the kind of guy to write and (probably) help design a similar-looking but separate character and not even notice?

[SSF1991]

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

I mean, Ian Flynn loves Sally to the point where he was criticized for it during his run. Does that seem like the kind of guy to write and (probably) help design a similar-looking but separate character and not even notice?

That's a good point. I completely forgot about the fact that Ian Flynn, who's directing IDW Sonic, really loves the Freedom Fighters and has defended them in the past. Didn't he even ask/pressure SEGA to keep the Freedom Fighters in post-reboot Archie Sonic?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

He was the only reason they did, in fact. I would not be surprised in the slightest if this new character is just Zally Eicorn. I would be annoyed though, since if they're gonna do that I'd at least prefer they use a more unique design.

[KoDaiko]

Tbh I didn’t think it was Sally when I initially saw the silhouette. I was worried it was, but I hoped it was a new character. So every time the teaser updated I had 90% of me trying to imagine what kind of original mobian it will be, and 10% of me trying to identify Sally-like traits (which is silly because even if they shared traits, it could've been pure coincidence). The two teasers I didn't think it was Sally though I did consider the possibility. It was after people kept saying it was Sally that I started to think so. If I wasn’t gradually influenced to think so, the newest teaser wouldn’t have looked like Sally for me.

What I'm trying to say is, you can say "it's obviously Sally!" or "nah it's not" or "now you say, it may look like Sally" and all is equally correct.

31 minutes ago, Korke said:

It just makes no sense they would make this "who is that pokémon" game when said pokémon doesn't even exist yet.

Haven't Nintendo postsed teasers of new starters/Pokemons when a new game comes out? 

[Diogenes]

6 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

I mean, Ian Flynn loves Sally to the point where he was criticized for it during his run. Does that seem like the kind of guy to write and (probably) help design a similar-looking but separate character and not even notice?

There is so much detail lost in this teaser that we can hardly tell anything about what the character looks like. Even the one part with some actual visible detail, we haven't even come to an agreement over whether it's a hand or a tail or something else entirely. What have we got that makes this character look like Sally that isn't so generic it couldn't be found on a hundred other characters?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

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Never suggested they ahven't.

Except you did:

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That's their own fault. kek. Ya'll can't go after them IDW folk for hype you yourselves created out of a shadowy unrecognizable shape! XD

So yeah. You said fans created the hype. Not IDW.

Yes, and I was referring to the negative hype they created and are bound to thinking which has needlessly overcomplicated things.

IDW just sought up to generate the hype that naturally comes from a new character. No conspiracy or ploy to exploit a Sally-look-a-like.

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

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The fact that some folks ended up speculating it to be Sally is more a coincidence

It's not a "coincidence". Again, there is a legitimate case that people have for coming to this interpretation. I keep saying this, but you keep dismissing these interpretations as if people saying it just because.

You're mis-comprehending me. Nowhere in there do I state the logic behind what those particular folk see, as illegitimate, but just that it's more of coincidence that the character garnered the suspicions of being a Sally-look-alike from a silhouette, as opposed to it being intentionally employed in and of itself jst get people going back and forth on whether or not it's Sally. Not a coincidence that some fans came to that conclusion.

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

You keep calling their interpretations "coincidence" and "people seeing what they want to see".

As stated before, it wasn't their interpretations I was marking directly as "coincidence". As for "seeing what they want to see". Yeah, that's very plausibly the case. I mean, it might be Sally, but a lot of the takes read off as some real big stretches to the imagination.

I mean, even as someone who's read Archie Sonic, I still am not seeing the resemblance.

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

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I never even claimed it's not Sally,

From the same exact post I linked earlier:

Yeah, I never claimed such. "Claimed" implies I was stating it for a fact. I was just laying out my cards on the scenario on offering debate and potential reasons for why it's probably not Sally. I never said outright then and there that it's absolutely not her. It could be her, but my argument was in favor of the notion it's not. Not the certainty that it's not her and telling the faction that thinks it's her that they're wrong.

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

And even then, in the same post I'm replying to you on, you imply it's not Sally:

Because it might not be Sally. Plain and simple. There is a chance to that and I was debating in favor that there's a possibility it's not. Nothing harmful to the level you're suggesting, I'm afraid.

 

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

You seem to have this assumption that everyone who thinks it's Sally has a confirmation bias of some kind. Why? There have even been people that don't like Sally that think there's a similarity to her.

Uh, whether or not one likes Sally has nothing to do with it if we're talking about confirmation bias here, so I have no idea what you're even on about.

 

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

And that's fine. You're not the only person that thinks it wasn't Sally. And I did say that there's a legitimate case for it to not be Sally as well. But, again, both sides have legitimate cases. I'm just acknowledging that both sides have a point. A legitimate point. That's all.

Then you're terribly mistaken if you thought I was saying that anyone thinking it was Sally wasn't legit. Since I state multiple times that it could very well be her. Look before you leap on that one Don.

 

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

But by stating that people would only know what she looks like from reading comics, you're implying that her looks are obscure because only some people would recognize her.

You've got it wrong again Don. I said that the silhouette's body shape and structure only really resembles that of her POST SGW style, as opposed to her other versions' proportions. I never said nor implied people only know what she looks like from the comics, but that coming to the conclusion that it is Sally, suggests ones seen her POST SGW version off the Archie Comics opposed to her designs in other media.

 

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

There's a big difference between "I dont see where people are coming from" and "I think the other side are just seeing what they want to see". One is an acknowledgement that not everyone will agree with you, and the other is a conclusion that came from absolutely nowhere.

The problem with this logic is that it runs off the idea that there are only two sides to this whole ordeal when that's quite far from the truth. There are some fans who are more reasonable than others in this matter. Trust me. It's not how you think it is in this case. I'm not lambasting the more reasonable side if that's your worry.

 

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

Then don't call Sally interpretations "coincidences"

Which I didn't.

 

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

"people seeing what they want to see"

Of those, there are certainly cases, but don't think that applies to everyone who's in favor it being Sally. That's what likely tripped you up there.

 

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

And definitely don't blame people for being hyped by a company that is creating it.

The whole getting prematurely mad at company before the reveal is even conducted is always going to be a flawed course of logical action to me.

And speaking of which, I think this whole debate and misunderstanding on my stance, based off a new character who is or isn't Sally. Doesn't even look like her to quite a few, has gotten out of hand to say the least.

In fact, it's become borderline hounding over this whole matter. And you really did not need to try and drag my name through the mud over this.

I'm getting some shut eye.

[DabigRG]

So, how about that Shade?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

32 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

There is so much detail lost in this teaser that we can hardly tell anything about what the character looks like. Even the one part with some actual visible detail, we haven't even come to an agreement over whether it's a hand or a tail or something else entirely. What have we got that makes this character look like Sally that isn't so generic it couldn't be found on a hundred other characters?

You left out the other important part of what I said

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it's probably enough that the people producing the comics should be able to see that putting a similar version of what is easily the most recognized instance of that design (regardless of whether it's similar to any other characters) under a silhouette and making everyone talk about who it is might be misleading.

Whether it "could be found on a hundred other characters" (which is already debatable) isn't even relevant because of who the people producing these things are, the fact that they know how people feel about these characters and the dearth of information regarding their presence in this book, and the fact that Sally is easily the progenitor of her own design. I certainly don't know of any other characters with that shape of hair and ears before her at least, and even if there are any, she's still easily more popular and recognized than any others you could list regardless, so they still should have known better. If it's really so "generic", then they're still at fault for creating a "generic" design, especially one that was spawned from such a hotly-debated character. 

[Diogenes]

You're taking it as a given that the silhouette looks like Sally and I really don't agree with that. It's kind of like Sally if you squint and you imagine she's been redesigned a bit, but it's not at all this obvious blunder it's being made out to be.

The ears in the silhouette don't even look like Sally's, anyway. Her ears are triangular, usually pretty similar to Sonic's, the silhouette's are more rounded.

[SSF1991]

1 hour ago, Ini Miney Jovahexeon said:

And speaking of which, I think this whole debate and misunderstanding on my stance, based off a new character who is or isn't Sally. Doesn't even look like her to quite a few, has gotten out of hand to say the least.

I'm getting some shut eye.

I'm not going to count the amount of times you're still claiming you didn't say things that you clearly said, you claiming things you did say but didn't (i.e. "I totally said it could be Sally"), the continuation of assumptions and conclusions drawn from nothing, and saying I should "look before I leap" when I've been linking to your posts with your words this whole time, bolding exactly what you claim you didn't say when you did, word for word. It's 12:30am where I'm at and I'm too tired to care at this point. This debate has gone on long enough anyway, and I'm sure the mods and other people in this thread are tired of me making giant walls of quote posts. lol

It got out of hand because you keep sending me mixed messages, still bringing up subjects that have nothing to do with my point, and lying. Every time you claim you're not "lambasting the other side", you sneak in bits like this then claim you're innocent when it is brought up to you. You call it a "misunderstanding on my stance", when your stance is all over the place. You tell me one thing, then when I bring this to your attention, you tell me something different. You can't just make excuses or go into denial by saying things like "to claim something means I'm saying something for a fact", "I'm just offering scenerios" or "what I meant is" after being so blunt, then accuse me of misunderstandings and not "looking before I'm leaping". If this were really your reasons for this, then it would've been phrased to imply as such. You wouldn't have been so blunt about it. So because of that, the debate got nowhere.

I don't know what you were expecting to go with this, but see what I bolded? I wanted to at least acknowledge that because it really sums up the point I have been making. Did you really need to include that? It just makes your "character who is or isn't Sally" acknowledgement half-assed because, once again, you're giving more credit to the people who agree with you that it isn't Sally, something you have been doing this whole debate. Why? Because there was no acknowledgement of those who do think it looks like her, which is even more than "quite a few". When you keep mentioning only one side of the debate, then what do you expect me to believe? You keep claiming otherwise (and, for the record, you stating you did/didn't do this is a claim), but then you sneak in things like this and then accuse me of misunderstanding your stance.

If you really do feel the way you do about your points, then I highly recommend you phrase them better. Because then people will understand where you come from with more clarity, and you don't need to spend a whole debate on a defensive end having explaining what you said because people interpreted it differently. It is something I need to work on as well, to be honest. Phrasing is very important. lol

Nevertheless, I'm tired of this debate too. It isn't getting anywhere. And even what I just told you in this post is just me repeating myself. So I agree about putting it to an end.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

10 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

You're taking it as a given that the silhouette looks like Sally and I really don't agree with that. It's kind of like Sally if you squint and you imagine she's been redesigned a bit, but it's not at all this obvious blunder it's being made out to be.

The ears in the silhouette don't even look like Sally's, anyway. Her ears are triangular, usually pretty similar to Sonic's, the silhouette's are more rounded.

I mean...not really? They're not that different. Either way, my point isn't that it is exactly the same as Sally, it's that if it's not, then it still looks way too fucking much like her for this to be a coincidence. If it was really so obviously different from Sally, then nobody would think it was her in the first place.

[Swing]

6 hours ago, DabigRG said:

So, how about that Shade?

Do people really care about her and Sonic Chronicles? 

[DabigRG]

Just now, Swing said:

Do people really about her and Sonic Chronicles? 

Yes, I'm sure people really about her and Sonic Chronicles.

[Swing]

Just now, DabigRG said:

Yes, I'm sure people really about her and Sonic Chronicles.

Nah... she is one of the most forgettable characters Sega owns. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

That really means nothing for the comics, though. I mean these things made Silver one of my favorite characters, and he pretty much always sucks in the games.

Actually, does he suck in Rivals? I never had a PSP so I can't know for sure.

[MetalSkulkBane]

1 minute ago, Swing said:

Do people really about her and Sonic Chronicles? 

"care"? That's the word you missed, right?

We're Sonic fandom, we have a stupid obsession with every obscure character.

With that said she can never come back (legal reasons), so her popularity simply can't grow. She's modern Ray the Flying Squirrel, and even he can be put in comic and stuff.

With that said, I found her character very dull. She was walking exposition with an arc as unpredictable as sunrise in the morning.

1 minute ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

That really means nothing for the comics, though. I mean these things made Silver one of my favorite characters, and he pretty much always sucks in the games.

Actually, does he suck in Rivals? I never had a PSP so I don't know for sure.

I'm sure you can check cutscenes on youtube.

But he's fine in those games. Yes, he gets into a fight with others, but due to nature of the plot, everyone does.

[DabigRG]

19 minutes ago, Swing said:

Nah... she is one of the most forgettable characters Ken Penders owns. 

Is she? I didn't get through much of a Chronicles playthrough years ago, so I have zero context outside of summaries and TV Tropes.

16 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

That really means nothing for the comics, though. I mean these things made Silver one of my favorite characters, and he pretty much always sucks in the games.

Actually, does he suck in Rivals? I never had a PSP so I can't know for sure.

Yeah, I guess. Though I heard he's a massive dickwad at times.

Silver: Out of my way.

Sonic: Hey, Silver. Long time no see! 

Silver: I said MOVE!

[Sonictrainer]

11 hours ago, Mister X said:

 

For a minute, I thought that Penguinator was designed with hair before I realized it was Tails

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I think if SEGA wanted to use Shade they actually still could, it would just open all the legal stuff back up again. The thing is, SEGA could very easily and quickly solve it, because they're a big company with lots of money and lawyers, and more competent in their legal practices than Archie. They just don't care enough to bother.

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

That really means nothing for the comics, though. I mean these things made Silver one of my favorite characters, and he pretty much always sucks in the games.

Actually, does he suck in Rivals? I never had a PSP so I can't know for sure.

He's a jerk

[BlueSky]

7 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

And of course, right after I make that post IDW comes out with another teaser of that character. And it looks much more like Sally than originally thought.

God dammit. lol

Maybe they heard you and decided to make some last-minute changes.

Though if they're just trolling I take it as I don't matter to them in any way.

Thus prolly my money won't either.

6 hours ago, Red said:

What if it's this Sally?

Okay for me, any Sally would be a step towards the right way.

Unless they mess the core personality totally, which I hope doesn't happen since Mr. Flynn.

 

And about that teaser picture...

This one thing baffles me, how anyone could see this in a romantic light? There's more between Sonic and the robots at the background than anywhere else.

[Marcello]

Ah, yes, Sally Acorn with her big bushy tail and furry hands. Just as I remember her.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

So, in about six hours they're going to reveal a new character. It's probably the one behind the silhouette, but I'm also totally willing to believe it might be someone else because fuck it, they might as well go the whole nine yards with pissing us off.

I think the worst thing about all this is that I would enjoy the comic more if they'd just left all this silent. Telling us like this, letting massive arguments erupt (I mean, more than they would have otherwise) is just going to sour opinions even though it has basically nothing to do with the book.

I'll say: I hope it's Sally, because I like Antoine, Bunnie and Nicole. It won't be the end of the world if it isn't Sally. It'll still be a good comic, but I'm still not going to be happy with the way they handled the reveal of whoever it is. 

I'm gonna get some sleep.

[Sega DogTagz]

2 hours ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

I think if SEGA wanted to use Shade they actually still could, it would just open all the legal stuff back up again. The thing is, SEGA could very easily and quickly solve it, because they're a big company with lots of money and lawyers, and more competent in their legal practices than Archie. They just don't care enough to bother.

Eh, its not simple. Penders can of worms legal issues aside - you also have to consider the ownership angle.

Bioware, shortly after making Chronicles was brought out by a rival publishing company, EA. Logic would dictate that all the creative licenses that Bioware held (which would include Shade) would also now in fact be owned by EA.

So in the end, Shade is stuck in a weird limbo where her creators cannot use her for lack of the Sonic license, and Sega won't touch her for fear of having to pay legit royalties to the competition. Its a lose-lose-lose situation. It has nothing to do with with the ability to go out there and make it happen, there just isn't enough of a reason to pour in the resources necessary to bring her back. There's no way the return on investment would be worth it. You'd have to hire lawyers to sort everything out, shoot down counterattacks from penders (again) and then even after all that you are still pushing a pile of cash toward Bioware once all is said and done. Thats a lot for a one-shot character that appeared in a game that almost no-body thought was good.

[BlueSky]

Okay, this is a promise; IFF it's Sally, I'll keep my hopes up for others maybe appearing too, AND buy the damn thing.

And gee, if people don't have a schema of Sally in their heads, of course they can't see Sally in any picture.

If it isn't Sally, I'm starting to feel more and more as if Sonic franchise has entered into some kind of purging state where the wrong kind of fans are being smoked out for ruining the mood. Given all this trolling of course.